Professional Mac Users' Complaints List Grows After 'Disappointing' Apple Event

[JGRE]

I hate to break it to you, but RAM really isn't that important anymore, as it was in the age of spinning disks. And we've always only bought RAM because of its speed compared to mass storage, not because of its size. And that was only to quickly feed the CPU with data to compute on. So there is absolutely no point in discussing memory without discussing the whole system performance. Just look at Geekbench to check your 'no improvement in over six years' statement!

Obviously there is a strong correlation between the speed and life span of a SSD and the available memory.
But hey, if you are happy.....

 

[kcamfork]

Everyone keeps talking about these mythical "Pro" users who are disappointed in the new MacBook Pros. But let's break down who those people are:

1) People whose software development practices require "multiple virtual machines" and remote servers.

2) People who edit "intensive" 4K videos.

For the first group, I would say they should use a desktop. Seriously, a portable form factor is absolutely stupid for this type of work. They could use the Mac Pro, but that hasn't been updated in a while. Why? Because these people are such a small niche that it's not in Apple's best interests to update it.

For the second group, I don't know what to say. I don't get them, because people edit 4K videos just fine on far inferior laptops. Yeah, it's slower and a little laggy but, again, the MacBook Pro is a MOBILE solution. Here again the Mac Pro would suit this niche better, but it's too small a niche to justify that machine.

But let's be perfectly honest here, 99% of the complaints aren't coming from people in either category. Some just look for any excuse to put Apple down because it's fashionable these days, some can't afford Apple's prices and they're angry about that, others are just repeating things they know little about (like how Skylake is outdated, good lord people are ignorant sometimes), while tech pundits write and say these things because it gets clicks/views.

When the benchmarks and personal use stories come out, the narrative always changes to a more positive spin. Apple stocks go back up, people start impatiently waiting for the next product and bash Apple for not churning things out faster and eventually bash those products when they emerge again. It's a stupid cycle but hey, it gets the clicks, right?

As Donald Trump would say, "WRONG."

I don't fit your definition of a "Pro" user. I'd say I'm more of an enthusiast. I like my products to be fast and snappy (giggity). I like them to stay powerful and quick for years upon years. I was burned by a Dell POS that I bought right before school. It was a desktop and the front USB ports crapped out right after the warranty expired. Anytime I plugged anything into one of the front ports, it caused a massive systemwide crash. Nothing short of a hard reboot would fix it. I fdisked. I formatted. I reinstalled. Same thing happened. I looked into replacing the front USB panel. One from amazon would be $20. Sweet! Except that Dell uses a proprietary connector for their USB headers (at least they did at the time, and now that I think of it, the defect may have been on the motherboard."

Point is, I'm not happy with Apple's direction because they tempted me over with a poisoned ahem. Apple. My retina MacBook Pro has ever port I'd ever dream of (except I did have to buy that effing ethernet dongle). I use them all on a regular basis.

I don't care if it is the future or not. TB1 was allegedly the future. How far did that go? They should have put 2 TB3 ports on the right and kept magsafe, HDMI, USB 3, SD card slot, 3.5mm on the left. I bet you would have close to zero complaints if they had don't that and kept it at a reasonable price.

 

[vcboard]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/31/13478080/microsoft-surface-studio-design-engineering-interview

Groene didn't want to talk Surface Pro 5 or Surface Book 2, but he did reveal that Microsoft won't be following Apple in some of its design choices. "We need to do something crazy," jokes Groene, responding to my question about removing escape keys from keyboards. "We will not remove the audio jacks, but we need to do something crazy!"

It feels like Apple's spirit of innovation has migrated to Microsoft

 

[dumastudetto]

So what do us Apple developers use for serious development work on the move? Apple don't make such a machine.

Yes they do, the MacBook Pro is exactly that machine.

I like Gruber's take on this:

"Most MacBook Pro users will do just fine with 16 GB of RAM (in fact, most will do just fine with the 13-inch models’ default configuration of 8 GB). For most MacBook Pro users, Apple is right to prioritize battery life over the maximum RAM configuration. That is, if they’re only going to offer one lineup of “pro” notebooks — which is how they’ve done it for at least 15 years."

 

[anson42]

1) People whose software development practices require "multiple virtual machines" and remote servers.

For the first group, I would say they should use a desktop. Seriously, a portable form factor is absolutely stupid for this type of work.

