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That said, I don't think that Apple was wrong to give equal attention to battery life and portability. The number of people who truly need 32 gb of ram is probably over-represented here, and not indicative of Apple's overall user base.

Sometimes, niche markets are important. The solid gold iWatch "editions" were a niche market - too, but Apple understood that they fed a strategically important market - in that case, getting loads of celebs - the opinion-formers for airheads - to pose with their Watches.

With PCs, niche markets are important too, but the target "niche" is less good looking and well-groomed. Apple need a "power user" machine in their line-up that is going to attract geeks and programmers, because its those geeks that develop software for other Mac and iOS users, provide community support, advise people on computer purchases and generally keep the Mac ecosystem going. People won't buy Macs if there's no software or support. Microsoft can choose to produce only eye-wateringly expensive "Surface" products with consumer-grade specs, because there's a whole PC industry producing everything from cheap'n'cheerful entry-level PCs to refrigerator-size gaming rigs and workstations to keep the Windows platform alive.

What Apple have done is produced a new MacBook Pro that is more solid-gold Edition watch than power-user pleaser. Even if they sell, they're not going to sell to the sort of people that keep a PC platform alive.

Conventional wisdom in the past has been that if Apple ever produced the mythical XMac - an expandable mini-tower - that it would either be so laughably overpriced c.f. a PC mini-tower that nobody would buy it, or it would be so cheap and low-margin that it would decimate sales of MacBooks and iMacs and Apple wouldn't get the income it needs (unlike other PC makers) to develop and maintain Mac OS. That's been pretty sound logic in the past, but maybe it needs revisiting?

Today, when the mass market is for tablets and ultrabooks, would a Mac mini-tower really hurt the sales of laptops? It would be dirt cheap to develop - get Foxconn to knock out an Apple-branded MicroATX or Mini ITX motherboard sans PS/2 and VGA ports, make a nice mini-cheesegrater case (heck, you can buy them) and flog it for a nice premium: not going to sell huge quantities, but the Mac power users will already be shouting "Shut up and take my money!"

Another "courageous" possibility: an official "Hackintosh" program: $50/year subscription (or pay the Apple Dev subscription) for "Mac OS Enthusiast's Edition" with "not for resale" & "must already own a Mac" clause, a maintained list of officially supported chipsets and the guarantee that Apple aren't going to deliberately disable it at the next update. Are enough consumers going to download it, write it to a stick, configure it correctly to significantly hurt Mac sales (if they were already queueing up for that option, Hackintosh installation is already pretty much point'n'click)? Anybody unscrupulous enough to ignore the license, risk Apple's wrath and distribute Hackintoshes or Mac OS install sticks already can.

Less courageous: a quad i7 Mac Mini with dGPU (they've had that in the past and the world didn't end).

OK, those two ideas might fail closer scrutiny, but any losses Apple make would be offset by much better goodwill from the Mac enthusiast community which is going to pay off long-term. If the Apple board are capable of thinking beyond the next quarter. Basically, though, Apple need to stop confusing Macs with fashion accessories, and realise that they Need the Nerds.
 
Fair enough, that explains why consumer level stuff might not have the power it once did but to call something "Pro" IMO means that it's aimed at a professional market; which is often a market that can't be done on mobile.

The MacBook Pro was created to be a stronger MacBook, one that photo or video editors could easily work on. Now that name appears to just mean the price tag.

The MacBook Pro is still a professional machine. The specs are on the high-end, 16GB of RAM is plenty for most people, 512GB SSD is a lot (and you can buy more if you need it), GPU not the best but Apple has never put the best dGPU's in their laptops or iMacs. It's a highly capable machine for professional work.

Are the new MBP's capable enough for your professional work? Only you can judge that. But I feel confident that Apple will be covering enough bases with these new MacBook Pros. The fact they have gone from 2-3 weeks shipping times to 4-5 weeks says they are selling very well too.

