Retina MacBook Pro Could Lose EPEAT Status

[Rodimus Prime]

And Apple won't care if iFixit throws another hissyfit either. Apple employs designers and engineers that build stuff like this for a living. Somehow I doubt they all sat around in a meeting and said 'lets make the battery impossible to remove so 3 years from now people will have to replace their laptop with a new one'.

The rMBP got some of the best reviews, many calling it the best laptop Apple's ever built. Then iFixit 1/10 in repairability and suddenly everyone's trashing it. I just saw one review calling the retina display a "brilliant boondoggle", saying its not a product feature but a marketing one and that no one knew they wanted it until they saw it (wow imagine that, the average joe doesn't always know what's possible or what he/she wants until it's shown to them).

Oh and here's why there is no Ethernet port on the rMBP or MBA:

Image

to be fair iFixit was dead on giving the rMBP a 1/10 for repairability. Lets see if anything breaks on it it would not be work repairing. Most of the major parts are soddered onto the MOBO itself making them impossible to repair and replace. It is a consumer grade product all the way to the core.

 

[gnasher729]

The Macbook Air battery is screwed in. Its thinner than the retina MBP. So there goes that theory.

I like your username.

The MacBook Air has a 45 Wh battery. The Retina MBP has a 95 Wh battery. Well, it would seem quite difficult to make a 45 Wh battery that isn't thinner than a 95 Wh battery, whether you use screws or glue. There goes your argument, dissolving in thin air.

to be fair iFixit was dead on giving the rMBP a 1/10 for repairability. Lets see if anything breaks on it it would not be work repairing. Most of the major parts are soddered onto the MOBO itself making them impossible to repair and replace. It is a consumer grade product all the way to the core.

1 out of 10 is the rating that you get for iFixit's ability to repair the MBP.

I will turn to PC if Apple loses it's epeat status. Steve Jobs would be so angry if knew his company was willing to lose it's status to help the environment.

Disgusting.

You could buy an Energy Star 5.2 compliant Dell laptop. If you can find one. Or come straight back to Apple.

Until USA enforces more recycling of e-waste to take place locally instead of the current practice of shipping e-waste to other third-world countries for 'reprocessing', programs like EPEAT are a waste of money and time.

Quite the opposite, actually. Some of EPEAT's rules are there to protect recyclers in third world countries. For example the rule about being able to take devices apart with commonly available tools. Apple uses a different strategy, taking all their products back that customers return (Apple measured that they receive 70% back, while Dell gets about 20%), and recycling it in the country where it is returned.

 

[Rogifan]

to be fair iFixit was dead on giving the rMBP a 1/10 for repairability. Lets see if anything breaks on it it would not be work repairing. Most of the major parts are soddered onto the MOBO itself making them impossible to repair and replace. It is a consumer grade product all the way to the core.

So? Apple is not going to make design decisions based on whining from iFixit. Or outdated standards from EPEAT.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So? Apple is not going to make design decisions based on whining from iFixit. Or outdated standards from EPEAT.

no the point was people should not rip iFixIt for its rating because it was dead on. Apple is more or less completely exiting making professional grade products. They are nearly a 100% consumer grade company. Dont get me wrong they make grade high quality products but they are consumer grade.

 

[fpsBeaTt]

not an option for everyone

How so? If they can't physically reach an Apple store, Apple will arrange for a courier at no expense to yourself. Pretty sure it's an option for everyone that owns one.

 

[Fortimir]

I'm pretty sure the next revision of the rMBP will have a removable battery. This is the 2006 MBP debacle all over again...

I see no debacle here.

If that is the case then why have they not included the adapter in the box?

Because a LARGE number of users don't need it. Why spend the money? Really, if you're in the minority who needs it, $29 is nothing to complain about. I know I will never need to buy it. Most people who do probably only have one cable they ever plug into (at work usually), and you could just attach the dongle to the cable and leave it there anyway.

Yep! Sad but true...

This is just not based on reality. People don't throw away Macs. Most Macs see multiple owners during their life, and many Macs see one owner for a long time. The only place this matters is after many many years of use... and even then, you just send it to Apple and they send you a giftcard with the value of your salvage material.

 

[doelcm82]

If that is the case then why have they not included the adapter in the box?

Because It's optional. Like a printer or an external monitor (two of many things not included in the box).

 

[innerpurpose1]

good!

good, now apple will rethink their planned obsolescence strategy and hopefully make products that can be upgraded..

 

[terraphantm]

nothing that you said prevents battery recycling in the rMBP. Apple will service and can recycle it. what's the issue?

you can't perform repairs on your car, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get service and repairs, does it?

But... You can DIY car repairs if you want to. You can't DIY anything on the rMBPs even of you are so inclined

 

[tbrinkma]

If the ethernet port were reduced to only the internal hole like the HDMI and USB ports on that image it would actually fit just fine.

Rocketman

If the ethernet port were reduced to only the internal hole, it wouldn't be an ethernet port. All of the contacts for an ethernet port are along the bottom edge of that hole. If you get rid of the bottom of the port, you lose the contacts along with it.

