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Report: Sideloading in Europe Will Still Involve App Review and Fees

MacBuddyz said:
There's this funny thing in social norms called mutual respect. Someone provided you with entertainment or useful info, why'd you take his revenue in return.
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If content creators want their sponsor blocks being watched, they can make them well integrated in the video and engaging. If a part of the show is not engaging, why would a viewer be compelled to watch it? This is true for whatever part of the video is not compelling to watch, be it a sponsor block or whatever.

Anyway, you were arguing the poster that wanted to skip the block is a "thief": now you are arguing is "being disrespectful". Those are two very different things, even assuming any of the two have merit, which I think do not.

Ultimately content creators need to make the parts of the video they want to be watched to be engaging as there is no legal nor moral obligation for a viewer to watch any segment of a video they don't find engaging.
 
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Joe The Dragon said:
but with apples QA apple out side the store will need to be able to link to there own payment system as many times as they want on all of the buy screens.
Allowed to use stuff other then webkit
Allowed to have emulators
No or very limited content censorship
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Having to handle your own payment system is a nightmare, even when left to Paypal. Apple include sales taxes and the lot.

I don't get why not using webkit is so great.

Whilst I am for the use of emulators, most people aren't using them for backups of their own physical collection. Its not really piracy per se if you cannot buy the games in question to begin with but its still legally grey.

Censorship gets a bad rep. We high and mighty adults and our wild west rules for the web have made it a nightmare of a place for our kids to explore, such so that contained networks like Tiktok have become the de facto method for them to do so. Thats on us. If it wouldn't get printed in a newspaper it doesn't belong online.
 
SmugMaverick said:
Spotify, Netflix, kindle, Fortnite are all apps I want side loaded.

People crying piracy, Tim isn't going to rock you to sleep.
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I've been to those websites. The only reason people want Spotify and Netflix sideloaded is to avoid paying a subscription at all using hacked apps. That is piracy.
 
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hacky said:
It's really dumb to call someone thief for fast forwarding the video parts which are not interesting for the viewer. (And I'm not talking about ads)
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Then again, YouTube Premium doesn't offer that as part of their paid service.
 
vipergts2207 said:
Neither PC stores nor physical stores have a duopoly. Further, MS does not prevent anyone from making apps for their OS. Console makers sell the devices for little to no profit (actually at a loss generally) and then make it up on game sales. Apple does not. They make a boatload of money on the hardware. However, if regulators wanted to force console makers to change their business model, I'd be down for that.
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Consoles are the most correct analogy. Who cares how they structure their business? The question is...they have a "monopoly" very similar to apple but people are calling for them to allow outside app stores?

Because some people want their phones to be a little PC and some people want it to be a console. Neither is right or wrong. Android is a little PC, iPhone is a little console. But the "it should be a PC" people are trying to force their will on the "it should be a console" people and ruin it for us.
 
gnipgnop said:
Cloud services that offer non-reader apps can be accessed and paid for through the internet on iOS. Example: Microsoft made a public show of complaining about Apple's commission and Apple saying that they needed to submit each game individually in the App Store...but then quickly released their cloud gaming service via the browser and never had to pay Apple a dime.
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Right it's not an app, so of course they wouldn't have to pay Apple. That was never in question. This discussion is about native apps and the app store. The entire reason they went with the browser method is precisely because MS and their customers would've had to pay Apple.
 
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gnipgnop said:
That's how standard retail works. Customers are expected to educate themselves on the options. The idea that iPhone users don't understand that they have access to information outside of the App Store doesn't really make any sense. It's not the 1990s. Consumers know that the internet and web sites exist and that commercial products/services can be purchased online.
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You are grossly over estimating the average user. For example, Zoomers are more likely to get scammed than Boomers.

finance.yahoo.com

Boomers Are Less Likely To Be Scammed Out of Money than Gen Z — Here’s What To Watch For

You might be surprised to learn that 44% of young adults ages 20 to 29 have lost money to fraud, according to an infographic released by the Federal Trade Commission. This compares to just 23% of...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
 
jimbobb24 said:
This is so hilarious. Does this law apply to PS5? Anyone know the scope and how they choose the scope?
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The PS5 (depending on which model you buy) is still open to physical media though which you can buy or borrow from whoever you like. Those discs can be stocked by anyone. The PSN is just another retailer on that platform.
 
