Russia's Anti-Monopoly Watchdog Says Apple Abused Dominant App Store Position

[coldwaves]

That holds some water except what if the companies you listed started off with these same rules when there was fierce competition, the same rules that most critics claimed would be their downfall, but yet that company ended up becoming successful over the years and kept the same exact rules that they started off with. I'm sorry I think that's the entire way free market is truly set to work.

What I said has nothing to do with consistency or inconsistency of rules over time. My point is that rules regulating monopoly is complicated and using simply analogy does not address the complex nature of that. Not sure how what you said here relates to my post.

In response to your point, consistency of the rule is not necessarily the validity of the rule. Success of the rule does not necessarily equate validity of the rule. Free market does not mean you can set whatever rules you operate on. Merely stating Apple's consistency about its App Store rule has nothing to do with whether these rules are correct. I personally don't think Apple's rules are anti-competitive based on what I think about the content of the rule, not about the consistency or success of these rules. While I agree with your opinion about the validity of App Store rules, I disagree with the logic you presented here in this post.

 

[notabadname]

No they aren’t - because there is no cost associated with leaving the store and going down the street.

These laws take user behavior into account and in practice you cannot switch between platforms every day of the week... you can with retail.

But you can switch, and there are countless oportunities to swap phones where a carrier will buy your current phone and let you get a new one when you change. Additionally, in the Sam Club example - take the state of Maine for example. There is not a Costco in the state, so for a discount “big box store”, Sam’s Club is it - no swapping to Costco. If you own an XBox, your purchase of digital content (the way nearly everyone buys games) is controlled by Microsoft and their store. And you can’t take your software to PlayStation either. And Sony and Microsoft absolutely control their stores, sales and pricing - exact same example as with the phone hardware/store relationship.

 

[Analog Kid]

I think that’s fair - the goal of antitrust law is to promote positive economic behaviors so it’s a fair line of attack to say this will not have a positive impact (I personally do think a small amount of legislation could improve things a bit, not removing the AppStore obviously but maybe opening iOS to official sideloading).

Though not super important I’ll note that a company doesn’t need to have a majority or even plurality of market share to be guilty of engaging in anti competitive behaviors.

And I think opening iOS to side loading would damage the experience. If I want side loading, there are other options I can find in the market. If your proposal succeeded, then there wouldn’t be a viable producer of the product I prefer.

Different countries have different laws. In the US, the FTC view looks like this:

Single Firm Conduct

Some companies succeed in the marketplace to the point where their behavior may not be subject to common competitive pressures.

www.ftc.gov

It’s all about market power and whether there is an opportunity for an existing or new competitor to challenge their power. In short, can we go somewhere else if we don’t like Apple. The answer is certainly yes.

 

[whyamihere]

If I want an app on iOS there is only ONE place I can get it.

Not true, a developer has every right to create a progressive web app.

While it is true iOS only allows one app store, that has been a fact since the beginning of the platform. Nothing has changed there. We aren't suddenly having the rug pulled out from us with this "revelation." So if you bought an iPhone, you knew that limitation and yet still willingly bought an iPhone. The only thing that's changed is now everyone apparently wants to have their cake and eat it too.

If having multiple means of installing an app is more important to you than the benefits iOS provides, you have a choice. Vote with your dollar, stop using iOS which you knew only allowed one app store, and support Android.

 

[Geodextro]

But you can switch, and there are countless oportunities to swap phones where a carrier will buy your current phone and let you get a new one when you change. Additionally, in the Sam Club example - take the state of Maine for example. There is not a Costco in the state, so for a discount “big box store”, Sam’s Club is it - no swapping to Costco. If you own an XBox, your purchase of digital content (the way nearly everyone buys games) is controlled by Microsoft and their store. And you can’t take your software to PlayStation either. And Sony and Microsoft absolutely control their stores, sales and pricing - exact same example as with the phone hardware/store relationship.

You act as if Walmart (Sams club) and Microsoft (XBox) haven’t been found guilty of engaging in anticompetitive behavior before.... oh wait they have.

 

[Geodextro]

And I think opening iOS to side loading would damage the experience. If I want side loading, there are other options I can find in the market. If your proposal succeeded, then there wouldn’t be a viable producer of the product I prefer.

Different countries have different laws. In the US, the FTC view looks like this:

Single Firm Conduct

Some companies succeed in the marketplace to the point where their behavior may not be subject to common competitive pressures.

www.ftc.gov

It’s all about market power and whether there is an opportunity for an existing or new competitor to challenge their power. In short, can we go somewhere else if we don’t like Apple. The answer is certainly yes.

Considering Apple is under fire for anti-trust in just about every jurisdiction they operate in (including US) I think it is only a matter of time before they are forced to open the platform up in some regard. I’m with you that I hope it doesn’t degrade the experience - I think there is opportunity to enhance it personally.

 

[alexandr]

It’s our right as citizens of democratic countries - we decide the rules of fair business practices, we don’t let them decide for themselves.

keep telling yourself that, i guess. and good luck with that)

 

[Analog Kid]

Considering Apple is under fire for anti-trust in just about every jurisdiction they operate in (including US) I think it is only a matter of time before they are forced to open the platform up in some regard. I’m with you that I hope it doesn’t degrade the experience - I think there is opportunity to enhance it personally.

