Russian Lawmaker Seeks to Cap Apple's App Store Commission at 20%

[eulslix]

I'll end up costing us. The current Steam and App Store have been a level playing field where indie developers can shove up a game with no hosting costs and people willing to try it because they trust these stores. As soon as you take away that trust and as soon as these stores have to start charging you for storage and distribution, then we get back to the pre AppStore days where it was prohibitively expensive to sell.

Yeah, because it’s so expensive to cover storage and distribution, that it justifies a 30% cut. Oh wait... epic store 12%, itch.io 10%, ...

Those companies charge 30% simply because they can, and no one really has a choice unless they want to completely ignore the mobile market. If game publishers would apply the same policies for taking over marketing, physical storage, lawyers etc. (the actually expensive stuff), they would end up taking a 95% cut... which they dont.

And no one forced apple to take a flat rate approach. They could just as well go for a revenue based approach like many companies do nowadays, giving small indies discounts. But yeah, I guess Netflix is more in need of that....

On top of that Apple doesn’t really give you much for that. With steam you get a full prerelease, communication and marketing platform with solid analytics. Google gives you some very solid analytic tools? What does Apple do, other then eating a piece of your pie for an occasional bump in the App Store?

 

[Stromos]

Apple/Google should be forced to stop gatekeeping payments on the App/Play Store. Period.

Yes joe blow developer is a master at PCI! Trust them with your card number!

 

[I7guy]

I'm more looking forward to sideloading apps anyway, but hey come on, 30% to cover these services is hilarious.
At least 20% of is pure revenue, or why do you think they avoid disclosing it.

They won't because at least EU will follow, and US probably too.
Sure they still can decide the stop their business in RU,EU, etc., Apple board wallets are full enough, but their greed weights more.

The Russian solution is a joke. Honestly. Cap at 20% bu than require 6.5% from the 20% to go to some dodgy state department ... I smell someone filing their pockets. So Apple would end up with 13.5%?

This is getting out of hand. Apple has all the tools to resolve this in a reasonable way without leaving others to decide for them with these crazy schemes made by .... Yes, they can leave Russia, what’s next leave the EU?

Yeah, because it’s so expensive to cover storage and distribution, that it justifies a 30% cut. Oh wait... epic store 12%, itch.io 10%, ...

Those companies charge 30% simply because they can, and no one really has a choice unless they want to completely ignore the mobile market. If game publishers would apply the same policies for taking over marketing, physical storage, lawyers etc. (the actually expensive stuff), they would end up taking a 95% cut... which they dont.

And no one forced apple to take a flat rate approach. They could just as well go for a revenue based approach like many companies do nowadays, giving small indies discounts. But yeah, I guess Netflix is more in need of that....

On top of that Apple doesn’t really give you much for that. With steam you get a full prerelease, communication and marketing platform with solid analytics. Google gives you some very solid analytic tools? What does Apple do, other then eating a piece of your pie for an occasional bump in the App Store?

I wonder if all who are cheering/wanting controls on apples fees and commissions would welcome the same type of laws on their personal income; ie restricting the income that an employer has to pay an employee. An employee can then either work the remainder of the year for free or find another job. All of this let's have the government step in and control Apple is virtue signalling as no one would welcome the same controls against them earning $$$.

Well, Yelp pays 30% of the app price, and 30% of in-app purchases. I think the app is free, and they have no in-app purchases Apple's App Store has identical rules for everyone, and as a result some companies pay for others.

So in a hypothetical universe where there are 10,000 free apps in the app store and one app charges a flat one time $2.99 fee. That $2.99 pays for the other free apps?

 

[ruka.snow]

Yeah, because it’s so expensive to cover storage and distribution, that it justifies a 30% cut. Oh wait... epic store 12%, itch.io 10%, ...

Those companies charge 30% simply because they can, and no one really has a choice unless they want to completely ignore the mobile market. If game publishers would apply the same policies for taking over marketing, physical storage, lawyers etc. (the actually expensive stuff), they would end up taking a 95% cut... which they dont.

And no one forced apple to take a flat rate approach. They could just as well go for a revenue based approach like many companies do nowadays, giving small indies discounts. But yeah, I guess Netflix is more in need of that....

On top of that Apple doesn’t really give you much for that. With steam you get a full prerelease, communication and marketing platform with solid analytics. Google gives you some very solid analytic tools? What does Apple do, other then eating a piece of your pie for an occasional bump in the App Store?

Apple pays the taxes for me, handles chargebacks, licensing, provides APIs for just about everything and they are well documented, has over 1 billion potential customers, some of the best dev tools out there. And all for under £100 a year with no charge for having one or one hundred apps up unless I actually make a sale. This is by far a much better deal than going it alone, a licensing service is often 15-30% or I need to hire or spend my own time writing a licensing server and DRM. Let’s add on hosting and CDN costs which are about $2000/month per app. It seems people have forgotten how much it costs to have a app outside the AppStore.

