Professional Mac Users' Complaints List Grows After 'Disappointing' Apple Event

[Michael Goff]

The new Intel chips apparently support only up to 16 gb of lpddr3 ram, it seems.

I can't find anywhere that says that. I do know, however, that Dell was able to put out a machine with Skylake and 32gb of RAM. Then again, they used DDR4 RAM and Apple doesn't.

Dell XPS 15: DDR4 at 2133 MT/s = 1.2V
Kaby Lake: Low Power DDR4 at 3200 MT/s (LPDDR3) = 1.1V or by Samsung at 0.6V
Old MBP: Low Power DDR3 at 1600 MT/s (LPDDR3) = 1.2V
New MBP: Low Power DDR3 at 2133 MT/s (LPDDR3) = 1.8V

 

[kaneda]

Back when Apple tried to make innovative products that were better than the competition, instead of just trying to convince us to have the courage to buy dated hardware at inflated prices.

Apple is DNA is slow decaying. I can see them be like Sony in the future.

 

[MarsViolet]

Actually I'm thinking "Pro" now stands for UNPROFESSIONAL.

Prosumer.

 

[needfx]

I'll just leave this here

and this

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

A lot of these people are living in the past. We are where Steve Jobs predicted we'd be, living in a post-PC era where the market for high-end traditional computer products is a niche within an already tiny niche.

What Tim and Apple are doing is absolutely right for the company. Those complaining and hating on Apple and Tim are broadly speaking living in the dark ages.

No, it's more like you're obviously a phone user and should probably spend your time reading phone forums because it's painfully obvious to me you don't know a fracking thing about computers, what they are or what they're used for, let alone why people would want them and what a JOKE Apple has become in that regard. Go play with your phone and leave real computers to real computer users stuck in the so-called "dark ages" (ridiculous statement).
[doublepost=1478295536][/doublepost]

A vocal minority is whining on the internet like they do after every Apple release. Yawn.

And the usual suspects are WHINING ABOUT WHINING like they always do in every thread when not everyone agrees to worship at the alter of Tim Cook like they do. Hey, if you can't stand opinions other than your own, go somewhere else where free speech is 100% dead (try Russia).

 

[mjako1]

New MacBook Pros a definitely let down, especially with the outrageous price. Epitome of greed and Apple has clearly taken their eye off the ball. What an embarrassment.

 

[stevet]

I have a 21" 4k iMac and the ram is soldered to the main board.
No upgrading option at all.

Wow, I didn't know the smaller one lacked that option... bummer and thanks for the info.

 

[smoledman]

Considering these are the only laptops on the market with the latest PCIe SSDs I would think pros are thrilled.

 

[MarsViolet]

Considering these are the only laptops on the market with the latest PCIe SSDs I would think pros are thrilled.

They might be if, among other things, the SSDs were upgradeable. But I think we've determined that these aren't pro laptops. They're prosumer laptops. In fact I'd say they're great prosumer laptops except that they're overpriced.

 

[asiga]

[...]
I didn't say that. My point is that Apple is going to dump Intel for ARM, and when they do they'll have iOS-native developer tools ready to go since they likely already have them up and running as they did OS X for Intel.

I never liked Intel. Design-wise, MIPS was superior, PowerPC was superior, ARM is superior. Almost every CPU brand has been superior design-wise. So I'd enjoy an ARM-based Mac. But I agree that not having an Intel CPU in the mainboard would reduce performance of virtual machines (which I use for avoiding going from box to box when testing executables).

Anyway, if your comment was considering that it would be possible to run MacOS on the iPad, yes, it would, and it would turn the iPad much more useful for me and for anyone who really needs a light, yet complete, computer.
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[...] We've got to be content with what we have and stop screaming for more.

Apparently, Apple is listening. It's a price reduction, and price isn't my main worry in this moment, because I'm more worried for the Mac and the future of MacOS rather than prices, but anyway it does seem Apple is listening. So, let me insist that we're indeed in a moment where we really need to scream for the Mac.

 

[Gudi]

Apparently, Apple is listening. It's a price reduction, and price isn't my main worry in this moment, because I'm more worried for the Mac and the future of MacOS rather than prices, but anyway it does seem Apple is listening. So, let me insist that we're indeed in a moment where we really need to scream for the Mac.

Price is the ONLY complaint I have with the new MBPs. Rich people find them unaffordable. A lot of the complaints about having to use adapters is also ONLY about their price. The one non-price-related complaint I hear is about keyboard noise and key travel. Everything else seems absolutely fine.

