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Riots in the UK

CorvusCamenarum said:
I take it that's where the more upper class people that aren't rioting live? I'm an American, so I'm not all that aware of more intimate details of London's geography/demographics.
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The West End is the dead centre of town - not much residential stuff there, but lots of big expensive shops.

It's a likely target - and there was some trouble on Sunday. London is easy to get around, and with kids hooked up on Blackberry, it's a valid worry that a 'flash mob' might appear in the West End.

Most of the trouble has been in further-out and poorer areas though - these have more residential properties and high streets where shops have been ransacked.
 
I read his morning that – as well as Birmingham and Liverpool – there's been trouble in Manchester, Nottingham and Bristol. I'm not sure exactly what exactly where, but it's depressing (if not surprising) to see this spreading.
 
Well I woke up relieved that I hadn't been stolen and put on eBay as a "slightly used male in mid-twenties" this morning!

Fortunately my area is fine, I'm lucky to live in an area without gang issues or much crime, but three separate areas about 15-20 mins walk away had trouble.

Gf already planning to leave work early today, as work's nearest train station was shut yesterday due to unrest.

Wonder what will happen tonight, if anything?
 
But... why? Can someone please tell us some more about this supposedly unfair shooting of someone?

I just don't get what it's all about. Someone died and then someone else wanted nicer stuff?
 
Heilage said:
But... why? Can someone please tell us some more about this supposedly unfair shooting of someone?

I just don't get what it's all about. Someone died and then someone else wanted nicer stuff?
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What I'm gathering is; the police shot a gang member. A riot happened when a girl was hit by a baton(?) and triggered a wave of copy-cat riots.
 
Heilage said:
But... why? Can someone please tell us some more about this supposedly unfair shooting of someone?

I just don't get what it's all about. Someone died and then someone else wanted nicer stuff?
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Well we don't know much about the Thursday shooting. Waiting for investigations. But a peaceful protest on Saturday was hijacked by yobs. It just spread from there each night. Just seems to be bored kids with no prospects of achieving anything going put for a night of looting.
 
This Duggan fellow didn't seem totally innocent, but there wasn't a lot of information about what actually transpired on Thursday.
 
ann713 said:
What I'm gathering is; the police shot a gang member. A riot happened when a girl was hit by a baton(?) and triggered a wave of copy-cat riots.
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You appear to have a better grasp of whats going on than many people in the UK,the peaceful protest outside Tottenham police station kicked off when the police badly beat a sixteen year old girl in front of hundreds of witness's.The spreading of the reaction across London and further afield was a spontaneous outpouring of visceral rage by (mainly) a generation who have been battered physically,economically and in every way possible for years.

As you no doubt know what will happen now is a backlash from those with a financial stake in things not changing,I suspect it will quieten down for some time before it boils over again when the ham fisted Met police make another balls up.

( incidentally they are not officially riots because once they are declared as such the police are liable for paying for the damage and the insurance companies are off the hook)
 
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Heilage said:
This Duggan fellow didn't seem totally innocent, but there wasn't a lot of information about what actually transpired on Thursday.
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I don't think you'll find many people who would say Duggan was totally lily white,the problem is the Met issued a statement inferring he had shot at police and was killed as a result,not quite a straight out lie but fairly close.Given the Mets previous record of lying and it's corrupt relationship with the corporate media it's no wonder people demanded answers and took to the streets in anger.
 
Peterkro said:
The spreading of the reaction across London and further afield was a spontaneous outpouring of visceral rage by (mainly) a generation who have been battered physically,economically and in every way possible for years.
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What a load of b******s.

There's no excuse for this sort of criminality. It's high time these communities were challenged to sort themselves out and reject the gun and drugs cultures they harbour.
 
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Thugs will be thugs, simple as that.

UK TV bringing out the racists ("It's all the black peoples fault"), the lefties ("It's all the Governments fault") and the voice of the people ("Kill the lot of them")

Personally, I think a nice mass sterilisation of all those convicted would benefit society as a whole...
 
Peterkro said:
As you no doubt know what will happen now is a backlash from those with a financial stake in things not changing,I suspect it will quieten down for some time before it boils over again when the ham fisted Met police make another balls up.
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Sounds as if you're blaming the police for this and you are condoning the violence here Peterkro. Live locally do you?
 
hmm dont know but i said that something like that would happen already years ago ,
over the years jobs got cut, wages gone down to minimum , property prices went through the roof , rents are far from affordable for young people , if they had not the chance or IQ to go to university to get cheap student loans, the school system doesn't help there , with many leave school without beeing able to read or write proper , are left with if they are really lucky with minimum wage jobs (one of the lowest minimum wage in europe ) ,apprenticeships are as rare as ski resorts in Ghana and in london or throughout the UK really it means a struggle to rent even a small box room and everything we think today are standard , computers , big screen lcd tv's , cars, a proper payed job ...are for most as far out of reach as food in somalia ,most see their only chance today are drugs to be able to fund all those things the upper class can afford , and today upper class means already a £15000 pA job as the middle class is disappearing rapidly .
so those riots are for many a chance to get the goods the others can afford,
in the uk i have seen it in recent years that young people have absolute no respect at all for other peoples property , they kick of wing mirrors ,smash car windows if they cant find someone they can kick of a fight with when they come home from the pub as a hobby
 