 

[itsmeaustend]

30% pays for many developer services like free CloudKit, free Apple Maps usage, fast app review times, many SDK features and improvements every year, and much more.

20% means Apple will cut back on developer services to make up the difference and likely charge for services that used to be 100% free for all developers.

You already have to pay $100 to develop for Apple platforms anyway. Should that not cover the 10% difference?

$2000/month per app

This isn't anywhere close to being true unless you have some super extraordinarily popular app. Stop pulling numbers from literally nowhere.

 

[Internaut]

It's Russia. This is how it starts. It won't be the last action they take against Apple. Give it a few years and there will be little Apple presence, a Russia Only app store policy and bad Android phones full of FSB spyware.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Seems like a rather dumb sollution. I understand that Apple has a partial monopoly, but it’s not a complete one: you always have the option of switching to android or a few small other operating systems.
I personally like the idea of a walled garden a lot as it contributes a lot to my digital safety.

People also have the option of stepping out of Russia.

How many Russians will step into another country vs how many will switch from iOS to Android?

The fact the numbers are comparable is how you know iOS Apps are a separate market from Android Apps, just like Russia is a separate market from the EU or China.

Also, if you'd rather exclusively use the iOS App Store, there's no reason you couldn't do that, just like there's no reason you couldn't exclusively use the Mac App Store (and, unless I'm mistaken, the default settings on mac OS only permit that, right?)

 

[ruka.snow]

This isn't anywhere close to being true unless you have some super extraordinarily popular app. Stop pulling numbers from literally nowhere.

This isn't out of nowhere, I pulled up my old MaxCDN and AWS S3 bills. This is based on 40TB/month.

 

[kcslc]

So they want the industry-standard fee cut to 20% with no consolation on if this is viable or not, and on top of that, 1/3rd of that fee should be paid to the government on top of whatever sales tax they have. Sure these companies will just have to cut something to make it work, perhaps free apps and free hosting.

I am sure developers will be delighted when their $2000/month storage bill comes in whether they sell a single unit or not, like the good old days.

According to most Apple apologists, if you don’t like apple’s rules, you can use another platform. Well, if you don’t like Russia’s rules, you don’t have to sell overpriced hardware there. ^^shrug^^

 

[ruka.snow]

According to most Apple apologists, if you don’t like apple’s rules, you can use another platform. Well, if you don’t like Russia’s rules, you don’t have to sell overpriced hardware there. ^^shrug^^

This doesn't just affect Apple, but don't let that stop you.

 

[Dking02]

Yup! Even big companies like Yelp and Facebook are saving hundreds thousands of dollars each month by using Apple Maps in their iOS app instead of Google Maps. Every developer benefits!

Apple maps sucks tho. The only two maps I use is Google maps (better re-routing and traffic updates)and Waze.

 

[gnasher729]

They won't because at least EU will follow, and US probably too.
Sure they still can decide the stop their business in RU,EU, etc., Apple board wallets are full enough, but their greed weights more.

The EU will follow Russia? Which EU would that be? Not the one in Europe surely.

 

[kcslc]

If you want iOS to be Android, why don’t you just get and Android phone? Most people don’t want the ability to side load apps on their iPhone. They appreciate the security and convenience of a single App Store. Additionally most developers are also fine with the App Store being the only way to load apps as it levels the playing field. You sure have an agenda- just not quite sure what it is yet.

What’s your source for your “most people don’t want” and “most developers are fine with” claims?

 

[ruka.snow]

Apple maps sucks tho. The only two maps I use is Google maps (better re-routing and traffic updates)and Waze.

Apple maps might suck for you in your use case. But it is free and it is more than good enough for showing people where your business is located. You are looking at it from a consumer view.

 

[Internaut]

Apple maps sucks tho. The only two maps I use is Google maps (better re-routing and traffic updates)and Waze.

Well they sucked. These days I'm comfortable using either/or. In some places (Shanghai, for example) I find Apple's offering more effective than Google Maps.

 

[Wildkraut]

The EU will follow Russia? Which EU would that be? Not the one in Europe surely.

We'll see, the antitrust is ongoing...
I'll laugh later, and can add you to the comment if you want, that way you don't miss my laugh.

 

[ervingv]

😆 Am enjoying this App Store drama at Apple. I can't wait for changes to the policies preventing apps like Xbox Streaming, Stadia and others being on the store.

 

[jhende7]

What’s your source for your “most people don’t want” and “most developers are fine with” claims?

My Source is the 100s of millions of people who buy/develop for iPhones instead of Andriod and don't moan on macrumours. Additionally this is a huge reason that iPhones dominate in enterprise compared to Andriod. People value, simplicity, privacy and security - take away the app store away and we don't get that.

Try telling Grandma in order to get her recipe app you have to sideload the "bakingrus" app store, create an account and download it from there and tell me how happy she is gonna be.

