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Safari 1.2 Released

Re: Re: Re: Re: No Jaguar . . . sucks!!!

Originally posted by kenohki
Are you kidding me?! $129 for a web browser that works like it should?!
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Safari is free. If you don't like it don't use it. Apple is continuing to improve it.

One of the first rules of engineering is that there are ALWAYS trade-offs. In this case Apple has decided that in order to improve their browser and update it quicker that they need to leverage technologies built in to Panther.

A lot of people have been comparing this situation to Microsoft and IE. They are missing a couple fundemental flaws with that argument.

1) Microsoft has a vastly larger sum of money to spend on software development.

2) IE compatibility is at the CORE of Microsofts OS strategy. IE for Windows is inextricably linked with the OS. Safari is a minor application in Apples larger bag of stuff. Sure its great to have a good browser, but lets remember folks this isn't Apples prime focus. It would be interesting to see the number of programmers and resources each company spends on their respective browser.

It would be great if Apple had been able to develop this latest version of Safari for Jaguar as well, but who knows what kind of problems/delays that might have caused.

Many people have said that they won't use Safari anymore. Fantastic, choose the product that you feel is better, freedom of choice is great. Safari is an option, its not your God-given right to have it on your computer.
 
Originally posted by jvaska
totall bull**** detected here...totally...

and purchasing an entire network of computers that have numerous security problems...including inferior operating system software that allows hackers to simply send emails to a user and take down an entire network...

ok, i guess this IS acceptable by any CIO then...

i happen to think you could be out of a job if it weren't for MS Outlook...

whine...whine...whine...

😡
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Hey, I might not agree with it either but you can't argue with the marketshare numbers. Windows keeps on being deployed on the desktop and Apple ain't making much of a dent in the marketshare numbers. If we move to anything other than Windows it would probably be Linux and only because we have IBM global services hanging around. (Although our CIO is quoted as saying "Linux over my dead body".)

As for Exchange/Outlook, the other alternatives are Lotus Notes or Groupwise or something of the like, which will not be deployed here.

And no, I wouldn't be out of a job because I don't support our Exchange installation. I'm a web application developer.
 

That's a double-edged sword. Some people don't want to spend money updating their OS every 1.5 years.
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Then don't, no one is holding a gun to your head. Its not like your computer is going to suddenly stop working if you don't have the latest and greatest on your machine.


Win98 is gonna be supported at least until 2006 now. That's a lot!
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As in technical support. That doesn't mean they are going to keep writing software for it. They might, but it doesn't mean they have to. What it does mean is that if you call Microsoft with a problem with Win98 that they will have kept the information and staff trained to handle it. Eventually you stop doing that with older products because you just don't have time to waste on a small small segment of the market.
My guess is that System 7 doesn't get much in the way of tech support from Apple these days either.


It's sad that jaguar users are left alone. Win2k did get explorer 6.0
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How are they being left alone? its not like Apple isn't keeping the previous version of Safari available for Jaguar users. And its not like there aren't any other browsers available.
 
Wait a minute...

Apple doesn't have to make a web browser at all. Its not like there is some law that says THOU SHALT MAKE A WEB BROWSER. Why do people assume that they have the right to something (which is free anyway) when its just an added bonus?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No Jaguar . . . sucks!!!

Originally posted by Krizoitz
One of the first rules of engineering is that there are ALWAYS trade-offs. In this case Apple has decided that in order to improve their browser and update it quicker that they need to leverage technologies built in to Panther.

A lot of people have been comparing this situation to Microsoft and IE. They are missing a couple fundemental flaws with that argument.

1) Microsoft has a vastly larger sum of money to spend on software development.

2) IE compatibility is at the CORE of Microsofts OS strategy. IE for Windows is inextricably linked with the OS. Safari is a minor application in Apples larger bag of stuff. Sure its great to have a good browser, but lets remember folks this isn't Apples prime focus. It would be interesting to see the number of programmers and resources each company spends on their respective browser.
Click to expand...


And there are two problems with your argument:

1) Safari is based on KHTML which is open source. So Apple has more than just their own developers working on this.

2) By tying Safari 1.2 to OS 10.3 features, Apple IS tying their browser into the core of their OS. They are just doing it in a way that precludes backward compatibility. Also, one of Apple's main focuses should be Safari now that they got MS to discontinue IE becasue of it.
 
