Professional Mac Users' Complaints List Grows After 'Disappointing' Apple Event

[rgilvert]

A lot of these people are living in the past. We are where Steve Jobs predicted we'd be, living in a post-PC era where the market for high-end traditional computer products is a niche within an already tiny niche.

What Tim and Apple are doing is absolutely right for the company. Those complaining and hating on Apple and Tim are broadly speaking living in the dark ages.

Tim is doing what John Sculley did to Apple years ago....perfect operational execution, absolutely lack of innovation and as such the mightly Apple will sink again, and will need another innovation oriented CEO, leaving operational excellence to one of the VPs...

 

[dennysanders]

i wish i could see a comparison video of two machines, one with 16gb and the other with 32gb of ram. i would love to see how much of a difference it makes.

 

[Andrewtst]

The complain because it is only max 16 GB. Is it really you all guy fully utilize 32 GB in run? If not I don't see this is an issue.

I even seen one member here post his Windows 10 having 64 GB RAM? This is insanity! Even my company server (single server not VM core) also not using 64 GB RAM. Having that much RAM not means it is really needed.

 

[dallegre]

i wish i could see a comparison video of two machines, one with 16gb and the other with 32gb of ram. i would love to see how much of a difference it makes.

Think about this. Your new MBP is going to last you 4-5 years right? You're a professional that runs demanding apps. Maybe you edit 4k video and apply an effect or two in post. Do you think you may want 32gb of RAM in the next 4-5 years? You need to buy it now, because it's soldered into the board, except you can't, because Apple doesn't offer it.

 

[CaneCollegeboy]

I see a few issues here that some are Apples faults and others are out of there reach. Intel has really been lagging behind on the chip delivery hence the minimal increase in performance. Also what is an actual Pro user to Apple? Most Pro users dont care about how thin or thick the laptop is, instead they care about performance. In this sense Apple has failed but to a greater sense its an Intel issue.
Ok so you cant stand out on performance because of Intel then do something to stand out. The Oled touch bar is a start but honestly most Pros wont care and this is more of a feature every day people will use. Touch ID, great but honestly why did it take this long to implement? What else can Apple do to stand out since chip performance will be the same thanks to Intel.

 

[simon lefisch]

But I have to admit as a 'Pro' user, every time I buy Mac hardware now, I feel like I am forced into buying a typical consumer machine and hoping it can handle the work.

An OVERPRICED consumer machine

 

[danielwsmithee]

The complain because it is only max 16 GB. Is it really you all guy fully utilize 32 GB in run? If not I don't see this is an issue.

I even seen one member here post his Windows 10 having 64 GB RAM? This is insanity! Even my company server (single server not VM core) also not using 64 GB RAM. Having that much RAM not means it is really needed.

I've got 32GB of RAM on my desktop. When I upgraded from 12GB to 32GB it made a night and day improvement. I typically have at least one virtual machine running and multiple scientific simulation sessions, each one requires about 8GB of RAM. Our lab server has 64 GB, which is constantly running multiple simulation sessions.

People talk about Video production being the only market where people need a lot of RAM, and forget all the other smaller markets like scientific computing. Apple use to care a lot about these market segments...

 

[dennysanders]

Think about this. Your new MBP is going to last you 4-5 years right? You're a professional that runs demanding apps. Maybe you edit 4k video and apply an effect or two in post. Do you think you may want 32gb of RAM in the next 4-5 years? You need to buy it now, because it's soldered into the board, except you can't, because Apple doesn't offer it.

i just wanna see a side-by-side comparison; that's all. i'm very skeptical that it would make that much of a difference. somebody make a video and show me i'm wrong.

 

[wallysb01]

i wish i could see a comparison video of two machines, one with 16gb and the other with 32gb of ram. i would love to see how much of a difference it makes.

With RAM its not so much how much faster X application is, its does application X work at all. If you can't fit your data in RAM, that's it, you can't do it. Well, that's not exactly right, you can swap to disk instead of RAM, but RAM data read speeds are a good ~20-40x faster than the SSD. And the issue is that the computer more or less freezes while this is occurring, as the IO to the single drive in your computer is maxed out (which is why its nice having your swap located on a non-boot drive, if you have a choice and use swap at all). So, its not like you can just wait for the application to finish what its doing while you do something else on the computer.
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i just wanna see a side-by-side comparison; that's all. i'm very skeptical that it would make that much of a difference. somebody make a video and show me i'm wrong.

We don't need to prove this to you. You just need to educate yourself on your own.

 

[idunn]

I remember my time at an Academy Award winning VFX facility and having to manage Shake. What joyous times it was when we discovered that Apple were going to abandon it. And when I left that company to work for a VFX software development company, we principally all used Macs (it is - was - maybe still is with the new model - a brilliant device for engineers). I brought in an Xserve to help build Mocha, the planar tracking software. Mocha went on to win an Academy Award in the technical Oscars category. And Apple then only went and discontinued the Xserve.

