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Samsung's Massive Document Outlining How to Improve Galaxy S by Adopting iPhone Solutions Surfaces

Sora said:
True, there isn't one overt post of "Go Samsung", just a preponderance of posts in defense of their actions which pretty much equates to "Go Samsung".
See below.


Overwhelming isn't it?
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Pretty Sure Knight was just posting facts and clarification. He has no reason to be biased. He's also no "emotionally involved" with his electronics.

I know it's sometimes hard to read or hear facts when people are constantly swimming in opinions, blog entries, board posts that repeat the same fallacies over and over.
 
armhol said:
So, how does Apple know about these sorts of documents and how did they get their hands on it?
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It's part of the "discovery" process of a legal case. Samsung were required to turn over documents like this as Apple was required to turn over documents on its design work.
 
ristlin said:
Innovation implies looking at something as a basis and creating something new.

Android's notification system itself is an innovation upon the alert system present in many phones including the original iPhone. Apple, in tern, responded by innovating upon their alert system and came up with the Notification Center -- no doubt borrowing elements that Google had come up with. HOWEVER, both systems, although similar, are different.
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Android or WebOS notifications doesn't have anything in common with the original iOS notifications
 
samcraig said:
Pretty Sure Knight was just posting facts and clarification. He has no reason to be biased. He's also no "emotionally involved" with his electronics.

I know it's sometimes hard to read or hear facts when people are constantly swimming in opinions, blog entries, board posts that repeat the same fallacies over and over.
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Sure, he doesn't have a reason to be biased yet everyone who supports Apple somehow does?

Get a grip, everyone is emotionally involved when they argue. We aren't robots. He's just as riled up as anyone else.

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Oletros said:
Android or WebOS notifications doesn't have anything in common with the original iOS notifications
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Obviously, that's why I called it an innovation.
 
Zunjine said:
I think that's the interesting discussion here - where does inspiration end and copying begin. Is it in the intention or is it about the end result? Can we even apply a hard and fast rule? I don't know but I think that's a great discussion that's worth having - and we don't need to get into any silly fanboy battles over it.
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It is a very good discussion. Inspiration and copying are two very different things. When you copy something, you arrive at the same solution as the thing you copied.

When you are inspired, you arrive at a new solution. One of your own, you just needed inspiration to get there.

It takes a lot of work, intellectual work (i.e the 'design' process) and engineering work (the 'execution' of the design) to arrive at the better, the inspired, solution.

It takes orders of magnitude less work to arrive at the copied solution.

Samsung makes money by taking the short cut of copying. It is certainly disdainful, and possibly illegal.
 
In one way, I hope Samsung wins. Since future lawsuits are generally won by legal precedents, this case would allow me to copy any/every single one of you by only analyzing your cool stuff and making the same exact thing. I can be a new company with a "crisis of design" and it will be 100000% ok to copy you -- your packaging, your designs, the way your stuff appears on screen, colors, etc. Then, when you complain about how I did no research, I can clearly show that studying your product and making mine behave pretty much the same way is legal and surely counts as research.

Looking forward to seeing your stuff. Ready? Go!
 
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svenas71 said:
It is a very good discussion. Inspiration and copying are two very different things. When you copy something, you arrive at the same solution as the thing you copied.

When you are inspired, you arrive at a new solution. One of your own, you just needed inspiration to get there.

It takes a lot of work, intellectual work (i.e the 'design' process) and engineering work (the 'execution' of the design) to arrive at the better, the inspired, solution.

It takes orders of magnitude less work to arrive at the copied solution.

Samsung makes money by taking the short cut of copying. It is certainly disdainful, and possibly illegal.
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I don't know why people just can't be honest with themselves and realize this simple fact.
 
Bezetos said:
Haha, so are you implying the Notification Center was based on Apple's work?

So... Samsung is "stealing" and Apple is "borrowing and innovating".

Riiiiight....
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A few people on the forum said that both Apple and Google licensed the notification center design from a small company. I'm not saying this is true, and Googling it just gives me a bunch of fake news or biased articles about how Apple copied everything or how the iOS notification center is nothing like in Android, which it isn't.
 
numlock said:
no you just start a computer company (though drop computer from the name) and innovate by implementing ideas that you saw at xerox

then advertise by using the slogan "think different"
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Get the facts right. Xerox invited Apple to study what they had (a computer with GUI, mouse etc.) since Xerox believed they cannot turn it into a profitable product. Apple studied it and made several changes to it to IMPROVE it. In return, Xerox was paid by Apple (stocks).

Quote from wikipedia:

The director of the Xerox PARC research center, John Seely Brown, after seeing a clip of the scene in which Gates and Jobs argue, stated in an interview that it was not entirely accurate. Steve Jobs was invited by PARC to view their technology in exchange for the ability to buy pre-IPO Apple stock.[11][12]
 
ristlin said:
Yes, Notification Center IS based on Apple's work, they had the alert system in place since the original.

