Safari 1.2 Released

[janey]

Originally posted by ipoddin
I dunno, maybe it's just me but sounds like a pretty messed up way of developing incremental upgrades to an OS by not making anyone of them compatible with each other...(snip)

hrm coming up with new features is messed up?
whatever 😛
you sound like you're treating new versions of OS X like a new service pack for some version of windows or something. If that's what you think, shame on you 😛 Apple just releases somewhat major updates more often than Microsoft, and comparing the two companies and their software release schedules is ridiculous.

in some ways the different versions of Mac OS X are compatible with each other, but when you got an app like Safari, that uses stuff thats in one OS but not another, it's hard for Apple to do a version for Jag along with Panther that are similar. It's not like Apple can work on two different versions of Safari at once...
what youre saying, if you still insist that it is possible and that Windows 2k == xp (and others), is that those versions of Windows are exactly the same, they really aren't updates, which is why all apps written for one version of OS X or Windows or whatever will work on another, regardless of the age of the OS. Totally ridiculous. Even though you might think some of the versions of Windows are the same, there are still some differences. Those differences are what I am talking about.
Besides, if you dont like it, why not just go with a free OS (Gentoo Linux is pretty good on ppc) or develop your own web browser. Nobody said you had to use Safari.

 

[Abstract]

Pith Helmet Fix For Safari 1.2:

open /Library/Application Support/SIMBL/Plugins/
Right click (control+click) PithHelmet.bundle and select show package contents
Open the Contents folder and from there open the info.plist file in either textedit or Property List Editor if you have the dev tools installed
Find where it says MaxSafariBundleVersion and change the value to 125
Save and restart safari. thats it, now it works.

Okay, I read up to page 9 and didn't find an answer to something I didn't understand. I thought there would be SOMEONE out there that knew as little as me about my Mac, but I guess I'm wrong. 😱

What the fudge is "Pith Helmet" and why are so many people eff'ing with it? Why were people thankful for this "fix"?

Also, why doesn't my scroll-wheel click open a new tab in Firebird like it does in Safari? All I normally do is click on a link using the scroll-wheel button (ie: the 3rd button), and it opens up the link in a new tab. This doesn't work in Firebird at all for me.

And why the hell is Safari soooooo slow when I go to a message board reply screen with 6-7 animated smilies, while Firebird handles the reply screen so much quicker? There is a 1 or 2 second delay between the time I type out my reply, and the time the text appear on the screen. 🙄

Safari is soooo good, but sooo bad, all at the same time.

 

[Krizoitz]

Originally posted by Abstract
What the fudge is "Pith Helmet" and why are so many people eff'ing with it? Why were people thankful for this "fix"?

Pith Helmet is an ad blocker for Safari. However because it mucks with some internal stuff, each new build breaks it so people have to jury rig it to work again until the author has a chance to fix it.

 

[frankly]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Man, a lot of mac zealots are comlaining that its not Apple's fault for not making it backwards compatible with 10.2...

As a recent switcher, I have to tell you how surprised I am about how if you don't keep up with the latest mac OS upgrades, you can't run a lot of software... such a thing barely exists in the PC world from Windows 98 onwards. Apple has done a lot of things that are pretty shady, from crippling non-firewire webcams in iChat, to crippling iPod USB support on macs, to requiring a 3 month old $129 OS upgrade to run a critical OS X appliation... I love macs... but some things bother me... that's just my $0.02

What a load of crap.

1) Please list this "a lot of software" that you can't run. Let's see: iChat AV, Safari 1.2, and.........???
2) What really nice programs is Microsoft giving you for free that still work with Windows 98???
3) How are non-firewire webcams crippled in iChat??? iChat needs a firewire cam to provide the type of video it is advertising.
4) crippling iPod USB support on Macs???? Have you tried this or are you just assuming? Also, every Mac in 4+ years has had firewire.....
5) What is the critical OS X application that requires the $129 OS upgrade???

Later, Frank

 

[frankly]

Originally posted by übergeek
REALLY THIS IS ALL INSANE I CANT BELIEVE HALF OF YOU n00bs INSIST YOU MUST GET A JAGUAR COMPATIBLE COPY OF SAFARI 1.2 BECAUSE YOU PAID FOR JAGUAR.

