Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPod touch Realistic Expectations for iPod Touch 3G
- Thread starter sportsfrk214
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
No. Have you actually ran a test instead of sitting inside arguing on the internet? Whats next accuse me of being all the guys on this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/738720/
I mean they are pointing out that the AGPS can be grossly off, and one of them is a moderator, and at least 2 have demi-god status. Why exactly are you scared to go take the chip out of your phone and see your phone lock to the satellites without 3G?
-Tig
radio
For those who think that FM radios are out of tune, well, I'm in Bali and Balinese radios transmit...guess what? Balinese songs! Can you find them on the Apple store? Of course not. My girlfriend has an iPod Touch but prefers her Nokia because has got a radio. Your thinking is so western centric. Wake up guys, the world is wider than you think.
For those who think that FM radios are out of tune, well, I'm in Bali and Balinese radios transmit...guess what? Balinese songs! Can you find them on the Apple store? Of course not. My girlfriend has an iPod Touch but prefers her Nokia because has got a radio. Your thinking is so western centric. Wake up guys, the world is wider than you think.
NO... just another newbie.
You should know by now why I don't think there will be GPS on the next Touch...but I would still like to hear why you think this GPS module for the iPhone is more than just a location-aware phone, and can be used as a dedicated GPS for the next Touch
it needs AGPS still...we disagree Tig! ...you're not selling me!
We'll see what happens in September...
CrackBookPro
That settles it. The next time I want to hear Balinese music I'll buy a Nokia phone.
Has anyone pointed out that to have a "find my ipod" feature you would need more than a GPS chip.... (I had a look but didn't see it anywhere).
A GPS chip only allows you to take a signal from the satellites and use a few calculations to find out where you are. In order for a "find my ipod" feature the ipod would have to communicate back with your computer, something a GPS chip isn't capable of, or would have to receive a different signal to tell it to be found/wiped - GPS can't supply this signal. This could only work if it was connected to the internet (wi-fi) or a cell network thus working on the iphone but not on an ipod touch.
I still think there will be gps though, but only if there is a camera (which is pretty much what everyone here has agreed on) to allow geotagging for iphoto integration.
A GPS chip only allows you to take a signal from the satellites and use a few calculations to find out where you are. In order for a "find my ipod" feature the ipod would have to communicate back with your computer, something a GPS chip isn't capable of, or would have to receive a different signal to tell it to be found/wiped - GPS can't supply this signal. This could only work if it was connected to the internet (wi-fi) or a cell network thus working on the iphone but not on an ipod touch.
I still think there will be gps though, but only if there is a camera (which is pretty much what everyone here has agreed on) to allow geotagging for iphoto integration.
"This could only work if it was connected to the internet (wi-fi) or a cell network thus working on the iphone but not on an ipod touch. " You do know the iPod Touch does have WIFI right?
Yeh I know it does, but it is very unlikely that it would be connected to the internet all the time like the iphone is connected to the cell network (unless you can't get signal). "Find my ipod" would work, but only if it was connected via wi-fi. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my original post.
NO... just another newbie.
You should know by now why I don't think there will be GPS on the next Touch...but I would still like to hear why you think this GPS module for the iPhone is more than just a location-aware phone, and can be used as a dedicated GPS for the next Touch
it needs AGPS still...we disagree Tig! ...you're not selling me!
We'll see what happens in September...
CrackBookPro
ROFL at calling people newbies with a join date of feb 2009. But even if you joined in 2005 people who call other newbs are douches. You certainly seem to fit the bill. Oh, and you are so wrong its not even funny. Tigger is absolutely correct, just test it instead of spouting crap in the forums (but of course you are too afraid to take your chip out and do as he says, because deep down you know you are wrong).
Oh, and remove your silly signature at the end of your posts, its extremely annoying. We know who you are, it says on the top of your post no need to sign it again with a silly smiley.
Metal backing
Frankly, I like the metal backing of the iPod Touch. To me it gives it a quality look. Plastic? No thank you.
However, my iPod is always covered in a leather case, so the back is seldom seen and never gets scratched.
I've been thankful that I had a protective covering on my iPod touch the three times that I dropped it.
Stan Kossen
Frankly, I like the metal backing of the iPod Touch. To me it gives it a quality look. Plastic? No thank you.
However, my iPod is always covered in a leather case, so the back is seldom seen and never gets scratched.
I've been thankful that I had a protective covering on my iPod touch the three times that I dropped it.