I beg to differ. I and my colleagues do exactly this because the machine is portable and extremely capable at it. I can work disconnected on trains, planes and buses, and of course at Starbucks I'm on a 2012 MBP (with a new one on order) running multiple VMs, multiple local Java-based servers and two IDEs. Turns out I max out at approx 12GB memory usage, and the processor power is adequate, though of course I ordered a new machine because I want a faster processor and WAY faster SSD. I would have passed on a pricey 32GB option if it were available, which from the sounds of it will be next year when Intel introduces a processor capable of it at low power. While I feel for the folks who wanted more from the new MBP, I'm a (veteran) "pro" who is in a happy place... ok maybe my wallet is less happy but, hey, I've been saving up over the past 4 years for this moment...

 

[Nati-Yolie]

A lot of these people are living in the past. We are where Steve Jobs predicted we'd be, living in a post-PC era where the market for high-end traditional computer products is a niche within an already tiny niche.

What Tim and Apple are doing is absolutely right for the company. Those complaining and hating on Apple and Tim are broadly speaking living in the dark ages.

I agree and disagree with this. Yes. the Pro market is niche, so building PCs with underwhelming specs is understandable, but don't call it a pro product then. Take off the Pro label and most of this controversy goes away. Because at that point, Apple is no longer claiming a non-pro product to be pro. Yes, people will still be butt hurt about Apple leaving the pros behind, but at least they wouldn't be lying about their products' capability anymore.

 

[Pootmatoot]

I ordered the new MBP yesterday and it is my first Apple Computer. But with all the hate that is currently flowing through the internet, i don't know if buying now is the right decision. I really think about giving it back...

It very much depends on what you, personally, need a computer to do. Don't be impacted by how it's breaking other people's usage: if they don't do what you do, it's irrelevant.

I would say it's more sensible to wait for the proper tech reviews though (MTR has her's out for the base model, and it's pretty 'Meh... oh dear'), and I'd strongly advise having a look over the 2015 MBP model too.

Given the new keyboard, it's also sensible to play on one when they're in stores: the Macbook-style butterfly keyboard is very much a love-or-loathe affair, and a keyboard is so critical that it can be make or break.

 

[vcboard]

Yes they do, the MacBook Pro is exactly that machine.

I like Gruber's take on this:

"Most MacBook Pro users will do just fine with 16 GB of RAM (in fact, most will do just fine with the 13-inch models’ default configuration of 8 GB). For most MacBook Pro users, Apple is right to prioritize battery life over the maximum RAM configuration. That is, if they’re only going to offer one lineup of “pro” notebooks — which is how they’ve done it for at least 15 years."

Developers are not 'most users'. I can't say for other developers, but with dockers and vagrant running, plus chrome for testing and debugging, sometimes 16GB is not enough

 

[Pootmatoot]

I agree and disagree with this. Yes. the Pro market is niche, so building PCs with underwhelming specs is understandable, but don't call it a pro product then. Take off the Pro label and most of this controversy goes away. Because at that point, Apple is no longer claiming a non-pro product to be pro. Yes, people will still be butt hurt about Apple leaving the pros behind, but at least they wouldn't be lying about their products' capability anymore.

Exactly... if the Pro line was marketed as the new Air line, everyone here would be delighted, and the old Pros just got a sold spec bump and colour options.

Of course, that means the pricing is totally out of whack (even more so).

 

[Gudi]

Thanks a lot, MacRumors, for this article. Somebody needs to tell Apple that ...

Let me stop you right there. I hope you don't live under the false assumption, that only because a lot of people are complaining, they must have good reason to do so or Apple must listen to them? False!

 

[moonjelly]

A lot of these people are living in the past. We are where Steve Jobs predicted we'd be, living in a post-PC era where the market for high-end traditional computer products is a niche within an already tiny niche.

What Tim and Apple are doing is absolutely right for the company. Those complaining and hating on Apple and Tim are broadly speaking living in the dark ages.

This is a great mainstream machine. It is about perfect for my medium resource intensive professional travel needs. Everyone has to judge price for themselves. I suggest the price critics do not see the value of the package as a whole, where others do.

However there is a valid complaint from an important Apple customer base. Professionals doing high resource intensive work, with legitimate use for a transportable [or any] Mac workstation. "Max out" a Lenovo P70 with quad Xeon, 64+ GB, dual 2 TB ePCI SSDs, and best available GPU. Its a $6000 machine. Its not mainstream. The argument is that these developers and content creators are both trend setters and a driving force behind the scenes of the computer world. The argument is that neglecting this niche over the more profitable mainstream market will be a bad long term business decision. Time will tell. But there is a shrinking upgrade time window where these people will be forced to leave the Mac ecosystem to continue their profession.

 

[StrawberryX]

I hope a 32gb models comes rather sooner ( 1y ) than later ( 3y ),
so everyone can stop fighting over what other people need and do.

If none needed 32gb, and everyone with a Mac Pro and 64gb or 128gb is just doing it wrong and living in the past,
there wouldn't be such an outcry ...