I've said it once and ill say it again - if you don't agree with the iPhones value proposition, then go buy an Andriod. There is literally no reason to own an iPhone if things like privacy and security are not important too you.

 

[draugminaion]

So, Apple’s take will be about 13%. That’s pretty close to break even. That’s not something I see them doing.
I‘m curious how this will work out.
Maybe they will just leave.

 

[sw1tcher]

2. Like Epic, they are trying to open up iOS so that malware, spyware and banned apps can be installed, either by a distributor or user stupidity.

I see it as opening up iOS so owners who paid good money for their iOS devices can decide for themselves how and where they get their apps... you know, like how macOS users are able to do so currently.

I've never gotten malware from the Steam game store.

Opening up the ability for iOS users to get apps outside of Apple's app store would have been good for the Hong Kong protesters after Apple banned the HKmap.live app

It would also be good for people in China trying to bypass the great firewall by installing VPN apps that Apple has banned.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I am sure developers will be delighted when their $2000/month storage bill comes in whether they sell a single unit or not, like the good old days.

Well, usually hosting plans you pay per use starting with an affordable basic plan of 30 or so euros per month. One of my company, yes we pay A couple of hundred euros, maybe a bit more, 15.000 users, half a million revenue last year.

Yes I’m thinking of making an native app for iOS ... but I wonder ... if my customers start paying through iOS for some reason, say they like the the features it provided to them, this 150K would go to Apple, just like that, simple. Considering the nature of the service no way this App Store would bring the business more customers just like that. The only Thing that can bring more sales is investing in active sales and marketing and improve the product, I need that money to do just that.

Let’s cut to the chase shall we and talk actual individual values? That is the only way that this 30% commission would make sense. Not whatever billions Apple Store “sells” to whatever blockbuster apps.

Yea, I we pay around 1300 a month total, cloud plan, but that includes databases, backups, message queues, and so manny many other stuff in the Cloud.

That is how much I pay totally for the tech infrastructure to serve this little business.

On top of this, the majority of the cost goes to marketing and sales, product development and support services, accounting (300 euros a month) in this order.

I hope you understand how far out you may be in your estimate. .

Cheers.

PS:Given this I just don’t see how a small startup such as this, Apple just taking 150K just like is helping small devs. I think it would be actually helping Apple. Have enough of us like this ... how much help they need right?

Now it seams that some factions in the Russian Gov also need some help.

 

[I7guy]

I see it as opening up iOS so owners who paid good money for their iOS devices can decide for themselves how and where they get their apps... you know, like how macOS users are able to do so currently.

I've never gotten malware from the Steam game store.

Opening up the ability for iOS users to get apps outside of Apple's app store would have been good for the Hong Kong protesters after Apple banned the HKmap.live app

It would also be good for people in China trying to bypass the great firewall by installing VPN apps that Apple has banned.

I see this as government interfering where voting with ones dollars should be the final say. Don't like a closed ecosystem, vote with your dollars, show apple who is boss.

Of course, this could go somewhere or nowhere.

 

[I7guy]

Well, usually hosting plans you pay per use starting with an affordable basic plan of 30 or so euros per month. One of my company, yes we pay A couple of hundred euros, maybe a bit more, 15.000 users, half a million revenue last year.

Yes I’m thinking of making an native app for iOS as many customers use the iPhone ... but I wonder ... if my customers start paying through iOS for some reason, say they like the the features it provided to them, this 150K would go to Apple, just like that, simple. Considering the nature of the service no way this App Store would bring the business more customers just like that. The only Thing that can bring more sales is investing in active sales and marketing and improve the product, I need that money to do just that.

Let’s cut to the chase shall we and talk actual individual values? That is the only way that this 30% commission would make sense. Not whatever billions Apple Store “sells” to whatever blockbuster apps.

Yea, I we pay around 1300 a month total, cloud plan, but that includes databases, backups, message queues, and so manny many other stuff in the Cloud.

That is how much I pay totally for the tech infrastructure to serve this little business.

On top of this, the majority of the cost goes to marketing and sales, product development and support services in this order.

I hope you understand how far out you may be in your estimate.

Cheers.

Why Apple charges 30% is irrelevant. I say vote with your dollars, both devs and consumers, show Apple you won't take it anymore!

 

[heikkipekka]

Isn’t that proposal saying developers need to pay A THIRD of their commission to Russian Goverment for a new “special training” (so new tax)?

So first developers would get 80 % of sales instead of 70 % (an increase), BUT then from that 80 % they would need to pay Russian Goverment 33 % so they would get 67 % from that 80 %

So 54 % to developers in the end?

 

[Stromos]

What’s your source for your “most people don’t want” and “most developers are fine with” claims?

When half the country won't wear a mask for freedom and safety and I don't really care what people think. The walled garden exists for a reason. The people who don't like it are probably the same people that think banning encryption is great.