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jimbobb24 said:
Consoles are the most correct analogy. Who cares how they structure their business? The question is...they have a "monopoly" very similar to apple but people are calling for them to allow outside app stores?

Because some people want their phones to be a little PC and some people want it to be a console. Neither is right or wrong. Android is a little PC, iPhone is a little console. But the "it should be a PC" people are trying to force their will on the "it should be a console" people and ruin it for us.
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Consoles don't have a monopoly. There are a multitude of competitors in home gaming: PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, PC and Mac at the bare minimum.
 
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Catasstrophy said:
That analogy makes absolutely no sense in this context because brands are already allowed to be sold in more than one store. Nobody is trying to force the app store to let them sell on it as your Costco analogy tries to imply.

How about this--
Try renting a house and then having the landlord tell you that it can only be furnished with things he has curated for you to purchase because he gets 30% of every sale from the product manufacturers.
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Or how about this....BEFORE you rent the landlord specifies that is the deal and many many people LOVE it and choose it. Despite the fact right across the street is a rental where you do whatever you want many people choose the curated experience. But some people choose it then cry about it....
 
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hacky said:
I've mentioned proper alternative browser. Firefox. How that's taking someones revenue?
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Next thing I will ask why, you will say extensions, and we will end at ad blockers, right? Or now you will say you are not running an ad blocker? :D

hacky said:
emulators - how that's taking anyone's revenue, when I already own the games I want to own and when you can not buy them again for iPhone (Gameboy games in particular)
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You can still buy Gameboy cheap, you know, if you own games :D Phone can't replace the authentic experience of the games you own, right?
Apple does a 100% right thing to not allow emulators on the platform. It's a grey area. They can't check if you own a game or not. Not exactly illegal, but they get smacked by IP owners regularly.
 
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gnipgnop said:
That's how standard retail works. Customers are expected to educate themselves on the options. The idea that iPhone users don't understand that they have access to information outside of the App Store doesn't really make any sense. It's not the 1990s. Consumers know that the internet and web sites exist and that commercial products/services can be purchased online.
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Similarly, I always see security concerns brought up when discussing sideloading. Consumers know there is malicious software out there and they should be expected to know what they're installing on their phone and if they don't then they are expected to educated themselves.
 
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jimbobb24 said:
Consoles are the most correct analogy. Who cares how they structure their business? The question is...they have a "monopoly" very similar to apple but people are calling for them to allow outside app stores?

Because some people want their phones to be a little PC and some people want it to be a console. Neither is right or wrong. Android is a little PC, iPhone is a little console. But the "it should be a PC" people are trying to force their will on the "it should be a console" people and ruin it for us.
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Consoles are merely one product though in a much larger marketplace that has all sorts of companies, from Nintendo to Analogue operating within it. The highest selling console isn't even 5% of the numbers Apple does. People buy games consoles for recreation and thats it.

By comparison the iPhone is an infrastructure and a neccessity for everyday life. Android cannot be considered a competitor when they do not remotely share any app parity and Google are largely guilty of the same crimes as Apple. Android is also an infrastructure.
 
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It's very simple, to be able to run an app on an iPhone / iPad. That app needs to be signed with a certificate from Apple. In order to get these certificates you need to pay €99/year.

This allows you to create these certificates, and also upload the app to Apple for review. After the review the App can be uploaded to the App Store.

I think that this is where it's going to change. That your app still needs to be reviewed and signed (to keep out malware) and only then it would be allowed to be distributed to a third party store or sideloaded. (Which means the device will check if the App's unique certificate and version has been reviewed upon installing)

The legislations allows "gatekeepers" to require this because of security. So yeah, this would be a legal implementation of the legislation.

(also an active developer is already allowed to sideload any app certified by their Apple Id on any device they unlocked for development and is connected to their account)
 
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vipergts2207 said:
Consoles don't have a monopoly. There are a multitude of competitors in home gaming: PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, PC and Mac at the bare minimum.
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This is irrelevant but analogous because there is no monopoly in phones either. There is Android and iOS. At one point there were others and there may be more in the future. You defined the category as "home gaming" but I said consoles of which there are many but 3 major and in smartphones there are 2 major.
 
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