Ookay does anyone *actually* understand why it is TECHNOLOGICALLY difficult for Apple to release a Jag compatible Safari? Any Mac developer with any common sense who spent a minute developing with both versions of OS X will understand that they're in no way similar to each other.
LOOK I'm sorry, but Windows 98 and ME are practically the same except ME is ****tier. NT/2k/XP are similar too. Microsoft only has to make 2 versions of their software. On the other hand, with every OS update Apple has to work on a new one because OS X v. 10 is not the same as 10.1 or 10.2 or 10.3. You cant just get the same damned code and compile it for another OS. It practically needs a rewrite, and that takes excessive amounts of time and money. Besides, half the stuff they probably use in safari are unavailable on the older versions of the OS - same reason why you cant get an Objective-C/Cocoa/Project Builder/Xcode tutorial based on 10.1 and expect the code and the apps to work the same way in 10.3. If you want a half-baked Safari 1.2 for Jaguar...whatever man *shrug*

Half of you n00bs are complaining about stuff that Apple can't really do anything about. What would you rather have backwards compatibility or R&D? Because if you said backwards compatibility, Apple's gonna be in deep **** because they wont be able to compete with anyone else. One of the reasons why people get Macs is because Apple actually spends a good deal of time and money making their apps good. If Apple were to give up all that research and development, I might as well switch to using Linux or Windows again.

ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO SAY YOU'VE INSTALLED SAFARI OVER AND OVER AND IT REFUSES TO WORK: I know at least one person said that they're not a n00b and that they know some stuff about Mac OS X. Please don't say that again, because that just shows that you are sorta...a n00b. All you have to do is to delete the prefs file in /Users/(your user name)/Library/Preferences. It's a file that has "Safari" in it. It's like com.apple.Safari.plist. If that doesnt work try fixing permissions. Yeesh, even that you could have searched on these forums.

I am not one of those that has been bashing Apple but your arguments here don't help our cause. You are attacking people with lame arguments and name calling while claiming to be an ubergeek yourself. OS X versions have not been so dramatically different that apps need to be rewritten to work with each version. Look at Office, IE, BBEdit, Appleworks, Watson, Limewire, GraphicConverter, etc. etc. etc. What you should have said was that applications that depend heavily on the OS may be hard to rewrite. Even then however it may not be hard. Look at RBrowser, Toast, etc. Safari may depend much more heavily on the OS and that may be the reason why there is not a Jaguar version.

However, we don't know this for a fact. Maybe Apple just didn't want to release a version for Jaguar and maybe it really was too hard. We can only speculate.

Now, as far as you bashing people for saying that Safari doesn't work, that is just wrong. I am one of those that had a problem. After the upgrade Safari would not load applets. I did not post this to complain but instead to find someone that might have a solution. I am about as far from a noob as anyone can be. I have been using a Mac since the SE in 1988, currently own 3 Macs, have been running OS X every day since 10.1, and I am working on my Master's degree in Computer Science. Far from a noob and it rubs me the wrong way that instead of offering help you choose to bash those asking for help.

I found a solution to my problem on www.macfixit.com

It seems the problem was with the Java 1.4.2 update and the problem was fixed by deleting some files and running the standalone installer.

Later, Frank

 

[MacNut]

Could it be that Apple wants people to swich to Panther and that they just dont care about Jaguar anymore, Its how companies make money, they force you to upgrade for things to work.

 

[raynegus]

Well I guess it's time for you whiners to upgrade to 10.3

Now Safari finally works with my local library website! I can trash Explorer once and for all. Now if Apple will come out with iWrite so I can trash crappy Word, I can purge my system of microsh*t once and for all.

What I don't get is why anyone would want to cling to Jag when you can have Panther? Panther rocks! Upgrade already!

 

[edenwaith]

🙁

Sorry, but I'm going to have to give this release a negative rating since Safari 1.2 is for Panther only. I can understand Apple's desire to move away from OS 9, but it is starting to look like that with every new iteration of Mac OS X, they are trying to alienate more and more of their users by requiring the latest version of their OS to run their software. Yes, I am glad they make frequent updates to their OS, and yes, I enjoy seeing their new software, but things are perhaps getting a little out of control if no one with OS 10.1 or 10.2 can run the software.

However, if anyone wants to donate several thousand dollars to me so I can buy a new Mac...

 

[crees!]

Re: safari is pretty dumb at visited links

Originally posted by tileeater
it's amazing that safari still can't update the color / style of links on the fly as a page is loaded into say, another tab...

this would be very useful for google searches. having the results in tab and loading links into another. but how do you tell where you've already been? you have to freaking reload the page! pathetic!

People who make web pages today sometimes use things called Cascading Style Sheets which override the colors of links in their various states. This would make them not turn purple like you were use to in 1990.