Stan Kossen
not to get into this GPS debate but i just want to say that no where have i seen something say you have to have WiFi or a cellphone signal to be able to use the GPS on the iPhone (except for on here). all i've seen is that it makes it find your location faster. all then means is without WiFi or a cellphone signal it would still find your location, it would just take longer than usual to find it.
Completely agreed. Or at least put it in the SIGNATURE area where it belongs.
wait
so i have a blackberry curve 8310, with GPS capabilities, so the question is, even if the ipod touch 3G has GPS, is the service free? (cause i never really owned a GPS device like garmin or tom, tom) but my blackberry curve has GPS and idk if i get charged, but i don't use att navigator, I use google maps.
and another thing when I use google maps on the curve, the phone states that it is determining its position by using the phone's radio waves, and idk if it uses its GPS signal, or it grabs local attena signals from att.
ipod touch 8GB, macbook, 1GB ipod shuffle, 1GB ipod nano
so i have a blackberry curve 8310, with GPS capabilities, so the question is, even if the ipod touch 3G has GPS, is the service free? (cause i never really owned a GPS device like garmin or tom, tom) but my blackberry curve has GPS and idk if i get charged, but i don't use att navigator, I use google maps.
and another thing when I use google maps on the curve, the phone states that it is determining its position by using the phone's radio waves, and idk if it uses its GPS signal, or it grabs local attena signals from att.
ipod touch 8GB, macbook, 1GB ipod shuffle, 1GB ipod nano
You should know by now why I don't think there will be GPS on the next Touch...but I would still like to hear why you think this GPS module for the iPhone is more than just a location-aware phone, and can be used as a dedicated GPS for the next Touch
it needs AGPS still...we disagree Tig! ...you're not selling me!
I was hoping for dedicated GPS integrated into the next unit. If it didn't happen I was going to buy a Garmin turn-by-turn device.
Well, I just got the Garmin for my birthday. Do you know what? I have used it extensively for 2 days and it has provided directions with amazing accuracy and clarity.
Then, I realized that it didn't have assisted GPS and I threw it out. Really, what a useless device.
/sarcasm
Why can't a gps enabled ipod touch act as a dedicated GPS device? You tell me.
Jimmy - Reply #125
...rather not argue about this, it's getting old bud ...just check reply#125 for an explanation
Before I repeat myself Jimmy, do you have any intelligent insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
If you give me an intelligent reasoning & understanding of why they are coming out with this hardware...I will fit in another long stance of mine on the GPS that is present in the iPhone 3G & 3Gs!!!rolleyes:)
CrackBookPro
p.s. Your comment of a Garmin is such a moot point that it made me hesitate to even reply back ...The Garmin you have is a dedicated GPS unit that gets a strong satellite signal, the iPhone GPS module is not spec'd like your Garmin - That is why it needs assistance
...rather not argue about this, it's getting old bud
...just check reply#125 for an explanation Before I repeat myself Jimmy, do you have any intelligent insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
If you give me an intelligent reasoning & understanding of why they are coming out with this hardware...I will fit in another long stance of mine on the GPS that is present in the iPhone 3G & 3Gs!!!
rolleyes:)CrackBookPro
p.s. Your comment of a Garmin is such a moot point that it made me hesitate to even reply back
...The Garmin you have is a dedicated GPS unit that gets a strong satellite signal, the iPhone GPS module is not spec'd like your Garmin - That is why it needs assistance 
TomTom mount supports the "no GPS for iPod" theory
Clearly GPS works without WiFi, however most GPS nav apps are less useful
without Internet since you cannot do things like download traffic info or get the
current fuel prices near you to compare. Although iPhone GPS is assisted via
wireless towers (3G not WiFi),
Fuel prices can be cached since they only change a few times per week, but
lack of traffic info can only be sidestepped by using known average speeds
on roads based on time of day (something that TomTom does leverage in their
routing).
HOWEVER, I think the fact that TomTom is doing a mount with a built-in GPS
receiver tells me that they are planning their iPhone navigator app to be an
iPod navigator app as well with the iPod connecting to their GPS receiver
via bluetooth (which is likely how the iPhone will connect to the speakers and
GPS receiver in the mount with the physical connector only be used for power).
Just my guess -- it would be cool if iPod Touch users can use the TomTom
navigator app by picking up a TomTom iPod mount.
