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People look at moving away from Windows to Mac for a different user experience. If they go with a hackintosh, there is a great chance that user experience will be tainted due to the fact that the OS was not designed to run on that system. When the hackintosh starts acting up the user will blame Apple for this. They will think Apple sucks at making software, and call Apple for support. This is not fair to Apple because they are being represented to consumers inaccurately by a 3rd party selling hacked together systems.

I just had to chime in on this....


I totally agree that running Mac OS X on a Hackintosh tarnishes Apple name. When Mac OS 10.5.7 update came out some people noticed (Not all, I'm sure it works fine on your machine) that it wasn't working right. Then complained that it was doing this or that.

It's not Apple's fault that it didn't run fine on your machine. You are running the OS on a non-supported machine. It's not meant to work right... :confused:


Hugh
 
Neither does Pystar that's the problem.......

But in civilized countries, it is up to Apple to prove that the OS was "stolen." If they didn't, perhaps you should refrain from using the term.

Or would you approve of Xerox aficionados using the term "stole," when referring to the Apple mouse?
 
But in civilized countries, it is up to Apple to prove that the OS was "stolen." If they didn't, perhaps you should refrain from using the term.

Or would you approve of Xerox aficionados using the term "stole," when referring to the Apple mouse?

Xerox was given stock in exchange for engineer visits to see their tech so hardly stole anything.
Edit: Someone's seen "Pirates of Silicon Valley" then...
 
Xerox was given stock in exchange for engineer visits to see their tech so hardly stole anything.

Bleh, wrong again.... Yes, Apple gave $1m to view only limited research at Xerox. Not to steal wholesale, and to steal the Xerox employees (which is what Jobs did.)

Xerox sued Apple later (when Apple was trying to quash innovation, by suing MS for using a GUI in Windows.)

Get over it, really. Apple is not Snow White.

In fact, if Xerox was as litigation-happy back in the early '80s, as Apple is today, we most likely wouldn't even remember Apple today.
 
First, its a hassle getting OS X to install on a PC.

That really depends on what hardware your trying to install it on. I remember the specs of the OS X dev systems using a P4 with HT to develop OS X and its apps in intel Flavor.

I didn't have any issues installing OS X Leopard on my HP D530 SFF with a 6800 GT AGP video card (mobo in another case) 2gb Ram, SATA HDD. It ran very well and without any issues ( i was just testing it out) i ran it for a few months non stop before i removed it from the system (since it wasn't Apple hardware). i just had to see for myself on how well or crappy OS X would run on a PC and if it had any issues over Apple hardware (which it ran flawlessly).

then there is some hardware that might run it but have allot of issues. and some that will not run it at all. it really depends on the mobo's chipsets and other hardware used.

i like and use both Mac and PC.
 
Hmm, something you think would be part of the discovery process of this lawsuit. But wait! Conveniently, Psystar "lost" that proof.

Nope. It usually works the other way. Apple needs to provide proof, not Psystar.

Apple did use the discovery process to bury Psystar. There were well over 10,000 documents produced during discovery.

What Psystar was balking at producing, was detailed financial information, which in most private companies, is, well, PRIVATE. Apple was trying to intimidate the backers of Psystar, by forcing them to come out in the open, and threatening to go after them as individuals.

Again, Psystar was not a "nice" company in many ways, but there is a larger issue at stake here, which those with Apple gods in their heads, fail to see.
 
There are billions upon billions of Windows machines, and ...

...and all but around 900 million of them are in a big trash heap in India, being pulled apart and burned for their gold and other metals.

...and IIRC, roughly 60% of the food calories consumed by humans every day is from rice. Since its the most popular, that must mean that rice tastes better than any other form of food, including troll roast; yummy, yum yum.

...and the methodology of the Hitlinks reference is sufficiently documented and well known by those that have taken the effort to look.

...and "I Want It That Way" is a song by the Backstreet Boys, who in the big scheme of corporately-manufactured bands, they historically fall slightly below the Banana Splits :rolleyes:


-hh
 
Wouldn't Psystar Bankruptcy be a win for Apple. The Suit is to stop Psystar from doing what they are doing. Bankruptcy isn't a nice friendly thing to have to you. Despite what lawyers want you to believe.
 
