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Errrrr no. Apple could not make the iPhone the thickness of a credit card

And why is that, exactly? Well, maybe not the thickness of an actual credit card (< 1 mm), but around 2-3 mm should be easy enough. It probably wouldn't be very good, but boy, it would be thin.

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Do we want "good enough" graphic cards when we could have better graphics cards? Do we want "good enough" CPUs when we could have better CPUs?

Yes! I definitely would want a good enough CPU and a good enough GPU on my phone, as opposed to having to pay good money and waste precious battery on specs that have no bearing on any real life use case what so ever.

There is obviously then the risk associated with that that got Nokia, i.e. not giving even good enough but outright outdated and underspecced components. But having "bleeding edge" components just for the sake of having bleeding edge components is such a waste.
 
technology evolves should everything stay the same thickness? they will continue to get smaller thats just what happens.

so what is the point of diminishing returns? Do you see value in a paper thin phone? If so, where do you go from there? Seriously...I am normally on the pro Apple side of things, but this is one fixation they have that I just don't get.

A capacity of 2,100 mAh for the iPhone 6's battery would put it below competing phones such as the Samsung Galaxy S5 (2800 mAh) and the HTC One M8 (2600 mAh). However, Apple's traditionally tight hardware and software integration will likely contribute to a more robust overall battery life, as iOS 8 will most certainly be optimized for the iPhone 6.

So then why not just engineer it with a 2800 mAh battery and blow away the competition on a key feature? Amazingly, the one area where they could derive a measurable value, shrinking the unused bezel area, they still have a ton of white space in.

If you continue to shave off thickness, you go past the point of diminishing returns to where the phone actually isn't comfortable in your hand. I would imagine that point will be reached for some people with this model. I have never heard anyone complain that an iPhone is too thick. Even with the 4s my wife, kids and I have. I do however constantly hear complaints about battery life. I think it is an engineering pride thing with them more than any practical reason for making it thinner in lieu of blowing out the competition on battery life.
 
Then you are, by definition, a fan boi.

Apple has lost touch with reality and consistently crippled their machines for the almighty design-God Jony Ive. Just look at the new iMacs and how you can barely add ram to any of them anymore.

Look at the new Mac Pro; it is an overpriced G4 Cube from a decade ago. The computer still has the same problems the Cube had then - a major lack of expandability (unless you fork out as much for the computer again on Thunderbolt peripherals).


While slimness is a desirable trait in terms of ergonomics and aesthetics, there is a fine line between being practical and impractical. Apple has crossed over to the impractical side for a lot of their products now. EDIT: or maybe it is practical...for them and their share holders. Making something small and non upgradable leads to more sales because everyone needs to upgrade sooner than they normally would.

I don't care about the Mac Pro nor the iMac, so I wont bother commenting on them. Having said that I do own a MacBook and by MY standards and most people's on this forum as well as a couple more college students it is the best all-around laptop currently on the market. Furthermore I have no clue what you mean by a fan-boi by "definition" because the word fan-boi is not in the dictionary, but then again thats a fat book and who has time to read it, right?; Certainly not you.

I have no idea what makes you think you KNOW what ergonomics and aesthetics are and where exactly the "fine" line is, but excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

The only one out of touch from reality I believe is you.
 
It absolutely blows my mind that people refuse to see the difference between buying a phone that comes 1-2mm thicker from Apple and having to use a battery case or carry around an external battery at all times. What is going on inside your head that you think those are reasonable solutions?

Apple's competitors are literally airing ads that make fun of how ****** iPhone battery life is, meanwhile you and Jony Ive won't stop until you have an iPhone that can chop vegetables.
I see the difference. My external battery I can choose to leave at home sometimes. If someone doesn't need it at all they don't have to purchase it. The extra 1-2mm of thickness I would have to carry around all the time. That's what goes on inside my head, and the fact that your mind is blown by it is just an added bonus.
 
Yes, but this is on a new iPhone. In a year, the battery will have lost at least 10% of its capacity, maybe more considering the heavy use you are giving it. So a year from now it probably won't last through the day. Two years from now and the battery will be even worse and perhaps an updated OS will be hitting it harder as well. Then three years from now you will have a real problem. iPhones are so strong and so well supported that one should expect to get at least three years of use from them, maybe even four if they don't get dropped. But in that case I doubt it is four years with the original user.

What I do is I replace the battery after about a year and a half. That seems almost necessary with the phones that have been made and with pretty heavy use.


