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think Apple could influence the judge?

wouldn't,put it past them, besides, the fact that they are appealing means they must think 'something'

If Apple loses then they shouldn't have been selling a phone with GSM tech in it.

I assume from your righteous position that you would then support a fine on Apple equal to the profits made by Apple on iPhone? and a ban on sales until due licensing fees are paid.?

I wouldn't support that "fine" because that's not the law. There is no fine in patent cases. Instead, Apple would have to pay damages to Nokia. The amount of the damages would be determined based on the law. In this case, the damages would most likely be whatever the court finds to be the "fair reasonable and non-discriminatory" royalty rate, which certainly would be less than Apple's profits. Alternately the court might find that a so-called "reasonable royalty" is the proper amount. A reasonable royalty would also be far less than Apple's profits. This is not because I am an Apple fan or something - I'm simply stating what the law is.

Your argument of "if apple loses they shouldn't have been selling..." is specious. That's not the way patent law works. If apple loses, they should pay damages, and at that point the court may or may not order an injunction. Much like contract breach, there is no criminal component or "penalty" for patent infringement. This differs from copyright infringement. In copyright infringement you can be penalized above and beyond the damages you caused, including jail time. Unless apple is found to have "willfully infringed" they won't even have to pay treble damages. And since Nokia hasn't asked for a preliminary injunction, under the precedent of In re Seagate there won't be willfulness damages. (Apple certainly had already obtained opinion of counsel, in any case, which would almost certainly have prevented such damages - in other words, lawyers wrote a formal opinion explaining that the nokia patents were invalid or unenforceable or not infringed, and Apple in good faith relied on this opinion).
 
WOW! Really who are their financial backers? I can't think of a worst investment and better way to throw money away unless they have an agenda!

JUST DIEEEEEEEEEEEE ALREADY! :rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't support that "fine" because that's not the law. There is no fine in patent cases. Instead, Apple would have to pay damages to Nokia. The amount of the damages would be determined based on the law. In this case, the damages would most likely be whatever the court finds to be the "fair reasonable and non-discriminatory" royalty rate, which certainly would be less than Apple's profits. Alternately the court might find that a so-called "reasonable royalty" is the proper amount. A reasonable royalty would also be far less than Apple's profits. This is not because I am an Apple fan or something - I'm simply stating what the law is.

Your argument of "if apple loses they shouldn't have been selling..." is specious. That's not the way patent law works. If apple loses, they should pay damages, and at that point the court may or may not order an injunction. Much like contract breach, there is no criminal component or "penalty" for patent infringement. This differs from copyright infringement. In copyright infringement you can be penalized above and beyond the damages you caused, including jail time. Unless apple is found to have "willfully infringed" they won't even have to pay treble damages. And since Nokia hasn't asked for a preliminary injunction, under the precedent of In re Seagate there won't be willfulness damages. (Apple certainly had already obtained opinion of counsel, in any case, which would almost certainly have prevented such damages - in other words, lawyers wrote a formal opinion explaining that the nokia patents were invalid or unenforceable or not infringed, and Apple in good faith relied on this opinion).



surely there is a very strong argument for substantial damages if Apple loses.?

No phone= no marketshare, no app store.... no damage to any other competitor.

If they lose how have they NOT wilfully infringed?

what about the ITC ban as per Nokias request?
 
surely there is a very strong argument for substantial damages if Apple loses.?

No phone= no marketshare, no app store.... no damage to any other competitor.

If they lose how have they NOT wilfully infringed?

what about the ITC ban as per Nokias request?

Fortunately or unfortunately, damages are not computed that way. They are computed based on what a fair negotiation would have produced, essentially. The patent holder is not entitled to a windfall due to infringement.