Many photo and video editors are very happy with them. I was listening to a podcast last night with a photographer who shoots professionally for a living, and another who does a lot of video editing for iMore, and both have jumped in and ordered the new MacBook Pros because they are very happy with them.
 
Yeah people who haven't spent one second with these machines throwing a temper tantrum saying they're not going to buy. As far as I know Apple has never offered 32GB RAM option with the MBP before, when the machine was thicker and heavier than it is now. Why are we getting these temper tantrums now?
Because on an update to a line you expect an actual upgrade in specification not to be limited to an option that was available 4 years ago.
The 15" rMBP mid '14 had 16GB as standard and no option for more. 8GB was standard and 16 GB was an option on the 2012 models. It's now 2016. Applications get more power hungry and we tend to run more. It is time for an update to max out at 32GB as a minimum. Preferably 64GB. At the moment I see no reason to upgrade from my maxed out BTO mid '14 15" rMBP. Not one. The option bar is a gimmick as far as I am concerned. And the spec is not sufficiently different enough for a change. I normally upgrade my mac at every other generation. This time I won't. That's money Apple is not getting.
 
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Plus the actaul update to the laptop seemed a bit mediocre imo (they should have done more to improve the MBP).

Please tell me what they should have done different?

  • Best cpu's on the market right now (since Kaby Lakes aren't there yet)
  • Fastest SSD
  • Faster ram
  • Touch bar
  • huge trackpad
  • Better keyboard
  • Smaller and lighter

The only two things they could have done better would have been Pencil support for the trackpad and a better GPU. But those two are minor things.
 
"I think if you're looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?" Tim Cook

I guess this may sums up the attitude at Apple.
 
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  1. Keep MagSafe
  2. Added one standard USB 3.0 port on each side and keep the 2 USBc ports on both sides
  3. Keep the glowing logo; it's iconic and always needs to be there, Period.
  4. Add a female lightning port to the side to allow use of lightning ear buds next to standard headphone jack.
  5. Forget about going too thin on "Pro" line of MacBooks. Quit fiddling if it's not broke. Keep current overall size and increase battery capacity significantly.
  6. Everything else looks great.
 
Maybe complainers are right: Apple is "over" them. Maybe it's the time for those people to go elsewhere. Don't mean to be blunt here. As company, Apple is evolving. Personally, I like what I see, but it's natural that some people may be left behind. Maybe it's just time for those people to accept the fact to live outside the Apple world to be happy. In the end, it's all what matter.
I'm with Leo Laporte. Vote with your wallet. I know that's easier said than done for some but throwing w temper tantrum and whining on Twitter does what exactly? You really want Apple to get a messsge, stop buying. But all these people who say just update the guts and don't touch anything...if Apple had done that every tech site and places like this would have been whining about how boring Apple is and we waited forever for just a spec bump? The criticism would have been just as brutal.
 
Apple needs to get away from thin. No one cares about thin after a certain point. But they need to do it without losing face.

Enter the FatBook.

It doesn't have to be REALLY fat. Perhaps a 2011 non-Retina size could be the benchmark. Bring back key ports, much more user-installable ram, better GPU, upgradable storage, nice keyboard, perhaps even have a Xeon option.

Leave 'super thin' for posing devices for rich consumers and non power-users.
 
Wait, so you want Apple to go back in time to do what almost led them to their own demise by licensing MacOS to third parties?
NO, not really. I do love apple hardware and would not seriously use a hackintosh. I just wish they kept the macbook ultra thin but slightly underpowered and with limited ports and kept the pro slightly oversized with emphasis on power and usability.

I'm just really pissed off about this "pro", I have a pretty new rig that I can stretch out for a while. I will never switch back to windows so I'm going to be stuck carrying a bag of dongles some day :(.

WAIT... come to think about it one way Apple could save face and appease pro users without having to back track on going "all in" with usbC would be to have a very limited 3rd party (tightly controlled by apple) pro laptop. They could licence things like their trackpad, call it a gaming rig or something. Not just letting anyone use OSX but a tightly controlled limited 3rd party super-pro.
 