 

[asiga]

Price is the ONLY complaint I have with the new MBPs. Rich people find them unaffordable. A lot of the complaints about having to use adapters is also ONLY about their price. The one non-price-related complaint I hear is about keyboard noise and key travel. Everything else seems absolutely fine.

Then you must be really thankful to users who were screaming while you were saying amen to Apple and asking everyone to shut up and accept whatever Apple does without showing any discomfort. As I said, I don't care about price, but I care about having a >16GB MacBook and a Mac Pro that accepts several Pascal/Polaris full-size boards, so I keep "screaming" with the hope to be as lucky as you with the price reduction.

 

[Gudi]

Then you must be really thankful to users who were screaming while you were saying amen to Apple and asking everyone to shut up and accept whatever Apple does without showing any discomfort.

I supported everyone who complains about price and nobody who complains about port unification. Some people here have said, it's good that the laptop itself has no USB-A ports, but a USB-C to USB-A adapter should have been included in the box for free. And that was my idea as well. But I'm not stupid enough to outright demand a $500 version of the MacBook, because I know that will never happen.

As I said, I don't care about price, but I care about having a >16GB MacBook and a Mac Pro that accepts several Pascal/Polaris full-size boards, so I keep "screaming" with the hope to be as lucky as you with the price reduction.

My understanding of the situation is that the Intel CPUs do not support more than 16GB of the RAM type Apple uses. So you could as well scream against a wall, it couldn't give you what you want. It is well documented (even in the Jobs bio) that Steve had an philosophical objection against extension slots on the Macintosh. Now that we can compare the thinness and performance of an iPad Pro with the average self-build PC box, we can see the benefits of this closed approach. Components need to be carefully selected and tuned for each other to achieve the best possible combination of performance, size, weight, heat and battery life.

This can only be done by the manufacturer himself. There can not be a full-sized board slot anywhere in the machine, because it would completely destroy the power and thermal structure of the system and prohibit any further form factor innovation. Put an USB-A plug at the edge of an iPad and see how even that standard had no chance of surviving progress. The trashcan Mac Pro is an Apple product like all the others, it's got to follow the same design principles – proprietary, expensive, closed, non-upgradable, small, light, silent, beautiful, magic. If that's not what you're looking for, then you're looking at the wrong place.

 

[asiga]

I supported everyone who complains about price and nobody who complains about port unification. Some people here have said, it's good that the laptop itself has no USB-A ports, but a USB-C to USB-A adapter should have been included in the box for free. And that was my idea as well. But I'm not stupid enough to outright demand a $500 version of the MacBook, because I know that will never happen.
My understanding of the situation is that the Intel CPUs do not support more than 16GB of the RAM type Apple uses. So you could as well scream against a wall, it couldn't give you what you want. It is well documented (even in the Jobs bio) that Steve had an philosophical objection against extension slots on the Macintosh. Now that we can compare the thinness and performance of an iPad Pro with the average self-build PC box, we can see the benefits of this closed approach. Components need to be carefully selected and tuned for each other to achieve the best possible combination of performance, size, weight, heat and battery life.

This can only be done by the manufacturer himself. There can not be a full-sized board slot anywhere in the machine, because it would completely destroy the power and thermal structure of the system and prohibit any further form factor innovation. Put an USB-A plug at the edge of an iPad and see how even that standard had no chance of surviving progress. The trashcan Mac Pro is an Apple product like all the others, it's got to follow the same design principles – proprietary, expensive, closed, non-upgradable, small, light, silent, beautiful, magic. If that's not what you're looking for, then you're looking at the wrong place.

Man: I'm tired, and I don't have the time to discuss with somebody who won't accept Apple can make mistakes, and who won't accept that long-time users can help Apple by suggesting what products they need. I already told you several messages ago, and I won't repeat again. You mantra is "amen to Apple" (while at the same time you benefit when unhappy users protest and Apple listen to them).

 

[Gudi]

Man: I'm tired, and I don't have the time to discuss with somebody who won't accept Apple can make mistakes, and who won't accept that long-time users can help Apple by suggesting what products they need. I already told you several messages ago, and I won't repeat again. You mantra is "amen to Apple" (while at the same time you benefit when unhappy users protest and Apple listen to them).

The product is fine as it is, the keyboard noise must come down a little in the next revision and the price is going to drop anyway. Not enough for my euro wallet, but at least this gives me a reason to go to work. Sorry that I didn't bought your truth. Sleep well!

 

[TrueBlou]

Price is the ONLY complaint I have with the new MBPs. Rich people find them unaffordable. A lot of the complaints about having to use adapters is also ONLY about their price. The one non-price-related complaint I hear is about keyboard noise and key travel. Everything else seems absolutely fine.