Wouldn't Psystar Bankruptcy be a win for Apple. The Suit is to stop Psystar from doing what they are doing. Bankruptcy isn't a nice friendly thing to have to you. Despite what lawyers want you to believe.

Apple probably wants a legal ruling for a precedent. Getting this from such a small, ineffectual company is probably a great opportunity for Apple.
 
I think you are confusing SIMILAR with EXACT. There are no PCs with the exact same hardware underneath the case in every aspect as any Mac.

If you want to go down the resistor and motherboard layouts, yes. In terms of being capable of running the same GPUs and CPUs and memory types, they're effectively the same hardware (Intel, Nvidia, ATI, etc. etc.) The point is there is nothing "propriety" about an Apple computer these days.

In dismissing Psystars counterclaims, the judge said that "Apple asks its customers to purchase Mac OS knowing that it is to be used only with Apple computers. It is certainly entitled to do so."



It is still going to court. Legal fees are only one third on Psystar's total debt that it lists in its bankruptcy filing. They are not going bankrupt solely because of the legal proceedings.

I guess you missed their second claim that the judge OK'ed for trial. The problem was the wording they used in their suit against Apple. You also seem to think one judge is the be-all final say on the matter. Trials are routinely appealed and decisions reversed. This is because in the end, a judge always is limited by his understanding of the case and personal bias. If it were not so, people would not be trying so hard to reverse things like Roe Vs. Wade. Instead of saying it stands for all time, they just want to put people in there that have different opinions about it and get them to change everything and make abortion into murder. Well, gee. At some point, it kind of defeats the whole point in getting a ruling in the first place if the court can change its mind decades later. In short, I have little faith in the U.S. justice system ever getting it right.

But to me (and of course it's still my opinion), a corporation should not be entitled to tell you HOW you can use your computer or even what you can do with their software once you buy it so long as it's not breaking any other laws. Who died and made Apple Big Brother, after all? How would you like it if you bought a Toyota and they told you cannot take the car to Goodyear for servicing...that you HAD to take it ONLY to Toyota??? That's EXACTLY what we're dealing with here. It's none of Apple's business what hardware I buy or what I do in my home wiht their computer. They are not the justice system or the police for that matter. Their part of the deal begins and ends with selling me OS X. They got their share of money and that should be the end of it. I didn't take their hardware and I don't necessarily WANT their hardware (if it's under-featured and overpriced compared to something I could get from say Dell). If they want me to buy their hardware then they should COMPETE to try and get me to WANT to buy it. It's that simple. That is Capitalism at its heart too so those saying Apple should have the right to control your life are quite frankly more socialist or even fascist in nature than I'd ever care to be. And I do support some social programs. But that doesn't mean I think the government should ever be able to tell me how to live my life if I'm not hurting anyone or breaking ethical laws. And certainly to me, there's nothing unethical about buying hardware from Dell and buying OS X from Apple and putting OS X on the Dell. Quite, the opposite, I think it's totally unethical for Apple to tell me that I CANNOT do it. Their ONLY motive in doing so is to force me to buy their product instead of Dell's product. That is clearly anti-competition and thus a violation of anti-trust laws which forbid active attempts to thwart competition. You don't have to be monopoly to try and stop all competition and that is exactly what Apple has done in its EULA. If that judge thinks that's OK then he is ignorant of anti-trust law and past decisions regarding tying one product to another one which have already been ruled illegal.
 
If you want to go down the resistor and motherboard layouts, yes. In terms of being capable of running the same GPUs and CPUs and memory types, they're effectively the same hardware (Intel, Nvidia, ATI, etc. etc.) The point is there is nothing "propriety" about an Apple computer these days.

apart from the Operating System, of course :rolleyes:
 
Here is the bottom line in this whole Psystar/Hachintosh/OSX clone battle going on right now:

OSX - by itself - as an operating system - is the probably the best overall OS available to consumers, and can easily and quite successfully compete on it's own performance/stability-wise, and commercially as a stand alone product - especially against the much inferior Windows OS offerings on the market. Even if it was to sell for as much as $299 retail, if it was an installable option for all computers - whether they be PC, or Mac, I do believe that it would slowly but surely become the dominant OS within a couple of years