Originally posted by kenohki
Hey, I might not agree with it either but you can't argue with the marketshare numbers.
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that wasn't really my point...to be more blunt...

use another browser...camino and firebird are better anyways...

no need to keep whining about safari 1.2 (something you clearly can't have)...or, you could simply switch back to using a pc...

voila
 
Take a look at todays MacPoll results. As of writing this Panther is the overwhelming OS choice (over 80%) so why shouldn't Apple focus their development here.

My guess is they took a look at the number of people estimated to be using each OS. Realized that fewer people were using Jaguar and decided to focus their efforts on Panther.
 
Originally posted by Lancetx
If it makes you feel any better, M$ doesn't play any nicer with Windows 98 or ME users either. That's just the nature of the beast these days...
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A computer sold 1,5 years ago should still be supported imo. Windows XP is older than my computer and still supported. 2000 is even older than XP and still supported.
 
Originally posted by Poff
A computer sold 1,5 years ago should still be supported imo. Windows XP is older than my computer and still supported. 2000 is even older than XP and still supported.
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And btw. the previous version of Safari is really a beta, even though they do not call it beta. It has lots of flaws and lacks. That Apple uses Jaguar-users as beta-testers, and then don´t give them a chance to get the final prduct, is sick.
 
Writing for Jaguar is painful compared to writing for Panther; 10.3 offers a ton of improvements which in turn make the application experience far better for the end user. Restricting themselves to the functionality available in the 10.2 API would have been both frustrating and counterproductive.
 
Originally posted by Krizoitz
Take a look at todays MacPoll results. As of writing this Panther is the overwhelming OS choice (over 80%) so why shouldn't Apple focus their development here.
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Of course, you´re on a Mac rumor site. You´d be a fool for thinking people browsing these sites regularily reflect the casual Mac user..
 
I am not happy about this update!

I have an old mac which I intend to upgrade in about the next six months- hence I will get 10.3 then.

I don't mind that it is 10.3 only, however Safari, fine as many of its features are, simply does not work on a lot of websites- so a simple upgrade for 10.2 would not have gone amiss- I don't care about the other new features, I just wan't a browser that works without having to use IE (which, although slow, does open all sites).

Fix Safari in 10.2 before you start leaving us out!

I don't think that is too much to ask!
 
A parable for whiners

Reading all the whining reminds me of a modern-day parable I heard a while back.

A poor man was surprised to find a $50 bill taped to his front door one day. Looking down the street, he saw a man in a bright red coat walking away. He felt very thankful to this mysterious benefactor.

The next day, another $50 bill appeared. And the day after. For a full month this continued.

Then, one day, the man looked out his window to see the man in the red coat, across the street, taping money to the door of his neighbor.

"Hey!" yelled the man out his window, shaking his fist. "Where's my fifty dollars?"
 
Originally posted by Samurai980
I hate this update just because of one little problem. They took out the direct download minus the damn dialog. Now everytime I try to download something a stupid dialog box pops up forcing me to hit enter.

😡

I hate it. I hate it with a passion. This is why I hated Mozilla/Netscape for the longest time.
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Hold down the option key and it'll save directly to your desktop

Bryan
 
Originally posted by Nermal
Needs Panther, doesn't run on Jaguar! 😱
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This is total crap... I'm very displeased with Apple for screwing around like this... I'm NOT running Panther - I plan to be in the next month or so (when I get back my taxes I'll be buying that and some other stuff)... My guess is that they'll probably release a version for Jaguar soon, but still... My apologies if this has already been covered - I haven't read most of the posts... What the heck is the big difference with Panther that they can't make the browser run on Jaguar as well??? Doesn't make any sense to me...
 
Originally posted by Krizoitz
Take a look at todays MacPoll results. As of writing this Panther is the overwhelming OS choice (over 80%) so why shouldn't Apple focus their development here.

My guess is they took a look at the number of people estimated to be using each OS. Realized that fewer people were using Jaguar and decided to focus their efforts on Panther.
Click to expand...


The major flaw with this arguement is you are talking about a majority of Mac Fanatics...we update religiously, most common users don't. I think this is wrong, I have an update I will install soon to Panther, but running Jag right now. I will update later when I upgrade OS, but it is wrong to alienate users. I understand their marketing issues, but we are talking about basic compatibility her with this web browser. I am fine with the whole OS change and leaving classic programs behind...they had to, but there is no reason to leave behind OSX users. They says over 50% *(I think) of mac users are OSX users...but I guarantee you that most users are not Panther yet and won't be for a while. I know they have provided upgrades to other software programs to only Panther users but this was done when installing Panther *(Mail, etc. all were upgraded during the upgrade in OS) and that makes sense, but this is the first time that i know of that they have provided an upgrade to only the latest users of their OS. I think they are heading down a dark road if they don't watch it. I totally support apple and will always do so! But the common user will starting looking at these "marketing tricks" and think didn't we get rid of those with M$?!?!
 