 

[MacNut]

So Apple should not improve their software and never move forward with new and innovative things, Apple has to make a cut off point at some time and say either upgrade or your out of luck. So why should Apple even bother to upgrade at all if you people are gonna complain about why software doesn't run on your computer. This is a computer company and its not there duty to wait for everyone to upgrade if Apple waited for everyone to upgrade before making a new software revision we would never get new software. You all want Apple to stay in buisness but never upgrade.

 

[frankly]

Re: 🙁

Originally posted by edenwaith
Sorry, but I'm going to have to give this release a negative rating since Safari 1.2 is for Panther only. I can understand Apple's desire to move away from OS 9, but it is starting to look like that with every new iteration of Mac OS X, they are trying to alienate more and more of their users by requiring the latest version of their OS to run their software. Yes, I am glad they make frequent updates to their OS, and yes, I enjoy seeing their new software, but things are perhaps getting a little out of control if no one with OS 10.1 or 10.2 can run the software.

However, if anyone wants to donate several thousand dollars to me so I can buy a new Mac...

1) iPhoto, iCal, iSync, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, Garage Band, AppleWorks, FileMaker, Final Cut Express, Keynote, Logic Express, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Shake, and Soundtrack ALL WORK WITH 10.2
2) Safari and iChat AV only work with 10.3
3) Why do you need a new Mac to run Safari??? Any Mac that can run Jaguar can run Panther so you should only need around $100.

Later, Frank

 

[MacNut]

Safari will still run with 10.2 just not the update, I don't see the big deal, so you can't have the newest version that doesn't mean you cannot use safari at all. If its that big a deal either buy Panther or if your that upset at Apple by a PC

 

[zync]

Originally posted by frankly
So, because Apple adds great new features to their OS more often than Microsoft does we should be mad???

The added features in Jaguar and now Panther far outweigh any new features we saw in ME and now XP. So, because Apple added more features in two years than Microsoft has in six years we should be mad at Apple??????

I know I'm not. This is one of the reasons that I will continue to choose a Mac over a Windows machine every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Later, Frank

To your first statement. No, we shouldn't be mad...that's absolutely great. What isn't great is what you said about ME and XP. ME was total crap and to go from it to XP (I'm talking about the Pro or Corporate edition, BTW) was monumental! That's like the difference between 95 and 98! Have you used a windows operating system? XP kept me from switching to linux or Mac OS sooner! First of all the kernels are completely different and XP is built from NT. XP is actually stable. This is like going from OS 8 to Jaguar or Panther (I'm not counting 10.1 as it was practically beta). Still, I'll be using my mac thank you! It's nice when everyone was complaining about that stupid new windows virus the other day and I proposed a solution: Use a mac. 😀

Anyway, Apple fixed my two complaints about Safari before I even got around to complaining about them and it's worked with my bank, but then angain I use a credit union just in my state and just for teachers (incl. relatives of teachers and relatives of relatives....in other words anyone 🙂)! They finally make it grab images from temp instead or re-downloading it to save (pain if you're on dialup) and they allow you to save wherever instead of to the desktop or whatever folder you specify. I guess the tabbing will be nice now too...I finally was able to remove IE from my dock....who knows, maybe eventually I'll even be able to delete it from my system!

 

[zync]

Re: Re: For you ESL students

Originally posted by ipoddin
Yes I understand.

I now have to PAY $129 in order to get support and upgrades for a free application. Any future enhancements will also never be available to me, even though it's still free to those who upgrade their OS. If you had to pay to upgrade Safari then you'd have a valid point.

For the most part, I'm on your side. I wish they'd give you Safari 1.2 (disregarding the fact that it'd actually be completely different due to different libraries) but you don't understand the difference between upgrades and support. 10.2 is still supported but you don't get updates for it anymore. And the fact that it was current 4 months ago doesn't matter because it was current for like another 12 before that (to all you people with that argument). He did have a valid point, although the way he presented it wasn't exactly nice 🙂 Apple has it set that as long as you have 10.x you get all the updates for 10.x until it becomes 10.y. That's just how it's worked with OSX...I agree it is a frustrating system when it comes to new features but you can't complain that things like Exposé weren't included/developed in Jaguar. That's almost like saying you should be given a start bar in Windows 3.1. They have to have some marketable features that will make you upgrade otherwise what's the point in devloping new systems if they just give you everything new they're coding?

 

[zync]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Man, a lot of mac zealots are comlaining that its not Apple's fault for not making it backwards compatible with 10.2...

