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PowerMac Specs...
- Thread starter arn
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the land of the dual
as a new owner of a dual 1GHz (no I don't care too much about the price drop, I got the Crystal Clear rebate), I have quickly become a believer in the full-time multi-tasking dual-processing power that lives under there.
you people speak of "nominal" and "modest" speed bumps. we're talking a 200+ Mhz increase rumored to be released. now, all you spreadsheet and webbrowser speed freaks won't notice anything. big deal.
but real processor-intensive stuff will show the difference. 20% increase on an hour render is productive.
some of you people are ridiculous cranks!
as a new owner of a dual 1GHz (no I don't care too much about the price drop, I got the Crystal Clear rebate), I have quickly become a believer in the full-time multi-tasking dual-processing power that lives under there.
you people speak of "nominal" and "modest" speed bumps. we're talking a 200+ Mhz increase rumored to be released. now, all you spreadsheet and webbrowser speed freaks won't notice anything. big deal.
but real processor-intensive stuff will show the difference. 20% increase on an hour render is productive.
some of you people are ridiculous cranks!
its a minor speed bump because its too late
You know, at this point, even if the mid level was dual 1.4 or 1.5, I wouldn't bite, because I expect something even better 6 months from now (The only downside then would be that something announced in SF would boot ONLY in OS X)
And you probably have to have at least one iteration with a new motherboard and old CPUs, to iron out kinks. When G4s were first announced, Yikes was not much more than a Blue and White with a G4 added. In this case, you have a better mobo, hopefully, with whatever **** for Chips you can grub up. You need at least one generation with the older Mobo architecture, as a bridge- it seems to have been that way with PBs, iBooks, and iMacs so far.
You know, at this point, even if the mid level was dual 1.4 or 1.5, I wouldn't bite, because I expect something even better 6 months from now (The only downside then would be that something announced in SF would boot ONLY in OS X)
And you probably have to have at least one iteration with a new motherboard and old CPUs, to iron out kinks. When G4s were first announced, Yikes was not much more than a Blue and White with a G4 added. In this case, you have a better mobo, hopefully, with whatever **** for Chips you can grub up. You need at least one generation with the older Mobo architecture, as a bridge- it seems to have been that way with PBs, iBooks, and iMacs so far.
just the beginning
indeed. as I've predicted, they won't go whole hog until G5s that won't boot in 9, take advantage of DDR and FSB jumps and a new case.
market doesn't truly demand that now (tho many people on here do).
let's face it: sales are gonna be down for awhile. no matter what's released.
indeed. as I've predicted, they won't go whole hog until G5s that won't boot in 9, take advantage of DDR and FSB jumps and a new case.
market doesn't truly demand that now (tho many people on here do).
let's face it: sales are gonna be down for awhile. no matter what's released.
Books???
this new line-up sounds good (not great) but what is the story with the powerbooks??? are there no upgrades planned for them as well???
this new line-up sounds good (not great) but what is the story with the powerbooks??? are there no upgrades planned for them as well???
Re: just the beginning
err market does demand it NOW! Intel is releasing 3ghz PIVs and AMD is releasing 64bit 2ghz hammers(vapor as of yet) now we all know the new 2ghz Power4s are NOT vapor or else IBM would have never announced them
the G5s are vapor heh
Anyways, these systems are really nice, duals across the line, and heh, i could now get a low end mac, and in reality have on speed demon, hehehehehehe. I wonder how VPC will run on the Dual 1.25ghz computers with X.2 and if connectix got off there lazy asses and starting using some more HLE.
you know why Graphics card performance is so slow under VPC???
because Connectix decided to emulate the video card because its "more compatible" err bull **** connectix, sure it is faster, but when writing an emulator, especially one emulating Fast computers not just simple little 6502s or z80s, Interpretation would be the WORST thing you could possibly do, what Connectix needs is to start using some High Level Emulation in there emulator. heh, at least there using a dynamic recompiling core for there x86 emulation. If they were using an interpreter than VPC would be more dead dog slow...... but... in order to increase video performance, connectix needs to utilize the video card to actually do the drawing. Thats called HLE where instead of actually emulating the video card through the CPU(like they do in this case, a S3 Virge i believe), you could just use the Macs video card as if it was the PCs video card... err Connectix!!!!!!! and BTW, i know a thing or too about emulation so i know what im talking about. http://pocketsx.ngemu.com
and HAHAHAHAHAHA to my 31337 post before heh
err market does demand it NOW! Intel is releasing 3ghz PIVs and AMD is releasing 64bit 2ghz hammers(vapor as of yet) now we all know the new 2ghz Power4s are NOT vapor or else IBM would have never announced them
the G5s are vapor hehAnyways, these systems are really nice, duals across the line, and heh, i could now get a low end mac, and in reality have on speed demon, hehehehehehe. I wonder how VPC will run on the Dual 1.25ghz computers with X.2 and if connectix got off there lazy asses and starting using some more HLE.