I didn't even mention Samsung.
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So you're saying that this:

standard-notification-window.jpg


Naturally progressed to this:

Notification%20Center2.JPG


but without any influence from this:
android-g1-50.jpg


Ok.
 
prezasti said:
Apple "Purchased" what Xerox wanted to sell, because they thought it was a complete waste of their R&D funding, where Apple (Steve Jobs) saw it could be the future of computer-user interaction. Apple didn't copy them.
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im not arguing they did anything illegal or wrong. im saying they did not invent what they saw and took with them and worked on it and implemented as their own product.

apple has done this many many times and sometimes paid for it, sometimes hired the developer and sometimes just copied.
 
This article was out on AI last night. By skimming through the first few pages, I don't think most people on MR have come across this line in the document: "Icons look like they've been copied from the iPhone, differentiate" . It's not verbatim, but the word 'copied' has been used. Go through it, it's right before the Korean part starts.
 
deputy_doofy said:
In one way, I hope Samsung wins. Since future lawsuits are generally won by legal precedents, this case would allow me to copy and/every single one of you by only analyzing your cool stuff and making the same exact thing. I can be a new company with a "crisis of design" and it will be 100000% ok to copy you -- your packaging, your designs, the way your stuff appears on screen, colors, etc. Then, when you complain about how I did no research, I can clearly show that studying your product and making mine behave pretty much the same way is legal and surely counts as research.

Looking forward to seeing your stuff. Ready? Go!
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Aye, this is a huge case and people don't seem to realize it.
 
nepalisherpa said:
Samsung, how about pouring more money on R&D and coming up with better ways than just simply copying?
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Samsung reply: I'm sorry. R&D is copying. First we research what Apple is doing and then we develop it in our own products. :rolleyes:
 
ristlin said:
Sure, he doesn't have a reason to be biased yet everyone who supports Apple somehow does?

Get a grip, everyone is emotionally involved when they argue. We aren't robots. He's just as riled up as anyone else.
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he's riled up for a different reason (if he even is) - same as I am. It's pretty frustrating to see either the same people (or not) post the same fallacies over and over as if posting them over and over will make them true. There are several "proof" points that some people use to illustrate this copying issue and yet they are and have been debunked or discussed several times using facts and documents vs opinions and hearsay, etc.

Don't confuse that emotionally involved with one that is emotionally involved with the company and/or product itself.

And don't introduce straw men into discussions. I never (nor did anyone else) say or imply "everyone who supports Apple somehow does? "
 
Hellhammer said:
Android is not Samsung's product, its Google's. Besides, just because Apple has not shown such document does not mean it doesn't exist. Was it just a coincidence that Apple's notification center is so similar to Android's which came first?
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God I'm so tired of seeing this misinformation by people.
Apple did not steal this from anyone and if anything notification center was made by the Jailbreak community long before it was out on Android and if anything else you could make a case that Google took that idea from the JB community.
Which incidentally Apple actually hired the designer and purchased the IP and company.
So it is a silly misinformed argument at best.
 
Bezetos said:
You gotta be kidding me...

Not only the Notification System has nothing to do with the alert system on the iPhone, but also the alert system is not Apple's invention...

Blind devotion can be harmful, you know.
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I said alert system that was in place in many phones INCLUDING the iPhone. Never said invention. Making stuff up is bad for your brain, you know.

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euphlyusUNO said:
While I wouldn't deny the "influence", it does show that at least Apple does it's homework and works to innovate and improve things.
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Aye, i never denied the influence. That's the whole idea of innovation and why I used the word. People need to chill out and read instead of jumping to conclusions.
 
ristlin said:
No.

I said Android's notifications were an innovation of Apple's alerts and Apple's Notification Center is an innovation of Android's notification system.

Keep up, bro.
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The jump from Android's notification center to the iOS notification center is much smaller than the leap between iOS alerts and Android's notification center. The iOS notification center is close enough to the Android one to be considered a copy, unless that info people gave me is true.
 
craznar said:
The fact they looked at a device doing it the obvious way, is not stealing anything - it is just showing something obvious.
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If it was all so obvious why was it done so badly by Samsung in the first place? surely if all these solutions to their issues were so obvious it wouldn't have taken Apple to implement them first before Samsung suddenly saw the light....

Lots of things can seem obvious in hindsight, but that doesn't mean that they were when they were first done...
 
It's normal in every industry to compare the product to the available information on the competition. How can otherwise one compete if they don't identify the shortcomings of the current product? This is no evidence of copying and I am very sure that apple does keep a close eye on the competitor's features. Not to mention all the ideas that they took from apps from Cydia.
 
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