I don't think that would serve any constructive purpose. And the rules are reminder enough.
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I don't think that would serve any constructive purpose. And the rules are reminder enough.
That would violate the moderation privacy policy of most members.
I think you could have gone about this a lot better. You could have emailed the admins and explained your misunderstanding and asked politely for them to review your case. They are human like the rest of us and may have given you a second chance with your apology. Criticising them openly here and suggesting a bias is just a sure fire way to ensure their decision was correct. Another poster used this thread to insult the site and the people commenting here, in what looked like an experiment to see how quickly they could get suspended. There are correct ways to go about things and being as tactful as a punch in the face rarely works.
What you are saying is there is a clear lack of personal responsibility. Instead the mods and admins were blamed for being trigger happy and applying the rules inconsistently. Doesn’t make a good case for yourself.
My impression is there is quite a large community that gathers here regularly, specifically because of the Community and PRSI forums, much more so than if it was just Apple talk.
As far as insults, while I don’t specifically want to see PRSI turn caustic, at least more caustic than it already is, why not moderate blatant hate, racial, xenophobic statements but let the insults stand? We are adults. Things like, needing to write smaller words so you can understand, don’t be stupid, or you’re ignorant. It would certainly cut down on mod load and instead focus on keeping the other parts of MacRumors civil. Just a thought.
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This could work. It could also go south very quickly with the discussion about a discussion getting more heated than the discussion lol
If they respond to their emails in a quicker fashion, maybe this wouldn’t of bubbles up to the way it did. I can totally understand if it takes them 2-3 days to respond, but more than a week and counting to respond doesn’t help whatsoever.
Everyone should know why I was banned, unless the moderators are afraid they banned out of personal political beliefs, rather than the rules. Transparency is key.
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Okay, I take full responsibility for why I was banned, as I can read whatever media sources I want. The rules are applied insoncsistently.
But again, this goes to the core of any exploration of how one sets about engaging in argument, or debate, or discussion, and whether anyone holding a different point of view deserves, or merits, the respect of being allowed to express it without being insulted for doing so, or having to accept being insulted as part of being "an adult".
It is a classic case of attacking the person making an argument rather than attacking - or addressing - the argument itself.
It also begs the question of whether people wish to vent, argue, or insult when using that platform. Is the goal to make an argument, or to exchange insults, or to silence the sound of The Other?
Is it even desirable to want to show basic courtesy or civility to someone holding a different (indeed opposing) point of view, or even to accept - or respect - that they may have the right to express it without being insulted or shouted down?
Maybe it is because I was a schools and university debater, and have taken part since in many meetings and some negotiations, but "you're ignorant/stupid/moronic/imbecilic" cannot be classed as any sort of a debate, and is hardly likely to win you debating points, or persuade anyone of the merits of your case, or point of view.
However, it may serve to persuade them that your voice is louder than theirs and that, unless they are prepared to lower themselves to that level of puerile debate, they are better off leaving the arena.
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One insult if left unchecked probably would beget another insult and there the thread goes. Is there any reason posters shouldn’t be required to comport themselves civilly?
It is a legitimate question.
Nevertheless, it's not easy to refrain from reacting to name calling and to being labeled a racist, xenophobe (and what not) the second you express a different opinion.
Same can be said about other Fora as well, where some members deliberately provoke those with a different view.
Your post is coming across as sounding as “entitled”. As the “bubbling” up and how this comes across is under your control.
It will not happen the staff will abridge the privacy of the sites posters by posting the moderation history. You can request your moderation history be posted, if you feel that strongly.
What you perceive as “inconsistent” maybe doing a good job with limited resources managing a big site with a lot of activity.
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It’s easy, report the post and/or ignore it.
But, surely there is a difference between disputing the argument ("that remark comes close to being considered racist because.......") and insulting the person ("you stupid ignorant racist"), and I would argue that a forum where current affairs, politics and public policy (not to mention religion and similarly contentious matters) can be discussed/debated should encourage an environment where debate, discussion and difference of opinion are enabled, and facilitated, but where deliberate insult (or mistaking deliberate insult for debate) and intent to give offence is, and are, not.
Life is not black and white.
S, those who resort to insulting others in a debate because of lack of argument are usually smart enough to do it indirectly.
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Not always, unfortunately.
And, maybe, too, there is a difference in the understanding of what can be said as part of "freedom of expression" on both sides of The Atlantic.
On these fora, I've seen posts where "stupid liberals" and "evil communists" were casually alluded to, rather than - for example - attempting to make the argument that the application of communist theory left an awful lot to be desired in practice for those who lived under it.
It is the old 'shoot the messenger' rather than dispute and disagree with the message, and it leads to an unpleasant tone in debate and a cheapening and coarsening of the very concept of public debate or argument.
The expression of it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.
The staff seems to see through those types of responses.
If by see through you mean eyes glaze over like the posts are invisible and nothing happens to repeat offenders I agree.
Was I supposed to care if I sounded entitled or not? Because if so, I didn’t.
I already waived my right to moderation privacy, thank you very much.