you know why Graphics card performance is so slow under VPC???
because Connectix decided to emulate the video card because its "more compatible" err bull **** connectix, sure it is faster, but when writing an emulator, especially one emulating Fast computers not just simple little 6502s or z80s, Interpretation would be the WORST thing you could possibly do, what Connectix needs is to start using some High Level Emulation in there emulator. heh, at least there using a dynamic recompiling core for there x86 emulation. If they were using an interpreter than VPC would be more dead dog slow...... but... in order to increase video performance, connectix needs to utilize the video card to actually do the drawing. Thats called HLE where instead of actually emulating the video card through the CPU(like they do in this case, a S3 Virge i believe), you could just use the Macs video card as if it was the PCs video card... err Connectix!!!!!!! and BTW, i know a thing or too about emulation so i know what im talking about. http://pocketsx.ngemu.com
and HAHAHAHAHAHA to my 31337 post before heh
Re: Re: just the beginning
wow. that does sound fast. I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't know or care squat about the Windows world. I know they're looking for 'switchers,' but the campaign at present is really OS-centered--that is: that Macs work better (regardless of speed).
so yeah, I guess when I talk market I mean current Mac users.
Originally posted by jadam
err market does demand it NOW! Intel is releasing 3ghz PIVs and AMD is releasing 64bit 2ghz hammers(vapor as of yet) now we all know the new 2ghz Power4s are NOT vapor or else IBM would have never announced them
wow. that does sound fast. I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't know or care squat about the Windows world. I know they're looking for 'switchers,' but the campaign at present is really OS-centered--that is: that Macs work better (regardless of speed).
so yeah, I guess when I talk market I mean current Mac users.
Originally posted by jadam
err market does demand it NOW! Intel is releasing 3ghz PIVs and AMD is releasing 64bit 2ghz hammers(vapor as of yet) now we all know the new 2ghz Power4s are NOT vapor or else IBM would have never announced them
Looking at dell.com, ibm.com and gateway.com, I fail to see a machine with a 3 Ghz P4. Now, I know they are coming, and to some, that matters.
To me, though, it doesn't matter. A P4 doesn't run OS X. It doesn't have iPhoto. And my little 700mhz iBook is more than fast enough for all the apps I use on it, positively screaming compared to my old Lombard. And it has the added advantage of not crashing into a flaming pile of $&!^ every hour on the hour.
i use a mac to make a living. the new line up is too little too late. they should have been introducing this stuff MANY months ago.
what stinks is that i'm stuck with it. not sure at this point if the hardware is behind simply because apple shot its collective wad on FINALLY fixing the new OS, or if they've been pimped out far too long by motorola.
whatever the case, as much as i love apple...and am bound to them for as long as there's really no suitable or classy alternative...this sucks. i'm a shareholder and a die hard user. lately it seems like i'm getting kicked in the teeth on both accounts.
explain it to me if i'm wrong, but i don't see how anyone other than a casual or new user would be excited about any of the products set for release tomorrow. macs are THE computers of the creative class...and i don't think most of us are looking for machines that run Word or VPC better.
real or not, the specs release on that "other" site earlier today are more along the lines of what we should be expecting from a company that claims to think different.
here's an idea...how 'bout thinking different and suprising your loyal user base for a change instead of delivering the same old lack luster, hold-you- over-until-something-better-comes-along crap.
what stinks is that i'm stuck with it. not sure at this point if the hardware is behind simply because apple shot its collective wad on FINALLY fixing the new OS, or if they've been pimped out far too long by motorola.
whatever the case, as much as i love apple...and am bound to them for as long as there's really no suitable or classy alternative...this sucks. i'm a shareholder and a die hard user. lately it seems like i'm getting kicked in the teeth on both accounts.
explain it to me if i'm wrong, but i don't see how anyone other than a casual or new user would be excited about any of the products set for release tomorrow. macs are THE computers of the creative class...and i don't think most of us are looking for machines that run Word or VPC better.
real or not, the specs release on that "other" site earlier today are more along the lines of what we should be expecting from a company that claims to think different.
here's an idea...how 'bout thinking different and suprising your loyal user base for a change instead of delivering the same old lack luster, hold-you- over-until-something-better-comes-along crap.
