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Samsung Portable SSD T5 revealed

dannys1 said:
Disappointing performance to be honest.
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It is a great performance. See my posts about thermal throttling on pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

On the other hand, SanDisk Extreme 900 has RAID 0 inside, which increases failure probability more than twice, since if one of the two disks inside or the controller fails, all is lost (page 2 of this thread). Not good.
 
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Marx55 said:
It is a great performance. See my posts about thermal throttling on pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

On the other hand, SanDisk Extreme 900 has RAID 0 inside, which increases failure probability more than twice, since if one of the two disks inside or the controller fails, all is lost (page 2 of this thread). Not good.
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But in reality that doesn't matter when you want performance - and the failure rate of solid state drives is very low. I've been running Raid 0 systems for 20 years now with no higher failure rate than normal, it's just not something to worry about, backup and get the best speed you can.

The problem with it is the raid controller is cheap so the random read/writes are sloooow.

The performance isn't great at all, it's adequate, it's just standard Sata III speeds we've had for over a decade now. This is no faster than me plugging in any 8 years old Sata III SSD into a USB 3.1 enclosure, the benefit is that it's slightly smaller.

I need performance primarily, so i'll wait to see what its IOPS and 4k read/writes are like - in fact i'll just buy one when its available and run my real world deployment tasks verses an 850 Pro.

The T1 has been a fantastic sturdy tool for me, by considering the 960 Pro found inside MacBook Pro's is capable of 3GB/s read and write and we have Thunderbolt 3 (2, 1 and USB 3.1 Gen 2) capable of much more than 500MB/s speeds i'd have hoped to see someone else make use of this available bandwidth by now and there were rumours it was going to be Samsung with the T5, but it isn't.

(The sooner someone makes an NVME to Thunderbolt 3 adapter case the better, then we have a mirage of faster options! - and no there isn't one yet, the current options all continue to use Sata III protocol)
 
I agree that we all would love faster drives always (me, first in line!). But how can you handle thermal throttling with a small-case external drive? Did you see the monster heat-sink enclosures of both JMR and Sonnet (page 2 of thread)? And they have yet to release new Thunderbolt 3 models due to such thermal throttling issues. Check out also that they have substantially reduced the read/write speeds of the Samsung 960 Pro inside because of that.

I have tested Samsung Portable SSD T3 and it remains cold even after booting Mac and working from it all-day-long. I would not believe such remarkable accomplishment of Samsung V-NAND technology that seems to defy the physics thermodynamics laws if I had not experience it myself, since seems impossible (all disks get hot when used, but hat one does not)! I have also tested SanDisk Extreme 900 Portable SSD and it gets extremely hot! Even LaCie Bolt3 has "all-aluminum, heat-dissipating enclosure" as they say in its web page. This is a physics thermodynamics issue that cannot be fixed with current technology. Additionally, the lack of true competition is also hindering new faster developments.

Having said that, it would be great if you post your benchmarks here. BTW, how to measure IOPS on Mac with graphical user interface (GUI)? I use QuickBench which is part of DiskTools Pro from Macware ≈ SpeedTools Utilities Pro from Intech Software for sequential read/write but have not found yet a GUI tool for random read/write on Mac (IOPS) as done with CrystalDiskMark on Windows.

Finally, what is the source for MacBook Pro using Samsung 960 Pro? Thanks.
 
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Marx55 said:
I agree that we all would love faster drives always (me, first in line!). But how can you handle thermal throttling with a small-case external drive? Did you see the monster heat-sink enclosures of both JMR and Sonnet (page 2 of thread)? And they have yet to release new Thunderbolt 3 models due to such thermal throttling issues. Check out also that they have substantially reduced the read/write speeds of the Samsung 960 Pro inside because of that.

I have tested Samsung Portable SSD T3 and it remains cold even after booting Mac and working from it all-day-long. I would not believe such remarkable accomplishment of Samsung V-NAND technology that seems to defy the physics thermodynamics laws if I had not experience it myself, since seems impossible (all disks get hot when used, but hat one does not)! I have also tested SanDisk Extreme 900 Portable SSD and it gets extremely hot! Even LaCie Bolt3 has "all-aluminum, heat-dissipating enclosure" as they say in its web page. This is a physics thermodynamics issue that cannot be fixed with current technology. Additionally, the lack of true competition is also hindering new faster developments.

Having said that, it would be great if you post your benchmarks here. BTW, how to measure IOPS on Mac with graphical user interface (GUI)? I use QuickBench which is part of DiskTools Pro from Macware ≈ SpeedTools Utilities Pro from Intech Software for sequential read/write but have not found yet a GUI tool for random read/write on Mac (IOPS) as done with CrystalDiskMark on Windows.