In my opinion, some members posting here really need to stop and read back over what has been posted. It is utterly amazing (in a not so good way).
Several have stated time and time again, that the mod staff etc. have openly allowed racist posts to be made, along with other posts that seek to incite rules violations of like or worse manner. The charge has also been made, that the staff has a politically based agenda that is intolerant of other views and seeks to quell posts that are contrary to the supposed staff agenda of the business.
Has it not occurred to any of those complaining and making such charges, that you are essentially calling the staff racists and so filled with personal and political bias, that it is impossible to have meaningful and productive discourse in the alleged forum. And while you continue to insult the staff in one breath, you demand the right to have a voice to make changes to the rules, so that they can better fit your apparent agenda of not wanting to stick to the subject at hand during the debate, so that some can return posts in like manner like kids of the playground with the next breath.
And you seem perplexed why there is silence from the very people you continue to insult...
Logic would dictate, that if those complaining felt so strongly about their alleged allegations, said people would remove themselves from such an alleged unsavory environment. Instead, those complaining rather dig their heels in, continue to insult and demand things from the business, because they think they are somehow entitled, because this is an internet business. The fact that the same complainers continue to stay and make the same ugly and unfounded allegations to the staff goes to show, that said person's really don't believe what they have been saying. If they did, they wouldn't want to have anything to do with such a business. And the staff is still allowing you to insult and demand rule changes from them.
If someone came to your business or home and called you racists, politically and personally biased, in order to continue promoting the business or home agenda, you would seek to eject said person from your business and home forthright. The words "No one comes to my business or home and insults and threatens me like this. You are not welcomed here anymore" would quickly come out of many of your mouths. And rightfully so. And yet, you see nothing wrong with do the very self-same thing here.
If some of you can't see the great disconnect in the aforementioned thinking and posting, you really need to take a step back from this site and do some serious soul-searching, in my opinion.
Several have stated time and time again, that the mod staff etc. have openly allowed racist posts to be made, along with other posts that seek to incite rules violations of like or worse manner. The charge has also been made, that the staff has a politically based agenda that is intolerant of other views and seeks to quell posts that are contrary to the supposed staff agenda of the business.
Has it not occurred to any of those complaining and making such charges, that you are essentially calling the staff racists and so filled with personal and political bias, that it is impossible to have meaningful and productive discourse in the alleged forum. And while you continue to insult the staff in one breath, you demand the right to have a voice to make changes to the rules, so that they can better fit your apparent agenda of not wanting to stick to the subject at hand during the debate, so that some can return posts in like manner like kids of the playground with the next breath.
And you seem perplexed why there is silence from the very people you continue to insult...
Logic would dictate, that if those complaining felt so strongly about their alleged allegations, said people would remove themselves from such an alleged unsavory environment. Instead, those complaining rather dig their heels in, continue to insult and demand things from the business, because they think they are somehow entitled, because this is an internet business. The fact that the same complainers continue to stay and make the same ugly and unfounded allegations to the staff goes to show, that said person's really don't believe what they have been saying. If they did, they wouldn't want to have anything to do with such a business. And the staff is still allowing you to insult and demand rule changes from them.
If someone came to your business or home and called you racists, politically and personally biased, in order to continue promoting the business or home agenda, you would seek to eject said person from your business and home forthright. The words "No one comes to my business or home and insults and threatens me like this. You are not welcomed here anymore" would quickly come out of many of your mouths. And rightfully so. And yet, you see nothing wrong with do the very self-same thing here.
If some of you can't see the great disconnect in the aforementioned thinking and posting, you really need to take a step back from this site and do some serious soul-searching, in my opinion.
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No, that is not what I meant and (I believe) you know it. If you believe the posts you refer to cross the line, use the contact us button to discuss the post with the staff after you reported it.
I personally don’t care, as I’m not the one with a gripe, but offered up an observation. @BasicGreatGuy put it very well.
I don't disagree with your argument, was just looking at it from a pragmatic, work reducing moderation standpoint. I don’t want PRSI to vanish, but certainly don’t want MR to turn into the Jungle, ie Facebook.
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See post 345.
Not in all cases, but it is understandable.
The reasons are objective and by no means driven by political bias as was insinuated.
There have been claims of political bias, but it wasn't from me. And the staff expressly has said multiple times they are only enforcing the rules of the site to the best they can.
There is such a double standard on this forum it's unbelievable. Where are you getting the information that we call the staff racist? That has never came out of my mouth. Yes, the moderators have a huge political agenda here to censure conservative voices, but no they aren't racist.
This isn't the moderator business. It's Arn's. Employees actions have consequences.
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(Trying to leave the PRSI out of this...)No amount of feedback from staff (and former staff), it seems, will convince you (or anyone else with gripe), that the staff enforces the posts to the written policies as best they can, without an agenda. Note the: "as best they can".
The staff(mods and admins) are trusted by Arn to run this massive site with millions of posts and thousands of "clients". I'm sure this thread has gone up to the "top", and maybe some other worthwhile conversations may come of it, but I don't see how accusing the staff of having a political agenda furthers constructive narrative in any regard.
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