I'm not expecting a g5 in January, but I would hope for something slightly better in some small way(besides I have other rea$ons for not buying now). Are you saying we will not see a speed bump on the speed bump, because of what MIGHT be announced tomorrow? That MWSF, if it were to have any hardware announcements, would be doing the Books rather than the desks?
I expect something around May of next year. Don't know why, but the expos are merely bad timing as far as the buying seasons go.
Or are you saying that a powermac change this week would be it for a year? Or a year and a half?
Wait to 2003
Man, I am waiting til 2003 to buy a new PowerMac. I am not impressed. Steve's new PowerMacs are just for folks whom just had their PowerMac stolen or fried in a storm
Peter
Man, I am waiting til 2003 to buy a new PowerMac. I am not impressed. Steve's new PowerMacs are just for folks whom just had their PowerMac stolen or fried in a storm
Peter
People,
Dual 1.25 Ghz is not that bad. In fact, if it is "only" a bump to 1.25 Ghz, Apple would be practically right on track w/ Andy Groves prediction of computer speeds doubling every 18 mos. Since Motorola finally pushed beyond the 500 mhz barrier they were stuck at for almost 2 years, Apple has been bumping speeds by about 25% every 6 mos. So....
Just do the math:
July 2001 - dual 800 mhz
x 1.25 =
Jan 2002 - dual 1000 mhz
x 1.25 =
Aug 2002 - dual 1250 mhz
x 1.25 =
Feb 2003 - dual 1562 mhz ???**
1562 mhz is 1.95x 800 mhz - practically 2x increase in processor speed in 18 months.
**Assuming Apple's next speed bump is also another 25% increase.
I think people are getting too panicky over the whole speed issue. Yes, intel more than doubles their processor speeds every18 mos. However, due to short pipelines and significantly higher # of stages and other tricks done to get those speeds, the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of their chips are not increased by the same percentage. IOW, a 2.4 Ghz pentium is NOT 2x faster than a 1.2 Ghz pentium, but probably more like 2x faster than an 800 mhz pentium.
That's why AMD's 1.7 Ghz chips can still outperfrom Intel's 2.4 Ghz chips.
I've been creeping along on my beige G3/233 overclocked to 292 mhz for almost 5 years now. Other than basic word processing, accounting and internet stuff, I do a lot of artwork in photoshop. Yes, my beige G3 is slow, but I am still able to manipulate large 60MB+ images in a reasonable amount of time on my 5 year old computer with only 384MB of RAM w/ a hard drive hooked up to an ATA/33 interface (that's right, 33, NOT 133!)
I've wanted to upgrade since last January and, like the rest of you, were very disappointed that those rumored 1.6 Ghz G5s weren't released. I almost bought the dual 1 Ghz, but decided to hold out for stuff like DDR and faster FSB, ATA100.
Then, last month, I just got tired of waiting and tired of the noise my G3 tower was putting out and bought a 800 mhz TiBook with Cinema Display. I'm THRILLED with my new purchase. This computer FLIES with 10.1.5 and is even faster with the 6115C build of 10.2 I'm running on it now.
The ironic thing about all this is, it's a blessing in disguise that Wintel users are able to upgrade to significantly faster rated CPUs every 6 mos because, the truth is, they *NEED TO* upgrade their machines every 6 mos to 24 mos at the latest to run all the latest software and maintain useability of their systems. Whereas, for Apple owners such as myself, it is an *OPTION* to upgrade to a new computer - even after 5 years!
Why are there SOOO many Mac users, such as myself, that are able to continually complain and put off buying a new computer when they have been ready to do so for a very long time? Simply, BECAUSE WE CAN! All of our old systems still WORK for us, so, we bitch and whine and put off our purchase for the next 6 mos, then another 6 mos... all the while hoping to hit that magical exponential increase in power. Wintel users do not have this LUXURY.
If you are like myself, when Apple announces their new machines tomorrow, or next week or month, I have 3 words for you...
