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geoff5093

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2014
2,251
2,564
Dover, NH
Android FUD? Pretty sure you can't backup all your data and have an identical phone after restore with Android (no third party crap).

Try again maybe?
His point was on Android you can receive an OTA update, install it, and get right back to the OS without losing your data. I'm not sure why he would need to back up and restore...

If something did go wrong, when you sign back into your Google account most of the settings, apps, e-mail, etc. are redownloaded automatically. Plus there are third party apps which can backup anything Google doesn't like the settings or progress of third party apps, SMS, home screen layout, etc.
 

Toltepeceno

Suspended
Jul 17, 2012
1,807
554
SMT, Edo MX, MX
iTunes is the way to go.

I did this and my backup was corrupt for some reason. Had to start all over again.

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His point was on Android you can receive an OTA update, install it, and get right back to the OS without losing your data. I'm not sure why he would need to back up and restore...

If something did go wrong, when you sign back into your Google account most of the settings, apps, e-mail, etc. are redownloaded automatically. Plus there are third party apps which can backup anything Google doesn't like the settings or progress of third party apps, SMS, home screen layout, etc.

This, google syncs prettymuch everything and I never lost anything. My first os upgrade on an iphone and for some reason had a corrupt backup, it would not install.

So the blather is just that, blather. It can go wrong with apple also.
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
His point was on Android you can receive an OTA update, install it, and get right back to the OS without losing your data. I'm not sure why he would need to back up and restore...

If something did go wrong, when you sign back into your Google account most of the settings, apps, e-mail, etc. are redownloaded automatically. Plus there are third party apps which can backup anything Google doesn't like the settings or progress of third party apps, SMS, home screen layout, etc.

None of the android devices I have are capable of being upgraded to any more recent version of the android operating system without hacking them. And I'd love to be able to back them up to my computer, but that's not an option either. I'd also like to be able to archive the apps to the computer so they could be reinstalled without re downloading, but that's not an option either. Can't do anything but fully wipe them out and reinstall everything. Just hoping they never have a problem.

Not to mention that they feel cumbersome to operate.
 

iososx

macrumors 6502a
Aug 23, 2014
859
6
USA
Again with the Android FUD. I've been using Android phones and tablets since Gingerbread and not once has that happened. I've never lost anything and OTA updates work just fine with 100% success rate.
Both my Android and iPhone are fine.
 

Winona Northdakota

macrumors 6502a
Dec 27, 2010
580
1
I did this and my backup was corrupt for some reason. Had to start all over again.

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This, google syncs prettymuch everything and I never lost anything. My first os upgrade on an iphone and for some reason had a corrupt backup, it would not install.

So the blather is just that, blather. It can go wrong with apple also.


I've had problems with Google also. Backups can be corrupted, regardless of platform. That is why it is good to back up regularly and not put all one's eggs in one basket.
 

geoff5093

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2014
2,251
2,564
Dover, NH
None of the android devices I have are capable of being upgraded to any more recent version of the android operating system without hacking them. And I'd love to be able to back them up to my computer, but that's not an option either. I'd also like to be able to archive the apps to the computer so they could be reinstalled without re downloading, but that's not an option either. Can't do anything but fully wipe them out and reinstall everything. Just hoping they never have a problem.

Not to mention that they feel cumbersome to operate.
That's where the huge difference is between Android and iOS. While you may not get the latest operating system, the majority of the core services as well as all the included applications are updated outside of the OS, so the upgrade from say 4.3 to 4.4 is extremely minimal, when all the new features of Maps, Mail, the camera, new API's, etc. are pushed out to everyone with devices that aren't 5 years old.

Why would you want to back up to your computer? The beauty of Android is that everything is backed up to the cloud, so there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup. Just reset your device, and the majority of your data will redownload. If you're concerned with data use with redownloading apps, just do it over WiFi. If you have to be connected to a computer on iOS for a backup, then certainly finding WiFi isn't going to be a big issue.

If you really want a full backup, root with a custom recovery and you can create images of your phone and store them on your computer.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
The beauty of Android is that everything is backed up to the cloud, so there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup. Just reset your device, and the majority of your data will redownload. If you're concerned with data use with redownloading apps, just do it over WiFi. If you have to be connected to a computer on iOS for a backup, then certainly finding WiFi isn't going to be a big issue.

Really, it's the beauty of modern phones, since iOS and Android can do this. I don't know about Windows Phone, but I suspect it lets you do this as well.
 