Where Apple cannot compete head-on - is in the general computer hardware market - even though they still appear to have an edge - with their superior overall exterior design (my subjective opinion). Sleek looking aluminum Uni-Bodies and heavy, aluminum cheese grater towers do not change the the fact that the internal components of Apple's computers are the same, or very similar in technical capability, or quality as their PC counter-parts and are assembled in the very same countries as PC's are (sometimes even in the very same factory). The notion (heavily propagandized by Apple and AppleFlacks here on MR ) that Macs are magically made to a "BMW", or "Ferrari" higher standard" (to further flog the popular pet metaphor widely misused here on MR), and that they are "much better built" (by Jobsian elves perhaps?) - is more legend and legacy* than reality (*Apple was indeed head-and-shoulders above their PC rivals - quality-wise - in the PPC era and did warrant, IMHO, what has become well known as the "Appletax").

As an Apple Technician/Consultant, I have seen the slow and steady demise of whatever quality edge that Apple may once have held over PC's - especially so in the last few years - in favor of much more of an emphasis of style over substance. This is not to suggest that there isn't a current bevy of cheaply made, crappy PC machines available. But at least they are actually cheap also in price (sub-$500) to match.

With Apple, you also get cheaply made, craptastic, cracking plastic MacBooks that are some the most overpriced, underspec'ed, lowest quality 1K+ laptops ever to be sold. I am seeing them falling apart on my clients left and right - mainly with their HD's quickly dying, batteries failing - and with most of them now sporting polycarbonate cases that are rapidly discoloring (white models) and literally fracturing into pieces - and all of that is just within the first year. Many, many of the 24" iMacs have serious video/screen issues - mostly because of cheap LCD panels used, poor assembly, and faulty graphics cards that are frying. Apple has also made replacing/upgrading a simple thing like the HD on all of the Intel iMacs (the most common failure on any computer), nearly impossible without breaking the machine or warranty. And on and on..

Anyone thinking that just because they paid a "premium" for their Mac that they actually have any better hardware than an equivalent PC with the same specs is seriously drinking a little too much of the Apple koolaid.

This is plainly why Apple is white knuckling the OS to the hardware. Without their crown jewel (OSX) inextricably embedded into their rapidly diminishing "premium" hardware - they would have to compete on the open market on the hardware alone - and except for their very low end (iPhone/iPod), Apple would lose a sizable percentage of their market share in a very short period of time. They just could not compete with much lower priced - but similarly outfitted PC that could run OSX just as well, or better than anything that Apple is currently selling - "Premium" design notwithstanding.

So it's easy to see why so many here on MR, and other MacFlack sites get nearly apoplectic when even the slightest suggestion of any kind of a decoupling of OSX from the Apple's hardware. They know that their position within Apple (many Cuperatino Apple Inc.'ers here), or their investments in AALP shares would end up take a major hit if OSX was ever "legally" liberated from Apple's "premium" hardware. That is why most Appleflacks will reflexively take up the old IP/copywrite sword to quickly undercut any who dare to challenge Apple's OS/Hardware monopoly (and yes, it is a monopoly, but on the OS, not on the hardware - which is generally generic). But the real reason is that they know what most likely would happen if consumers had an open choice of buying OSX to run on any machine that APPLE, Dell, HP, Sony, or anyone else sold - especially with sub-1K laptops/desktops...it would most likely be bye, bye to what's left of Apple's junky, hugely overpriced MacBooks - as well as a dramatic sales decline for the overpriced, underspec'ed Mac Minis. Mid-range iMacs would most likely hold their own, but the high end MacBook Pro's (2.5K+), and the Mac Pro's across the line would also suffer steep sales declines in favor of cheaper PC alternatives.

Lastly, to all of you IP/copywrite absolutist here on MR and your fanatical adherence to Apple's IP party line (like they haven't ever, or continue to "appropriate" other lesser folk's IP): how many of you have ever received, downloaded, or somehow came to acquire something on your "premium" Mac, or Macs - that you didn't actually..shall we say... purchase? - whether it's a program, an MP3 file, a video, a copy of another competing OS (XP, or Vista) etc..? And how many of you who may have also violated Apple's own EULA by installing your sacrosant copy of OSX on more than one computer, or by obtaining a copy from another source without due compensation to Apple?
If any of you have one tiny-tiny shred of someone else IP that you did not fully compensate them for.....well that just might seriously undermine your high and holy IP/copywrite dogma to it's core. If you live by IP purity, then you should die by it as well.