I could afford one, but I very much doubt I'll be buying one. I honestly don't think they represent value for money any more, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say.

Don't get me wrong, I do actually like the new MacBook Pro, the 15" at least. I do actually like the Touch Bar, I think it'll grow to have some nice uses. But even though I'm used to the Apple tax after all these years and used to paying more for my Apple systems. This time they've gone a step too far for me.

Yet as contradictory as it may sound, had they at least given us the option of fitting more RAM, kept the SD slot and maybe even at least thrown in an an adapter or two to appease the millions of us who'll still have USB-A peripherals, I'd probably be throwing my money at them. As it is I think they're handling the transition quite poorly, so I'll sit this one out I think and wait to see what the inevitable refresh brings.

 

[Gudi]

I could afford one, but I very much doubt I'll be buying one. I honestly don't think they represent value for money any more, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say.

Just one question, do you already own a Retina MBP from 2012 or later? Because then you've got a lot of the value already at home. And Apple prices have always been ridiculous, that's no difference compared to the past.

As it is I think they're handling the transition quite poorly, so I'll sit this one out I think and wait to see what the inevitable refresh brings.

So you're not switching to Windows? Apple must be doing something right then!

 

[justinkaisse]

you can't be serious

View attachment 669845
+Titan Black

ps
I do not game at all

Right? How difficult would it be to make a computer that is engineered to be able to accept at least a higher-clocked version of the same generation processor, and, perhaps even the next gen or two?

Probably incremental engineer cost, and then minor bumps in processor to keep things going. That Mac Pro is gorgeous still, and as much as I like the HP Wave, its really not there. Who else is stylin' and functional as much?

And Mini was on the right track, except limited and non-user upgradable RAM.
[doublepost=1478362499][/doublepost]

Just one question, do you already own a Retina MBP from 2012 or later? Because then you've got a lot of the value already at home. And Apple prices have always been ridiculous, that's no difference compared to the past.
So you're not switching to Windows? Apple must be doing something right then!

I am, if no new sub-$1000 rig that works for me by end of JAN 2017. I work w/ win every day, and so enjoy coming back to OS X, but with no recent hardware that works for me, the time has come.

My primary computer has been a Mac since I waited for the 2nd Mac, the Fat Mac. Currently use a mid-2011 iMac 27".

Not saying I won't come back if something that makes sense comes out, but until then I'll VPN into a 2011 Mini for Mail and do the rest from the winbox.

 

[TrueBlou]

Just one question, do you already own a Retina MBP from 2012 or later? Because then you've got a lot of the value already at home. And Apple prices have always been ridiculous, that's no difference compared to the past.
So you're not switching to Windows? Apple must be doing something right then!

At the moment I don't have one. I had a 2013 for a while but decided to get rid of it when I set up my office at home, so I didn't really need the portability so much. I can get quite a bit of light/medium work done on my iPad Pro which surprised me.

But lately I've found myself wanting more power in a mobile device again. Honestly a part of it is a semi ridiculous reason, so that I can sit in the family room while I do intensive work sometimes and not get the complaining from the wife that she never sees me because I'm always in the office working

I've tried Remote Desktop with the iPad Pro and it's pretty good, but sometimes I need to be able to hook my devices up for debugging on actual hardware. So either I need to be in the office, or I need a laptop to work out of office.

I had rather hoped that with this refresh Apple would up the RAM limit, but sadly that's not to be yet. I know some (probably a lot of people) would find 32GB or more to be excessive in a laptop. But with some of the things I do even 32GB isn't quite enough at times. Of course I could cope with 16GB, any of us could, we just have to limit our concurrent operations. But it would be nice not to have to compromise, particularly on such a high end expensive system like the new MacBook Pro. I can cope with all of the other changes, they're not a deal breaker, but the desire to have more memory might just be the one that prevents me from buying this iteration.

Hell if I really wanted to compromise then a MacBook would do, I could do just enough on it and leave the heavy lifting to the desktop machine. I could even Remote Desktop to it when I needed it. All my files are on a central server at home so I can access them from any device. So compromising is definitely an option. I just don't like compromising very much

Oh, as for the prices, well as I say I'm used to the higher cost of Apple hardware. Par for the course really. But this time they've gone beyond ridiculous even for Apple hardware.

Im not switching to Windows because I prefer macOS. Always have and it and the fact that I can only develop on Apple hardware and software are the only reasons I'm staying with Apple. You can believe this or not, I don't much care. But I fired up a Windows system I have laying about the other day. It's very, very rarely switched on. Within 4 minutes of me switching it on the other day I was hit with a pretty nasty virus. My fault for not installing some third party anti-virus software of course. But good god you'd think Microsoft would bake in better security by now.

