Psystar Case Comes to a Close as U.S. Supreme Court Declines Review

[philipma1957]

And if Porsche offered a hatchback people would buy it too. Who cares? They have a specific market they want, and it's really none of your concern until you replace Tim Cook.

BTW it is my concern.
I am using a diy pc because of this decision.

I find it really annoying.

I went out and got windows 7 because of this. I no longer own or will own an iMac due to this. I sold my 2010 macpro due to this.

They can charge me more the 1k. Just let me upgrade the gpu when I want to.


I gave you a minus basically because apple refuses to address a person that has a 40 to 65 inch tv and wants a headless unit for quality picture.

The mac mini is not good enough.

The iMac has too small of a screen.

The mac pro is senseless overkill.

Either allow snow/lion/mountain lion whatever to be installed in all computers and charge for it like microsoft does or build the max mac mini/ mini mac pro nuff said!

 

[BaldiMac]

BTW it is my concern.
I am using a diy pc because of this decision.

I find it really annoying.

I went out and got windows 7 because of this. I no longer own or will own an iMac due to this. I sold my 2010 macpro due to this.

They can charge me more the 1k. Just let me upgrade the gpu when I want to.

Apple doesn't make what you want, so you went out and bought something else that will. Sounds like the system is working as expected.

I gave you a minus basically because apple refuses to address a person that has a 40 to 65 inch tv and wants a headless unit for quality picture.

The mac mini is not good enough.

The iMac has too small of a screen.

The mac pro is senseless overkill.

Sounds like they didn't actually refuse to address the issue. They just don't choose to address it exactly how you want them to.

Either allow snow/lion/mountain lion whatever to be installed in all computers and charge for it like microsoft does or build the max mac mini/ mini mac pro nuff said!

Or keep doing what they are currently doing extremely successfully.

 

[gwelmarten]

It would be interesting to know how they ran. Personally I find Apple's current desktop lineup a bit limited. I want something between the mini and the Pro, and the iMac just doesn't cut it as I don't want an all in one. If Apple made such a machine I would buy it.

Don't you remember this? Apple should stick to it.

 

[Mal]

Don't you remember this? Apple should stick to it.
Image

Yep. According to that approach, in fact, Apple has complicated their lineup with the Mac Mini additionally. That, or the Mac Pro is the one complicating their lineup. That said, I don't think Apple has too many models, or two few. I think their lineup currently makes a lot of sense, and I can't really see them adding another desktop model with the traditional PC beginning to decline anyways.

jW

 

[AmpSkillz]

The mystery financing comes from billionaires in China.

if you mean Lenovo then you are probably correct

 

[Rocketman]

The participants played this to the bitter end. The only justice was the result. The process was evil, lossy, and as is typical of the legal system in the United States, biased toward helping lawyers first.

Just Rocketman

To quote H.L. Mencken, 'The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.' (or as we now see in our lives, intentionally created by the government itself)

 

[devinci99]

Only thing, I realize with hackintoshes are they are just good for hobbies. I've used a hackintosh for 2 years and realize they are not worth using for your 'production' machine.

It was a pain in the butt to upgrade patch, and you always risk losing all your data and had to constantly backup and restore.

As a hobby I didn't care about reformat and re-installing every month, but when I actually tried to switch my main desktop from Windows to HacOSX, it was 1.5 years of pain. First I used EFIx USB Dongle with its promise of the easiest setup to install OSX10.5then 10.6; then they burned me when they didn't allow 10.6 and require customers to pay anouter 300 for a new. Then I went chameleon -- fairly simple the first time around: just a pain in the .... to upgrade from 10.5 -> 10.6. Then one of the upgrade broke triple display and I couldn't get it back.

I solve the problem by finally buying a Mac Pro. =|

Mind you I had a Macbook, but I wanted to try out a 'desktop' Hackintosh gave me a taste of it that my macbook could not do even with the issues.

What Hackintosh made me realise is how much I really needed a Mac pro. I've been happy ever since.

 

[AnonMac50]

Yeah... that's interesting. But I think the problem we run into with your logic (at least according to U.S. laws), is that Apple (unlike Microsoft), doesn't really sell such a thing as a "full retail version" of OS X that's intended to constitute a legal license when purchased and loaded on a brand new machine that didn't first ship with another copy of OS X.

You can buy a copy of Mac OS X that's in retail packaging, and will do a full installation on a blank hard drive in a Mac. But the license agreement included with it is worded so it's still viewed as more of an "upgrade license" -- because every single Apple Mac system someone buys is bundled with a copy of some version or another of OS X.

When Microsoft tries to force bundling of hardware and software as "one unit", it's a more complex legal situation because Microsoft doesn't even make their own PCs. Any such situation is fabricated by them, thanks to agreements they force other manufacturers to sign and abide by in return for special favors on pricing of the operating system.

That would probably work for Lion, but for Snow Leopard and earlier, there were non-upgrade copies.

 

[D.T.]

The court case means nothing. The fact that Psystar went bankrupt years ago meant that yes, you are not going to get any tech support from them.