Psystar might be kaput (no surprises there), but the movement to free OSX from increasingly mediocre, overpriced hardware has just begun in earnest.
Now, it's on to EFI-X as the next satan of the month for all of the AppleFlacks....
 
Lastly, to all of you IP/copywrite absolutist here on MR and your fanatical adherence to Apple's IP party line (like they haven't ever, or continue to "appropriate" other lesser folk's IP): how many of you have ever received, downloaded, or somehow came to acquire something on your "premium" Mac, or Macs - that you didn't actually..shall we say... purchase? - whether it's a program, an MP3 file, a video, a copy of another competing OS (XP, or Vista) etc..? And how many of you who may have also violated Apple's own EULA by installing your sacrosant copy of OSX on more than one computer, or by obtaining a copy from another source without due compensation to Apple?
If any of you have one tiny-tiny shred of someone else IP that you did not fully compensate them for...well that just might seriously undermine your high and holy IP/copywrite dogma to it's core.

Psystar might be kaput (no surprises there), but the movement to free OSX from increasingly mediocre, overpriced hardware has just begun in earnest.
Now, it's on to EFI-X as the next satan of the month for all of the AppleFlacks....

Every version of OS X i own i paid for. Leopard is the only OS that use to be on my G4 before the HDD died now it only runs Tiger, until i get around to install Leopard on it. the only thing i haven't bought from Apple is the hardware (bought my hardware from forums, or obtained them from school auctions).

i never have nor ever will download something i do not own
 
But to me (and of course it's still my opinion), a corporation should not be entitled to tell you HOW you can use your computer or even what you can do with their software once you buy it so long as it's not breaking any other laws. Who died and made Apple Big Brother, after all? How would you like it if you bought a Toyota and they told you cannot take the car to Goodyear for servicing...that you HAD to take it ONLY to Toyota??? That's EXACTLY what we're dealing with here. It's none of Apple's business what hardware I buy or what I do in my home wiht their computer. They are not the justice system or the police for that matter. Their part of the deal begins and ends with selling me OS X. They got their share of money and that should be the end of it. I didn't take their hardware and I don't necessarily WANT their hardware (if it's under-featured and overpriced compared to something I could get from say Dell). If they want me to buy their hardware then they should COMPETE to try and get me to WANT to buy it. It's that simple. That is Capitalism at its heart too so those saying Apple should have the right to control your life are quite frankly more socialist or even fascist in nature than I'd ever care to be. And I do support some social programs. But that doesn't mean I think the government should ever be able to tell me how to live my life if I'm not hurting anyone or breaking ethical laws. And certainly to me, there's nothing unethical about buying hardware from Dell and buying OS X from Apple and putting OS X on the Dell. Quite, the opposite, I think it's totally unethical for Apple to tell me that I CANNOT do it. Their ONLY motive in doing so is to force me to buy their product instead of Dell's product. That is clearly anti-competition and thus a violation of anti-trust laws which forbid active attempts to thwart competition. You don't have to be monopoly to try and stop all competition and that is exactly what Apple has done in its EULA. If that judge thinks that's OK then he is ignorant of anti-trust law and past decisions regarding tying one product to another one which have already been ruled illegal.

Magnus, As in all the other threads on this - you still aren't getting it.

This is NOT about the SLA between an individual user and Apple. Yes, that may be shaky legal ground in what they can actually limit the user to. You are correct there.

This is about one business possibly violating copyright, and infringing on the trademarks of another.
 
Nope. It usually works the other way. Apple needs to provide proof, not Psystar.

Apple did use the discovery process to bury Psystar. There were well over 10,000 documents produced during discovery.

What Psystar was balking at producing, was detailed financial information, which in most private companies, is, well, PRIVATE. Apple was trying to intimidate the backers of Psystar, by forcing them to come out in the open, and threatening to go after them as individuals.

Again, Psystar was not a "nice" company in many ways, but there is a larger issue at stake here, which those with Apple gods in their heads, fail to see.

