Report: Sideloading in Europe Will Still Involve App Review and Fees

[Amazing Iceman]

Dev tools are not free, the App Store is not free either. 30% is also not little.
Imagine being Tim Cook and losing 30% of your money. Imagine being poor and at the bottom end and losing 30% of the little you have, it will probably hurt you even more because you lapse out of minimum living standards.

And what was the initial investment? $100.00 for a whole year!

Remember when Visual Studio and MSDN costed thousands of $$$ ?
Small developers couldn't afford it.
Also, small developers pay much less than 30%.

So let's say you sell $1000 in apps in a year, you pay Apple $300 and you keep $700.00.
$300/year is nothing compared to the actual cost of operations and maintenance of your own Apps Store or website, plus having to pay 3% or more to your payment processor.
If you don't do it yourself, you'll have to hire someone to take care of it. How much would it cost you?

Apple doesn't charge you a penny if you don't charge for your app. your business may benefit in many ways by having a free app available at the App Store (Advertising, exposure, value added services to your clients, etc.). All that for free.
If you make profit, well, share it. There wouldn't be profit without the App Store.

Now, are you expecting another App Store to distribute your app for free? That's what it seems some people are daydreaming about these days. Good luck with that.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Firstly, Apple does not legally need to justify their fees. No corporation does, really. There’s not a “fair” fee, or a profit cap. Those things just don’t exist.

Spotify also does not need to justify its subscription fees to any court, or to justify the royalties it pays. Those are commercial issues decided by the market — if the cost of subscriptions is too high, people will move to competing services, and if the royalties are too low, record labels will withhold their IP.

Similarly, app review and commissions are part of Apple’s terms of doing business on the iOS platform. Companies don’t need to participate (just like they’re doing with Apple vision pro, they could go web-only).

That is separate from the idea of allowing competition in digital storefronts. Apparently that’s all the DMA seems to cover - letting developers seek alternatives with better shopping experiences, etc. It doesn’t require Apple to completely change their business model.

Secondly, Apple has explained that, among other things, AppStore fees go towards general platform maintenance and the free OS updates users receive for several years after purchasing a device. That is the business model they have chosen.

Of course, it is profitable, but that is perfectly okay. The law does not cap corporate profits or require certain businesses to be run at-cost as a public benefit.

People don't mind getting a glass of wine at a restaurant while paying the price of a bottle. That's about 600% markup in some cases.
Who pays all those employees maintaining the App Store infrastructure?
And of course, there needs to be a profit too. Nothing abnormal here.

Don't bite the hand of your Business Partner.

 

[MilaM]

People don't mind getting a glass of wine at a restaurant while paying the price of a bottle. That's about 600% markup in some cases.
Who pays all those employees maintaining the App Store infrastructure?
And of course, there needs to be a profit too. Nothing abnormal here.

Don't bite the hand of your Business Partner.

No one would be complaining about reasonable fee's for app store services.

It's funny, but even some Apple executives thought they were too high. There are E-Mails about this in court documents that were published during the Epic trial.

 

[dwaite]

Maybe they do this where you live. In Europe third-party capsules are available. Not sure how popular they are.

For their previous (OriginalLine) machines, which are more popular in Europe. For the Vertuoline machines (launched in 2014) you have only Nespresso-manufactured pods and reusable pods of dubious quality.

 

[rjp1]

I hope this isn’t their actual plan. They are just playing games if so.

I hate to say it, but Apple needs to be broken up.

 

[darngooddesign]

That doesn't sound like it will meet the EU's requirements. How is Apple going to review and approve apps outside of the App Store? But whatever decision Apple makes probably has been discussed with and approved by EU regulators.

 

[rjp1]

View attachment 2340640

This isn’t about stores. This is about installing an app on your pc (iPhone) without going through a store. So a better graphic would be the percent that is charged for Windows - 0%, macOS - 0%, Xbox - 0%, etc.

 

[Ctrlos]

I am amused that you think Apple does QA on an app. They insure apps don’t use forbidden APIs, they don’t infringe on Apple products and a few other things their tools can automatically detect. Apps are still chock full of bugs.

They found bugs I missed.

 

[makitango]

I am not making any judgment claims. My point is that some people talk about side loading as if it won't completely change the app distribution model. I believe it is more likely that users will have to visit multiple platforms to download, update, and purchase iOS apps.

There will be a bunch of unintended consequences. for example, I predict that small developers will be ghettoized in the App Store after all the large developers leave the marketplace. To address your direct question, what does the landscape look like for third-party developers on "actual computers"? It is not as profitable an environment because the iOS App Store model has been an unqualified boon for third-party software distribution.