It flirts with creative professionals, but never really seems to go any further. It has caused a hell of a lot of problems as a consequence.

Gold plate this and hang it prominently in Tim Cook's office.

Well, maybe no—someone else at Apple who is paying attention.

 

[BKF]

Just here to throw in an amen to the Michael Tsai piece, in case someone from Apple is counting.

 

[SnoFlo]

The complain because it is only max 16 GB. Is it really you all guy fully utilize 32 GB in run? If not I don't see this is an issue.

I even seen one member here post his Windows 10 having 64 GB RAM? This is insanity! Even my company server (single server not VM core) also not using 64 GB RAM. Having that much RAM not means it is really needed.

My system is presently running on 128GB of RAM, is that a crime on this forum?

 

[dennysanders]

With RAM its not so much how much faster X application is, its does application X work at all. If you can't fit your data in RAM, that's it, you can't do it. Well, that's not exactly right, you can swap to disk instead of RAM, but RAM data read speeds are a good ~20-40x faster than the SSD. And the issue is that the computer more or less freezes while this is occurring, as the IO to the single drive in your computer is maxed out (which is why its nice having your swap located on a non-boot drive, if you have a choice and use swap at all). So, its not like you can just wait for the application to finish what its doing while you do something else on the computer.
[doublepost=1478114202][/doublepost]

We don't need to prove this to you. You just need to educate yourself on your own.

if it's a big difference, it should be easy to demonstrate. i don't care enough about it to research it, though. i'm happy with 16gb on my new MacBook. i think it'll be just fine

 

[wallysb01]

if it's a big difference, it should be easy to demonstrate. i don't care enough about it to research it, though. i'm happy with 16gb on my new MacBook. i think it'll be just fine

It sure wouldn't be hard if you had the hardware to do it, no. But its not necessary to do either. I have a workstation with 128GB of RAM, so I guess I could do it. But no, I'm not going to. There is literally zero reason to bother.

If you're happy, great.

 

[mollyc]

I use an iMac and have no desire currently for a laptop. But my iMac is a late 2012 model, having upgraded from a 2008 model that only accepted 4GB RAM. When I got my 2012 model I jacked in 32GB. I have no idea if my computer actually utilizes it all, but the point is, software is only going to require *more* ram in the future, which is why I maxed out my current iMac. The limiting factor on my original iMac was RAM, so I put in as much as I could to avoid having to upgrade again. And now my existing computer is the same age as my last and I'm not yet feeling constrained. That's why I did it in the first place!

I run LR/PSCC and often have the fan running when doing heavy exports. I have no issues with people saying they want at least 32GB in a laptop to be functional. Just because the general *you* doesn't need or want it doesn't dismiss the needs/wants of others.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

785 comments and counting. There may be something to this...

 

[sarge]

Majority of Macbooks sold are used for Facebook so the emoji tool bar makes perfect sense.

For the boring pro work with CATiA, Solidworks, ANSYS, OrCAD, etc. pros use something else that mirrors this list or the new Surface Studio perfection.

http://www.3ds.com/support/certified-hardware/

I went into the MS Store the other day to check out the Surface Studio and was fairly impressed- especially with the cool ass dial knob. Now if only they can get their OS straightened out. I have a 2011 Macbook pro that properly straddled the transition to new technology with a thunderbolt port, 2 usb 3s, a firewire 800, Ethernet, SD slot, superdrive, and magsafe. The thing rocks and -graphics card meltdowns aside, was my favorite Macbook ever. From my cold dead fingers they'll have to pry it...

 

[badlydrawnboy]

A reader of DigiLloyd's Mac Performance Guide blog posted this suggestion for how Apple could proceed and maintain it's consumer focus without sacrificing pro users. Of course it will never happen but I like the thinking:

As long as Apple is marching to one master (high-margin consumer sales) the idea of ‘professional’ products doesn’t stand a chance. It’s just too much in conflict with the end-game of a consumer product company, even one as capable as Apple.

I’m now wondering if a possible way out would be for Apple to create a ‘Professional Division’ (don’t even use the word ‘Pro’ which has lost all meaning, not only within Apple’s products but in just about every other industry). Set it up as a separate profit center, and incorporate not just hardware but also software (Final Cut, developer tools, even the not-talked-about stepchild that is Filemaker), and most important - a ‘professional’ version of Mac OS. Strip out all the consumer gewgaws that are always in a half-assed developmental state and just provide a bulletproof base of operations for people who actually use their computers for their livelihood. Don’t let Eddy Cue anywhere near the premises.

This would free up the professional hardware and software to include more ‘legacy’ interfaces or other functionality that has been stripped out over the years, and if it ends up costing more then that’s the price we’ll have to pay. (Either that, or people will end up switching platforms, which is happening anyway.) Apple can still leverage their economies of scale for most components, but the professional product lines wouldn’t have all the utility squeezed out of them for the sake of mass consumer appeal.

