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They didnt copy EMV Tokenization NFC payments (which happens to be really the most secure mobile payment system on the market right now) tagged along with Touch ID and iBeacon as extra layers of security all into one lovely extremely simple and extremely secure and intuivative system like Apple Pay is

um hello google wallet and the very first phone (samsung galaxy nexus) to support nfc uses emv tokenization.it's part of the freaking nfc standard requirement

I used nfc mobile payment on my nexus before apple even had a freaking lte 4G phone going on 4 years ago now to buy a pair of sneakers in my local mall
 
um hello google wallet and the very first phone (samsung galaxy nexus) to support nfc uses emv tokenization.it's part of the freaking nfc standard requirement

I used nfc mobile payment on my nexus before apple even had a freaking lte 4G phone going on 4 years ago now to buy a pair of sneakers in my local mall

Google wallet doesnt use EMV tokenization specification actually thats the thing. Google wallet uses cloud based tokenization which is less secure then local based tokenization that is based on EMV specification, thats the thing.
 
Google wallet doesnt use EMV tokenization specification actually thats the thing. Google wallet uses cloud based tokenization which is less secure then local based tokenization that is based on EMV specification, thats the thing.

It uses both
 

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It uses both

But doesnt use EMV specification. Local based tokenization with EMV specification is more secure then Google wallets cloud and local based tokenization that is NOT based on EMV specification and doesnt have touch ID and iBeacon as extra security layers
 
...except it's not a swipe only card. Loop Pay simply duplicates a card that you currently have in your wallet. If the card's issuing bank offers an EMV card, the merchant liability is there. Just because Loop Pay is swipe only doesn't make the actual card associated with Loop Pay a "swipe only" card.

That's a really good point. Apparently right now you would be asked to dip the real chip card.

However, according to LoopPay, they have a solution in the works for this.

Most merchant account providers are offering free incentives to upgrade to EMV compatible Point of Sale systems, including lots of free equipment.

Which include backward compatible magstripe reading, because there are far more non-chip credit, debit and gift cards out there, and will be for years to come.

==> Also note that Samsung can include NFC support AS WELL AS LoopPay support in their phones.

That way, you could have the best of both worlds available when you hold the device near a terminal. NFC if it takes it, LoopPay otherwise.

To be clear, I spent more than a year (and a lot of time and resource of my client) in looking strategically at the global payments business as a whole (of which consumer transactions are just a part) and the model Apple has come up with is genuinely revolutionary - to the extent that when it was announced even I was surprised by the thinking behind it.

Why? Apple Pay uses standard EMV tokenization. That's what's so great about it.

That said, in my view, for what it's worth, Apple will/must eventually roll this out to other platforms under licence, this is one thing they would be foolish to try to keep for themselves.

The NFC token payment part is not proprietary to Apple. The only part... besides their in-app payments... that might (or might not) be, is their interface to the banks to register cards.
 
iPhone 6 is my daily driver. Nexus 5 is my backup phone. As long as Touchwiz is around, i won't own a Samsung device.

makes sense to always use apple pay. unfortunately samsung is playing catchup here and so this will appeal and keep those who are loyal to android and samsung

imo this will not attract anyone from the iOS side (iOS to android) and nor should it.
 
Perhaps they told Samsung where to go? But yeah, what did happen there?

Anyway, what did people expect? And Apple were not the first anyway so Samsung is just playing catch up. Meh I still won't be able to use any wireless system where I am in the UK, Apple pay or otherwise..

Well, I don't blame Samsung for wanting to do it and true, Apple is not the first to do it, but as usual, it appears the first to do it right. I just hope they hurry up and bring it in UK.
 
Why not? That seems very likely to me. The reader doesn't even know it's not a card, so how would it think it isn't "present"?

Apple had to cut deals to get "present" with their system.

Of course they get the card present rate. No one knows it isn't the real card in the chain. That said, it won't work once EMV gets fully enabled. You'll just get a message asking for the card to be inserted and you'll need to use the real card.

Yes they will get card-present rates. The key to LoopPay is just that it STRONGLY transmits the same magnetic stripe info that your credit card feeds through the swiper. The reader knows no difference.

The downside is that the actually mag stripe info is now stored with LoopPay AND on your phone. No tokenization.

My thought here is if the merchant asks to see the credit card to verify the signature and the customer does not have the card present to show it then how can it be verified? I have been asked many times to hand over my credit card and drivers license to compare signatures and my photo ID. I guess that is more a matter of the merchant being willing to accept LoopPay without being able to see the actual card.

Apple Pay dodges this because it uses the Touch ID fingerprint verification which is actually more secure then your signature. The banks trust that fingerprint verification more than an easily forged signature.

But I can see the point of this getting card present rates when the merchant does not ask for the card because the card reader knows no different. Of course once EMV cards with secure chips on them become standard then accepting LoopPay might make the merchant liable for fraud.

Interesting stuff and some good points in your replies
 
look at the whole first page of the thread and the "COPYCATS!" comments.

There's a lot of forgetful confused people.

people who conveniently forget that Google and Samsung both had NFC based payment capabilities for a few years now in some markets.

Apple is late to the NFC / Payment party.

And yet in the USA most places I go to don't use NFC POS devices. Heck, Panara doesn't even have them at all registers. So what exactly is Apple late to?
 