As a recent switcher, I have to tell you how surprised I am about how if you don't keep up with the latest mac OS upgrades, you can't run a lot of software... such a thing barely exists in the PC world from Windows 98 onwards. Apple has done a lot of things that are pretty shady, from crippling non-firewire webcams in iChat, to crippling iPod USB support on macs, to requiring a 3 month old $129 OS upgrade to run a critical OS X appliation... I love macs... but some things bother me... that's just my $0.02

I hope you're not talking about Safari because as far as I'm concerned Safari is not a critical application. It's not like if you turn on your Jaguar box and don't have Safari 1.2 installed it's going to crash and ignite your computer. There are plenty of alternatives which many believe are even better than either IE or Safari. Secondly, IE still works and it isn't outdated as someone before said. It may not be more efficient or better looking but it does indeed work with more sites than Safari (however I have noticed that it handles web pages I made for Windows IE better than Mac IE 🙂).

And don't get me started on Windows having problems with backward compatibility! I am also a recent switcher and know a whole bunch about the "other side." First of all Office had various issues with compatibility among it's versions. Secondly, in XP you have compatibility layers for older programs and they don't always work. And let's not even go there for drivers. Sure XP has a lot of driver support, but not everything is XP yet, even now. Certain companies are slow to develop drivers for XP, so slow in fact that they should probably just quit now and work on Longhorn. Oh and howabout the biggest, worst, most annoying example of backwards compatibility issues on Mac OR Windows (I avoid PC because anything is technically a "personal computer")...guess what company that might be? Nope, it's not Microsoft, which should be expected. As a matter of fact it's MACROMEDIA! One of my profs once said (keep in mind he was a professional, doing audio/video for Sony, MTV, etc. the list is pretty endless 🙂) that he hates Macromedia because "everytime they sneeze you have to upgrade." Talk about backwards compatibility....I'm not even going to detail this one, if you don't know you shouldn't even argue any point on backwards compatibility.

Somehow I don't see "crippling" USB support with iPods on Macs as a shady tactic. There are many possibilities for this 1. they'd have to develop USB support for it when they already had firewire support. Maybe the next iPod will support firewire 800 and many new macs won't need to have USB2 support and they wouldn't have to develop anything for it then. Or maybe it's the simple fact that many macs still have firewire 400 and USB1.1. If I'm not mistaken only the G5's, new iMacs and iBooks, and new PowerBooks have USB2 support. In other words they user base for USB2 might not be that large and they'll probably incorporate it into the next iTunes release which you'll probably get.

 

[zync]

Originally posted by übergeek
REALLY THIS IS ALL INSANE I CANT BELIEVE HALF OF YOU n00bs INSIST YOU MUST GET A JAGUAR COMPATIBLE COPY OF SAFARI 1.2 BECAUSE YOU PAID FOR JAGUAR.

Ookay does anyone *actually* understand why it is TECHNOLOGICALLY difficult for Apple to release a Jag compatible Safari? Any Mac developer with any common sense who spent a minute developing with both versions of OS X will understand that they're in no way similar to each other.
LOOK I'm sorry, but Windows 98 and ME are practically the same except ME is ****tier. NT/2k/XP are similar too. Microsoft only has to make 2 versions of their software. On the other hand, with every OS update Apple has to work on a new one because OS X v. 10 is not the same as 10.1 or 10.2 or 10.3. You cant just get the same damned code and compile it for another OS. It practically needs a rewrite, and that takes excessive amounts of time and money. Besides, half the stuff they probably use in safari are unavailable on the older versions of the OS - same reason why you cant get an Objective-C/Cocoa/Project Builder/Xcode tutorial based on 10.1 and expect the code and the apps to work the same way in 10.3. If you want a half-baked Safari 1.2 for Jaguar...whatever man *shrug*

A little insulting to some people but in all that's pretty much what I was writing....didn't realize it had been talked about already....but basically this is what I was trying to say 🙂

Originally posted by Krizoitz
1) Safari is hardly a critical OS X application, especially given the plethora of alternatives

2) No one is requiring you to purchase Panther to run Safari, Apple has made 1.0 availble to users from the begining.

Again...the same...

 

[Poff]

Btw. how hard could it be to make a web-browser not work on both versions of an OS? I mean, add to it a couple of megabytes, where it checks which OS you use, and install some different files depending on your OS. Safari maybe had to rely on Panther to speed it up, but strange how Camino and other browsers are faster than Safari.. With a bit better programming it could have worked nice on both versions of OS X.


Sometimes I miss the Windows world, where someone would have come up with a crack by now (or soon) that would make it possible to use Safari 1.2 on 10.2... 🙁 makes me want to learn to do some programming myself..