Woochifer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2007
772
55
Think about it this way. Doing the iOS 8 update, the installation process needs space for 1) the ~1.9 GB iOS 8 download file; 2) space for all the individual iOS 8 files after unpacking and validating the download file; and 3) a full backup of the previous iOS installation, so that the phone remains usable in case something goes awry during the installation.

If Apple didn't require 4.6-5.3 GB of storage space to make the full OTA iOS 8 update, which of those safeguards would people be willing to dispense with? The installation with iTunes does not require nearly as much storage space because the installation file gets stored, validated, and unpacked on the computer rather than on the device.

As for iOS 8 itself, Ars Technica compared identically prepped iOS devices and found that iOS 8 requires between 740 MB to 1.03 GB of extra storage space compared to iOS 7.1.2. That's the real storage requirement you should look at. Any other storage required during installation gets freed up after completion.

You can clear out even more storage space by doing a factory restore, and then restoring from backup. That will fully clear out the caches and any garbage data that might have accumulated from botched downloads and other cruft.
 

APlotdevice

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2011
3,145
3,861
The base model 5c is/was 8GB, not 16GB.

I'm not saying 16GB is enough, but people do have a choice and most people choose the cheapest option for whatever reason.

Actually at launch the base model 5c was 16GB. The 8GB version came out later.
 

Woochifer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2007
772
55
Why would you want to back up to your computer? The beauty of Android is that everything is backed up to the cloud, so there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup. Just reset your device, and the majority of your data will redownload. If you're concerned with data use with redownloading apps, just do it over WiFi. If you have to be connected to a computer on iOS for a backup, then certainly finding WiFi isn't going to be a big issue.

If you really want a full backup, root with a custom recovery and you can create images of your phone and store them on your computer.

Why? Because you have a full backup available locally. It's faster and more reliable to restore, and you don't push up against any data caps (which most household broadband accounts have) if you have to reload the full contents of your phone. With iOS the option for both cloud-based and local backup is still there if you want redundant backups.

"Root with custom recovery ... create images" "there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup" Actually, it sounds like you're really saying there's no built in option to make a local backup. You really expect an average consumer to root their phone just so they can have a full backup available without needing to rely on cloud storage, and internet connections that might be way slower than a local connection and/or have data caps?
 
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flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
That's where the huge difference is between Android and iOS. While you may not get the latest operating system, the majority of the core services as well as all the included applications are updated outside of the OS, so the upgrade from say 4.3 to 4.4 is extremely minimal, when all the new features of Maps, Mail, the camera, new API's, etc. are pushed out to everyone with devices that aren't 5 years old.

Why would you want to back up to your computer? The beauty of Android is that everything is backed up to the cloud, so there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup. Just reset your device, and the majority of your data will redownload. If you're concerned with data use with redownloading apps, just do it over WiFi. If you have to be connected to a computer on iOS for a backup, then certainly finding WiFi isn't going to be a big issue.

If you really want a full backup, root with a custom recovery and you can create images of your phone and store them on your computer.

Where I'm at data limits are low and Internet is expensive. Using the "cloud" would require $200 per month in data fees. And yes that's for home internet, not cellular. Cell plans here cap at 300 MB per month.

The cloud is useless for all but the wealthy and rich here. Local storage still rules. And likely will for the next decade or more. We have slow and expensive internet.

I'm not spending hundreds of dollars a month because a device requires a cloud to hold its information.

Rooting requires hacking the device. Something that my devices are apparently impervious to. I've tried and gotten nowhere. They remain locked.

And there has never been an update to any of their core services or built in apps. Only things that can be updated are the apps downloaded from Google play.

I have devices running variants from 2.x to 4.3. Nothing has ever been able to be updated. Anything that is problematic remains problematic indefinitely.

Almost anything you want to do requires some kind of hack to enable it. Android is for those who like to break into the os and manually tinker with stuff.

The problem is that it doesn't provide easy ways to store and archive your data locally.

I don't and won't use a cloud service. Too expensive. And even if it weren't, my information should not be hostage to the reliability of someone else's service.

I have at least one of my gmail accounts become unavailable daily. Why would I store anything important there and hope that their server wasn't down when I need it.

Internet bandwidth is a premium here. Not going to shuffle large files through some web service when I have a huge hard drive on my computer.

A simple plug it in and instant local backup works fine. That's the beauty of a modern device. It works without relying on someone else. I'll keep my iOS devices as primary.