But I can see the point of this getting card present rates when the merchant does not ask for the card because the card reader knows no different. Of course once EMV cards with secure chips on them become standard then accepting LoopPay might make the merchant liable for fraud.

Correct, the bank has no idea if the merchant looked at the card. LoopPay counts as a card-present transaction.

After the fraud liability shift on October 1, merchants are liable for transactions with LoopPay (unless the card it was copied from didn't have a chip). A chip-enabled terminal SHOULD NOT allow cards to be swiped without making several attempts at inserting the card and visibly alerting the cashier to be suspicious though beeping.

Walmart has, at least for now, foregone this critical security feature. You can swipe a chip card at Walmart and it works fine - the terminals never prompt for the card to be inserted. This does not qualify as technical fallback, and if Walmart doesn't change this behaviour by October 1, LoopPay will still work but Walmart will be liable for any fraud resulting from it (and any other card swiped transaction from a chip card).
 
not the point

That's not the point. Stick to what is the debate here. Who came out with what first? NFC payments have been used by other companies long b4 Apple.

That's not the point, Betamax preceded VHS but VHS totally replaced Betamax for consumers. ApplePay is once again Apple leading the way with a system that actually works and is accepted by a rapidly expanding base of retail outlets. Samsung adoption of Loop is the desperate action of a drowning company.

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Out of curiosity, why do you say that Google Wallet is more powerful than Apple Pay?

I'll second that, just where can you use this more powerful Google Wallet?
Certainly not in any retail outlet within 100 miles of my home!
 
You realize Apple was the one playing catch up here, right? Google Wallet was out long before Apple Pay was a thing.

If you come later and leave the firstcomer in the dust instantly, I wouldn't call that "playing catch up".
 
What happened to their partnership with PayPal?

You may want to do some research to understand the difference between what apple pay does and what PayPal does.

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And yet in the USA most places I go to don't use NFC POS devices. Heck, Panara doesn't even have them at all registers. So what exactly is Apple late to?

To state the obvious, the rest of the world . If the world is the USA, you are correct, now in the actual world, they are very late to the game .

Though I suspect apple sees the world as the USA, so you are correct.
 
I pity the check-out clerk having to manage the variety of payment processes as they evolve. But mostly I cringe at the thought of waiting in line while the "less-robust" methods are being fiddled by clerk/customer -- I just know that someday I'll be in a hurry to buy something and end up behind some f'tard delaying checkout while they fuss with their CurrentC, LoopPay, Apple Pay, MongoPay, iPay, uPay, WeAllPay ...

I don't -- think of the market for the POS device vendors! The one that can make a device that works with multiple/all systems will be the best product, and so stores that make enough won't have to buy multiple devices. Also, if there's any industry that will do a good job of working very well, very easily and very reliably, for both vendor and vendee – it's the industry of transferring money.

Without disagreeing with your comment, I will add that Apple's "wait" had two other very important aspects. First is that it waited for EMV to do "tokenization", which is critically important to AP. The second - perhaps fortuitous and accidental - is that the change to chip cards (mandated by EMV) happens by next October. So most POS terminals will have to be upgraded or replaced by then, and the overwhelming scheme is to include NFC capability as part of that upgrade/replace scenario. Google didn't have that years ago when it rolled out its Wallet - there were some NFC-enabled stores but not that many. But with Apple making its move a year before the change deadline, it provided a lot of rationale for vendors of POS systems to push NFC as part of the replace/upgrade package, and for companies to buy it. They already had to upgrade/replace (with few exceptions) so adding the NFC "thingie" into the package seems like an easy sell. After all, for many companies the major cost is not the hardware but the fact that you have to go around and touch every piece of equipment. The last thing they want to do is to have to do that twice.

Coming back to your original point - Samsung's reaction is interesting. Buying LoopPay is an obvious play - except that its core mechanism has only about six months to live. Samsung does some unusual things but this doesn't seem to be one of them. There's obviously something else in the company that S finds valuable. Maybe technology-under-development, maybe customer base, maybe something else. But there has to be something else - the basic LoopPay stuff is too short term.

I guess we'll see "in the fullness of time" :)

This was the most coherent and informative paragraph I've read on this topic, let alone on a comment forum on any site. Hats off, my friend.

It's like saying that fan has been around for years while Air Conditioner is a much better choice.

lmao :D
 
You may want to do some research to understand the difference between what apple pay does and what PayPal does.

PayPal does instant payments by using fingerprint scanner on the Galaxy phone. Apple Pay makes instant payment using fingerprint scanner on iPhone's. Both do same thing but on a different ways and one is more secure then the other.
 
Loop pay seemed to me gaining some traction and looked to me ok for people that wanted to pay with their devices. So I wonder if this acquisition will allow loop pay to continue on as it was or will samsung interject some of its ideology?
 
PayPal does instant payments by using fingerprint scanner on the Galaxy phone. Apple Pay makes instant payment using fingerprint scanner on iPhone's. Both do same thing but on a different ways and one is more secure then the other.

Close. Let's change the question , my fault, how is PayPal and loopPay different ? The answer also relates to why apple choose to go thier own way.
 
Close. Let's change the question , my fault, how is PayPal and loopPay different ? The answer also relates to why apple choose to go thier own way.

I got to be honest, I don't know much about LoopPay. My guess would be LoopPay probably is more secure then PayPal. Still, why bother partnering with PayPal at all to start with? That was what I was aiming on my initial comment.
 
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