We will have to wait and see what the landscape looks like after the environment is changed by government agencies' actions, which have been influenced by large developers lobbying for changes to Apple and Google's monetization policies.

The small devs are already burrowed udner all the big devs in the App Store, plus the big players also rent the few advertising spots which happen to take up the majority of the screen space.
I think it would actually help the small devs if some of the big players moved out of the already too small a flat.

The only people demanding this and other features from android are android fans. Most iOS users don’t care.

That's like saying that every non-Republican is a socialist.
Some of us are simply consumers and not fans of anything.

And what was the initial investment? $100.00 for a whole year!

Remember when Visual Studio and MSDN costed thousands of $$$ ?
Small developers couldn't afford it.
Also, small developers pay much less than 30%.

So let's say you sell $1000 in apps in a year, you pay Apple $300 and you keep $700.00.
$300/year is nothing compared to the actual cost of operations and maintenance of your own Apps Store or website, plus having to pay 3% or more to your payment processor.
If you don't do it yourself, you'll have to hire someone to take care of it. How much would it cost you?

Apple doesn't charge you a penny if you don't charge for your app. your business may benefit in many ways by having a free app available at the App Store (Advertising, exposure, value added services to your clients, etc.). All that for free.
If you make profit, well, share it. There wouldn't be profit without the App Store.

Now, are you expecting another App Store to distribute your app for free? That's what it seems some people are daydreaming about these days. Good luck with that.

There are plenty of dev tools available, many open-source and free, during all ages of the internet.
As for Apple "inventing" things: Are you paying Oracle for owning the JavaScript language which you would use for coding? No, of course not. We also don't pay Windows when we write some code or pack an .exe.
There is also zero advertising or exposure provided by having your app on the App Store. Exposure and real competition was there before they had their visual overhauls targeted at advertising, which hid actual rankings and review-based lists of apps behind layers and layers of "featured" cards.
It doesn't matter if your app is the best because only the ones which pay extra for advertising will be visible to the user.

It's funny, but even some Apple executives thought they were to high. There are E-Mails about this in court documents that were published during the Epic trial.

Yeah, none of the Apple defenders mention that in here.

 

[Ctrlos]

So where should adult content be? Should we all walk to the video store again?

If by adult content we are talking that of a sexual origin why should it exist at all? I’m not talking provocative art or stuff that’s useful in a relationship; I’m talking raw porn. It serves no purpose, is abusive to women, addicts men at a terribly young age and does not let them go. It’s like a drug which is constantly free and you never have to pay for. And at no point does it depict the actual intimacy that exists at the heart of a healthy relationship.

 

[Ctrlos]

If you are the landlord of the equity where Costco sells. You can end the contract and kick them out.

And Amazon could very well kick Apple from their data centres.

 

[makitango]

I hope this isn’t their actual plan. They are just playing games if so.

I hate to say it, but Apple needs to be broken up.

I wouldn't go that far, that indeed would be kind of socialist maybe. They are not infringing on the constitution of any nation that comes to my mind right away and even if they were, just leave that nation then.

If by adult content we are talking that of a sexual origin why should it exist at all? I’m not talking provocative art or stuff that’s useful in a relationship; I’m talking raw porn. It serves no purpose, is abusive to women, addicts men at a terribly young age and does not let them go. It’s like a drug which is constantly free and you never have to pay for. And at no point does it depict the actual intimacy that exists at the heart of a healthy relationship.

I think that really depends. Also, this is about open information and Apple not parenting users' choices and taste.
Also, adult content is as diverse as a zoo or shopping center. When I think of that word, raw or abusive content doesn't come to mind.
I think that's also a similar example to "everyone who sideloads just wants emulators and become a pirate", which simply is not true. Our city's main station is in the center and everyone walks through it, and most don't even go to the trains.
Not everything is how we think it is.

 

[vipergts2207]

If by adult content we are talking that of a sexual origin why should it exist at all? I’m not talking provocative art or stuff that’s useful in a relationship; I’m talking raw porn. It serves no purpose, is abusive to women, addicts men at a terribly young age and does not let them go. It’s like a drug which is constantly free and you never have to pay for. And at no point does it depict the actual intimacy that exists at the heart of a healthy relationship.

Oooh dictate my experience harder, daddy Apple.

Seriously, nobody needs you or Apple dictating what’s acceptable media, unless it gets into illegality such as CP.

 

[AiPone12mini]

I am waiting Telegram FOSS mod with sideloading so Stories are history(removed) and other apps too that Apple has banned officially like prison guard watching slaves to obey.