JUST DO IT
Yosh
Dual 1.25 Ghz is not that bad. In fact, if it is "only" a bump to 1.25 Ghz, Apple would be practically right on track w/ Andy Groves prediction of computer speeds doubling every 18 mos. Since Motorola finally pushed beyond the 500 mhz barrier they were stuck at for almost 2 years, Apple has been bumping speeds by about 25% every 6 mos. So....
Just do the math:
July 2001 - dual 800 mhz
x 1.25 =
Jan 2002 - dual 1000 mhz
x 1.25 =
Aug 2002 - dual 1250 mhz
x 1.25 =
Feb 2003 - dual 1562 mhz ???**
1562 mhz is 1.95x 800 mhz - practically 2x increase in processor speed in 18 months.
**Assuming Apple's next speed bump is also another 25% increase.
I think people are getting too panicky over the whole speed issue. Yes, intel more than doubles their processor speeds every18 mos. However, due to short pipelines and significantly higher # of stages and other tricks done to get those speeds, the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of their chips are not increased by the same percentage. IOW, a 2.4 Ghz pentium is NOT 2x faster than a 1.2 Ghz pentium, but probably more like 2x faster than an 800 mhz pentium.
That's why AMD's 1.7 Ghz chips can still outperfrom Intel's 2.4 Ghz chips.
I've been creeping along on my beige G3/233 overclocked to 292 mhz for almost 5 years now. Other than basic word processing, accounting and internet stuff, I do a lot of artwork in photoshop. Yes, my beige G3 is slow, but I am still able to manipulate large 60MB+ images in a reasonable amount of time on my 5 year old computer with only 384MB of RAM w/ a hard drive hooked up to an ATA/33 interface (that's right, 33, NOT 133!)
I've wanted to upgrade since last January and, like the rest of you, were very disappointed that those rumored 1.6 Ghz G5s weren't released. I almost bought the dual 1 Ghz, but decided to hold out for stuff like DDR and faster FSB, ATA100.
Then, last month, I just got tired of waiting and tired of the noise my G3 tower was putting out and bought a 800 mhz TiBook with Cinema Display. I'm THRILLED with my new purchase. This computer FLIES with 10.1.5 and is even faster with the 6115C build of 10.2 I'm running on it now.
The ironic thing about all this is, it's a blessing in disguise that Wintel users are able to upgrade to significantly faster rated CPUs every 6 mos because, the truth is, they *NEED TO* upgrade their machines every 6 mos to 24 mos at the latest to run all the latest software and maintain useability of their systems. Whereas, for Apple owners such as myself, it is an *OPTION* to upgrade to a new computer - even after 5 years!
Why are there SOOO many Mac users, such as myself, that are able to continually complain and put off buying a new computer when they have been ready to do so for a very long time? Simply, BECAUSE WE CAN! All of our old systems still WORK for us, so, we bitch and whine and put off our purchase for the next 6 mos, then another 6 mos... all the while hoping to hit that magical exponential increase in power. Wintel users do not have this LUXURY.
If you are like myself, when Apple announces their new machines tomorrow, or next week or month, I have 3 words for you...
JUST DO IT
Yosh
Well...
I for one, dont really have a choice, like Yosh, I've been on a old Beige for 4.5 Years, and the time has come to put poor Bessie away (the name of my hard drive, 6 GB was big then..).
So, basically, whatever Apple puts out tomorrow, I'm obligated to buy, so I just hope it's decent.
I for one, dont really have a choice, like Yosh, I've been on a old Beige for 4.5 Years, and the time has come to put poor Bessie away (the name of my hard drive, 6 GB was big then..).
So, basically, whatever Apple puts out tomorrow, I'm obligated to buy, so I just hope it's decent.
Aloha,
Please bear with me with these trivial questions, (I am new to Mac)...
How will we know what speed the front side bus is and if it takes advantage of the DDR ram??
and...
How will we know if it boots in OS9 ?? Not OS9 with the yellow wrapper (or whatever you call it) ??
I need a new system to run my Protools rig so any good advice will get you a free guided tour of the North Shore of Oahu..
Mahalo,
Mark
Please bear with me with these trivial questions, (I am new to Mac)...
How will we know what speed the front side bus is and if it takes advantage of the DDR ram??
and...
How will we know if it boots in OS9 ?? Not OS9 with the yellow wrapper (or whatever you call it) ??
I need a new system to run my Protools rig so any good advice will get you a free guided tour of the North Shore of Oahu..