Finally, what is the source for MacBook Pro using Samsung 960 Pro? Thanks.
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My Sandisk doesn't get hot at all to be honest - it's just that my deployment needs are a mixture of raw sequential read and then small files which it doesn't do well at. It basically performs the same as the T1 on the small files. I don't think you can measure pure IOPS in macOS (maybe you can't but i've not seen) but a bench mark which does random reads/writes of 4k files will be useful.

SSD's don't get anywhere near as hot as spinning drives. I did have a Pegasus J2 which has fans in it and got quite hot but still - i'd take speed, bigger size and heat over small and cool. That is perhaps where just connecting an 850 Pro to a USB 3.1 adapter comes in.

I just wanted Samsung to break free of the Sata III connection and give us something else. I'm sick of being throttle to 550MB/s because of it. Hell i'd take a 960 Pro throttled down to 1000MB/s - it would still kill the Sandisk and be the same size.

You can tell it's the 960 Pro since the 2016 MacBook Pro's as Apple has always worked with Samsung's on every Macbook over the last 4-5 years or more and all their releases have the exact same specs as Samsung's latest NVME release. 2015 had the 950 in it. Just a proprietary connector. Apple even had access to sizes that weren't' available on the retail market at the time (eg 2TB drive before you could buy it from Samsung)

Be interesting to see what OWC come out with later this year with their planned Envoy Thunderbolt 3 device. I need whatever is released to be bus powered, which gives them up to 15w of power to use from an Apple TB3 port.
 
Samsung was more forthcoming about the components inside the T5 than WD was about its My Passport SSD, which comes close to the T3 in performance, but pales next to the T5—despite also having the same 10Gbps USB 3.1 interface. Where WD had “no comment,” Samsung let us know that SSD is a SATA type using a bridge chip,
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No sh*t Sherlock!! You didn't (or shouldn't) have needed Samsung to tell you that, and if you did - why on earth are you a tech journalist!

"It more or less matches internal Sata SSD speeds"

OH REALLY?! I wonder why! Oh because 10Gbps is much faster than the 6Gbps Sata III bridge it's on so of course it performs at internal sata drive speeds.

This is exactly what i'm disappointed with, I wanted something that can make out 10Gbps USB 3.1 (which is NOT cutting edge as some of these journos declared, Thunderbolt 3 is cutting edge-ish, USB 3.1 has been around for at least two years now!)

The Tweaktown summary is the best
For those in the market for a portable SSD or if you are going back for seconds, the T5 is a drive that will surely please your wallet while offering consistent performance for years to come. For me, I'm still waiting for Samsung to push the bounds of what a portable SSD can do and take advantage of Thunderbolt 3 or full on Gen 2 USB 3.1, but still, the T5 definitely comes recommended.
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dannys1 said:
My Sandisk doesn't get hot at all to be honest
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Did you boot Mac from it and worked all-day-long as I did? I tested two SanDisk Extreme 900 Portable SSD that way and they got really hot, whereas the Samsung Portable SSD T3 500 GB remained cold in the same scenario. Of course, such effect is more relevant at higher room temperatures.
 
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Marx55 said:
Did you boot Mac from it and worked all-day-long as I did? I tested two SanDisk Extreme 900 Portable SSD that way and they got really hot, whereas the Samsung Portable SSD T3 500 GB remained cold in the same scenario. Of course, such effect is more relevant at higher room temperatures.
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I have no reason to boot of them to work all day (I imagine the performance would be horrible for that, i've got 3000MB/s drives in my Macs so I don't know i'd do it)

But I boot off it to deploy computers and then for about an hour just constant read from it at max speed - it hasn't even got warm, but I wouldn't really care if it did - I don't hold it on my hand when it works. I care about performance.

Just pre-ordered a T5 from Amazon.co.uk anyway, says due for release August 28th.
 
It's now starting to show up at swedish retailers with the 500GB at a price of 2500 SEK (about 250 EUR), while the T3 500GB is 1699 SEK (~170 EUR), and the T3 1TB is 3300 SEK (~330 EUR), which means that for 80 EUR less I can get the T3 500GB and for 80 EUR more I can get the T3 1TB.

I hoped for the T5 to be priced equivalently to the T3 based on the first price indications but obviously that's not the case here. So now the question is, is the T5 that much better... Difficult decisions
 
user1234 said:
I hoped for the T5 to be priced equivalently to the T3 based on the first price indications but obviously that's not the case here. So now the question is, is the T5 that much better... Difficult decisions
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T5 is cheaper than T3 for all models at different sites like pc21 (France), Amazon USA, etc, specially for 2TB model (15.79% cheaper). It is also expected a price drop as days go on. And yes, T5 is much better than T3. See my post about it in this thread.
 