I don't know if you don't know how discovery works, or if you are playing the fool. In SCO vs. IBM, IBM gave SCO's lawyer a server containing the complete source code of every single Unix version that IBM had every released. I think it doesn't get more private than that. The detailed financial information, if it was something that could reasonably help Apple with its case, was something that Psystar by law had to deliver. Of course, only to Apple's lawyers. Nobody at Apple would ever see any of it, otherwise these lawyers would most likely go to jail.

Now the thing is, as soon as a company believes that it might get sued about something, it has to keep all the relevant evidence. Again, that is the law. Psystar had to believe that it would be sued as soon as it started working on their project. So they had to keep any evidence that was ever produced, for example their detailed financial information. So they claimed they couldn't do that, they were a small business. Tough. When you make your business decisions, you have to take everything into account, including the probability that you are going to be sued for doing what you plan to do, and what it will cost you.

And Apple isn't trying to intimidate Psystar's backers, it is trying to find out who they are to sue their ass of them. If for example a major PC manufacturer were behind this, which I doubt, then Apple would go for maximum damage against them.

On the other hand, I don't think it is likely that there are backers. I think Apple had their engineers look at a Psystar box, take it apart, make an estimate how much it would cost to build and sell that box, and concluded that the price was too cheap. They then concluded that there must be some unknown backer who gives Psystar money, when the reality was that Psystar was run by a bunch of undereducated monkeys who couldn't do the maths and sold their goods at a price that would ruin them, even without losing a court case against Apple.

This is plainly why Apple is white knuckling the OS to the hardware. Without their crown jewel (OSX) inextricably embedded into their rapidly diminishing "premium" hardware - they would have to compete on the open market on the hardware alone - and except for their very low end (iPhone/iPod), Apple would lose a sizable percentage of their market share in a very short period of time.

That may be correct, but it is completely missing the point. Apple competes with the likes of Dell, HP, Acer, Toshiba in the hardware market. What everyone in a business will tell you is that you need a unique advantage that sets you apart from the rest. Apple spent about a billion dollars to create a unique advantage, and it is called MacOS X. What you are saying is like saying that my favorite football team isn't actually very good, they only win because they paid lots of money to hire the best players, and these players practice hard every day; apart from that they are not very good at all. But that misses the point: The football team is good exactly _because_ they hired good players that practice a lot, and Macs are worth their money _because_ Apple invested a billion dollars into MacOS X, where Dell invested tons of money into finding the cheapest way to build computers.

And do you really think Apple couldn't build computers that beat Dell on price? Obviously that isn't the strategy that Apple follows, and Jon Ives would probably take a week off sick if they asked him to design these computers, but do you seriously think Apple couldn't do it? Every time that Dell or someone else tries to compete with Apple on their own ground, they come up a loser. Look at various attempts at all-in-one computers trying to compete with the iMac, look at Dell's recent attempt to create a competitor against the MacBook Air, look at Microsoft's Zune. In every case, Apple sells identical hardware cheaper than its competitors do.
 
Anyone thinking that just because they paid a "premium" for their Mac that they actually have any better hardware than an equivalent PC with the same specs is seriously drinking a little too much of the Apple koolaid.

Except for the DP Mac Pro buyers, of course. :rolleyes: In any event, a level-headed rational view is that 'Yes Virginia, There Is An Apple Tax' and its not for the hardware, but that jewel of OS X.

This is plainly why Apple is white knuckling the OS to the hardware. Without their crown jewel (OSX) inextricably embedded into their rapidly diminishing "premium" hardware - they would have to compete on the open market on the hardware alone - and except for their very low end (iPhone/iPod), Apple would lose a sizable percentage of their market share in a very short period of time. They just could not compete with much lower priced - but similarly outfitted PC that could run OSX just as well, or better than anything that Apple is currently selling - "Premium" design notwithstanding.

That's merely your guess at their business plan motives. Another one is that its technically fewer headaches to sell unlocked full OS installs on the honor system instead of pedantically packing it as the OS upgrade (that it is) and untrustingly locking it down with Serial#s and Dial-in registrations: not unlike the iTunes business model, they appear to recognize that there's an upper price point limit to how much they can get away with selling that box for before the price instead encourages piracy.