Please tell me what they should have done different?

  • Best cpu's on the market right now (since Kaby Lakes aren't there yet)
  • Fastest SSD
  • Faster ram
  • Touch bar
  • huge trackpad
  • Better keyboard
  • Smaller and lighter

The only two things they could have done better would have been Pencil support for the trackpad and a better GPU. But those two are minor things.
Yep, I love that apple has fast SSDs, but I would not say it has a better keyboard, I'm not sure how useful a larger touch pad is, but I also absolutely hate the haptic engine based touch pad. Its not the same imo as the "old fashioned" touch pad.

Don't forget that the MBP has less battery then its prior version and cannot go beyond 16GB which many professionals need.
 
I love how people are complaining they need a dongle for a thumb-drive!

I haven't used any thumb-drive for years! Airdrop, iMessage, email, dropbox do extremely well. AirDrop if you are close, iMessage if it is below 100MB, e-mail up to 5GB with Mail Drop, and dropbox for larger files or share with many people....
 
Fair enough, that explains why consumer level stuff might not have the power it once did but to call something "Pro" IMO means that it's aimed at a professional market; which is often a market that can't be done on mobile.

The MacBook Pro was created to be a stronger MacBook, one that photo or video editors could easily work on. Now that name appears to just mean the price tag.
Tell that to Microsoft with its Surface Pro lineup that only has a single USB3 port as its fastest i/o, and the baseline model is just a core m CPU.
Arguing about "Pro" monicker is semantics nowadays. Even Samsung uses "Pro" monicker for their J-series budget phones.

And are you implying that the current Macbook Pro is simple unusable for photo/video editors, at all? Do elaborate since I'm not a pro at all.
 
So 32GB magically became a 'pro' requirement in 2016? It wasn't one in 2014 or 2015? Prior to the event I don't remember seeing these tantrum throwers saying "if the new MBP doesn't have 32GB RAM it's a failure and I'm not buying one".

People who use 16GB of ram in their MBP since 2011 or even earlier and need as much ram as possible somehow did not even dream that 5 years later absolutely no progress in this vital parameter would be made.

The main reason for the user rant about RAM is due to the fact that, unlike in the past, as RAM is now soldered to the motherboard, you cannot correct some of the stupid decisions Apple has made for you.
 
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What exactly defines a "Pro" user of a computer? A programmer? A photographer? Graphic Designer? I use a computer for almost all the work I do as a corporate finance "professional", do I count as a "pro" user!?!?

I think we need to get away from separating Mac users between "Pro" and "everyone else". I think it's safe to assume anyone that uses computers for hardware intensive programs in their daily lives understands them enough to understand they won't be getting anything more than mediocre hardware in a $4,000 MacBook "Pro". It doesn't matter what a potential buyer would use the MBP for, every single one of them is going to get ripped off for exactly the same reasons.

People buying for thinness and portability will gravitate towards the MacBook Air, imagine that Apple. People wanting power will go towards the MacBook Pro and Mac Pro. Don't you think even the less knowledgeable buyers will research specs and ask techie friends for their opinions? I could never tell a friend in earnest that the MacBook Pro will give them anywhere near their money's worth in terms of performance. This asinine push from Apple to turn the MacBook Pro into a MacBook Air clearly shows the direction they're headed.

The price to hardware performance ratio was enough to finally steer me towards Dell/Asus after being an Apple loyalist since birth, but neutering the connectivity down to where you'd need an adapter for plugging almost anything into it is what really drove the point home. $3,200 for a 15" laptop with Radeon 450, 16GB of DDR3 RAM, and half a terabyte of space? No thank you.
 
