San Francisco to Block Most Municipal Mac Purchases Following Apple's EPEAT Withdrawal

[WestonHarvey1]

No one is disallowing products that push the boundaries of design. Where are you getting this stuff ?

When compliance bodies gain significant market share, (or when compliance laws exist at all) they effectively shut possibilities out by limiting what companies can do.

PCI compliance, HIPAA, Sarbanes, whatever. If your company is affected by any of these, you have severe limitations on what products you can use in-house, what processes you can use, etc.

EPEAT may not be a big deal today, but if it managed to entrench itself in enough places, products like the retina MBP simply couldn't find a large enough market to justify its existence.

 

[isdmd10]

This is terrifying news for the future of the Mac.

Quite the opposite. Sounds like terrifying news for EPEAT.

 

[faroZ06]

hey moan and groaners, recycle your crap at the apple store and they'll do it responsibly. how about the tons of broken dells, hp's, asus' that I see in the dumpsters? So much for standards at that point hu???

Edit: The point is, any electronic device can be responsibly recycled... it's up to the owner to do so. No "guidelines" can do this.

This^

This story is BS. I was hoping that the "green" trend ended in 2009. I guess people still follow anything labeled "green". I saw an ad that said "Check out these green products!!" and showed me DVDs and random stuff.

 

[KnightWRX]

When compliance bodies gain significant market share, (or when compliance laws exist at all) they effectively shut possibilities out by limiting what companies can do.

PCI compliance, HIPAA, Sarbanes, whatever. If your company is affected by any of these, you have severe limitations on what products you can use in-house, what processes you can use, etc.

EPEAT may not be a big deal today, but if it managed to entrench itself in enough places, products like the retina MBP simply couldn't find a large enough market to justify its existence.

These don't affect the consumer market as far as I can see and Apple products are targetted at the consumer market. Thus you're just being overly paranoid.

 

[faroZ06]

Quite the opposite. Sounds like terrifying news for EPEAT.

It will hurt both.

 

[gnasher729]

San Francisco e-waste is recycled in the US. It doesn't go to China. Same with most other municipalities in the Bay Area.

In which case obviously the EPEAT rules don't matter. EPEAT rules (can be taken apart by hand, or with commonly available tools) don't matter if you send the stuff to some recycler who knows what they are doing.

No, unfortunately they aren't guaranteed that Apple will recycle everything properly because of the way the new retina MBPs are put together. For one thing, the battery is literally glued onto the motherboard and cannot be safely removed.

And you should know this is total nonsense. Apple will replace the batter for $199 - how do you think that is done if it cannot be safely removed? Here is what actually happened:

1. iFixIt finds it harder to fix the new Retina MBP - therefore they declare it "unrepairable".
2. iFixIt cannot sell you battery replacement - therefore they declare that the battery cannot be safely removed.
3. iFixIt is too stupid to realise that the glass on the Retina MBP is part of the LCD display and not covering, and as a result break the display while trying to remove the glass - therefore they declare that the LCD screen cannot be fixed.
4. Someone asked their "friends in the electronic recycling industry" who told them they didn't know how to recycle the Retina MBP LCD screen - therefore, it cannot be recycled. (Usually, when I tell my boss I don't know how to do something the very next thing I tell him is that I will find out how to do it. And you bet that is what Apple's recyclers are doing).

hey moan and groaners, recycle your crap at the apple store and they'll do it responsibly. how about the tons of broken dells, hp's, asus' that I see in the dumpsters? So much for standards at that point hu???

In the UK, Apple will take your broken Dell, HP or Asus computer back when you buy a Mac.

 

[KnightWRX]

Seriously? Her first call was to the Wall Street Journal. The city government wanted this out there to serve as a not so subtle backhand to Apple. If she wasn't trying to criticize she wouldn't have done press on it. She would have issued her directive to department heads to inform them of the ban on new Apple purchases.

Instead...she went a different route. It's definitely her prerogative to do so (and probably a sign that she is doing her job right), but lets not act like the use of the media here was not intentional.

Maybe it was intentional in getting Apple to go back to EPEAT for Macs so the city can keep buying them ? As she stated even ... ?

Why must you paint her as evil ?