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But... You can DIY car repairs if you want to. You can't DIY anything on the rMBPs even of you are so inclined

And on most modern cars, those 'DIY' repairs are handled exactly the same way as most repairs on the rMBP will be. Get your hands on the replacement board/module, remove the old one, and replace it with the new one. That's an *easy* repair job for your 'average consumer'. (Of course, the 'average consumer' won't be making those repairs on his laptop, regardless of brand or model, any more than he makes those repairs on his car.)

 

[festerfeet]

Just to update

A couple of things to bear in mind:

Ifixit's business model relies of upgradeable products so they have a commercial interest when a laptop can't be upgraded.

Robert Frisbee the current CEO of EPEAT stated that the standards needed updating last year.

On the front page of the EPEAT website (link and content below!

http://www.epeat.net/
An Open Letter from Robert Frisbee, EPEAT CEO

I am very happy to announce that all of Apple’s previously registered products, and a number of new products, are back on the EPEAT registry. Apple has joined us in addressing these events in a message on their website.

Our relationship with Apple is based on our natural alignment – as Apple drives innovation in product design, EPEAT drives innovation in standards design. EPEAT has pioneered voluntary standards, after-market verification, optional criteria and tiered product certification as ways to keep pace with a fast-paced industry.

We look forward to Apple’s strong and creative thoughts on ongoing standards development. The outcome must reward new directions for both design and sustainability, simultaneously supporting the environment and the market for all manufacturers’ elegant and high-performance products.

An interesting question for EPEAT is how to reward innovations that are not yet envisioned with standards that are fixed at a point in time. Diverse goals, optional points awarded for innovations not yet described, and flexibility within specified parameters to make this happen are all on the table in EPEAT stakeholder discussions. And of course, timely standards development, as with newly created Imaging Equipment and Television standards, and the current refresh of the PC/Display standard, is critical as well.

Answers to these questions support all our subscribers, and lead to mutual benefit for all our purchasers. And they led us to the path to our strengthened relationship with Apple.

The team at EPEAT offers its sincere thanks to the stakeholders whose strong support ensures EPEAT standards and system success, and to Apple for reaffirming their commitment to the EPEAT idea.

 

[MH01]

1 out of 10 is the rating that you get for iFixit's ability to repair the MBP.

I would say that the guys who have been pulling apart Apple products at iFixit would be more on the advanced/skilled side of the spectrum, the only one that might be able to repair on is MacGyver!!!!

 

[Mad-B-One]

$199, and the parts don't get trashed, they go back to Apple for recycling. Unless the battery is damaged in such a way that it's unsafe to ship (in which case there are local disposal regulations), every battery from an Apple product which is replaced by an Apple Authorized Service Center or an Apple Store goes back to Apple and gets recycled. Can't say that about user-replaceable batteries, can you? That means that by not having user-replaceable batteries, Apple is insuring that close to 100% of them get recycled, while companies that let users replace batteries themselves can't guarantee that even one will be recycled (yes, some will, maybe even most, but far less than Apple's).

jW

Well, actually, I replaced it in Germany, and all vendors who sell electronic equipment and batteries have to take battries back and get them recycled. For free. Actually, not getting them recycled is a missdemeanor crime and you can get fined higher than racing by a school easily. Ever wondered about this on anything:

This was on my battery. That means that the company pays for the recycling of the product and therefore, when you put the item into a recycling bin, it will happen one or the other way. (Talking about what recycling is, is a different subject) Now, with my battery, it was just plastig around (and a little rubber foot) - so, the recycling was basically just the battery. With the iMBP, that is another story as mentioned.

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I would say that the guys who have been pulling apart Apple products at iFixit would be more on the advanced/skilled side of the spectrum, the only one that might be able to repair on is MacGyver!!!!

Yea, he just needs bubblegum and an old piece of wire. Waaaait a minute: That is exactly the same tools the "recycling centers" in India are using! That means they must be experts on MacGyver!

 

[calderone]

no the point was people should not rip iFixIt for its rating because it was dead on. Apple is more or less completely exiting making professional grade products. They are nearly a 100% consumer grade company. Dont get me wrong they make grade high quality products but they are consumer grade.

Can you define "consumer grade?" Just so we are all on the same page.

 

[scottymorg]

poor me :/
*face palm
gosh!

 

[xStatiCa]

A glued-in battery is barely forgiveable on a $500 iPad. On a $2000 laptop with a much bigger battery? It's preposterous.

And yet the general consumer crowd will buy them up ignorant of the issue. This is the biggest issue I have with apple. Batteries do have to be replaced within a few years to have a decent battery life. Apple knows this and it works to their advantage. People will think... oh my laptop doesn't work as good I need a new one... let me just go buy a new one.

To apple the sealed in battery equals more $$$ for them so they will never change from that unless they are forced to by consumer feedback(as if they would listen) or a standards body I suspect.

 

[gnasher729]

I would say that the guys who have been pulling apart Apple products at iFixit would be more on the advanced/skilled side of the spectrum, the only one that might be able to repair on is MacGyver!!!!