Originally posted by Poff
A computer sold 1,5 years ago should still be supported imo. Windows XP is older than my computer and still supported. 2000 is even older than XP and still supported.
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Go read my previous posts on this.

Come on folks, think about Safari and OS X for just one minute. Think about how fast OS X has changed, think about how much of a moving target OS X is, think about how much of the OS Safari uses. Think about how slim Apple's profits are, think about what a good engineer cosst, think about the amount of development and testing it would require to put Safari 1.2 on Jagaur, think about the incredible additional load on QA.

Think folks.

Do you really want Apple wasting their time doing this?

I don't.

Though I do agree with a previous poster: Apple should have an upgrade charge from Jaguar to Panther. $59 or something.

Bryan
 
Originally posted by tmeader
Can anyone verify the optgroup problem I described previously? An example of an optgroup select list can be found here:

http://oregonstate.edu/cws/tutorials/stylesheets/standards/test8.html

Thanks in advance.
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i don't know where your previous post is and i'm not going to search this whole thread for it...

what i get with optgroup is that the options themselves are not indenting in the menu...however, you are not allowed to select the actually optgroup labels...only the options can be selected...

if this is your problem...it's mine too...

it's just a label, so label it accordingly as some kind of label...like "Select from China" or something like that...

but this does look like a new bug...i didn't have this problem yesterday morning on pre 1.2...

good luck...v
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No Jaguar . . . sucks!!!

Originally posted by Krizoitz
Safari is free. If you don't like it don't use it. Apple is continuing to improve it.
Many people have said that they won't use Safari anymore. Fantastic, choose the product that you feel is better, freedom of choice is great. Safari is an option, its not your God-given right to have it on your computer.
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This is true, but it is our right to voice OUR opinion as well. This is a way of providing Apple with feedback on their decision. You probalby very well know that it is these types of message boards that CAN influence companies like Apple to change their ways based on consumer feedback. Get over the fact that some on this board don't agree with you, stop "slamming" them with a negative tone of voice and enjoy the diversity you read about here. If we were all the same and agreed on everything we would have nothing to talk about...posts would all look the same. I do get sick of the wining too and agree that everyone should :"vote": with their dollar, but it is a very positive thing to provide feedback, discussion, etc on products and services through these message boards!
 
Reply to bryanzak...

Yes, I already have reported a bug... but you seem to miss the point that this was a bug introduced in an UPGRADE (meant to FIX bugs). It didn't work right to begin with, since you can highlight and click on the optgroup labels (which is NOT correct HTML 4.0 spec behavior) and I filed a bug for THAT back then. But at least then it was indented. Now, not only is that bug still not fixed, but the options aren't even indented... rendering the whole optgroup tag useless. Thus I'm now forced to write a pointless kludge that checks to see if you're running Safari 1.2, and then indent any option items under optgroup tags manually.
 
open in new tab...

Am I crazy? I have two Macs both running panther and on both safari 1.2 behaves erratically when you “Open Link in New Tab”. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn’t. This occurs especially when you select this by command + clicking which I do constantly. On one machine this wont work at all anymore.

And why don’t link states (colors of active, visited links) update automatically? Like if you have a google search result page in one tab and you load the results into new tabs… The links on the launch page should update in style + color automatically so you can tell where you've already been. Hate to say it but this happens on windows.
 
Re: Tabbing into drop downs works great - try before posting

Originally posted by schreiman
Tabbing into drop down menus works wonderfully. Please try it before posting how stupid Apple is -
Goto www.amazon.com
[tab] - brings you to their "sections" drop down
[space] - drops the menu down
try [e], [v]
WATCH it go first to "electronics", then "everything"
Very slick, deals with unordered lists appropriately.
I'm happy. Thanks Apple (finally).
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I tried this and it didnt work for me. I placed my cursor (using the mouse) in the google search bar in safari then pressed tab when I was on the amazone homepage and my curser went straight to the box underneath the drop down menu.

Scot
 
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