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No, please do go on. You write excellent fiction.

Sadly it isn't fiction at all. If you look hard enough you will find newspaper articles about the complaints that Mc Donald's got for painting their restaurants partly red. It happened here in the Rochester NY area and elsewhere.

The red store nonsense actually started elsewhere. No doubt a local leftist with nothing to do saw something on the net about red stores and just had to get involved. Frankly most of these people don't have the wherewithal to get upset on their own.

The killer here is that these are transitory commercial buildings of limited lifespan. At least one of those red Mc Donald's has just been torment down to the ground to have a completely new store built on top of the old site. By the way no residential buildings within a mile so the old, "this will hurt my property values" whine is nonsense.

Another angle to consider here is just how long has Apple been in the store business? Not long really and they are already replacing old stores. That should highlight that nothing really stands for long in the commercial world. Companies move in and out of building regularly. Another five to ten years and this building could be hosting a micro brewery.
 
I think you're just regurgitating everything you've heard from right-leaning radio or cable news because you like to do that whenever the moment seems appropriate for it.
Err no, for one I seldom turn on a radio and refuse to pay for a cable connection. What I do see is what has happened locally and through my travels.
This really isn't a partisan situation, though. Everyone knows Apple and San Francisco will stay friends, but the end result will be a better-looking building that doesn't uproot a landmark.
Some landmarks should be uprooted. People dwell to much on the past which could be a seqway into a Mac Pro discussion.
It's going to end just fine for business too, I promise.
You do realize you are in no position to promise anything. In any event this has very little to do with business per say but rather the excessive regulation of such business. Apple could build a large building modeled on an outhouse and still make good money selling their product. The discussion is really about what is role of government in our lives. In this case government overstep its boundaries.

The interesting thing here is that almost nobody in the forums likes these new stores Apple is building. We should certainly voice our opinions to that issue. The problem I have is with government making these tedious demands upon commercial building construction. Especially for what are transitory buildings.
 
The current Mayor is a democrat.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Lee_(politician)

According to the links from this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Board_of_Supervisors

All but one of the members of the board have a declared party affiliation and the rest are declared as "Democrat".

Who is the crazy one?

So if you vote "Democrat" then this is the type of micro management that you get in return.

@RCGMac: What prevents a rendering plant beside your house is called "zoning". These people in the city government are trying to micromanage the design of a store.

Just because they're Democrats doesn't mean that's why they're being strict on business.

I live in a town where almost no businesses are allowed to open unless they are for old people. No game shops, skateboard stores, movie theaters, anything. Everyone on my city board is a Republican.

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I've been to SF and like the fountain. Just because Apple wants something doesn't make it so or correct. You guys are huge fanboys. Stop bitching. The billion dollar corporation will be just fine.
 
City planning is important, it allows having some coherence within cities.

Well that's the popularized fantasy often promoted by said governments and their spiritual brethren. However, if SF is evidence of 'city planning' then I think it's more than fair and completely logical to question the value of this practice.

I've seen people claim it's supposed to be for safety: where are the highways? SF roads are a constant mess, there's plenty of industrial and frivoulous trendy housing projects approved over the years (coincidentally some have been granted 'historic landmark' status). As far as basic planning, SF is a completely fail. It's almost a completely rectangular piece of land only about 12x60 miles , that's pretty hard to screw up. Yet it's 2013 and there is one convoluted freeway, diverted and elbowed down to a highway, then an immediately right turn into a bridge that's been under various forms of major construction for about 30 years, that's it.

Want to get to the Golden Gate? Then you're on city streets, each with traffic lights about every 50ft. Parking? Forget it, it's not a city priority in the slightest, because parking fines are a HUGE revenue generator for SF. They have zero interest in the public good, if they are making money. At least corporations have to sell a product that someone wants or they fail.

But yeah, the Ruth Asawa (wtf?) fountain behind the jean store in the business district filled with almost exclusively uniform gray rectangles, that's what government planners worry about. I'm sure they do some mythical public good, but I'm kinda tired of paying more and more for this type of religious spectacle to watch the government pray for the supposed inherent sins of mankind. It's a lousy show, and it's beyond overpriced for what we're getting.

If you're reading this and noticing a pattern with some SF 'logic', then you probably won't be amazed to learn that almost anything of a technological value is done almost 40 miles south, well away from the clunky, government-controlled, tourist mall at the Golden Gate bridge. It's interesting that the bridge was entirely financed, personally by Bank of America CEO, Amadeo Giannini - a guy from San Jose/Silicon Valley. His other company, the Transamerica Corporation, built the only other major notable landmark in SF, the Transamerica Pyramid Building.