I get what you're saying, but in my case I never own a phone for that long. I always get the latest models that are released. So I will be getting rid of this 5s and getting the 6 in a couple months and then again the 6s or whatever comes out. If you keep your phone that long you should expect to replace the battery at least once.
 
Actually, I can't remember the last time the 5s lasted me a whole day. It usually dies down around 4pm, if I don't use an external charger.

The problem is, there is only so much optimisation you can do before the laws of physics take over.

A 4.7inch screen, no matter what optimisation iOS8 has, will take up power. Will an 1800mah or 2100mah battery last as long as an Android phone with a comparable screen, having a 3000mah battery? No. It just isn't possible to take away the power draw of the screen in software.

Of course, tasks can be optimised and the CPU can be underclocked so CPU processing tasks take less power.
Try this: Restart your phone, disable Background Refresh and put your iPhone in airplane mode and don't use it for anything and it will last quite a number of days (you don't have actually wait for multiple days, just let sit like for several hours and watch battery percentage drop and extrapolate from there).

The point of this being that the battery is only drained at a significant rate if the phone is performing any actual 'tasks'. I can drain my phone in a few hours with the right task but my normal usage puts the phone at somewhere between 0 and 60% at the end of the day, with me dipping below 5% maybe once per month with 20 to 30% remaining being the most common outcome.

Different people perform different tasks and thus can have wildly different battery life. When people express disbelief at reports by others that their iPhones might easily last a full day, they simply don't appreciate the huge differences in battery consumption of different tasks (where one can differentiate between performing the same task in different network environments).

I very certain that I could make your battery last several more hours by simply cutting out (or modifying) the single task with the highest battery consumption. If you get vastly less battery life than some other people (incl. me for example), you should see this as an opportunity to figure out what is different between you and, eg, me to see if can modify an aspect of your usage to noticeably improve your battery life. Maybe streaming a one-hour podcast uses twice as much power as downloading it first and then listening to it. Maybe there is an app with a lot of background activity that you don't really need to be able to run in the background. Maybe there is an app using a lot of location data that you could shut down.

Optimisation is not just about performing a specific task more efficiently (eg, playing audio), it is also about selecting which tasks to perform and how frequently. The GPS radio is one of the biggest energy consumer and so is the display but also the CPU. The cell and Wifi radios, at least in earlier models, could eat through a lot of battery (we still have the option to switch off 3G or 4G depending on the model). One rogue app using GPS can cut your battery life by a factor of ten, a much larger variation then the difference in battery capacity between 2000 and 3000 MAh.

No matter how large the battery is, there will always be someone for whom it is not large enough. One cannot take one datapoint (in terms of phone usage), ie, you, and base a design decision on that. Of course, you are far from alone, but whether you represent the 50%, 90%, or 95% percentile (in terms of how many iPhone users make it through the day) is difficult to say, though to me it feels as if I here or know of more people that make it through the day than those that don't. Somebody who doesn't make it through a day is always more likely to talk about it, then somebody who does.

But let's say you represent the 80% percentile. You could see this as 20% of users not making it through the day and consider this too high a number for Apple to accept. Or you could see this as an opportunity to find a way of using your device that achieves what 80% of people achieve, making it through a day.
 
so what is the point of diminishing returns? Do you see value in a paper thin phone? If so, where do you go from there? Seriously...I am normally on the pro Apple side of things, but this is one fixation they have that I just don't get.



So then why not just engineer it with a 2800 mAh battery and blow away the competition on a key feature? Amazingly, the one area where they could derive a measurable value, shrinking the unused bezel area, they still have a ton of white space in.

If you continue to shave off thickness, you go past the point of diminishing returns to where the phone actually isn't comfortable in your hand. I would imagine that point will be reached for some people with this model. I have never heard anyone complain that an iPhone is too thick. Even with the 4s my wife, kids and I have. I do however constantly hear complaints about battery life. I think it is an engineering pride thing with them more than any practical reason for making it thinner in lieu of blowing out the competition on battery life.

I totally hear you there. Reducing the bezels is more important for me than making it thinner. Especially since the 4.7" iphone very well may be larger than 5" android devices. A larger battery would likely blow android's recent gains out of the water as well.
 
Yes! I definitely would want a good enough CPU and a good enough GPU on my phone, as opposed to having to pay good money and waste precious battery on specs that have no bearing on any real life use case what so ever.