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True. I would add that most people don't really care about innovation in the sense Apple seems to understand it, most users simply want decent updates to specs regularly. Why is it such a big deal for Apple to upgrade RAM / CPU / GPU / display EVERY TIME when their vendors have new products available? I am perfectly happy with the design of my 2011 MBP. It's well thought of, lots of space for IO, battery and processing power. No need to change stuff for the change's sake. Just update the internals regularly. Same goes for the Mac Pro, mini, iMac, TB display.
Who are these "most people" you speak of? I'm guessing Apple has more insight to who's buying their products than any of us do.
 
What i liked about my early 2013 MBP 15" (I'm a pro)

- it has good build quality
- it is rugged
- it has an excellent display
- it has all the USB ports, i need (USB Sticks, ext. HHD, Unifying adapter, ext. keyboard etc.)
- it has a sd card reader (i use that quite often for music and photos)
- it has magsafe (saved its life for several times)
- it has a Hdmi port (need it every day at work)
- it has a good OS

So what more does 2016 MBP offer me?
- Spacegrey (no need for it at all)
- Touch bar (no need for it at all)
- USB-C, TB3 (nice to have one, but not only)
- larger price tag (LOL)

...and what less?
- all the USB ports, i need
- a sd card reader
- magsafe
- a Hdmi port
- The (hardware) function keys (yes, i really use them quite often in daily business)

Congrats Apple, great job!
Just another useless lifestyle product from my(!) point of view.
 

Back when Apple tried to make innovative products that were better than the competition, instead of just trying to convince us to have the courage to buy dated hardware at inflated prices.

good watch. I have to say though he pointed out how the MacBook gave you connectivity to EVERYTHING at a CONSUMER BASED PRICEE while providing the latest technology that others aren't offering. This is the Apple I remember and miss. This latest announcement was literally the exact opposite direction as the one you posted with Steve Jobs.

I know that some of the ports on that video are outdated but some are still very useful, like USB ports. Apple seems so concerned with getting as thin as possible that they used it as a reason to take out some of the still necessary ports and under powering some of the ones they included.
 
Sometimes, niche markets are important. The solid gold iWatch "editions" were a niche market - too, but Apple understood that they fed a strategically important market - in that case, getting loads of celebs - the opinion-formers for airheads - to pose with their Watches.

With PCs, niche markets are important too, but the target "niche" is less good looking and well-groomed. Apple need a "power user" machine in their line-up that is going to attract geeks and programmers, because its those geeks that develop software for other Mac and iOS users, provide community support, advise people on computer purchases and generally keep the Mac ecosystem going. People won't buy Macs if there's no software or support. Microsoft can choose to produce only eye-wateringly expensive "Surface" products with consumer-grade specs, because there's a whole PC industry producing everything from cheap'n'cheerful entry-level PCs to refrigerator-size gaming rigs and workstations to keep the Windows platform alive.

What Apple have done is produced a new MacBook Pro that is more solid-gold Edition watch than power-user pleaser. Even if they sell, they're not going to sell to the sort of people that keep a PC platform alive.

Conventional wisdom in the past has been that if Apple ever produced the mythical XMac - an expandable mini-tower - that it would either be so laughably overpriced c.f. a PC mini-tower that nobody would buy it, or it would be so cheap and low-margin that it would decimate sales of MacBooks and iMacs and Apple wouldn't get the income it needs (unlike other PC makers) to develop and maintain Mac OS. That's been pretty sound logic in the past, but maybe it needs revisiting?

Today, when the mass market is for tablets and ultrabooks, would a Mac mini-tower really hurt the sales of laptops? It would be dirt cheap to develop - get Foxconn to knock out an Apple-branded MicroATX or Mini ITX motherboard sans PS/2 and VGA ports, make a nice mini-cheesegrater case (heck, you can buy them) and flog it for a nice premium: not going to sell huge quantities, but the Mac power users will already be shouting "Shut up and take my money!"