 

[zync]

Re: Re: safari is pretty dumb at visited links

Originally posted by crees!
People who make web pages today sometimes use things called Cascading Style Sheets which override the colors of links in their various states. This would make them not turn purple like you were use to in 1990.

Mean, but funny....oh so funny...although I don't think the links on Google are defined by CSS....but still funny 😀

Sorry to have posted so many posts in a row...figured someone else would respond between them in the time I wrote and read the next one....oh well...forgive me 🙂

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Poff
Btw. how hard could it be to make a web-browser not work on both versions of an OS? I mean, add to it a couple of megabytes, where it checks which OS you use, and install some different files depending on your OS. Safari maybe had to rely on Panther to speed it up, but strange how Camino and other browsers are faster than Safari.. With a bit better programming it could have worked nice on both versions of OS X.


Sometimes I miss the Windows world, where someone would have come up with a crack by now (or soon) that would make it possible to use Safari 1.2 on 10.2... 🙁 makes me want to learn to do some programming myself..

Again, it might not be technically possible. Maybe Safari 1.2 calls up functions that are unavailable in 10.2. But If you have made the jump to 10.2 from 9.2 or 10.0 or 10.1, I don't see any reason not to go to 10.3, apart from the cost of upgrading. Even then, you can pick up some cheap upgrade CDs on eBay, I'm sure.

 

[Poff]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Again, it might not be technically possible. Maybe Safari 1.2 calls up functions that are unavailable in 10.2. But If you have made the jump to 10.2 from 9.2 or 10.0 or 10.1, I don't see any reason not to go to 10.3, apart from the cost of upgrading. Even then, you can pick up some cheap upgrade CDs on eBay, I'm sure.

Of course it is technically possible, it´s just a web-browser. They might have to make some more files, and the program might be a bit slower on Jag than Panther, but it doesn´t include any technically groundbreaking features that couldn´t be made on Jaguar.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally posted by Poff
Of course it is technically possible, it´s just a web-browser. They might have to make some more files, and the program might be a bit slower on Jag than Panther, but it doesn´t include any technically groundbreaking features that couldn´t be made on Jaguar.

The Foundation(CoreFoundation) and AppKit APIs, along side Quartz 2D and Quartz 3D were enhanced and streamlined for System Wide reuse.

Now that Safari utilizes and depends upon these services it would require Apple taking Dev Cycles to stop working on 10.4 and backporting the redesigned underpinnings of 10.3+ for 10.2.

The return on investment for them would be what?

The more the OS gets streamlined the more rapidly it will result in a stable and consistent development platform.

Personally, if you wait for 10.4 I'm sure you'll feel the $129 from 10.2 was well worth it by then. Or perhaps not and you were hoping for a one time purchase and free upgrades for life?

Do you think OS XI is going to be more focused on 64 Bit migration or 32 Bit continuation?

Take a guess.

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Poff
Of course it is technically possible, it´s just a web-browser. They might have to make some more files, and the program might be a bit slower on Jag than Panther, but it doesn´t include any technically groundbreaking features that couldn´t be made on Jaguar.

That's not what I'm talking about. Of course it would be technically possible for Apple. I'm talking about the feasibility of a hack to make it work on Jag.

 

[bryanzak]

It's all still OS X regardless. If Panther were an entirely new OS written from scratch then I'd understand. But imo, 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3 are like Win NT/2k/XP. All really built upon the same base and in Window's case, most software written for one of those OS'es will work for all of them.

Jagaur is built on top of Darwin 6
Panther is built on top of Darwin 7


These are MAJOR releases of the underlying OS. It's not all just OS X -- each release brings significant change and that change trickles throughout the entire OS. That's what you get when you rapidly and iteratively develop something.


Bryan

 

[BagelTycoon]

Panther upgrade pre-requisite

Originally posted by ipoddin
I now have to PAY $129 in order to get support and upgrades for a free application. Any future enhancements will also never be available to me, even though it's still free to those who upgrade their OS.

It's not that Panther's a pre-req for any Safari 1.2 upgrade that bugs me; it's that Apple blew it by being not being up-front that it only works with Panther, but not Jaguar.

I only found this out after going to the Safari download page. The software requirements are only listed after the 'download Safari' button. Why make folks click first, only to find out later that it won't work on 10.2.x?

There's nothing on the main Safari page that even hints at pre-reqs.

It's a rather bass-ackwards way of doing things.

 

[7on]

I can't believe noone has mentioned that Safari now prints better. aka smaller margins. Still cuts images in half if it spans 2 pages though...