Clearly GPS works without WiFi, however most GPS nav apps are less useful
without Internet since you cannot do things like download traffic info or get the
current fuel prices near you to compare. Although iPhone GPS is assisted via
wireless towers (3G not WiFi),
Fuel prices can be cached since they only change a few times per week, but
lack of traffic info can only be sidestepped by using known average speeds
on roads based on time of day (something that TomTom does leverage in their
routing).
HOWEVER, I think the fact that TomTom is doing a mount with a built-in GPS
receiver tells me that they are planning their iPhone navigator app to be an
iPod navigator app as well with the iPod connecting to their GPS receiver
via bluetooth (which is likely how the iPhone will connect to the speakers and
GPS receiver in the mount with the physical connector only be used for power).
Just my guess -- it would be cool if iPod Touch users can use the TomTom
navigator app by picking up a TomTom iPod mount.
F
fishcove
Guest
Before I repeat myself Jimmy, do you have any intelligent insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
CrackBookPro
p.s. Your comment of a Garmin is such a moot point that it made me hesitate to even reply back
Not all Turn by Turn products use separate GPS hardware : Navigon launches MobileNavigator
The A-GPS chip in the iPhone is more than capable of operating in autonomous mode ie no assistance by network
Network assistance helps with two things:
1 - time to fix
2 - accuracy in places where GPS typically performs poorly - urban canyons, indoors, etc
Out in the open, the GPS alone is quite capable of providing the sub-10 metre accuracy that your average consumer grade GPS provides.
So while the the 3G/wifi augmented position may be more accurate in some situations, there is absolutely no reason why an iPod Touch with the same chip could not provide GPS/navigation capabilities without any data connection whatsoever.
...A lot of this back n' forth chat about GPS on this thread, is because people are not talking Apples to Apples, and also is a personal opinion as to what you think is acceptable or not acceptable as a dedicated GPS unit
I appreciate you not taking me out of context, and also appreciate the intelligent post fishcove
I agree with 99% of what you are saying, and I do believe GPS will come in the Touch one day. But right now, the iPhone's dedicated GPS module is subpar right now. Besides the assitance helping with battery issues & speed of location, and accuracy - the iPhone needs assisted GPS to be a feasible mobile GPS solution alltogether. I really don't think at this present time, it is smart for Apple to release something that will be subpar on the Touch. Yes, if you add the GPS to the Touch, Apple will have a larger market for apps, and could be a great business opportunity, but Apple usually frowns on the idea of "subpar" products.Don't you think Apple & TomTom teamed up to make this GPS adapter hardware because they know the independent satellite signal is not as strong as they'd like on the iPhone? ...if the dedicated GPS on an iPhone did as Apple wanted, they would not spend the time & money in collaboration talks with TomTom for a GPS adapter. Here is a link from gizmodo - http://gizmodo.com/5313657/tomtoms-...pter-should-work-with-the-ipod-touch#comments
..and here is an interesting excerpt from the article - "For starters, the Car Kit includes a separate GPS receiver that performs better than the one built into the iPhone; Murray said this receiver is closer to what you'd find in a dedicated GPS unit. The TomTom app uses this receiver when your iPhone is docked in the Car Kit, allowing for improved real-time navigation, especially in cities with large buildings or in locations with lots of trees or other natural obstacles. The Car Kit also includes a built-in speaker that provides better audio quality and considerably louder output, making it easier to hear spoken directions."
FishCove, two things, network assistance also helps with battery issues on an iPhone. The second thing is a question...
What is your insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
CrackBookPro
...rather not argue about this, it's getting old bud
Before I repeat myself Jimmy, do you have any intelligent insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
If you give me an intelligent reasoning & understanding of why they are coming out with this hardware...I will fit in another long stance of mine on the GPS that is present in the iPhone 3G & 3Gs!!!
CrackBookPro
p.s. Your comment of a Garmin is such a moot point that it made me hesitate to even reply back
Thank you for the explanation. I reviewed reply #125. Point taken.
F
fishcove
Guest
FishCove, two things, network assistance also helps with battery issues on an iPhone. The second thing is a question...
What is your insight as to why TomTom is coming out with a GPS adapter?
CrackBookPro
Firstly, I think battery life is more of an issue with the iPhone, because losing your phone functionality is a lot more serious than losing your iPod functionality.