Trying to imply that bigger battery will make an iPhone 6 cost more is just spin. At the volumes Apple buys it's parts, the difference between a 2,100mAh battery and- say a 3,000mAh battery would probably be pennies at most… certainly not enough to warrant the (implied) price hike of the phone.

The unique benefits of an A8 will probably not be tapped until about iPhone 11. So if "good enough" is really good enough for you, you don't need an iPhone 6. An iPhone 4 or 5 will still run everything well.
 
Thank you.

Your estimates are on the next iPhone are interesting.

Anandtech shows the 'tiny' battery in the 5s competes quite well against the 3000 mAh Android flagships.

Image

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More details here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7903/samsung-galaxy-s-5-review/5

I think a bump from the current 1,560 mAh to 1,810 mAh would put he iPhone close to par with those flagships and 2,100 mAh would exceed them.

I guess we'll know for sure when the thing is released.

Well, it's because iphone has 'tiny' screen and other phone has about 3 times the pixels to fuel vs the iphone.
 
Trying to imply that bigger battery will make an iPhone 6 cost more is just spin.

I am not trying to imply that, but even if it did, I'd gladly pay for more juice in the battery.

The unique benefits of an A8 will probably not be tapped until about iPhone 11. So if "good enough" is really good enough for you, you don't need an iPhone 6. An iPhone 4 or 5 will still run everything well.

Alas, Apple does not make an iPhone 4 or 5 with a properly sized screen. Although I'm afraid that this will be the case with the 6 as well, so my money is likely going elsewhere in any case.
 
OK Zipa, I'm different than you. I'd like to buy the iPhone 6 and am hoping for the bigger 5.5" screen.

AND I'd like it to come with latest & greatest rather than "good enough" hardware.

AND I'd especially like it if Apple would seize this opportunity of increased width & height to significantly jack up battery life so I won't need to also buy a third-party battery case to make it work well for my needs. They'll have the physical space. The whole market expects wider and taller, so no one should be surprised. It's a great opportunity to leap way over all competitors in this particular feature (too).

I don't expect it to happen. Instead, I expect that opportunity to be squandered in the name of "thinnest iPhone ever" with "about the same battery life". But for now- while it's a rumor and thus anything can happen- I'll prefer to hope that Apple decided that the 5s is pretty close to thin enough and what a good-sized segment of our customers desire is longer battery life.
 
My i5 battery lasts me almost all day. My two best friends have androids. all I'm going to say is my phone is almost exactly 2 years old and I've seen my best friends/roommates have to carry droid chargers with them for the last 6 months if not longer. my battery doesn't last as long as it used too but android batteries die faster and that's a fact. not just drain faster but the don't hold a full charge for very long either.

I have no problem with this increase in the i6. I work at a desk for about 4 of the 9 hours in a day so I use a computer. on a Friday night by 2 AM I'm down to 20%. and I text all day, email and FB. so if you guys are mad because you play games and watch Netflix on yor phone for 10-15 hours a day you need a hobby or a better job.
 
so what is the point of diminishing returns? Do you see value in a paper thin phone? If so, where do you go from there? Seriously...I am normally on the pro Apple side of things, but this is one fixation they have that I just don't get.
Maybe not paper thin. Poster board thin, perhaps, and rollable, so you could put it in your pocket.

And where to go from there? Wearable? A phone in your ring with a holographic display? Implantable? Interfaced directly to your brain? Often when you go as far as you can go with a particular form factor, a new form starts to emerge.

Someday soon we'll look around at the crazy, wacky, groovy, hep cat kids with their "phones" that we can't even see, and shake our heads the way our grandparents shook their head at us with our newfangled, totally unnecessary flip phones (because we were ushering in the end of the world as they knew it).
 
I get what you're saying, but in my case I never own a phone for that long. I always get the latest models that are released. So I will be getting rid of this 5s and getting the 6 in a couple months and then again the 6s or whatever comes out. If you keep your phone that long you should expect to replace the battery at least once.



Now that's wasting money but your the type of person these Companies love! I like to see my bank accounts and investments grow! Now that's exciting!:cool:
 
No I don't. And I understand that people with the experience you describe thinks I'm an idiot who want slim phone over better battery life.

I wrote it in another comment that I think the real issue people have is bad cell coverage. I don't live in US but from what I've read all over the internet is that US carriers do the minimal amount for their customers. I used a different carrier for a while and even with 3G/LTE coverage and several dots i the display I got much worse battery life. When I switched back it was good again. I know other people who also found that bad cell coverage is devastating for the battery life.