 

[Gubbz]

I don't see the issue. GreenPeace obviously don't seem to recognise this EPEAT as viable as GreenPeace often are giving Apple grief. If the GreenPeace terrorists are quiet, then paying money for a token certification isn't any loss... EPEAT comes across as powerful as a no-body doing a 2-day course on Word and claiming that they are then qualified IT... A bit pointless and not worth the paper the certificate is printed on.

 

[faroZ06]

so let me get this straight... San Francisco wont let public employees buy Apples computers because Apple doesnt agree with epeat's design requirements? This makes zero sense. Its like saying "We arent gonna eat bacon because its too **** delicious!" its nonsense! "We arent gonna use Apple's products because they are designed too well!"

Also bacon is delicious, so you should never turn it down.

No, it's more like saying "I don't really like bacon, so nobody in my company should be allowed to eat it at work."

I actually don't like bacon that much, but it's still good.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Regarding the "3x" claim, there's still the fact that you cannot find an all-in-one PC that matches even the core specs of CPU, RAM, graphics, etc for $400.

More broadly, many features don't show up in spec sheets but are part of the product. The footprint and weight. The aesthetics. How easy it is to tilt the monitor.

What value do you assign to the audio jack that's compatible with iPhone earbud controls? $50? If you use it all the time it's certainly worth that much.

Again core specs are generally over kill for what it will be used for so it goes back to extra crap category.
Aesthetics are a meh in the office world and you will be hard press to find a monitor system that does not tilt and often times it is easier to find a system that the monitor can be adjusted up and down virtual along with tilt. Something Apple iMacs do not do as all they can do is tilt.

All you need is an audio out point. Volume is easy to control from the computer so not a good case.

 

[foodog]

Didn't you read that only 1-2% of SF computers are Apple, your comment makes no sense

Really so end users being given a completely different computing experience will cause no issues for IT? Au Contraire.

 

[faroZ06]

In which case obviously the EPEAT rules don't matter. EPEAT rules (can be taken apart by hand, or with commonly available tools) don't matter if you send the stuff to some recycler who knows what they are doing.

Even worse, taxpayers pay for EPEAT.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

These don't affect the consumer market as far as I can see and Apple products are targetted at the consumer market. Thus you're just being overly paranoid.

Overly paranoid, sure. But is it impossible to imagine that some senator will someday look at EPEAT and say "This would be great if it were a law"?

 

[macnchiefs]

Here is the tone of this forum

As long as Apple meets EPEAT requirements - EPEAT is wonderful!
As long as Apple does not meet EPEAT requirements - EPEAT is worthless!

... same ol' drivel being spewed out here.

It's too bad they pulled out of EPEAT, hopefully they are still going to be doing their own recycling program since so they have been so pro environment as of late. But as always it would be nice IF APPLE WOULD COMMENT ON THE MATTER. Which they never do. And in this case unless they have a suitable replacement in place it's probably best to keep your mouth shut.

Both sides lose from a PR perspective as far as I'm concerned.

 

[autrefois]

I sure hope the San Francisco government blocks all tablet and smartphone purchases too, since they wouldn't be able to pass EPEAT rules.

Oh, wait. EPEAT specifically excludes tablets and smart phones from their list of non-approved devices since they have no chance of passing? Not being able to pass is apparently a reason to give it a pass? Cool.

So when a laptop can't be taken apart it's a problem, but when a tablet can't be taken apart is all ok because those are different words.

Just making sure I'm clear. So, San Francisco government, all your Blackberries, iPhones, and Android phones are safe just because "laptop" and "cell phone" sound different when you say them. Close call, San Francisco government!

You seem to be confused. Apple made a decision to change a computer (Macbook Pro) that was certified by EPEAT, environmentally friendly and fairly easy to service, to one that now is not meeting EPEAT standards, is less environmentally responsible and much less easy to repair.

Plus, Apple has announced they're withdrawing all of their computers from the EPEAT certification program all together, which seems to be a pretty obvious indication of what direction their other computers are going to go. So San Francisco is no longer buying their computers.

Did the Blackberries, iPhones, Androids, and tablets you mentioned used to meet the EPEAT standards, and now their respective companies are going out of their way to make them worse for the environment? No. There are no EPEAT smartphone or tablet devices, so San Francisco has no choice in the matter.