So it's easy to see why so many here on MR, and other MacFlack sites get nearly apoplectic when even the slightest suggestion of any kind of a decoupling of OSX from the Apple's hardware.

For someone who claims to have been around long enough to have witnessed the 'slow and steady demise' in hardware quality, you've somehow missed the lessons-learned of the 1990s. Instead of just complaining, how about trying to actually suggest a viable business case that doesn't consist of 95% empty air hand-waving.

They know that their position within Apple (many Cuperatino Apple Inc.'ers here), or their investments in AALP shares would end up take a major hit if OSX was ever "legally" liberated from Apple's "premium" hardware.

And many non-employees ... and non-stockholders either. Care to take a survey to see which group is larger? I strongly suggest that you promptly do so before making yet another unfounded derogatory insinuation.

The simple bottom line to this is that Apple could solve their OS X "linking" problem by changing their existing boxed product of OS X: just add a serial# and license registration system to the existing $129 box and re-categorize it as an "Upgrade". And for the folks who want to insist on allowing clones, have a second (similar) box that is nearly the same thing, but whose retail price is $1,001. However, the most important question is: would this be a viable business plan?

FYI, you'll note that I made the MSRP to be a dollar over rather than a dollar under, because this puts it into a higher legal category for 'theft' when the inevitable piracy starts to occur: this is not a superior business plan IMO.


If any of you have one tiny-tiny shred of someone else IP that you did not fully compensate them for.....well that just might seriously undermine your high and holy IP/copywrite dogma to it's core. If you live by IP purity, then you should die by it as well.

IMO, the first valid thing that you've said.

Of course, perhaps if you've done more reading at MR, you would have learned that the local culture is very strong on IP and Anti-Piracy.

Perhaps this has come about because the Mac has traditionally been a domain of 'Creatives' as their customers, so many readers here have significant IP investments, and their livelihood is thus highly dependent upon the continued legal protection of IP. This also would tend to explain why they don't steal IP from others too.

Unfortunately, this isn't everyone, which means that there's still a lot of misunderstanding as to how IP rights are sold.

Simply put, if a buyer of IP wants to have more unlimited use rights, he's expected to pay (significantly) more in the marketplace. If he wants all rights (buy the Copyright), its even more. Thus, the EULA is simply the converse: it is only providing a relatively narrow use set, which allows the IP product to consequently be sold at a significantly lower price.

The way that the system is expected to work is that if you don't like the restrictive provisions of the current EULA, then don't buy it. Instead, you contact the IP owner to negotiate the set of rights that you want ... and consequently, you're expected to pay a higher price in return.

There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.


-hh
 
I guess you missed their second claim that the judge OK'ed for trial. The problem was the wording they used in their suit against Apple.

I did not miss the second claim. But the second claim has nothing to do with anti-trust or illegal tying which you seem to bring up over and over again.
You also seem to think one judge is the be-all final say on the matter. Trials are routinely appealed and decisions reversed. This is because in the end, a judge always is limited by his understanding of the case and personal bias. If it were not so, people would not be trying so hard to reverse things like Roe Vs. Wade. Instead of saying it stands for all time, they just want to put people in there that have different opinions about it and get them to change everything and make abortion into murder. Well, gee. At some point, it kind of defeats the whole point in getting a ruling in the first place if the court can change its mind decades later. In short, I have little faith in the U.S. justice system ever getting it right.

I don't think this judge has the final say, but you'll be hard pressed to find any legal scholar that thinks his ruling on the initial counterclaims would be overturned.

But to me (and of course it's still my opinion), a corporation should not be entitled to tell you HOW you can use your computer or even what you can do with their software once you buy it so long as it's not breaking any other laws. Who died and made Apple Big Brother, after all? How would you like it if you bought a Toyota and they told you cannot take the car to Goodyear for servicing...that you HAD to take it ONLY to Toyota??? That's EXACTLY what we're dealing with here. It's none of Apple's business what hardware I buy or what I do in my home wiht their computer. They are not the justice system or the police for that matter. Their part of the deal begins and ends with selling me OS X. They got their share of money and that should be the end of it. I didn't take their hardware and I don't necessarily WANT their hardware (if it's under-featured and overpriced compared to something I could get from say Dell). If they want me to buy their hardware then they should COMPETE to try and get me to WANT to buy it. It's that simple. That is Capitalism at its heart too so those saying Apple should have the right to control your life are quite frankly more socialist or even fascist in nature than I'd ever care to be. And I do support some social programs. But that doesn't mean I think the government should ever be able to tell me how to live my life if I'm not hurting anyone or breaking ethical laws. And certainly to me, there's nothing unethical about buying hardware from Dell and buying OS X from Apple and putting OS X on the Dell.