City planning is an illusion. It's just another supposed reason used by an increasingly elitest, power hungry government to justify their importance. They even have a useless European cloned palace in SF for the royalty. You're even forced to drive past it slowly, because they end the freeway a couple hundred feet before it. Wanna see the bridge (the only reason you even left Disneyland and the beaches) you gotta drive by the monarchy, but slowly because they wouldn't want to be disturbed or have their view of the peasants obstructed.

I'm all for the corporations, these guys built SF and all of the actual landmarks there. Remove as much of the government as humanly possible and let them keep their Ruth Asawa fountains. Knock down their gaudy out of place city hall and put a super cool giant space ring of glass, a perfect infinite loop... never mind, Apple is building that in Silicon Valley.
 
So? Is it your land, your building.

This sort of typical libertarian thought ignores the fact that we share this Earth with other people. It's cute in its simplicity. But government exists to solve collective problems. Creating a city that actually functions is one of those problems.

Imagine, for example, if for iOS 7 Apple let every team come up with its own design aesthetic. Would the operating system be beautiful? Of course not -- it would be an ugly hodgepodge. The same goes for cities. You don't get to just build whatever you want because you own the land. Live out in the middle of nowhere if you want to do that, not downtown San Francisco.
 
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The current Mayor is a democrat.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Lee_(politician)

According to the links from this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Board_of_Supervisors

All but one of the members of the board have a declared party affiliation and the rest are declared as "Democrat".

Who is the crazy one?

So if you vote "Democrat" then this is the type of micro management that you get in return.

Wow, just when I thought I had seen it all, tying partisan politics into a thread about aesthetic zoning guidelines. Bravo!

I can assure you, politics has very little to do with these matters. Many cities have had zoning regulations for decades. This has nothing to do with partisan politics.
 
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The front side of the building apparently will have the current white Apple logo. Why not place one of the old-school rainbow-colored Apple logos into the wall on that side of the building? I would love seeing that there.

There has never been a rainbow Apple logo. It's multicolored, but fails grievously when compared to a San Francisco rainbow (see attached).

(If you don't understand, Yahoo! for "spectrum".)


But there's nothing new about any of this. You want to put a store in either of those downtown areas, you bring your A-game. This 3-sided metal box with a glass wall is not Apples (nor anyone else's) A-game.

And Apple could be sued for design theft by Toaster Oven®.


What you really mean is instead of voting for democrats, let's vote for some crazy religious wing-nut republicans. They can attach a legislative rider to the planning commission's report that would make abortion punishable by death.

What better way to show that you're pro-life than by using the death penalty.


That's what's so funny about this whole episode. No one is seeing the aesthetic abortion that is currently in that location. It looks like it was designed in 1974 by some coked-out mall developer that somehow landed a gig designing a building on Union Square. If that building and it's accompanying fountain were vaporized tomorrow, not a single tear would be shed.

This is of the "two wrongs don't make a right" school. If a mistake was made in "1974", how does it follow that SF city planning should make another mistake 40 years later?


Frankly the only real issue I see is what happens to a glass store when the next earth quack hits. That is an interesting engineering question.

Statistically, you're much safer in a glass building in San Francisco than in a brick building in St. Louis or Memphis.


Piano player in a whorehouse would be a promotion for most of today's crew.

Especially for Boehner.


Downtown San Francisco is nothing special and just because it is downtown doesn't mean that they have special rights over and above governments elsewhere.

Come downtown this Sunday morning, and then try to claim that San Francisco isn't special.


Most of the rest of us stopped using personal attacks and the old "Oh yeah? well, you're stupid!" argument way back in middle school.

Middle schoolers can post on MacRumours - obviously.


You don't get to just build whatever you want because you own the land. Live out in the middle of nowhere if you want to do that, not downtown San Francisco.

True dat.
 

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Seriously?

So SF city government isn't concerned with a little water fountain (that's illegal to bathe and drink from in the city) and is instead spending their time on tangible public works? :rolleyes:

They haven't kept much needed freeway space blocked with stupid bureaucrat shrines?

You might not find my hat stylish, but I'm afraid I'd win this debate.
It's crazy to believe in the illuminati, but it's also crazy to believe that government is anything other than a useless greedy fascist suck pig.
 
That's what's so funny about this whole episode. No one is seeing the aesthetic abortion that is currently in that location. It looks like it was designed in 1974 by some coked-out mall developer that somehow landed a gig designing a building on Union Square. If that building and it's accompanying fountain were vaporized tomorrow, not a single tear would be shed.