Androids tossed to kids for playing Dora the explorer games now.
 

geoff5093

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2014
2,251
2,564
Dover, NH
Where I'm at data limits are low and Internet is expensive. Using the "cloud" would require $200 per month in data fees. And yes that's for home internet, not cellular. Cell plans here cap at 300 MB per month.

The cloud is useless for all but the wealthy and rich here. Local storage still rules. And likely will for the next decade or more. We have slow and expensive internet.

I'm not spending hundreds of dollars a month because a device requires a cloud to hold its information.

Rooting requires hacking the device. Something that my devices are apparently impervious to. I've tried and gotten nowhere. They remain locked.

And there has never been an update to any of their core services or built in apps. Only things that can be updated are the apps downloaded from Google play.

I have devices running variants from 2.x to 4.3. Nothing has ever been able to be updated. Anything that is problematic remains problematic indefinitely.

Almost anything you want to do requires some kind of hack to enable it. Android is for those who like to break into the os and manually tinker with stuff.

The problem is that it doesn't provide easy ways to store and archive your data locally.

I don't and won't use a cloud service. Too expensive. And even if it weren't, my information should not be hostage to the reliability of someone else's service.

I have at least one of my gmail accounts become unavailable daily. Why would I store anything important there and hope that their server wasn't down when I need it.

Internet bandwidth is a premium here. Not going to shuffle large files through some web service when I have a huge hard drive on my computer.

A simple plug it in and instant local backup works fine. That's the beauty of a modern device. It works without relying on someone else. I'll keep my iOS devices as primary.

Androids tossed to kids for playing Dora the explorer games now.
Sounds like a smartphone isn't for you. Most of your complaints are about data prices, even with an iPhone, without WiFi you will be severely limited with 300MB per month. The beauty to me of Android is that I don't ever have to plug it into a computer, it can operate 100% independently.

And yes, Google services are updated outside of the OS. Google Play Services is the core API for Android, and that is updated from Google whenever they feel like it.
 

MisakixMikasa

macrumors 6502a
Aug 21, 2013
776
2
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Why? Because you have a full backup available locally. It's faster and more reliable to restore, and you don't push up against any data caps (which most household broadband accounts have) if you have to reload the full contents of your phone. With iOS the option for both cloud-based and local backup is still there if you want redundant backups.

"Root with custom recovery ... create images" "there's no need to plug into a computer for a manual backup" Actually, it sounds like you're really saying there's no built in option to make a local backup. You really expect an average consumer to root their phone just so they can have a full backup available without needing to rely on cloud storage, and internet connections that might be way slower than a local connection and/or have data caps?

Seriously, how much data could you consume when restoring your phone? It not goons consuming you 200GB if stuff. I can hardly see how data cap comes to play.

you do not need cloud storage to restore your Android phone, all you need is your gmail. Everything will sync back. Why is it so hard to understand?
 

rtomyj

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2012
812
753
His point was on Android you can receive an OTA update, install it, and get right back to the OS without losing your data. I'm not sure why he would need to back up and restore...

If something did go wrong, when you sign back into your Google account most of the settings, apps, e-mail, etc. are redownloaded automatically. Plus there are third party apps which can backup anything Google doesn't like the settings or progress of third party apps, SMS, home screen layout, etc.

The guy was complaining about not being able to install a new update because of free space. So if he backs it up and restores, he can get get ALL data back from his backup. Simple, no?
 

Rodster

macrumors 68040
May 15, 2007
3,177
6
Android FUD? Pretty sure you can't backup all your data and have an identical phone after restore with Android (no third party crap).

Try again maybe?

Sure you can. It's called a Google account and Google Drive. You look it up. In fact your Google account will automatically download every app and updates, that was on your previous device. I've tried it and done it with Nexus 7 and phone devices. :p
 

RockSpider

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2014
903
396
Ignorance isn't bliss, huh?
Backup up phone.
Update
Won't lose a thing
Simple

This isn't android. Learn to use your damn phone instead of "venting"

I thought "It just works", isn't that what sets iPhone apart from Android and Windows. Isn't venting allowed in Apple Land. I have quite a few Apple products and some of them do have problems and I vent, probably because I'm not a sheep.
 

APlotdevice

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2011
3,145
3,861
Cool. So the base model 5c is/was 8GB? Just like I said? ;)

It is the base model now (well actually its the ONLY model of 5c still for sale), but it wasn't always. And IIRC it was only sold in certain markets until this month.
 

Woochifer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2007
772
55
Seriously, how much data could you consume when restoring your phone? It not goons consuming you 200GB if stuff. I can hardly see how data cap comes to play.

you do not need cloud storage to restore your Android phone, all you need is your gmail. Everything will sync back. Why is it so hard to understand?