You can think that all you want, but I spend my day blanketed in four bars of LTE coverage, as does everyone else I know here in the DC area. Get everyone, to the last man and woman, agrees with me when I asked them if they would rather have a phone that lasted twice as long on the battery. Everyone.

I keep hearing that these forum users our power users, and so this is the only place where you are likely to find someone complaining that their phone dreams the battery too fast. My real world experience, which involves talking to lots and lots of people about their phones because that's what I do for a living, I help people with their technology needs, shows me that literally the only place where you will find someone who does not want to better battery life is here on this forum.

Simply making the iPhone as thick as the for S was instead of making it thinner than the five ass will easily double the battery life, and it will weigh down no one's pants. I would happily pay an extra hundred dollars for that.

The easy response to that will be that I should go out and buy a battery case. I already have, the Mophie air, and it makes my phone easily triple its original volume. That is the problem. Only Apple can make a phone that games maybe 2 mm in thickness but also games 50% in battery life. An external case has two extra layers of plastic in addition to the battery which makes for an extremely inefficient addition to the battery life.

I apologize for any dictation mistakes, I dictated this and didn't have time to look back.
 
OK Zipa, I'm different than you. I'd like to buy the iPhone 6 and am hoping for the bigger 5.5" screen.

So would I, but Apple sure is making it hard enough. And looking at what the competition is pumping out, I'm becoming less and less convinced that Apple can match that. But it's going to be an interesting fall.
 
technology evolves should everything stay the same thickness? they will continue to get smaller thats just what happens.

But the screens get bigger and the overall device size grows. They just get thinner so they are harder to hold and easier to drop.
 
If Apple is going to do wireless charging for the iWatch, I really hope they figured out a way to do it for this phone too.




Palm pre baby !!! Miss that phone!! Tech has been their for years! It as simple as magnetic electrical contact on the back of the inside! Ok, where's my millions :eek:
 
Are you really arguing that a device with a 3000 mAh battery lasting 10 hours is better than a device with a 2000 mAh one also lasting 10 hours?

This is hypothetical I know, but if it comes to rumors everything is.

I just wanted to make clear, that a bigger battery doesn't result necessarily in a better device. Hence, saying the iPhone 6 was bad, if it comes with less than input some random number here mAh is too simple.

Your response appears to have nothing to do with my post. I am guessing you are responding to someone else?

Anyway, what I said is that I was amazed that the original posters top concern was how long it took to charge his battery. Clearly, the 45 minutes it takes to charge the battery to full must be far less important than the extra three hours or four hours of battery life you can get out of that last 10 minutes of charging if Apple were to include a bigger battery.

If they put in a bigger battery, you could use the same amount of charging time and met the same amount of usage time. But those of us who actually need the extra battery life could charge our phones for 45 minutes instead of 30, or whatever, and be good. The fact is, most people are not in a huge rush to charge their phone. He time it takes to charge a battery, as long as it is less than the eight hours we spend in bed, is trivial for almost everyone in every circumstance. Because you can always pull your charger off the phone before it is at 100% and you will still have Game the same amount of charge that you would have on a smaller battery, it's just that the percentage that you read will look smaller, which doesn't matter in the least.
 
Or perhaps he's part of the population that uses his phone a lot until very late in the day and will have to charge the phone more than one time to satisfy such usage. Perhaps it's so mind-boggling for you to kinda understand that many people have such busy lifestyles, hence charging time is kinda important to them. I guess Apple just needs to conduct courses about lifestyle diversity as well just because so obviously some people miss that fact.

LOL! I am that guy that has that busy schedule. I can't really believe that you think you would rather have a smaller battery that charges more quickly instead of a larger battery that DOESN'T require you to charge it at all in the late afternoon. And even though I already said it in a post after this one I will repeat it. Just because the battery is larger does not mean you have to charge it for long. If you charge a larger battery for the same 30 minutes that you charge a smaller battery, you will get the same amount of battery life into that battery. So having a smaller battery charged 100% is no more helpful than having a double size battery charged 50%. It's not very complicated, I feel like I'm talking to a 2nd grader.
 
Someone already asked it, but I can't seem to remember seeing any answers. So, what exactly would a 1 mm thinner phone allow you to do that you can not do now? Or what other specific benefits would you be getting from having a phone that is 1 mm thinner than your current phone?
 
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