Willful infringement requires a mental state of (in layman's terms) I know I'm infringing, but I just don't care. As I pointed out, Nokia isn't even entitled to that without asking for a preliminary injunction (in court. ITC has nothing to do with it). And even if they asked for a preliminary injunction, what typically happens is that when Nokia came to Apple and demanded $$, Apple would hire an independent lawfirm to investigate the patents and produce a formal written opinion as to its validity, as to its enforceability, and/or as to whether there is infringement. Assuming the opinion isn't facially nonsense, Apple is entitled to rely on it, thus they don't have the required mental state.

Almost never is willful infringement actually found in patent cases. It requires particularly bad behavior on the part of the infringer.
 
BTW there is a german compnay doing a 'psystar' but Apple hasn't gone after them..

why?

No chance they would win in Europe...

Last time I checked PearC operates from a home in a residential area somewhere in Germany, and doesn't have its own phone number. That may have something to do with why they aren't sued.

And knowing a tiny bit about German business laws, you won't believe how dead PearC would be if Apple went to court.
 
They didn't make all that much money im sure, so somebody with the bucks and are out to get Apple are backing them
 
Love it!

I may be the only one here happy about the news: GO PSYSTAR!!!

It is so hypocritical to see all of the Apple "Fans" criticize Psystar, how many of you have jailbroken iPhones, stealing Apps from Apple, or downloaded hacked copy on torrents? I thought so... who's the hacker now?

GO PSYSTAR!!! (Edited out for sanity's sake.)

Well, not me.

I just put together the hardware for a Hackintosh though. The difference is, I'm not selling it or making any money on it.

One thief doesn't justify another.
 
Love it!
I may be the only one here happy about the news: GO PSYSTAR!!!

It is so hypocritical to see all of the Apple "Fans" criticize Psystar, how many of you have jailbroken iPhones, stealing Apps from Apple, or downloaded hacked copy on torrents? I thought so... who's the hacker now?

You are projecting your low ethical standard on everyone else. Because you do it, you assume everyone does. It's a far different world than you can imagine.
 
I really have no idea, but I'd guess this mystery backer can do one hellova monkey dance.

You do realize where Microsoft makes most of it’s money right? Software licensing... The very thing Psystar was trying to claim does not apply...

EDIT: I have said this before and it bears repeating: There never was any evidence of any mysterious backers - none - there is nothing to suggest that Psystar runs their business like any other entrepreneur would - only with less legal sense. Filing cases with John Does happens so frequently that there is nothing that we can imply from it.

None have been named - we have to imply that there are none.
 
Fortunately or unfortunately, damages are not computed that way. They are computed based on what a fair negotiation would have produced, essentially. The patent holder is not entitled to a windfall due to infringement.

Willful infringement requires a mental state of (in layman's terms) I know I'm infringing, but I just don't care. As I pointed out, Nokia isn't even entitled to that without asking for a preliminary injunction (in court. ITC has nothing to do with it). And even if they asked for a preliminary injunction, what typically happens is that when Nokia came to Apple and demanded $$, Apple would hire an independent lawfirm to investigate the patents and produce a formal written opinion as to its validity, as to its enforceability, and/or as to whether there is infringement. Assuming the opinion isn't facially nonsense, Apple is entitled to rely on it, thus they don't have the required mental state.

Almost never is willful infringement actually found in patent cases. It requires particularly bad behavior on the part of the infringer.

cmaier-You sir have the patience of a saint!Either that or you just like talking to brick walls!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject.
Cheers!
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Psystar is like a squalid masai that by some great injustice survived a Lion attack and now, along with his bloody tribe, desperately seeks revenge.
Well, not quite as ignoble as those erect spaghetti-like worms, but equally persistent in its harrassing antics.


Oh, well… the matter isn't nearly as vile as that. Besides, it's a good thing for Apple to have to confront this: who knows, as a desperate measure our Apple might fill their beautiful cases with powerful, high-quality internals.
 
Love it!

I may be the only one here happy about the news: GO PSYSTAR!!!

It is so hypocritical to see all of the Apple "Fans" criticize Psystar, how many of you have jailbroken iPhones, stealing Apps from Apple, or downloaded hacked copy on torrents? I thought so... who's the hacker now?

GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!!
GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!!
GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!!
GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!! GO PSYSTAR!!!
:rolleyes::cool::D;):p:eek::):rolleyes::cool:;):p:D:eek::):cool::rolleyes::):):D:cool:

Either thats sarcasm , or you're projecting so hard you could use your head to display keynote presentations.
 
They steal the work of open-source people and sell the free work for profit.

Thats what Apple does. Take an open source project, slap apple license on it that doesn't allow anyone with non-apple computer to use it, put a closed source interface on top of it, barely contribute to open source and sell it for profit.
 
Thats what Apple does. Take an open source project, slap apple license on it that doesn't allow anyone with non-apple computer to use it, put a closed source interface on top of it, barely contribute to open source and sell it for profit.

That explains why no one uses webkit.

oh, wait...
 
Thats what Apple does. Take an open source project, slap apple license on it that doesn't allow anyone with non-apple computer to use it, put a closed source interface on top of it, barely contribute to open source and sell it for profit.

WRONG

If you actually look at apple's opensource components a vast majority of it is Apples own code/project and even if its not GPL, they still give it back.

http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1062/

"APSL, more than 100 matches"
 
I have come to a conclusion that Psystar is like Herpes... they won't go away. No matter how much you try.

More like Zombies. Psystar is the undead, a zombie company staggering around looking for more flesh to feed off of.
 
Surely their lawyers would bail no?.....I mean if they thought they were not getting paid.

If I recall correctly, they still owe their first lawyers $80,000, and their most recent lawyers are working on some sort of contingency basis (probably to get some notoriety?)
 
The reason most enjoy the fruits of Apple's efforts are because they make the operating system AND the hardware. These, subjected to rigorous QA, generally result in very, very reliable machines.

That said, I think the "hardware and software maker" model works much better than what Microsoft has to contend with (OS manufacturer trying to make an OS that runs on a near infinite combination of hardware components).

Psystar, for me, represents the diluting of the Mac OS experience.
G


Pardon, mate, I have to disagree with you here and there. I'll go a little further than just confront you and claim that the Apple's software-and-hardware model doesn't contribute to the reliability of the system. I'll say - and I've not a shadow of a doubt here - that that very model (aided greatly by wide-spread publicity; cult-like regard and fanatical pushing to anyone those obsessive poor Buy-a-Mac hype-zombies encounter) in fact guarantees that the computer briskly becomes unusable (and is, of course, dismissed as the most evident of truths from Apple's list of support-worthy systems) or passes away altogether! Because, you see, the more computers sold, the more money for Apple! If their systems were genuinely reliable (I support my standpoint empirically, by the way), they would last properly long and work properly well throughout much of their life.
Apple has learnt one thing: after buying a Mac and using it for a while, one has to lack taste considerably to buy an ugly computer with both hardware and software designed by a group of brainstorming construction workers! Thus, idiots (like myself) will go and buy another beautiful Macintosh after its 2 or 3 year old once €2.500,- predecessor stops working properly or crashes for life. Why do I, then, persist buying Macs? Because I'd be ashamed to death (and, really, it doesn't matter if I'm ever seen working on that system - I'd just find it very inappropriate, very hideous for me - to own an ugly computer with a vile - that was at least the case before Windows Vista - operating system)! I'm human, and my patience has limits - and I wonder how long I'll effectively carry on fooling myself into overpaying for overly underpowered beauties designed to automatically end with God from within in a preposterously short term!

I'll stop complaining - Steve Jobs would make my ideal listener, but well… Instead, let me conclude with the following notion:
Apple's control over both software and hardware is the exact reason why Macs are not intended to last! That's the capitalist premise (I believe, it's called "The American Dream") Apple executes even better than Micro$oft at the present: to rip customers, overuse natural resources, ideally sell every generation of their computer to every single person in existence, create a global monopoly and become rich ad infinitum! That's what it is, and that's a shame!
 
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