Yeah, it syncs back using data transmitted over the internet, because there is no local backup. Gmail doesn't magically bypass anyone's broadband data caps. The data cap is an issue because any OTA restoration uses data.

My monthly home broadband data cap is 150 GB, and our average monthly usage is over 100 GB because we use a lot of video streaming. Restoring a 64 GB phone with cloud-based syncing can easily go over that data cap. And if something gets interrupted or requires restarting the process, all that prior data usage still counts.

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The guy was complaining about not being able to install a new update because of free space. So if he backs it up and restores, he can get get ALL data back from his backup. Simple, no?

Exactly. The OP has the OPTION of either clearing out the storage space to do the iOS 8 update, or using iTunes and a local backup. After completing the update, extra space used during the installation is returned.
 

geoff5093

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2014
2,251
2,564
Dover, NH
The guy was complaining about not being able to install a new update because of free space. So if he backs it up and restores, he can get get ALL data back from his backup. Simple, no?
I guess, except for the fact that Android doesn't require you to have 5-7GB of free space to update, just the few hundred megs that the update is.. So with Android you wouldn't have to delete or restore your phone to update.
Yeah, it syncs back using data transmitted over the internet, because there is no local backup. Gmail doesn't magically bypass anyone's broadband data caps. The data cap is an issue because any OTA restoration uses data.

My monthly home broadband data cap is 150 GB, and our average monthly usage is over 100 GB because we use a lot of video streaming. Restoring a 64 GB phone with cloud-based syncing can easily go over that data cap. And if something gets interrupted or requires restarting the process, all that prior data usage still counts.

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Exactly.
64GB? You really aren't familiar with Android... Buy a micro SD card, put it in your phone, and keep your media on that. If you wipe your device for some reason, that will remain. I assume since you are so bandwidth restricted there's no way you'd get a phone without removable storage. You can also transfer files over your home network from your PC without plugging in your phone as well. So really the only data you'd use is at most a couple gigs, most likely a lot less, depending on how many large apps you had installed.
 

rtomyj

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2012
812
753
Learn your damn thing before you bashing other platform? Why it is so easy for Apple fan starting to bashing other platform? Seriously.

Sure you can. It's called a Google account and Google Drive. You look it up. In fact your Google account will automatically download every app and updates, that was on your previous device. I've tried it and done it with Nexus 7 and phone devices. :p

Oooh this is perfect. So Android has a service (yes singular) that backs up; messages, settings, app preferences, photos, reminders, call history, music installed etc?

For one, as a Android dev, there is a service (separate) that Google provides for app preference. As for Google services (another service) it's horrendous. Pic coming soon.

Edit:
This happens AAAAALLL the time on THREE of my accounts.
Hate how people who only use android or love android or worship Google always say that people who bad mouth it "don't know" the platform. As you can see, I have an Android. ;-)



https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1lv7zwrvfzwwem/Photo%20Sep%2021%2C%206%2033%2055%20PM.png?dl=0
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I guess, except for the fact that Android doesn't require you to have 5-7GB of free space to update, just the few hundred megs that the update is.. So with Android you wouldn't have to delete or restore your phone to update.

64GB? You really aren't familiar with Android... Buy a micro SD card, put it in your phone, and keep your media on that. If you wipe your device for some reason, that will remain. I assume since you are so bandwidth restricted there's no way you'd get a phone without removable storage. You can also transfer files over your home network from your PC without plugging in your phone as well. So really the only data you'd use is at most a couple gigs, most likely a lot less, depending on how many large apps you had installed.

Yup. Android works differently. Good job.
 

Woochifer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2007
772
55
64GB? You really aren't familiar with Android... Buy a micro SD card, put it in your phone, and keep your media on that. If you wipe your device for some reason, that will remain. I assume since you are so bandwidth restricted there's no way you'd get a phone without removable storage. You can also transfer files over your home network from your PC without plugging in your phone as well. So really the only data you'd use is at most a couple gigs, most likely a lot less, depending on how many large apps you had installed.

Yes, 64 GB, as in the storage size of a maxed out phone (which just increased to 128 GB with the 6/6 Plus).

Restricting options to phones with built-in SD card readers is your solution? Yeah, that's a local backup for your data, but it's still not a full backup of the device itself. Every option mentioned for having a full local backup of an Android phone involves some sort of rooting or other third-party solution. Not exactly something an average consumer will want to do.
 
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