 

[CyberFriar]

Apple thinks people only use their devices for listening to music and browsing the web.

 

[dumastudetto]

Developers are not 'most users'. I can't say for other developers, but with dockers and vagrant running, plus chrome for testing and debugging, sometimes 16GB is not enough

No, but most developers are MacBook Pro users. And most developers can easily do their work on a machine with 16GB of memory. I'm not saying all. There are absolutely specific use cases where more memory could be required such as virtualization, although I do some of that comfortably on my 16GB MBP. Grubers point is Apple is right to build a pro laptop machine that meets the needs of most users.

 

[amegicfox]

people who says "Apple is focusing on a different customer and it's not you" are more retarded the Tim.

example: having the option, who wants a mac without magsafe ? NO ONE

Apple's line up sucks and they messed up big time, is simple as that.

 

[MarcBou]

A lot of members were asking (or demanding) for a 32GB RAM option before the event. This is just a handful of recent quotes from the Waiting for Skylake MBP thread.

Exactly, I'm one of those you quoted.

I like the design of the new MBP, I kinda like the touchbar, it could have some nice uses in future (not worried about F Keys since I don't usually use them), still doubtfull about the butterfly keyboard (I've just tested it on the macbook at the Apple store like 5 minutes, so I might get used to it and they say this new one is better. About the USB-C, not worried either, when I take the laptop somewhere I'll just need a small USB-C to USB-A adapter for a flashdrive or external HDD, not a big deal, and at home just need one for HDMI and a couple of USB-A.

That said, I do have a problem with the RAM, I do profesional video editing and I need a laptop to be able to work anywhere, and even if 16Gb of RAM can be enough to edit decently, in a close future it's gonna be more obvious that I'll need more RAM. That fact is what's making me doubt about getting a MBP or a windows laptop (Dell XPS15 with 32Gb RAM). I'll probably end up buying the MBP (I have to make a decision this week) because most of people I work with owns Mac machines so it's easier for me to have Mac for compatibility reasons, but it breaks my balls that RAM thing, and I can't wait till they get updated with 32gb because I need to get one this month cause my laptop is dead (8 years old ASUS).

 

[pookynubber]

Mac "PRO" users are not the company's base. Get over yourself if you think that's the case. Mac didn't become this "wealthy" because of Mac Pro's, but from most things i. iPod, iPhone, iPad, even iMac. The people that read MacRumor sites are not the 'base' we all know many people who have those iDevices (as well as music and content subscriptions) that don't ready this site. The sky isn't falling at Apple, and Time Cook is wearing clothes.

 

[ckxnlol]

It seems everyone is pretty much only complaining about the RAM capacity. I have a Mid 2015 15" MBP, and run multiple VMs at once which is quite memory intensive and the laptop is still snappy. Also, for you video and audiophiles, it's all about processing vs memory. I also heavily use Pro Tools and Final Cut Pro, so really what the hell are you people running that requires 32g of memory?

We have on-the-fly mbp for quick editing as a fast track to playout running premiere and mediacomposer. They're constantly utilizing all the memory available on the machine.

 

[needfx]

I think a homebrew mbp mod club should spring up to fill the gap

 

[Menneisyys2]

People seem to forget A LOT on these forums and in the world in general. I wish someone made a document or some type of graph that showed all of the things that went down while Steve was alive and then they'd realize "wow, so Apple isn't that much different now after all."

But at least we had the CHOICE back then. Yes, we even had access to the 17" model.

 

[Lone Deranger]

If 16 GB of RAM is hurting your productivity, you're doing something wrong. It's not even debatable.

Hahaha.. brilliant analysis. Well done sir. You should hire out your services as a pipeline engineer. VFX companies around the world could use your expertise. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[canadianreader]

Sorry 32GB doesn't exist for pro laptops. It does exist for desktop machines.

32GB ram option exists in many laptop running windows example

 

[StrawberryX]

I don't think Mac Pro users ever thought they are the base haha.
Mac Pro users probably know more then ever they are not the base.
Most are also shifting too windows ...
I do think the G5 and Mac Pro towers helped giving Apple somekind of elite status they are now losing,
they came rich because of Iphone, but if it wasn't for pro users Apple wouldn't exist anymore.
Pro users helped the mac sell when none bought Apple products.

 

[mytdave]

Anyone who thinks more than 16GB of RAM is unnecessary hasn't tried to run the latest version of MS Office.

 

[sleepydinosaur]

Okay, John Sculley...

You'd rather bitch about updates when you have to rely on Intel who can't find their ass with a road map?

That's not clear thinking. Especially considering Apple went from using mostly off the shelf processors to making arguably the best mobile processors on the planet.