Reports Suggest Ring Allowed Employees Unfettered Access to Customer Camera Feeds

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. notabadname macrumors 65816


    Jan 4, 2010
    Detroit Suburbs
    It is certainly not good news. But, I’m also not worried about it. I just don’t do anything thrilling out in front of my front door. And If I did, it could be viewed (and filmed) by the neighbors across the street. My “expectation of privacy” is pretty low out on my sidewalk. But still, such video should not be viewed or mined for data by by the company I am contracting to store it for me without my express, and very clear, consent.
  2. The Barron macrumors 6502

    Mar 5, 2009
    Not even a chance of Alexa or any voice activated "smart" assistant ever being in this house! Amazon is insidious when it comes to person invasion with their many nifty devices. hah!
    --- Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019 ---
    Their leader is going to need to raise serious coin as his divorce settlement certainly sets a new world record seeing he was married prior to Amazon! Whew.
  3. Jamers99 macrumors member


    Apr 10, 2015
    Lutz, FL
    I don't own one but planned to buy a Ring this year. Not now. Forget it.
  4. ignatius345 macrumors 68000

    Aug 20, 2015
    Lol your “main mansion”. Sure. Thanks for sharing.
  5. Localcelebrity macrumors newbie


    Feb 10, 2004
    Chicago, IL
    So, I think we can pretty safely assume the HomeKit support isn’t coming at this point right?
  6. merik, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019

    merik macrumors newbie

    Nov 29, 2012
    I always wondered when this would finally get reported. I used to work for Ring and I can say this is true... we actually had to hide the employees that had the issue when Amazon came to the office when they were looking to acquire us. I was always weirded out on them having access for research and development without explicit permission.
  7. dilbert99 macrumors 68000

    Jul 23, 2012
    In most companies, staff access is audited. Access content when you have no need to and you will be sacked.
    In research in AI, you need real data to build the models, but that doesn't necessarily mean that companies should be using customers data without permission.
    Its not really much of a story, staff couldn't possibly watch every minute of every bit of footage.
  8. tennisproha macrumors 65816

    Jun 24, 2011
    This is why I masturbate in front of my Ring exclusively. Hey Jamie ;)
  9. GadgetBen macrumors 6502a


    Jul 8, 2015
    This is a massive data breach and should be international news.
  10. eddjedi macrumors 6502

    Sep 7, 2011
    People can't have it both ways. You either have cameras everywhere in/outside your house, or privacy. It's pretty simple.
  11. MacBH928 macrumors 68030


    May 17, 2008
    Not sure when people will understand not to trust companies with their personal lives. Not the KGB nor the Mossad have thought that people willingly will pay with their money and install spying devices in their home with a smile on their faces.

    Time to disconnect, this multimedia data collecting, storing, sharing, never deleting and also hackable is just not right. I would like to go back to the 90s when a TV just display video and a calculator just did math, not record your body temperature by touch or your family arguments via a secret microphone.
  12. sirozha macrumors 6502a

    Jan 4, 2008
    What cameras are you using?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 11, 2019 ---
    What did Mossad do to you? Whatch too many TV dramas?
  13. iapplelove macrumors 601


    Nov 22, 2011
    East Coast USA
    What data do they have of mine? They can peak into some videos they I erase daily... big deal.

    Hell equifax didn’t even get international news and that’s the biggest heist ever
  14. rols macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2008
    Except that Ring employees have access to the cameras which people put inside as well as out. If you only have Ring outside, yeah not much to be worried about, if you have them dotted around the house too, perhaps a different expectation of privacy.
  15. travelsheep macrumors 6502


    May 30, 2013
  16. MoreRumors? macrumors 6502


    Feb 28, 2018
    Ring do not need to access the customer's video to "improve" facial and object recognition. They could easily ask their own employees to volunteer to have it installed at their own homes or install it at all of the Amazon warehouses. So how does that sound Amazon?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 11, 2019 ---
    That is a great point!
  17. MikeTHIS macrumors member

    Oct 15, 2012
    I have two and they’re outside my home. I don’t feel the need to have inside monitoring - so if they want to watch the random animals run past the cameras be my guest.

    Also, typically when there’s a story like this things change a little.