If there’s room to enhance it, that’s what the free market is meant to do. There are places where a truly free market doesn’t work, but consumer products isn’t one of those places.

And being “under fire” isn’t the same thing as being wrong. I think we need to separate the grandstanding of US politicians in an election year and the statements and actions by governments that may have political or economic reasons to want to weaken a major US company from what is actual wrong doing.

 

[urnotl33t]

At a MIN, at least here in the States, the U.S. Gov't should appoint an App Store "Tsar" who has oversight of a 2nd App Store, where Users can safely download apps.

Um.. ya know what “tsar” is and it’s etymology, right? (Pure joyous dripping irony...)

Good luck with that !

Yeah, what you said....

 

[Solomani]

Putin Russia is the perfect watchdog to make sure no one abuses their position of dominance.

Bwahahahahahahahaaaa!

 

[urnotl33t]

Now that's a real knee-slapper!

I thought the same thing...

 

[4jasontv]

Considering Apple is under fire for anti-trust in just about every jurisdiction they operate in (including US) I think it is only a matter of time before they are forced to open the platform up in some regard. I’m with you that I hope it doesn’t degrade the experience - I think there is opportunity to enhance it personally.

That's the nature of humanity. We love to destroy beauty.

 

[4jasontv]

It’s our right as citizens of democratic countries - we decide the rules of fair business practices, we don’t let them decide for themselves.

Vote with your wallet until people without a wallet are angered with your vote.

 

[Appleman3546]

Sounds like Apple may be forced to allow apps to be downloaded from a browser soon by a country, just like on a Mac

 

[The Barron]

Russia can go suck eggs!

 

[The Barron]

Am I the only one seeing lot of anti-Apple sentiment recently?

It's called jealously.

 

[TiggrToo]

Select apps that are approved by Apple + select others that pass a rigorous hands-on test !

ALL apps in this 2nd App Store must adhere to the primary principal of "Collects NO User Data" !

If found violating that primary principal, Banned for Life !

And who'll pay for all the technology that'll be needed to perform these checks?

 

[Wildkraut]

Like! +1 Is about time to stop these false good intentions of Apple. They need to get slammed from all sides, to make them “think different” again, instead of current greedy thinking.

 

[Jimmy James]

When you decide to shop at Walmart they don’t prevent you from from shopping elsewhere though, Apple does (no open Api for side loading or other app stores... unlike every other OS).

This wouldn’t be a problem if they were some small company, it is a problem though because they own not only the platform but the ACCESS to a huge chunk of people.

When you shop at Apple they don’t prevent you from shopping elsewhere. It’s not the only App Store.

Degrading security is not worth the ability to side load apps on one platform. I suspect security is the bigger government motivation than customer choice.

 

[Johnny907]

Well when the Russian court system waggles its finger at you ya know you’ve done bad.
Not that Apple cares but it’s still amusing.
[automerge]1597098526[/automerge]

When you shop at Apple they don’t prevent you from shopping elsewhere. It’s not the only App Store.

Degrading security is not worth the ability to side load apps on one platform. I suspect security is the bigger government motivation than customer choice.

It’s not? What other App Store can I shop at for my iOS products?

 

[Seoras]

The world's government see a way into the secure and private operating system that is iOS.
Break the App Store gate that has kept them and their spyware out by claiming it is anti-competitive.
The App store, and the Mac App store, give me confidence in what I download and install.
Is there another way? Allow the user to decide if they want to retain Apple's fortress or live wild and free at device setup time?

 

[bobbie424242]

"Buuuuut....it's Apple's store ! it can do what it wants !"

 

[Wildkraut]

When you shop at Apple they don’t prevent you from shopping elsewhere. It’s not the only App Store.

Degrading security is not worth the ability to side load apps on one platform. I suspect security is the bigger government motivation than customer choice.

The security excuse is pure marketing, they love to fool people that has no clue.
In contrary this would mean, that current macOS is not secure at all, and everybody should stop using macOS devices right now.

I mean, i have nothing against a msg saying “Hey there, you got this app from the internet, take care, and make sure you got it from a trusted site!“, but the AppStore lock-in is just wrong and anticompetitive. macOS is currently doing it right, but without antitrust it will end locked like iOS. The next Apple macOS ARM platform is perfect to achieve this goal, they will soon introduce a locked down macOS, because it’s already slowly transitioning to this direction with signed apps, kexts, etc. A subtle “security related” change here and there with every new macOS, so people don’t notice when the handcuffs clicks. And suddenly you will just be able to install Mac Apps only from AppStore, Apple gets their x%, owns a device kill switch, and decides what you‘re allowed to use.

Ohhh and of course all JUST for security reasons.
Look Ma, they care for us!

 

[VictorTango777]

A lot of anti-Russia sentiment in this thread. Maybe someone needs to send more love letters.

 

[Wildkraut]

A lot of anti-Russia sentiment in this thread. Maybe someone needs to send more love letters.

Other countries incl. US ain’t much better... the history and current happenings speaks differently.
Somehow I’m happy that Russia and China exist the way they do, it’s like a symbiosis, and required to keep powerful countries at a stable level. Personally, I don’t trust any country, they are mainly ruled by lawyers, and greedy people, that says it all.