Mahalo,
Mark
Relax
Relax people!!!
First, these are just rumors.
Second, Whatever comes out will be much better overall preformance.
Third, be faithful........
Relax people!!!
First, these are just rumors.
Second, Whatever comes out will be much better overall preformance.
Third, be faithful........
Re: Re: just the beginning
Considering that IBM announced 1 GHz G3s a while back and apparently, the best they've shipped is the 700 for desktop applications, I wouldn't put faith into a processor I haven't seen. It may be an offshoot of the Power4 line but it's still PowerPC and it's not likely ready.
As far as Connectix goes, I think they've been fighting compatibility issues which is funny since they control the hardware. Perhaps, if they followed Apple's example and coded all video as OpenGL with the Z coordinate as zero, VPC might be quite a bit faster. They might even be able to just support OpenGL-based games by calling OpenGL with the OpenGL call parameters from Windows.
They done some nice things like the drive journaling, but accelerated video would be nice.
Originally posted by jadam
err market does demand it NOW! Intel is releasing 3ghz PIVs and AMD is releasing 64bit 2ghz hammers(vapor as of yet) now we all know the new 2ghz Power4s are NOT vapor or else IBM would have never announced them
Anyways, these systems are really nice, duals across the line, and heh, i could now get a low end mac, and in reality have on speed demon, hehehehehehe. I wonder how VPC will run on the Dual 1.25ghz computers with X.2 and if connectix got off there lazy asses and starting using some more HLE.
you know why Graphics card performance is so slow under VPC???
because Connectix decided to emulate the video card because its "more compatible" err bull **** connectix, sure it is faster, but when writing an emulator, especially one emulating Fast computers not just simple little 6502s or z80s, Interpretation would be the WORST thing you could possibly do, what Connectix needs is to start using some High Level Emulation in there emulator. heh, at least there using a dynamic recompiling core for there x86 emulation. If they were using an interpreter than VPC would be more dead dog slow...... but... in order to increase video performance, connectix needs to utilize the video card to actually do the drawing. Thats called HLE where instead of actually emulating the video card through the CPU(like they do in this case, a S3 Virge i believe), you could just use the Macs video card as if it was the PCs video card... err Connectix!!!!!!! and BTW, i know a thing or too about emulation so i know what im talking about. http://pocketsx.ngemu.com
and HAHAHAHAHAHA to my 31337 post before heh
Considering that IBM announced 1 GHz G3s a while back and apparently, the best they've shipped is the 700 for desktop applications, I wouldn't put faith into a processor I haven't seen. It may be an offshoot of the Power4 line but it's still PowerPC and it's not likely ready.
As far as Connectix goes, I think they've been fighting compatibility issues which is funny since they control the hardware. Perhaps, if they followed Apple's example and coded all video as OpenGL with the Z coordinate as zero, VPC might be quite a bit faster. They might even be able to just support OpenGL-based games by calling OpenGL with the OpenGL call parameters from Windows.
They done some nice things like the drive journaling, but accelerated video would be nice.
Maybe Jobs will pull one on us just like Gates pulled one while watching re-runs of Martha Stewert
just me two cents. I will be extremely disappointed if the "high end " is only 1.2Ghz. I am a huge user of MAYA.... and the fact that apple has OS X ( absolutely fantastic) and MAYA under the one roof i was fairly certain i would upgrade to the fastest or ultimate model. But currently i am disappointed the way MAYA runs under dual 1Ghz... i was allowed the loan of a college machine. i need to buy a new machine for college which is starting in mid september. i need to consider what platform will run MAYA best. Unfortunately in this sector of the creative market performance matters. I want these machines to be faster than what i am seeing on screen. Here's hoping.
Guys, I think the wait is over.
I just went to amazon.com and they post ALL powermacs as either discontinued or out of stock. So this, combined with all of the other e-sellers that are reported to be out of stock plus the suspicious comment that an apple sales rep made today at the local CompUSA make be seriously beleieve that tomorrow will be the day!
I'll get whatever the announce, finally, dude I'm getting a Mac!!
I just went to amazon.com and they post ALL powermacs as either discontinued or out of stock. So this, combined with all of the other e-sellers that are reported to be out of stock plus the suspicious comment that an apple sales rep made today at the local CompUSA make be seriously beleieve that tomorrow will be the day!
I'll get whatever the announce, finally, dude I'm getting a Mac!!