Copyright law is the basis of capitalism in an information society. To take away an authors right to control the copying of their content would be communism. It's saying that any software that you create belongs to society.

Without a license agreement for software, there is nothing to prevent you from reselling OS X without compensating Apple at all. That is wrong and provides no incentive for the creation of OS X in the first place.

That is Capitalism at its heart too so those saying Apple should have the right to control your life are quite frankly more socialist or even fascist in nature than I'd ever care to be. And I do support some social programs. But that doesn't mean I think the government should ever be able to tell me how to live my life if I'm not hurting anyone or breaking ethical laws. And certainly to me, there's nothing unethical about buying hardware from Dell and buying OS X from Apple and putting OS X on the Dell. Quite, the opposite, I think it's totally unethical for Apple to tell me that I CANNOT do it. Their ONLY motive in doing so is to force me to buy their product instead of Dell's product. That is clearly anti-competition and thus a violation of anti-trust laws which forbid active attempts to thwart competition. You don't have to be monopoly to try and stop all competition and that is exactly what Apple has done in its EULA. If that judge thinks that's OK then he is ignorant of anti-trust law and past decisions regarding tying one product to another one which have already been ruled illegal.

The point that you seem to ignore over and over again is that anti-trust laws only apply to trusts. Apple is not a trust and does not have sufficient market power to fall under these regulations.
 
The simple bottom line to this is that Apple could solve their OS X "linking" problem by changing their existing boxed product of OS X: just add a serial# and license registration system to the existing $129 box and re-categorize it as an "Upgrade". And for the folks who want to insist on allowing clones, have a second (similar) box that is nearly the same thing, but whose retail price is $1,001.

No, that would either not work, or it would be unnecessary, depending on your point of view. Psystar's argument is that they are not bound by what the license says. The license says clearly "you may install one copy of this software on one Apple-labeled computer" and Psystar believes that even with this clear statement they can install it on a Psystar computer. So if Apple puts into the license "you may install one copy of this software on one computer that already has a copy of MacOS X with a valid license installed", then Psystar would believe that even with this clear statement they can install it on a Psystar computer that has no valid copy of MacOS X installed yet.

So either the license is binding, then Psystar can't install MacOS X on their computers, no matter how you put the restriction. Or the license is not binding, then Psystar can install it on their computers anyway because they can ignore the license. Changing the terms of the license doesn't make a difference.

But lets talk about Microsoft: You can buy a Microsoft Office Family three user license for $149; probably cheaper because I searched for ten seconds only. So what stops my company from buying one Microsoft Office Family three user license for every three employees, at an average of about $50 per employee, if that license restriction (home use only, I didn't actually check the license) isn't binding?
 
But lets talk about Microsoft: You can buy a Microsoft Office Family three user license for $149; probably cheaper because I searched for ten seconds only. So what stops my company from buying one Microsoft Office Family three user license for every three employees, at an average of about $50 per employee, if that license restriction (home use only, I didn't actually check the license) isn't binding?

Companies will either limit offerings or they will employ burdensome technical methods that reduce the quality of the product and negatively impact the user's experience (Windows Activation / GenuineAdvantage). In the end, the only winners are bottom-feeders and middlemen: people who are not consumers/users and people who are not the IP creators.

I think there was/is a happy medium here. Hobbyists prevail by not forcing Apple's hand -- Apple is obligated to shareholders to protect the value of the company and the entire board would be replaced if they significantly gave away their rights with no tangible upside for investors.

Civilized countries respect the rule of law and utilize the political system to change the law when it needs changing -- not by ignoring it when it's inconvenient.
 