Let me markup my previous post

<joke>
Wait a sec ... I’m having problems with my Psystar OpenMac ... so does this mean I can’t get tech support anymore?
</joke>


The [apparently bad] joke aside, I totally agree about the options for pursuing a computer with a properly licensed OS (I have a MBP). I don’t have any time for any _down_ time, which is a reason I’m also not much in favor of “HackIntoshes” other than as sort of “hobby” machine (licensing/legality not withstanding).

 

[BaldiMac]

That would probably work for Lion, but for Snow Leopard and earlier, there were non-upgrade copies.

Nope. All retail boxes of OS X required that you licensed a prior version.

 

[sinser]

What would make you think that? The word Mac Pro Appeared nowhere in the headline and it looked nothing like the Pro ever did! If Apple were re-designing the system we would be hearing about it at a hardware keynote just like with every other re-design. Heck, it would be bolded on the front page of this website and we would know since Apple would have taken down the store!

Obviously it was just for half of a second when I opened the site.

 

[rjohnstone]

Nope. All retail boxes of OS X required that you licensed a prior version.

Ahh... no.
The Snow Leopard retail copy I purchased from the Apple store had no such restriction.
I performed a fresh install on a clean system (new drive).

Unless of course you're referring to the EULA, which has still not been proven to be enforceable.
The software itself has no such restriction.

 

[3282868]

It might if it were aimed at being targeted toward consumers and priced cheaper which is what I was imagining. I did not think about pricing in the iMac range probably because I figured it would make no sense to sell at that price range lacking a display and iSight camera.

And anyhow it's kinda silly to argue this point anyway - Ever since the iMac came around Apple's philosophy about computers has been about non expandability (outside of RAM and HD) with one sole exception - workstation models that you have to really pay for. I doubt it's about sales - they just don't see it worth expanding their lines like that.

Again, Apple sold PowerMac's along with iMac's, both were in the same price range for years until 2006 when Apple dropped the PPC for Intel. You could get a PowerMacG5 for about $1500, and a 23" or 30" ACD for a well equipped current Mac Pro (which replace the PowerMac's). This in no way ate into iMac sales

There are many businesses and individuals who want a tower that is in line with what Apple offered before switching to Intel, and who do not need server class processors but need the upgradability and flexibility of a tower. OS X has always been a staple for the design industry, from graphic designers to movie editors. There's money there, from small businesses to large. The desktop is not going away, at least not any time soon. I wish Apple would realize this, they can easily afford to keep the enterprise power sect alive and well.

 

[pdjudd]

Ahh... no.
The Snow Leopard retail copy I purchased from the Apple store had no such restriction.
I performed a fresh install on a clean system (new drive).

Check the license - it is an upgrade copy. You can do fresh installs from a blank drive with Windows OS upgrades too - you just have to prove that you qualify.

Heck, Apple even marketed it as an upgrade.

 

[Glideslope]

Well, at least Microsoft can use their $ for other causes now.

 

[3282868]

Don't you remember this? Apple should stick to it.
Image

Exactly. When Jobs came on in 1997, he slashed peripheral devices such as their printers and focused Apple into four segments. Mobile ARM devices have become a large consumer segment, which meant Apple needed to shuffle their departments, however it has been at the expense of power systems. I don't understand why some believe that power stations are done. I have an iPad, 12-Core Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, iPhone and the only system I get my hard work done on is my Mac Pro. I wouldn't dare edit HD on even my MacBook Pro, the 15" display would drive be nuts compared to my work setup.

Professionals and even high end consumers still use desktops, and iMac's aren't the solution (again, if any part of that iMac dies, you're SOL with work as the whole system needs to be benched for repairs, unlike a tower in which parts are easily replaced without severely hampering your work). I'm excited Apple has become a great company, they have done so much it's impressive, but I don't believe it should/needs to be at the price of another market that is clearly not dying away. I've used OS X for work for over a decade, so have many, to have to switch costs time and money many cannot afford in this economy. So while consumers have flooded Apple with billions, those of us who supported Apple are being shown the exit.

 

[rjohnstone]

Check the license - it is an upgrade copy. You can do fresh installs from a blank drive with Windows OS upgrades too - you just have to prove that you qualify.

Heck, Apple even marketed it as an upgrade.

Nope... no where in any of the documentation, packaging or the disc itself is it marketed in such a manner.
The only "Requirements" listed are technical and printed on the side of the box stating CPU, RAM and Disk space requirements.
Oh and the lovely little fine print that says "Don't steal software".

EDIT: The only reference to a "License" is a basic URL reference telling users to go to www.apple.com. No license exists at www.apple.com
Yes, I'm being a smart ass, but so would any good attorney.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Again, Apple sold PowerMac's along with iMac's, both were in the same price range for years until 2006 when Apple dropped the PPC for Intel. You could get a PowerMacG5 for about $1500, and a 23" or 30" ACD for a well equipped current Mac Pro (which replace the PowerMac's). This in no way ate into iMac sales

There are many businesses and individuals who want a tower that is in line with what Apple offered before switching to Intel, and who do not need server class processors but need the upgradability and flexibility of a tower. OS X has always been a staple for the design industry, from graphic designers to movie editors. There's money there, from small businesses to large. The desktop is not going away, at least not any time soon. I wish Apple would realize this, they can easily afford to keep the enterprise power sect alive and well.

also the mac pro has go up in price as well. It's used to be $2,000 even then it's over priced.