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firestarter said:
I'd debate with you - but frankly you're part of the problem, and I don't really think you have anything interesting to say.
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If you mean I'm prepared to look at the situation in an analytical way and try and see the reasons and background of whats happening without resorting to sub Daily Mail frothing at the mouth about thugs and calling in the Army,then yes I guess to the reactionary right I am part of a problem.Incidently if you think I am uncritically supporting all that is going on you couldn't be more wrong,there are some very nasty violent incidents that have happened during the last few days and I'd condemn them outright. The idiots on the BBC right at this moment are going on about last night "how anarchy reigned" with people this dumb how can you expect a reasoned debate .

(you could do worse than read the quote from MLK I posted earlier and think on )
 
This is all incredibly worrying and what concerns me is the focus on outright condemnation. This is wrong, we all know that but making statements that make out like these rioters are very naughty kids and should be scolding are essentially valueless.

What worries me about these riots is that they're a symptom of a very sick society, something has to be incredibly wrong for this to happen. Giving the few kids they'll pick up a slap on the wrist and a few years in lockup won't fix that, it won't fix anything at all. It'll just ruin a few kids lives for being carried away with it all.

It's all just deeply saddening.

JetBlack7 said:
These hoodlums should be shot on sight, no excuse.

You riot, you die.
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Shot on sight for being a kid caught up in mob mentality and stealing a few things? Nice.

People with opinions like yours make me sick and ashamed to be human.
 
Mord said:
Shot on sight for being a kid caught up in mob mentality and stealing a few things? Nice.

People with opinions like yours make me sick and ashamed to be human.
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Completely missed the point, I said HOODLUMS. But the police knows how to restrain and then question instead of shooting, so let them do the job they were trained to do. I've been in a few mobs myself and now i look back and I regret it, if a child follows that kind of mentality, it's because it has not been taught by parents not to hurt other people's physicall integrity and /or property because it is wrong.

And i'll leave you with the comments about this incident on this website

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:1f4f9046-86ea-442a-becd-f046dec71100

PS: If they act like animals, then be treated like one.
 
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JetBlack7 said:
Completely missed the point, I said HOODLUMS. But the police knows how to restrain and then question instead of shooting, so let them do the job they were trained to do.

And i'll leave you with the comments about this incident on this website

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:1f4f9046-86ea-442a-becd-f046dec71100
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So being percieved as a "hoodlum" transform's a kid into someone worthy of death. I'm not saying that there should be no consequences for rioters just vocally condemning them to death with such vitriol doesn't help. It just reminds me of the kind of public vitriol that facilitates the forming of a totalitarian state.

You still make me sick.

An eye for an eye eh? I'd rather not live in a blind world. Animals don't riot, people do, it's a uniquely human response.

When did you ever see a chimp steal a playstation 3?
 
True, it does need debating why, and what can be done.

But for now, it's about prevention of another incident, and if that involves more police, armed or not with rubber bullets or tasers, then so be it. Army? Why not, they are employed to protect british interests.
There has been talks of water cannons with dye to identify rioters for later arrest, good. People who say
"that might tag innocent people", why would innocent people be there, innocent people are at home.
These people do not respect authority, but they would not risk conviction by dye tagging, or their lives over a TV? No.

The streets are not safe at the moment for the general public, and thats not good. Order needs to be returned, it cannot be left to continue.
 
Mord said:
So being percieved as a "hoodlum" transform's a kid into someone worthy of death. I'm not saying that there should be no consequences for rioters just vocally condemning them to death with such vitriol doesn't help. It just reminds me of the kind of public vitriol that facilitates the forming of a totalitarian state.

You still make me sick.

An eye for an eye eh? I'd rather not live in a blind world. Animals don't riot, people do, it's a uniquely human response.

When did you ever see a chimp steal a playstation 3?
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If I make you sick, that is your problem. I alread said that I know I may be a tad extreme, but most of those people don't even know why they are rioting. If they burnt down your house, destroyed your family's cars, would you act like "oh man, that sucks. Well, part of a riot i guess"?

I recognize my idea was not the best one, but if no one did anything, they wouldn't stop. The police is trying to show they are in control, because if they don't, the rioters will think they are in control, and that would be the worst kind of thing to happen...
 
rowley said:
True, it does need debating why, and what can be done.

But for now, it's about prevention of another incident, and if that involves more police, armed or not with rubber bullets or tasers, then so be it. Army? Why not, they are employed to protect british interests.
There has been talks of water cannons with dye to identify rioters for later arrest, good. People who say
"that might tag innocent people", why would innocent people be there, innocent people are at home.
These people do not respect authority, but they would not risk conviction by dye tagging, or their lives over a TV? No.

The streets are not safe at the moment for the general public, and thats not good. Order needs to be returned, it cannot be left to continue.
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As has been practiced in the occupied north east of Ireland,that turned out well didn't it.
 
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