They tried to pull off the glass cover from an LCD screen - without figuring out that the glass was not a cover, but an integral part of the screen. Doesn't take a genius to avoid that kind of affair.

And since Apple offers battery replacements for $199, I suppose these replacement won't be made by Apple Geniuses, but by the new Apple MacGyvers who will soon appear in every store.

 

[xStatiCa]

Do you know a better way to make a device as small as humanly possible with zero wasted space?

And that is the problem... Their goals are too far skewed to that goal no matter what they have to give up in serviceability.

Here is an idea... Don't make it small as humanly possible... make it small as humanly serviceable. So what if it is .05mm thicker if I can replace the damn battery I am all for it!

 

[aristotle]

A few thoughts.
1. A battery glued in is easy for a trained technician to remove with a heat gun. What do you think Apple does when they replace your battery?
2. An end user removable battery means that there is no guarantee that the old battery will be recycled properly either out of ignorance or laziness.

It seems to me that a battery with a longer lifespan and one that requires sending in the unit to be repaired by the manufacturer is actually better for the environment as you can be sure that the battery will be recycled properly and replacements have to be done less frequently.

Recyclers only need to add a heat gun to their arsenal to deal with glued in batteries. Problem solved.

PS. Apple hardware tends to have a much longer lifespan so that also contributes to a lower environmental impact than something that is more recyclable but more disposable as well since not everything in a computer can be recycled effectively. There will always be some e-waste.

 

[Fortimir]

So what if it is .05mm thicker if I can replace the damn battery I am all for it!

I think it comes down to the fact that it isn't "just" .05mm we're talking about to make that happen. There are a surprisingly large number of extra parts and extra space required for a removable battery system.

Trust me, I've never been a fan of non-user-replaceable batteries. I was one of the last hold-offs of everyone I knew moving from Creative to Apple for my music player years ago for that reason.

But it's just a different game now. The batteries are rated for a substantially longer life, and if you factor in the cost of the battery and the complexity to change it, the price is close to reasonable.

 

[xStatiCa]

I think it comes down to the fact that it isn't "just" .05mm we're talking about to make that happen.

I would not call that a fact. There are phones available with similar features that are not much thicker than what the iphone 4 is. I am sure apple could create one with a removable battery with only adding 0.5mm if they wanted to. You seem to be in defense mode instead of open to suggestions.

 

[Fortimir]

I would not call that a fact. There are phones available with similar features that are not much thicker than what the iphone 4 is. I am sure apple could create one with a removable battery with only adding 0.5mm if they wanted to. You seem to be in defense mode instead of open to suggestions.

Eh, I would admit I'm one of those people who is overjoyed by a 0.71" thick laptop, and I'm skeptical they could make it user-replaceable for a mere 0.05".

IF they could manage to do it, and keep the "solidness" of the build, I'd be all for it.

 

[xStatiCa]

First of all, Apple WILL replace the battery in the RMBP for $199. You don't need to throw away a $2200 computer when the battery no longer holds a charge.

The main problem is you will be without that computer for at least a week. Some people depend on their computers and others just would not want to be without them that long. I am in both camps. For those that have a few macbooks I am sure they could more easily cope with it. My laptop from my work can be swapped out with a new battery in seconds if one starts degrading. I am sure they would have issue with needing to send a laptop back to the manufacturer to replace a battery as well as the users would not like it.

The SSD is removable, and OWC has already created a replacement drive for the 2012 MacBook Air.

I have a 2009 macbook air and need more SSD space (I have 128gb) but I have not found any options to do the upgrade myself by buying my own 256gb SSD drive because of the connector they used directly on the SSD drive. Apple even forced one of the companies selling a kit to upgrade the SSD drive to stop making it.

It's a sea change, to be sure, and undoubtedly disappointing to many used to the days of ultra customizability and tweaking (prevalent from the 1980s through the 1990s), but for that's the direction of the entire industry.

I am hopeful that alternative products/platforms will always be available to at least let consumers know there is another way and to put pressure on Apple to at least stay somewhat more open minded to user serviceability issues.

 

[KPOM]

The main problem is you will be without that computer for at least a week. Some people depend on their computers and others just would not want to be without them that long. I am in both camps. For those that have a few macbooks I am sure they could more easily cope with it. My laptop from my work can be swapped out with a new battery in seconds if one starts degrading. I am sure they would have issue with needing to send a laptop back to the manufacturer to replace a battery as well as the users would not like it.

No, you wouldn't be without it for a week. They claim it will be within a day.

I have a 2009 macbook air and need more SSD space (I have 128gb) but I have not found any options to do the upgrade myself by buying my own 256gb SSD drive because of the connector they used directly on the SSD drive. Apple even forced one of the companies selling a kit to upgrade the SSD drive to stop making it.

They haven't forced OWC to stop selling their replacement parts. I think the issue with the other supplier was an existing contractual relationship.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Can you define "consumer grade?" Just so we are all on the same page.

Not Enterprise ready. Not targeting business at all. For example HP eliteBooks and Dell latitudes are example of business grade computers. They also are aimed at that market.