maybe because they pay for a license? Most companies pay legitimately for technology they use in their products.
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Pulse Ox Company Masimo Accuses Apple of Delaying Legal Battle to Sell More Apple Watches
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maybe because they pay for a license? Most companies pay legitimately for technology they use in their products.
As one, couldn't agree with you more! But seriously, it's quite true, whether it's years of being told you are amazing, the public thinking you are amazing, the politicians scared of you because the public think you are amazing, leads to an aura about doctors. No one was born with the skill to be a doctor, it was taught, I've seen more precise draughtsman, design engineers and sculptures than surgeons. We all have learnt. Medicine isn't that hard to study at university, they give you 5 years, and with a good score in the sciences to get in, most make it. Then it's all about how narcissistic you are, and how driven you are. Anaesthetics is the best (I'm biased) Lot's of them, always a shortage, well paid as they have to be there for surgery, anything too big goes to icu, and 80% of the work is minor.
That's pretty easy to find out, anyone who has an Apple Watch 6 could look on their watches to see (under about this watch) whether there is any 'nod to' Masimo.
Jesus.. the court hasn’t done anything yet people already judged. 🙄
I would assume company like Apple can pay much more than Masimo. That’s a big intensive don’t you think?
Which patents would that be? I'm really curious, because SpO2 isn't actually rocket science...
However, measuring SpO2 on the wrist accurately is a challenge (which is also why Apple doesn't let you measure it in just any position*) but that doesn't seem to be Massimos field of expertise in first place. Medical grade devices usually use the fingertip or some other area (ear,...) that has high blood flow close to the skin. Apple probably spent the majority of the research getting it to work properly on the wrist and not on the basics of measuring SpO2...
However, measuring SpO2 on the wrist accurately is a challenge (which is also why Apple doesn't let you measure it in just any position*) but that doesn't seem to be Massimos field of expertise in first place. Medical grade devices usually use the fingertip or some other area (ear,...) that has high blood flow close to the skin. Apple probably spent the majority of the research getting it to work properly on the wrist and not on the basics of measuring SpO2...
Masimo does manufacture and sell consumer products: MightySat and Sleep.
Masimo SET (Signal Extraction Technology) is where they have advantage, works where other pulse oximeters fail.
Masimo MightySat is the best pulse oximeter money can buy.
Many companies have tried to steal Masimo IP, for example Nonin, Nellcor and Medtronics. I can be very costly: Philips Electronics lost $467 million patent verdict to Masimo.
Apple is using off the shelf parts on it’s watch, for example in Apple Watch 4 and 5: infrared LED from Epistar, green LEDs from OSRAM and the photodiodes from OSRAM.
So what part did Apple stole from Masimo?
Algorithm?
Masimo SET (Signal Extraction Technology) is where they have advantage, works where other pulse oximeters fail.
Masimo MightySat is the best pulse oximeter money can buy.
Many companies have tried to steal Masimo IP, for example Nonin, Nellcor and Medtronics. I can be very costly: Philips Electronics lost $467 million patent verdict to Masimo.
Apple is using off the shelf parts on it’s watch, for example in Apple Watch 4 and 5: infrared LED from Epistar, green LEDs from OSRAM and the photodiodes from OSRAM.
So what part did Apple stole from Masimo?
Algorithm?
Ah! Barely started touching actual patients. Even better. Have fun in your clinical rotations. You’ll find there’s a lot to learn out there in the real world.
Exactly, it doesn't make any sense and in fact it even allows Apple to claim that their watch is also a truly clinical device! Because otherwise why bother?
If your life depends on an accurate blood oxygen you should have a real device not the Apple hack. I suspect the real value of the Apple device is it can detect changes over time in the O2 level rather than a truly accurate level.
Because they sell a lot less of theirs, they might make (a lot) more on every device they sold than by getting a small licence fee from Apple.
Been doing so since year 2. In what "real" world do you live?
My guess would be algorithms written by former Masimo Engineers now working for Apple. However, Apple clearly states the Oximeter in the AW6 IS NOT Medical Grade. This is how they are able to roll it out in the AW6 globally without certification by regions as required with the ECG function.
As we do not know who Apple hired and the status of their various ownerships as far as code goes we are speculating.
I doubt Apple will suffer anything from this. This is Masimo fearing market share loss of consumer grade oximeters more than anything, IMO.
The one in which I’ve been in clinical practice for 16 years after 8 years of postgraduate training. But hey, you’re halfway through med school so I defer to your expertise.
Exactly all the companies see Apple = $TT and hope if they sue Apple will give them some crumbs in a settlement
2 years to go is halfway in your country ? Must explain your previous posts. Best regards
Masimo has historically been a vicious litigious company, this will be a battle. They didn't invent SPO2 but came along in the later iterations of better algorithms and then began suing some big fish who actually did invent the measurement, and have been winning. They came up with newer/improved algorithms, able to cope with motion artifacts, especially in neonatal environments, then broadened their measurement portfolio over time.
Apple watch, resolving basic SPO2 in a historically poor physical location, on the back of the wrist, would require new work to get reliable results. Apple has pulled it off, and as a "consumer" trending measurement, I'm good with it.
Masimo is a predator, make no mistake about it.
Apple watch, resolving basic SPO2 in a historically poor physical location, on the back of the wrist, would require new work to get reliable results. Apple has pulled it off, and as a "consumer" trending measurement, I'm good with it.
Masimo is a predator, make no mistake about it.
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If you were that worried you wouldn't by them a watch, you'd buy a medical quality monitor.
That isn’t true at all. 95% would be low normal and certainly isn’t going to be throwing red flags. Many different variables that could cause a healthy person to have 95% O2 sat.
I’m a first year Med student. I actually joined a pretty cool program that allows us to begin clinical experience (precepting) in family medicine style practices and a few different specialties like pulmonology, EM, and a couple others. Basic stuff like doing physical exam, vitals, learning to read ECGs, imaging etc. Most Med students won’t typically get that same level of exposure until 3rd year in a lot of places so I’m excited to be getting the exposure. Can’t wait tho until I’m practicing... long road ahead.
You apparently didn't understand my post. Apple doesn't make or advertise medical grade Pulse-Ox devices. Hence, Masimo's claims are irrelevant. They would be relevant if Apple made a Pulse-Ox devices that went thru the FDA for medical measurement purposes.
Could Apple have used Masimo IP and just not deployed it the same way or pursued FDA certification?
Highly unlikely as Apple is not in business of selling medical grade devices to hospitals. They are in the consumer market selling consumer grade hardware to the average Joe.