I know this is most likely a pipe dream, and the logistics of maintaining separate product lines while keeping key technologies in sync is hardly a trivial task. But many auto manufacturers have been doing this for at least a century with their truck and heavy equipment divisions. And the question I’d like to see asked of Tim Cook, point-blank in front of reporters, is “What do your own internal developers use to get their jobs done?”

I don’t think an Apple Car can be designed using iPads and a touch-based drawing program downloaded from the App Store...

 

[bobborries]

It's fashionable to get rid of un-sightly ports, but fashion should have nothing to do with the users need for hardware interfaces. Apple needs to investigate how people interact with computers and what they need, not how good someone will look at Starbucks.

 

[sarge]

A reader of DigiLloyd's Mac Performance Guide blog posted this suggestion for how Apple could proceed and maintain it's consumer focus without sacrificing pro users. Of course it will never happen but I like the thinking:

I like that idea - like an AMG division of Mercedes.

EDIT: As long as said machines aren't $122K....

 

[Essenar]

If you're happy with 16GB of ram and you're not even in the market for a 15" MacBook, you're not even a part of the solution so stop being a part of the problem.
I'm a developer and today, right now, just running XCode, my browsers, my Git client, Spotify and running a Node server to test end points, I'm bumping into 13GB of memory.
This might not be a big deal now, but on a machine I can NOT physically upgrade? I need a 32GB memory option.
And stop telling me I should use a desktop for my uses. In 2014, a 13" with 16GB was powerful enough to fit my needs, a 15" was for powerful computing on the go. If what you're saying is true, the 15" shouldn't even exist since anything that requires more than 16GB of memory should just be done on a desktop.
How the hell is that innovative?
Let's be clear... If what people can accomplish on your flagship notebook actually LESSENS when you build a new one, you're a pathetic failure of a computer company. Simple, end of story.
I wasn't anchored to a desktop when I bought my Early 2013 15" Retina, why should I be anchored to my desktop in 2016 when I spend $2400 on a notebook?
The answer for us is simple: it's called the Dell XPS 15.

 

[zaaach48]

I am barely a professional, and I need this horsepower for PS, AE, PR, 3DS among others.
I can't imagine what other people might need like say, pro animators, colorists, scientists, software/app/game developers etc etc

apparently you are the sample size of 1 who doesn't produce anything on a computer other than spreadsheets, which in your case, you could do that with a chromebook, or an ipad pro...

I'd love a new MacBook...I record and mix music, often running 32+ tracks at once with lots of plugins on each. Doing this on a 2012 MBP i7 with 8gb RAM and a 256 SSD. Checking Activity Monitor, my RAM isn't close to maxed out even with just 8gb. However, CPU dropouts occur once in a while with a high track/plugin count. So personally I'm not worried that 16gb won't be enough.

Same with Final Cut Pro, I have more issues with CPU speed and disk read/write speeds than maxing out on RAM.

 

[Gudi]

I went into the MS Store the other day to check out the Surface Studio and was fairly impressed - especially with the cool ass dial knob.

Ha ha ha. OMG! The failure that isn't on any Windows laptop and has no developer support whatsoever? I challenge you to find anyone who will remember it in three years. It will be out of the tech news and forgotten in three months.

 

[zaaach48]

Apple have lost touch - and vision. Thinner and lighter is their target, and everything else gets compromised.

The price hikes are insane.

Laptops are still heavily used - businesses tend to buy laptops rather than desktops. Consumers tend to buy laptops over desktops.

It would be easy for Apple to offer 32gb. Make it optional upgrade.

Poor GPUs.. again.

I don't care about the USB C ports - it's the future. However, the power takes one of them. Down to threee. The SSD card reader is gone.

BTO ram and ssd are both excessively expensive , again.

The criticisms as
referenced in the story are very valid. I doubt wether apple are listening much though.

Comparing these laptops against competitors make them look very poor value.

Having said that - the touch bar looks like it has some potential.

The force touch - although not new hasn't really been picked up by 3rd party developers and still under utilized by Apple too.

Are you a hardware engineer? Did you read about WHY they didn't include 32gb of RAM? It's not just a matter of some person at Apple deciding whether or not to offer it.
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The MBP is too expensive from any perspective unless you have more money than sense.



Yup me too. I suspect it will too at least until they drop the price (6 months at least).



Because Dell XPS15 with 32GB exists.



Because Dell XPS15 with 32GB exists.

Yes, yes yes, dell suck etc etc. But here is the point -> in the past there was no option for a 32GB machine. Now there is. And for those that matters to, the relative weaknesses of the Dell are much less important than being limited to 16GB. Dell XPS is the spiritual successor to the MBP of old.

There's no way you could ever convince me to buy a Dell again. Stock Dell XPS15 is $1649 with an i5, 8gb RAM, 256 SSD. My 2012 MBP has similar specs...

 

[Telos101]

Aside from video and number crunching science applications, running (multiple) virtual machines is HUGELY dependent on RAM. If you're a developer, VMs are a big deal if you want to ensure your code works on differently configured platforms. Why doesn't Apple realize this?