I think there was/is a happy medium here. Hobbyists prevail by not forcing Apple's hand -- Apple is obligated to shareholders to protect the value of the company and the entire board would be replaced if they significantly gave away their rights with no tangible upside for investors.

Which was the way everything was working before Psystar started. No doubt Apple knew about the hackentosh community and was well aware that the SLA's were being broken by the few involved with that community. They never took action because that community was too small and not a threat to their profit margins. The community, in exchange for that "blind eye" kept their work outside of the consumer sector and limited to hobbiests expermienting.

Psystar ruined the whole thing, not only by bringing the hackentosh work to the commercial stage where Apple would have no choice but to stop it, but also by stealing the work of those people and selling it as if it was their own creation. Their business model hurts everyone in the long run; Apple us undoubtably working on methods to make future OS releases more difficult to port to non Apple systems (which will hurt the legit end user and limit the hobbiests who were just having fun) and the hackentosh programers are going to be less inclined to post their work in the community (fearing it will once again be ripped off by a greedy company trying to profit without effort).

No one wins here.

What Psystar was balking at producing, was detailed financial information, which in most private companies, is, well, PRIVATE.

Except that a good deal of the financial information that Psystar could not produce was anything but detailed. The Apple lawyers were asking for how many units the company sold and how many components (in this case, retail OSX DVDs) the company purchased. As an ex-business owner, I can tell you that these are some of the most basic records any bookkeeper will keep. Any legitimate business is going to have records of these transactions because they are required by a number of government agencies. Even if Apple has not initiated this lawsuit, the BSA or the IRS would eventually have auditited the company and without these records Psystar would be in an even worse situation (major fines and possible jail time).

As for the information being private, the second that the court ordered them to produce the information they no longer had the right to keep said information private. We are, according to the laws of this country, required to produce any information that a court of law requests or be found in contempt of court.

The fact that they were unable to produce even a single sale record or a single OSX purchase record is a gigantic red flag for anyone who works in the accounting or finance industries. It generally means (and I am in no way accusing Psystar of anything here) that the company is trying to hide illegal activities inside the business.

It is very possible that their records were lost in a fire as they claim but that still does not absolve them. They are still required to produce this information, which could be reobtained by contacting their OSX DVD supplier and credit card processor, both of which will have records of all their transactions. Failure to do this is another big red flag.
 
Again, would you shut up, if there were records produced of legitimate OS purchases? Or are you just doing you shill-ing?

receipts that they bought the disks would end questions of them being two bit shoplifters as well as everything else.

receipts that could be used with cash and no name recorded (been there done it dozens of times)

but it doesn't change all the other charges against them. the only thing that will shut folks up about that is a court declaring that Apple is wrong, Psystar is right and cloning must be allowed damn Apple's wishes
 
receipts that they bought the disks would end questions of them being two bit shoplifters as well as everything else.

receipts that could be used with cash and no name recorded (been there done it dozens of times)

Not to mention it would help their defense against copyright infringement (albeit very little). If they cannot prove that they ever legally obtained OSX in the first place, they cannot have any legal defense that they did not modify copywritten source code or have any legality behind their distribution methods whatsoever.

Of course it's a minor contention having little to do with copyrights and such, but unless they can prove that they legitimately obtained their software, they would by default, be likely convicted of software piracy. Its just another of their problems that they will face after bankruptcy proceedings go through.

but it doesn't change all the other charges against them. the only thing that will shut folks up about that is a court declaring that Apple is wrong, Psystar is right and cloning must be allowed damn Apple's wishes
Which isn't going to happen with the way that EULA's (or in Apple's case SLA) are seen as contracts that, unless contain elements that are in violation of local laws, that are enforceable legally.
 
Yeah... competition. Because droves of people went for Psystar instead of Apple...

My warmest congratulations to the MORONS that have bought systems from these bankrupt thieves that wanted to profit from Apple's massive investments in R&D; may you enjoy your unsupported crappy machines for years to come! You deserve it!

And of course, this all but confirms that Psystar's objective (with probable financial backing from some disguised partners) was to test the waters and see whether unauthorized Apple-cloning would be feasible in certain markets.

Bummer alert: they are roasted now, as widely predicted in the last months; I wouldn't be surprised if the backing came from major PC manufacturers, to no avail of course...GO APPLE!
 
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