TomTom could have any number of reasons for the adapter:
1 - better performance (as you suggest)
2 - iPod Touch compatibility (as BC2009 suggested)
3 - Improved antenna (as opposed to receiver) specifically for in-car operation
4 - Justification for a price that will no doubt be much higher than the typical App store app (as is Navigon's software only solution)
My take on the A-GPS is that it is not an inferior GPS which requires assistance to provide acceptable performance. Rather, it is a standard GPS receiver that can take advantage of data from other sources when available to improve its performance in situations where GPS alone typically performs poorly (urban canyons, indoors, etc).
The chip manufacturer itself recommends its use in "Mobile Phones, Smart Phones, PDAs, PND (Personal Navigation Devices)". Obviously the latter two in most cases will not support A-GPS, meaning the GPS is intended to operate autonomously (as documented by the manufacturer as well.)
Having used the iPhone 3G GPS in areas with no wifi, no 3G and intermittent Edge, I would be happy to have an iPod Touch that provided the same performance (but I want the compass too.)
Thanks for the reply, I think altogether our biggest issue is that we have a different feeling on what is acceptable & what is not acceptable of a dedicated GPS.
The battery issue goes a step further as to what you mention. I agree with you, that losing your phone functionality is a lot more serious than losing your iPod functionality, but in reality the AGPS on the iPhone does wonders on the battery life issue - If you have no 3G or WiFi, and are in a 'shady' satellite signal area(which could happen a ton with the new Touch), the battery is going to get chewed-up looking for the satellites, and the AGPS does wonders for the iPhone in that particular situation. I would think a strategic point from an Apple engineer, would be to make this unit work well with it being independent, and not relying on outside factors like an iPhone can. And on the flipside, the sales department would say, "get it done!", no matter what, we will make a lot of money on GPS apps...
If the satellite signal was always strong with a powerful GPS module in the present iPhone, you would, of course not need AGPS - I wish the dedicated GPS in the iPhone 3G & 3Gs is all we need for a feasible mobile GPS solution. Then, I would say a GPS unit would be a 'great fit' in the next Touch. A quick solution, would be to start taking away some metal from the Touch's casing, so it has a chance of being the dedicated GPS we are all looking for. Then working on the proper spec's with the antennae coinciding with the GPS chips' needs & battery power.
I still think there is some R&D to be had, because the dedicated GPS in an iPhone 3G & 3Gs obviously needs help...Maybe, the R&D is going on now
...I hope & wish!Also, try not to take this the wrong way, but don't always believe what a manufacturer states
I want a GPS as well on the next Touch, but I want one that works well, is accurate and efficient, and isn't going to drain my battery because of improper specs... If they make one for the next Touch, and it does not give me an acceptable dedicated GPS - you just made me, the consumer, opt out of purchasing an amazing device...but, nonetheless, that is my personal situation, and Apple is on the whole, looking at a bigger picture.
...I guess, we will have to wait & see
CrackBookPro
F
fishcove
Guest
I would think a strategic point from an Apple engineer, would be to make this unit work well with it being independent, and not relying on outside factors like an iPhone can.
...
If the satellite signal was always strong with a powerful GPS module in the present iPhone, you would, of course not need AGPS - I wish the dedicated GPS in the iPhone 3G & 3Gs is all we need for a feasible mobile GPS solution. Then, I would say a GPS unit would be a 'great fit' in the next Touch. A quick solution, would be to start taking away some metal from the Touch's casing, so it has a chance of being the dedicated GPS we are all looking for. Then working on the proper spec's with the antennae coinciding with the GPS chips' needs & battery power.
CrackBookPro
With all due respect to Apple's engineers, they are not the ones who need to worry about making the GPS work well. GPS chipset manufacturers have advanced the state of the art in three areas, size, performance and power consumption, specifically for devices like the iPhone AND the iPod Touch.
The reason assisted GPS exists is not to improve the performance of low spec GPS devices. It exists because people use their phones in places where no GPS works well - indoors. The need for accurate location services in areas of poor GPS performance has driven the development of assisted GPS technology, but it does not necessarily mean that A-GPS without assistance is any worse than stand-alone GPS.
I was involved in the development of a handheld GPS device a few years back, and, interestingly, it was the *addition* of a metal plate, acting as ground plane, that enhanced the effectiveness of the antenna and, as a result, the performance of the receiver.
All this GPS discussion came about because many people of the Google Maps generation seem unable to differentiate between GPS functionality and internet-based mapping/location services. Obviously mapping and navigation do not require an internet connection. Nor does a standard GPS receiver require assistance for this purpose.
This is all I want in the iPod Touch. I don't care what hardware they use to achieve it.
As you say, we'll just have to wait and see.