 

[makitango]

I am waiting Telegram FOSS mod with sideloading so Stories are history(removed) and other apps too that Apple has banned officially like prison guard watching slaves to obey.

I think sideloading in authoritarian countries would also do a service to citizens who don't get to enjoy the human rights their countries have actually signed on in the UN charter.

 

[ttyRazor]

I think Spotify, Epic etc were duped by the media which created the idea that the commissions/fees would not be allowed. The media fabricated that nonsense to create more drama of course.

I don’t think it was all the media, but it was a failure of imagination to assume that Apple wouldn’t just shift where the revenue got collected. It’s ultimately the license to use Xcode, code signing and their APIs, they just happened to charge for it through App Store fees. Even if the EU squashes every conceivable loophole, they’ll then start charging way more for developer tools access or something else crucial.

 

[makitango]

I don’t think it was all the media, but it was a failure of imagination to assume that Apple wouldn’t just shift where the revenue got collected. It’s ultimately the license to use Xcode, code signing and their APIs, they just happened to charge for it through App Store fees. Even if the EU squashes every conceivable loophole, they’ll then start charging way more for developer tools access or something else crucial.

From Bard and ChatGPT:
The Apple Developer Program fee has been $99 per year since 2008, when it was introduced alongside the App Store. Before that, there was no annual fee for developing apps for Apple devices. However, developers were still required to pay a $100 fee to submit each app to the App Store for review. This fee was waived in 2008 when the annual membership fee was introduced.

 

[BrightDarkSky]

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Good try, but these different markets act differently. This is a scrub way of pointing a finger and saying "hey they do it too"

You might want to wise up on these different markets before you post stuff like this, this is embarrassing. These are not new arguments and comparisons they've been going around for the last 4 years or so, there is data that you can read that you can understand this better.

Sheesh... apple ripoff corpo defenders, what a sad position to take... lile apple loves you or is your friend. Pathetic. 😯

 

[d686546s]

"Gatekeeper" is a company, not just some branch. There's "core platform service" in "gatekeeper" if you want to go deeper into the mess of DMA.

Why even discuss this crap, it's clearly a legal construct, created by politicians to bypass judicial system when assigning "bad guys" in economy. Benefits are (for lobbyists) you don't really even have to be a bad guy anymore, don't even have to infringe any anti-trust laws. And you can appeal only to EU commission, which is by far not a legal court. It is as far from free market paradigm as it can be.

That's ... how legislation works? Where do you think anti-trust laws come from? Yes, case law exists, but it's the prerogative of the legislature to make and amend laws. That's not "bypassing" the judicial system, that's how the system is supposed to work.

 

[SpotOnT]

Harmonyos is/was based off android and up until recently used android apps. It’s still largely irrelevant outside of china

Very true.
It is still a major - and third largest - phone OS though. I mean one can also argue the iPhone is largely irrelevant outside of North America. The iPhone has a 5-20% market share in most the world, and really is only a major player in the US/Canada.

 

[QuarterSwede]

View attachment 2340640

Once again this is making the rounds. And once again, physical stores make no where near 30%. They wish they did!

 

[d686546s]

Very much doubt Apple would risk that. Sounds like they’ve already discussed it with EU officials and presumably got tentative approval.

The article mentioned that apple was having meetings with EU representatives. I am sure they presented their idea?

It only says that Apple has "discussed" its plans with Commission officials, not what, if anything, those officials had to say. It's entirely possible that they haven't commented in great detail on draft plans, or that they are unlikely to be compliant.

Indeed, the following suggests that the Commission hasn't properly reviewed the plans because no final package has been provided.

Maybe you should have read the source article:

"Apple hasn’t provided a final package describing its solution to the commission or tested its plans with market participants.

Once it does, the commission will review the full package to look at whether it will make the market more open and contestable, and whether the company’s plans meet all the individual provisions of the law, according to a person familiar with its plans."

MacRumors’ reporting tends to be somewhat …selective.

Now just to be clear, I don't know whether the approach as described is compliant or not. Ultimately this will be a question for regulators and the courts.

 

[BaldiMac]

Once again this is making the rounds. And once again, physical stores make no where near 30%. They wish they did!

Depends on the store. Big box stores like Walmart might have lower margins, but small businesses usually markup wholesale prices by 30-50%.

 

[macfacts]

Legal monopoly, yes.

All these _investigations_ into Apple's behavior are not illegal.

 

[Wowereit]

and Meta is planning to launch a system to download apps directly from ads.​

Let's make ads even more annoying and cancerous, lol.