When I was last in the City I remember looking at the fountain but I have no memory of what the building next to it looks like.
 
So SF city government isn't concerned with a little water fountain (that's illegal to bathe and drink from in the city) and is instead spending their time on tangible public works? :rolleyes:

They haven't kept much needed freeway space blocked with stupid bureaucrat shrines?

You might not find my hat stylish, but I'm afraid I'd win this debate.
It's crazy to believe in the illuminati, but it's also crazy to believe that government is anything other than a useless greedy fascist suck pig.

You're assuming that the entire city is spending all their time and resources on "a little water fountain". This would mean the BART, water and gas, public parks, schools and police force, and all other social public systems are being ignored. A bit... dramatic.
If you'd stop being an arm chair politician and study polysci you'd realize how much wrong is in your "belief" system. We can all roll our eyes in cute little emoticons while shouting online, doesn't make you any more right. Moving on.
 
This sort of typical libertarian thought ignores the fact that we share this Earth with other people. It's cute in its simplicity. But government exists to solve collective problems. Creating a city that actually functions is one of those problems.

Actually it's you that are confused. Anarchists believe in no government. Libertarians believe in very specifically limited government. Libertarians tend to prefer strict Constitutional interpretations, often backed up by the argument that when government exceeds those, things tend to not work as well.

Libertarians leave people to deal with other people. The argument that people can't be trusted so we need government, is a little too close to the notion that we are all born with original sin/inherently evil and need the church to lead us.
I don't think priests have that power, and I don't think politicians or anyone else knows what's best for me. All power to the forward individuals. I'm a law abiding citizen, I see a lot of waste, and don't think I'm getting my tax dollar value out of this R & D turf war. Let's stop doing it, strip down the rules to universal stuff and let people thrive without hinderance.

Imagine, for example, if for iOS 7 Apple let every team come up with its own design aesthetic. Would the operating system be beautiful? Of course not -- it would be an ugly hodgepodge. The same goes for cities. You don't get to just build whatever you want because you own the land. Live out in the middle of nowhere if you want to do that, not downtown San Francisco.

Your analogy is mixed up. Apple owns the OS, so they do what they want with their OS. This is like the government telling Apple what to do with the OS, they don't own the property, why should they have a say what it looks like? If Apple builds an ugly hodgepodge, people might not buy it, but it's their choice. If the government builds something people don't like (ie. Ruth Asawa fountain) then you're forced to live with it, no choice. So you either trust the individual or you trust the government. If you say that individuals can't be trusted, then you want the government to tell you what to do, which is a monarchy. However the problem with that argument is if individuals can't be trusted, then that also applies to the monarchy, so the monarchy can't be trusted either and it makes less sense to consolidate power in just a few.
 
That fountain is so beautiful, the San Francisco city planners have a real eye for design. They should help Apple with the design of their building. I think a facade that looks like a melting candle will really bring in the customers
/s
 
They haven't kept much needed freeway space blocked with stupid bureaucrat shrines?

Since I live 50 km south of "The City", and frequently go up - I have a very, very different take on this.

I applaud that the "City and County of San Francisco" hasn't ripped a gash through the neighbourhoods and parks of western San Francisco to build a freeway connection between 280 and the Golden Gate Bridge. Do I care if it adds 20 minutes to a drive from Mountain View to Bodega Bay? No.

I applaud that after the Loma Prieta earthquake compromised the Embarcadero Freeway that the "City and County of San Francisco" canceled the entire project and demolished the structure in favor of a more people friendly boulevard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Loma_Prieta_earthquake#Effects_on_transportation

The "much needed freeway" mentality is typical for Los Angeles and southern California. San Francisco hasn't chopped the city up with freeways - so most of the time I take CalTrain or BART into the city, and leave my car in my garage.

I think that in the long term, our "left wing liberal democrat 'San Francisco values'" approach to life will win.
 
Since I live 50 km south of "The City", and frequently go up - I have a very, very different take on this.

I applaud that the "City and County of San Francisco" hasn't ripped a gash through the neighbourhoods and parks of western San Francisco to build a freeway connection between 280 and the Golden Gate Bridge. Do I care if it adds 20 minutes to a drive from Mountain View to Bodega Bay? No.

I applaud that after the Loma Prieta earthquake compromised the Embarcadero Freeway that the "City and County of San Francisco" canceled the entire project and demolished the structure in favor of a more people friendly boulevard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Loma_Prieta_earthquake#Effects_on_transportation

The "much needed freeway" mentality is typical for Los Angeles and southern California. San Francisco hasn't chopped the city up with freeways - so most of the time I take CalTrain or BART into the city, and leave my car in my garage.