Another "courageous" possibility: an official "Hackintosh" program: $50/year subscription (or pay the Apple Dev subscription) for "Mac OS Enthusiast's Edition" with "not for resale" & "must already own a Mac" clause, a maintained list of officially supported chipsets and the guarantee that Apple aren't going to deliberately disable it at the next update. Are enough consumers going to download it, write it to a stick, configure it correctly to significantly hurt Mac sales (if they were already queueing up for that option, Hackintosh installation is already pretty much point'n'click)? Anybody unscrupulous enough to ignore the license, risk Apple's wrath and distribute Hackintoshes or Mac OS install sticks already can.

Less courageous: a quad i7 Mac Mini with dGPU (they've had that in the past and the world didn't end).

OK, those two ideas might fail closer scrutiny, but any losses Apple make would be offset by much better goodwill from the Mac enthusiast community which is going to pay off long-term. If the Apple board are capable of thinking beyond the next quarter. Basically, though, Apple need to stop confusing Macs with fashion accessories, and realise that they Need the Nerds.

I agree, but I think that niche market will be served by the Mac Pro, if and when it gets a refresh. The MacBooks are your mainstream computers for the general populace.

Let's hope we see a new Mac Pro early next year.
 
I love how people are complaining they need a dongle for a thumb-drive!

I haven't used any thumb-drive for years! Airdrop, iMessage, email, dropbox do extremely well. AirDrop if you are close, iMessage if it is below 100MB, e-mail up to 5GB with Mail Drop, and dropbox for larger files or share with many people....

And I love when people externalize their own use case as if their workflows work for everyone. Needing a dongle for pretty much any USB device is the issue.
 
There is no simple BTO option. It would require a different machine that was thicker and heavier unless you want no battery life and the ability to fry an egg on your machine. I'm sure Apple has statistics on what percentage of the Mac install base needs desktop class specs in a portable machine. Obviously it's not big enough for them to design a separate machine around. I do wish people would at least wait for reviews before throwing these in the garbage as worthless.
Since revisionist history is the best history, allow me a small revisionist indulgence. What if Apple had kept the size of the MBP line the exact same size or even made the enclosure 5 or even 10% smaller? That would have ticked the thinner/lighter box and nary a complaint would have been made. That also would have given a larger thermal envelope and allowed for a larger battery. Could have gotten all the same ports (change one of those to a legacy USB port) and require one less dongle. Most are happy and have less to complain about. A BTO option would come with the understanding of shorter battery life as part of the trade off for more power. Apple gets their thinner fix, power users get their "moar pawr" fix. Everyone is happy. Now back to reality.

The decision to prioritize thinner and smaller seems to have driven every other decision about the new MBP. It seems to me a better idea would have been to prioritize creating a more capable "pro" machine that lives up to the Pro moniker. Thinner and smaller aren't the first descriptors I think of when Pro is mentioned.
 
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If you need more than the new MBPro, PRICE is not the problem; it's lack of POWER.

I would gladly pay over $5,000 US for an updated Mac Pro or MBP with 32 GB RAM. If you are making a living off this machine, spending an extra $1,000-$2000 every 3 years for your main tool (compared to a laptop) should not be a problem. Yes, it's a niche within a niche, but if Apple is one of the world's largest companies, with many billions in Cash, they ought to be able to do ALL of these things at once.

I sometimes need to auto-process a folder containing 10+ GB of hi-res photos, opening each one in Photoshop, downsampling it, converting it to CMYK or RGB, and then re-importing it into InDesign; or creating multiple hi-res PDFs of large books full of hi res images. I have several of these types of processes that run via a script or plugin, and having a faster CPU would speed up these tasks. I'd pay extra to speed those things up - but Apple's current products are not upgradeable. The old MacPro big aluminum tower was great - I could open the side, add RAM, hard drives, video cards - all within 5 minutes.

Apple needs to offer a machine that isn't meant to be used at a coffee shop. Those of us who need the power will pay the higher price.

Just build a hackintosh – dont make life so complicated.
 
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