Marx55 said:
T5 is cheaper than T3 for all models at different sites like pc21 (France), Amazon USA, etc, specially for 2TB model (15.79% cheaper). It is also expected a price drop as days go on. And yes, T5 is much better than T3. See my post about it in this thread.
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It's cheaper at Amazon UK, but still not cheaper than the T3, and that particular item is not shipping to Sweden for some reason. It's slightly cheaper at Amazon DE.

I know it's much better, the question for me though is if it's 80 EUR better for my needs. Hopefully price will come down quickly here as more retailers get it in stock and start competing for sales.
 
Yet another advantage of T5 over T3 is more data reliability and TRIMM support. The important features of the Portable SSD T5 series are summarized below:

- Retention of the same maximum capacity point as the T3 (2TB) while moving to denser 64-layer V-NAND.

- Availability in multiple colors (Deep Black for the 1TB and 2TB variants, Alluring Blue for the 250GB and 500GB ones)

- Migration to a USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C interface (compared to the USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C interface in the T3), resulting in upgraded performance numbers (up to 540 MBps)

- Official compatibility with Android devices - even for hardware-encrypted volumes (similar to T3)

- Retention of the partial metal enclosure to improve heat dissipation (similar to T3)

- Migration to a newer USB 3.1 Gen 2 - SATA III bridge chip (ASMedia ASM235CM in the T5, compared to the ASM1153 in the T3)

- Support for TRIM (unavailable in the previous Samsung Portable SSDs)

Source: Samsung Portable SSD T5 Review: 64-Layer V-NAND Debuts in Retail
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11719/samsung-portable-ssd-t5-review-64layer-vnand-debuts-in-retail

Definitely, I would purchase T5.
 
Marx wrote:
"- Support for TRIM (unavailable in the previous Samsung Portable SSDs)
Source: Samsung Portable SSD T5 Review: 64-Layer V-NAND Debuts in Retail
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11719/samsung-portable-ssd-t5-review-64layer-vnand-debuts-in-retail"

VERY interesting that TRIM can be supported over a USB connection.

Actually, I've been predicting this for over a year now, that it was coming for USB as well as for thunderbolt.
(There are some in this forum who said TRIM would never be available over USB.)

Once UASP (USB SCSI protocol) was added to USB (back with USB3), I reckon it was pretty much a matter of just "working the TRIM command into" the USB controller chips.

We'll see when the first copies of the t5 drives get into Mac users' hands...
 
user1234 said:
TRIM support? That decides it then!
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I'm pretty sure TRIM is not going to work under macOS with those. The tests are showing it running under Windows with a command that works on SCSI drives, which is emulated with the UASP compatible controller on these drives.

If you end up buying one, I'd sure be interested in what you find. But I'd be very surprised if TRIM works under macOS on these.
 
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Weaselboy said:
I'm pretty sure TRIM is not going to work under macOS with those. The tests are showing it running under Windows with a command that works on SCSI drives, which is emulated with the UASP compatible controller on these drives.

If you end up buying one, I'd sure be interested in what you find. But I'd be very surprised if TRIM works under macOS on these.
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Someone else is probably going to beat me to it. I'm waiting for the prices to go down a bit here
 
Has something changed (or will it change with High Sierra) and does this TRIM support now apply to macOS beyond just Windows? I saw it was verified in Windows, which is awesome.
 
T5 1 GB is available on Amazon. But this price: +90 EUR for T5 in the same size? I am glad I got T3 for 360 EUR.

IMO T5 is not worth 450 EUR - it is pretty close to the price of ATOM RAID which performance/build quality is much better.
 
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dannys1 said:
I have no reason to boot of them to work all day (I imagine the performance would be horrible for that, i've got 3000MB/s drives in my Macs so I don't know i'd do it)

But I boot off it to deploy computers and then for about an hour just constant read from it at max speed - it hasn't even got warm, but I wouldn't really care if it did - I don't hold it on my hand when it works. I care about performance.

Just pre-ordered a T5 from Amazon.co.uk anyway, says due for release August 28th.
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To sum up : between the T3/T5 and the Sandisk, which one would you choose as a fast external cache for 4K video editing ?

After reading your last posts, it seems like that the Sandisk would be the best one... am I right ?
 
Natha said:
To sum up : between the T3/T5 and the Sandisk, which one would you choose as a fast external cache for 4K video editing ?

After reading your last posts, it seems like that the Sandisk would be the best one... am I right ?
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Yeah I think so, the 4k video files are large single files which the Sandisk excels at. Its thousands of tiny files the T5 should be quicker with (and what i'll be benchmarking on it when it arrives)
 
Ok, so I have returned T3 after I got 50 EUR off the new T5 1GB. I will report later results.
 
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