I think that in the long term, our "left wing liberal democrat 'San Francisco values'" approach to life will win.

It has been said, and I believe accurately, that San Francisco is the only east coast city located on the west coast.
 
Just something I wanted to point out.
qxrt.jpg

There's too much glass on Post Street and too much metal on Stockton. The plaza that would accompany it needs a friendlier entrance. Planners also want the project to include a circular bronze fountain by Ruth Asawa that is the centerpiece of the plaza now on the block.
The city's planners object to the uniform wall of glass along the store's main frontage on Post Street, suggesting that Apple should do more to break up the wall by including colors or textures or vertical design elements.
 
If it is an official historical landmark you can't easily relocate it, if you do it will oftentimes lose it's historical designation. If you can move the landmark it is a pretty long process to do so.

Given that apparently the city told Apple they could find a place and pay to move the fountain it can't be that hard or this isn't really a landmark.
 
Can we really have public fountains anymore? Shouldn't it have a six foot fence around it so children won't drown? Who is going to think about the children???!?!??!?
 
Just something I wanted to point out.
Image

I think they're probably more concerned with the design's (lack of) interaction with pedestrians on the street level, and an extremely harsh edge with no thresholds. In terms of architecture and urban design, a facade like that on the ground level has a much greater effect than it would a few stories up.

Other than that, all I can say is that I seriously hope the glazing faces north. (although on a surface level, Apple's history of store design doesn't suggest that they're too concerned about avoiding glare, heat gain, or pursuing sustainable design anyway)
 
What Apple proposed is actually about the cheapest cost per square foot. Anytime to see an architect propose a rectangular box the reason is to maxim square footage to cost ratio. Any other shape costs more

My idea: Get rin of most of the first floor. A glass star way/elevator goes up to the second floor and down to a basement and almost all of the first floor is open to the air, landscaped and maybe water feature.

But what I just suggested cost a fortune to build.

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Just something I wanted to point out.
Image


What you really care about is the subtended angle from the viewer to the wall. In other words an 80 foot blank wall that you are 2 feet away from is different from an 80 foot blank wall that you are 200 feet away from.

The first one fills about 180 degrees of you vision with "blankness" and feels like it is crowding you off the sidewalk.
 
Thank you!

That's what's so funny about this whole episode. No one is seeing the aesthetic abortion that is currently in that location. It looks like it was designed in 1974 by some coked-out mall developer that somehow landed a gig designing a building on Union Square. If that building and it's accompanying fountain were vaporized tomorrow, not a single tear would be shed.

I walk by a half a block from this eyesore twice a day, going to and coming from work. The only thing on that block more hideous than the Levi store is that fountain. Apple could slap up a 4 story tin shed in that space and it would be an improvement. The planning committee should be overjoyed somebody wants to buy the lot and actually raze that eyesore.

Apple's design itself is clean and inoffensive. I suspect the real thrill will be the view from inside that store, which will be quite impressive.

This can't get approved soon enough. The stretch of Post Street east of Union Square has had a lot of retailers move out in the past couple of years, and the strip is in danger of losing its century-old status as a premier retail street in San Francisco. Already the flagship Gap Store at Kearny is gone (converted into a Schwab and totally devoid of foot traffic) as is the Diesel across the street (converted into an ING office), and several retailers between there and Union Square also recently went under. The Apple Store will do a lot to bring foot traffic back to the northeast side of Union Square and the Post Street strip.
 
Stop wasting time and build some products

The (contrived) controversy over this design, the "spaceship" in Cupertino and the"flat" iOS UX all seem like diversions. Add to that ridiculous product "development" like colors and sizes, and it all adds up to company that is not innovating. I know innovation cannot be sustained infinitely, but under Tim Cook's "leadership" we've seen nothing.

The new Mac Pro is a joke, not because of the design (aesthetically interesting) but because a "pro" machine that relies on a slew external drives and graphic cards all built upon a "standard" (Thunderbolt) that no one is adopting is questionable.

All of the effort to license music for a Pandora clone reminds of Micrsoft's Zune (a good product that was too little, too late). On top of all that, the existing products are released with significant hardware and software issues that are overlooked because of the volume of sales of core products like iPads and iPhones.

This rant is coming from someone who uses Apple products exclusively except for a smartphone.

Come on Apple, it's time to "think different."
 
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