So that's why I stick with macOS, mainly I have to but also because it just works. I don't have to faff about with it to keep it secure and running well. That's what brought me to Apple in the first place and that's why I'll stay, for now. But that doesn't mean I necessarily have to agree with or like the decisions Apple are making.

 

[SimeoneSergio]

I think that after all these answers we can agree on these 2 points:

- Prosumers (that are the real target of this new MBP) can sit just fine with the 15" config capped at 16Gb and a not so powerful GPU that could have been the 950M. Be honest, you don't need specs beyond these;
- Professionals would have loved to have 32Gb -AND- a 960M as gpu (at the very least) for the top config;

Everyone here wanted an nVIDIA card, obviously. And with the above i think a big fat 60% of the replies in this thread would disappear.

And it would really be worth the amount of money they are asking.

 

[TrueBlou]

I think that after all these answers we can agree on these 2 points:

- Prosumers (that are the real target of this new MBP) can sit just fine with the 15" config capped at 16Gb and a not so powerful GPU that could have been the 950M. Be honest, you don't need specs beyond these;
- Professionals would have loved to have 32Gb -AND- a 960M as gpu (at the very least) for the top config;

Everyone here wanted an nVIDIA card, obviously. And with the above i think a big fat 60% of the replies in this thread would disappear.

And it would really be worth the amount of money they are asking.

That's pretty much hitting the nail between the eyes
I've said it myself, the target market for Apple devices these days are general computer users not the really demanding user, has been for quite some time. Now that Apple is as large and popular as it is, they don't need to focus on the pro market, the general consumers and prosumers are a much larger market than the rest of us. So that's naturally where they are going to focus their attention.

Still, it is a bit of a shame that they aren't even offering the option of catering to the more demanding market. I know there are those who say the previous MacBooks had a 16GB limit and we were fine with that, so why not now.
The trouble there is, at the time 16GB was enough, just. Things have moved on, our processes have naturally become more advanced and with that, more demanding. So while 16GB may have been fine four years ago, it's not so much now. But we're the minority now and I do think that the refresh next year will add more RAM as an option.

In the meantime we can either wait, or if we really want it, we can cope with 16GB. As much as I'd love more in the MacBook Pro just now, it would be foolish to say that 16GB is completely unworkable. It's a mobile system not my main workstation, I can absolutely adjust my workflow to compensate for the lack of RAM and keep the really intensive stuff for my main system.

That's also the beauty of being completely connected. For years I've been working towards centralised files and complete local and remote access to everything I have. Every file, printer, 3D printer and so on and so on, is connected to my network and I can access everything from anywhere. So there's no reason I can't work as best I can on the MacBook and when I need a bit more grunt. Just fire up Remote Desktop software and transfer the workload to my main system. When it's done there, I can simply carry on again on the MacBook.

So there's ways around the limitations of the new MacBook, of that there's no doubt whatsoever. It would just be nice if Apple still catered to us as well and we didn't have to use these workarounds.

I'm sure I was going somewhere with this, but I forget, bloody morphine so I'll just stop waffling now.

 

[scm6079]

I'll just leave this here.

In all seriousness, I'm okay with the USB-c ports, I just want Apple to release a new pro desktop machine. Much of the reason I'm so frustrated with the laptop release is that it was the only release.

 

[needfx]

I'll just leave this here.

In all seriousness, I'm okay with the USB-c ports, I just want Apple to release a new pro desktop machine. Much of the reason I'm so frustrated with the laptop release is that it was the only release.

even this video is updated faster than the mac line

 

[justinkaisse]

They're missing a big opportunity. IBM recently came out w/ a report that they're switching anyone who asks, and that's a huge % of their employees, to macOS because its soooo much less expensive to support.

I hope things that make sense are in the pipeline.

 

[Abazigal]

Man: I'm tired, and I don't have the time to discuss with somebody who won't accept Apple can make mistakes, and who won't accept that long-time users can help Apple by suggesting what products they need. I already told you several messages ago, and I won't repeat again. You mantra is "amen to Apple" (while at the same time you benefit when unhappy users protest and Apple listen to them).

There's a fine line between giving constructive feedback, and the sort of whining that we have been seeing around here for the past week. People also need to accept that just because they have given their feedback, it doesn't mean that this will be taken into consideration, much less acted on.

That the outburst may have been crucial to getting Apple to halve the price of their adaptors is incidental to the fact that this has also made this forum that much more toxic of an environment.

Yay to your cheaper adapters. I hope the cost was worth it.