    When you have connected devices (and it seems there’s a lot of them these days) privacy gets less and less. It’s like some movies predicted everything about society today......
  18. Morgenland, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019

    Morgenland macrumors 6502


    May 28, 2009
    To avoid a dispute about your attractiveness between the data processing companies/agencies?
    Better keep me out of this ;-)

  19. [AUT] Thomas macrumors 6502

    Mar 13, 2016
    Graz [Austria]
    While I'm in for a free market, I think there needs to be a law that enforces that passwords (authentication data) are
    • Are always stored hashed and salted. That becomes the "master hash"
    • Based on that use challenge authentication, rather than transmitting the password or master hash.
    • Transmitted via TLS 1.2 /w FS or higher on production equipment
    So, neither the password nor the master hash are actually transmitted -except at password change.

    It's that simple. As such penalties should be high.

    Also, all IoT and network things must enforce password change at setup...
    That alone would solve 90% of the botnet and IoT security issues.
  20. HQuest macrumors member

    Jan 10, 2012
    Odd... I own a Ring doorbell for well over 5 years and every single time data was sent out from the camera, activity was detected in front of it - exactly as it was configured to. I do run my very own closed home network, with same enterprise grade equipment and software you will find on many Fortune 500 companies, so I monitor every bit coming in or going out. The camera was never trigged by itself, so this misinterpretation of information is rubbish.

    On the cloud side, however, is where things get uh, cloudy. There is no way to guarantee who access my camera videos. Last I asked for Ring support help, they too sent a request for access to my images, which I’m perfectly fine with: what is the point for you to put in a surveillance system if it is private? If you need to share footage with law enforcement, you wouldn’t because it is only for you to see?

    One might counter argue saying “Ring is not a law enforcement” or “they have no business looking at my videos” and I agree. That’s why you are the silly one having public cameras recording private areas. A public service should only get public data: anyone can walk by and look outside my four walls and roof. That’s the extent of public security cameras. Get them on the outdoors, looking at driveways, porches, external doors, sheds, you name it. Make them no much different to the footage satellites are already capturing and you cannot opt out from them either.

    It is not the technology that is bad, is the misconception and ignorance that makes it look bad.
  21. Morgenland, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019

    Morgenland macrumors 6502


    May 28, 2009
    Technically, you're close, as far as I can tell.

    Companies that are too small and unknown to suffer from obvious security sloppiness can survive such things.
    Even front face companies where data whoring is a central part of the business model survive such things within their business models (Skype/Windows/Microsoft; Facebook; GooglePay etc). With these companies, you know where you stand.

    However, if a company is well known and serves markets that depend on trust, dirty programming could damage that company so much that internal strategic risk management prioritizes data security.

    This is currently happening at Apple.
    Obviously, they want to enter new markets that have long been lost for privacy traitors 'companies'.
    Apple's best-known products in preparation are currently Autonomous Driving, Health, Banking.
    If Apple doesn't make mistakes like Blackberry did back (who stood there from one day to the next as a liar) then it can generate immense capital and outpace all the disgusting data espionage companies for advertising and governments.
  22. laptech macrumors regular


    Apr 26, 2013
    You will find that the reason the Ring employees are using customers video data to identify 'targets' is so as the technology used in the devices improves, the camera will be able to independently scan a customers property and pick out ad related targets. The example's shown in the article are showing Ring employees training the software on what to look for by putting boxes around them. Once the designers are happy that the system works, customers will be asked to update their Ring devices and what they will find is that unbeknown to the them, the camera is working behind the scenes looking for stuff they can target adverts to the customer on their mobiles or computer.

    So for example, if the camera is in the living room, it will scan items that amazon sell and will send email ad's to the customer.

    Companies such a Ring will always use the excuse that it is doing what it is doing because of improving safety for it's customers. Which is total BS because time and time again, companies keep getting caught out selling customer data to 3rd party advertising companies.
  23. kemal macrumors 65816


    Dec 21, 2001
    Anything and everything in the name of selling you s-.
  24. 827538 macrumors 65816

    Jul 3, 2013
    This is why if I’m installing home cameras I would store the data locally.

    Ubiquiti has some great stuff for this, bit more cost and setup but it means not dealing with shady companies like this.
  25. Piggie macrumors G3


    Feb 23, 2010
    Ahhh, I wondered who I was watching !!!!

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