But now 1 cpu $2,500 with 3gb ram????

Come on apple can have a good desktop at $1,200-$1,500 with a desktop cpu

 

[pdjudd]

Nope... no where in any of the documentation, packaging or the disc itself is it marketed in such a manner.
The only "Requirements" listed are technical and printed on the side of the box stating CPU, RAM and Disk space requirements.
Oh and the lovely little fine print that says "Don't steal software".

Apple's EULA has always required you to install it on Apple branded hardware. That is one of the legal requirements that permits an upgrade. You are dead wrong.

ETA: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf

Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Upgrade license for the Apple Software,
you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time. You
agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple
Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple
computers at the same time.

This is on the disc when you install it.

 

[zewazir]

Ahh... no.
The Snow Leopard retail copy I purchased from the Apple store had no such restriction.
I performed a fresh install on a clean system (new drive).

Unless of course you're referring to the EULA, which has still not been proven to be enforceable.
The software itself has no such restriction.

There are OEM disks out there (not many, but some) which can also be used to put a fresh install of OSX, plus the iLife bundle, on multiple Macs, including older models that did not come with the software versions on the OEM disks. Just because the installer allows the user to put a copy of the OS on a freshly formatted drive does not mean it is legal to be put on ANY disk on ANY machine.

Apple, being "just works" oriented, more often than not built their OS installer to work without a previous version be preinstalled. If they did not do so, doing a clean install on a Mac which had been updated a couple times would be forced to install the older OS first, then use the upgrade disks. Gigantic PITA, when comparatively Apple generously wrote their installers to be able to bypass the previous version and just be installed fresh if/when needed.

As for your second remark, questioning whether the EULA could be enforced as written, or whether it resulted in an anti-competition environment was Psystar's central legal argument. Quite obviously, they lost, which pretty much means Apple's EULA IS enforceable.

 

[rjohnstone]

Apple's EULA has always required you to install it on Apple branded hardware. That is one of the legal requirements that permits an upgrade. You are dead wrong.

ETA: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf



This is on the disc when you install it.

No EULA is included in the package. One has to install it before one can read it.
Also, the EULA has never been proven enforceable.
Pystar lost on copyright grounds, not licensing.

 

[3282868]

It proves people want a Mac desktop but don't want the overly expensive un-upradable Mini, the giant glass iMac or the $2,500 entry level Pro.

A mini tower or at least a Pro that didn't break the bank for prosumers or someone that just wants expandability. What we all want is the old Power Mac G4 pricing and set up. Cheap lower specced single CPUs and more expensive dual CPUs.

Image

Exactly.

with the traditional PC beginning to decline anyways.

jW

Why are a select few on here stating this? Where is this proof that desktop stations are on the decline? (don't forget, the iMac is a desktop)

 

[gnasher729]

Unless of course you're referring to the EULA, which has still not been proven to be enforceable.
The software itself has no such restriction.

EULAs have been found enforcable in many cases. One of those case was Apple vs. Psystar. Oh, that's the case that this thread is about.

A bit more serious: Copyright law gives the copyright owner the right to decide under which conditions the software can be copied. There are very few restrictions. Some restrictions are that _if_ you are allowed to install the software, then you have the right to load it into memory (which is "copying") so that you can actually use it. And you have the right to make backups. But both only _if_ you were allowed to install the software. In this case: Everytime a Psystar customer boots up their computer with MacOS X, they commit copyright infringement. What a EULA cannot easily do is restricting anything that has nothing to do with copying software.

No EULA is included in the package. One has to install it before one can read it.
Also, the EULA has never been proven enforceable.
Pystar lost on copyright grounds, not licensing.

Wrong on several grounds: You can download the EULA from Apple's website. A company like Psystar would certainly be required to do that, or not to buy the software. And you can always read the license _just before_ you install the software. Second, EULAs have been proven enforcable again and again. Third, Psystar lost for copyright infringement and for DMCA violation, and the DMCA violation is a direct consequence of the licensing.

 

[rjohnstone]

EULAs have been found enforcable in many cases. One of those case was Apple vs. Psystar. Oh, that's the case that this thread is about.

Wrong... care to try again?

Pystar lost on copyright infringement (modifying and reselling Apple code) and DMCA (bypassing the EFI checks) grounds.

The EULA restrictions themselves were never addressed or resolved at trial.

 

[pdjudd]

No EULA is included in the package. One has to install it before one can read it.
Also, the EULA has never been proven enforceable.
Pystar lost on copyright grounds, not licensing.

I never said package I said Disc - and it's been available online forever. Anyway, it's irrelivant - Apple's SLA was held up in court.

Judge Allsup commented that Apple asks that you purchase a Mac to install OSX - which he said was reasonable.