Apple used to make EPEAT-compliant computers. They've announced that they're no longer going to do so. San Francisco wants to stop buying their computers from Apple. Pretty straight-forward to me...

 

[RedCroissant]

Maybe this will get me down-voted along with others but what is the crime or problem with Apple removing their products from the EPEAT list when they are aware that those very products do not meet the requirements of the program? That seems very reasonable and responsible to me.

What is unreasonable is San Francisco officials' stance on this that compels them to make such an announcement in order to force compliance to a standard that Apple has already acknowledged that its products do not meet.

My guess is that there will be a newer and updated recyclability standard that will see Apple taking control of recycling its own products. Who better to take apart and recycle products that the company itself designed and assembled? Would anyone see Dell, HP, Vizio, or any of the other companies doing this?

As another poster stated and something that I have noticed as well, I see plenty of Windows PC components in dumpsters all the time.

This policy also does not say that Apple suddenly cares less for the protection of the environment than other companies whose products are still certified, it just means that they're moving in a different direction.

 

[faroZ06]

Again core specs are generally over kill for what it will be used for so it goes back to extra crap category.
Aesthetics are a meh in the office world and you will be hard press to find a monitor system that does not tilt and often times it is easier to find a system that the monitor can be adjusted up and down virtual along with tilt. Something Apple iMacs do not do as all they can do is tilt.

All you need is an audio out point. Volume is easy to control from the computer so not a good case.

The iMac G4 sounds like a good office computer. I'd actually use one if all I'm doing is basic stuff.

----------

Here is the tone of this forum

As long as Apple meets EPEAT requirements - EPEAT is wonderful!
As long as Apple does not meet EPEAT requirements - EPEAT is worthless!

... same ol' drivel being spewed out here.

It's too bad they pulled out of EPEAT, hopefully they are still going to be doing their own recycling program since so they have been so pro environment as of late. But as always it would be nice IF APPLE WOULD COMMENT ON THE MATTER. Which they never do. And in this case unless they have a suitable replacement in place it's probably best to keep your mouth shut.

Both sides lose from a PR perspective as far as I'm concerned.

Apple normally comments on these things. They commented on their shunning of Flash and the iPhone 4's alleged antenna problem, the two most published Apple-related stories.

And I've never heard anyone praise EPEAT. I don't even like the idea of these useless things that we have to pay for.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Welcome to the law of unintended consequences and the fascist nanny state.
People tried to warn you and now it's too late.
Look what all that bragging about how green and morally superior Apple was
with their uber-enlightened environmental consciousness got them.
Be careful what you ask for. It's only going to get worse.
The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions.

Has Al Gore hoisted himself on his own petard yet?

 

[unlimitedx]

Local governments can barely balance their budgets and they are buying apple products?

 

[gccumber]

No, it's more like saying "I don't really like bacon, so nobody in my company should be allowed to eat it at work."

I actually don't like bacon that much, but it's still good.

all things Apple aside... Ya dont like bacon that much?

 

[foodog]

IT departments will rejoice. Pretty much all intranets are Windows based and IT departments usually don't like Macs because they complicate things for them, mainly support.
This is most certainly the case here since only a small portion of the PC's used are Macs

Maybe at the announcement but not after figuring out it causes more issues than it solved.

 

[isdmd10]

Local governments can barely balance their budgets and they are buying apple products?

As you can see from this news the decision-making process within government is severely flawed.

 

[apolloa]

But but but but but look at it's revolutionary display and it's ultra thin design!!!

 

[ardy8888]

Didn't you read that only 1-2% of SF computers are Apple, your comment makes no sense

Yes, 1-2% of SF computers are Apple. According to the article, that's 500-700 computers. A migration of that size to a new platform will certainly be painful. Granted, not as painful as all of SF's computers, but still painful to the teams that need to deal with it.

You saying that someone else's comment makes no sense is what actually makes no sense.

 

[lilo777]

And I've never heard anyone praise EPEAT. I don't even like the idea of these useless things that we have to pay for.

Well, Apple did praise EPEAT (until recently). Here is a quote from Apple press release (2011):

As the industry’s greenest notebook lineup, every Mac notebook achieves EPEAT Gold status and meets Energy Star 5.0 requirements, setting the standard for environmentally friendly notebook design.