Sep 30th: What happens to the iPhone 4?

[samcraig]

i read it and thought it was quite humorous. you keep throwing negative connotations at people that disagree with you, like saying i have a lack of knowledge, which i don't by the way. your condescention is not helping your losing argument.

LOL - what losing argument. Because you perceive you are winning? Now that's comedy.

And you obviously do have a lack of knowledge on the subject if you think PR is just about sales.

But again - we can just agree to disagree. You're not going to convince me Apple's PR has been good the past few months. And I'm not going to convince you it wasn't. So there's really nothing left to discuss. It's futile.

 

[shandyman]

LOL - what losing argument. Because you perceive you are winning? Now that's comedy.

And you obviously do have a lack of knowledge on the subject if you think PR is just about sales.

But again - we can just agree to disagree. You're not going to convince me Apple's PR has been good the past few months. And I'm not going to convince you it wasn't. So there's really nothing left to discuss. It's futile.

let's revisit this in 6 months and see whether your claim that its long term thats going to be the issue then. that will prove who's right.

 

[samcraig]

let's revisit this in 6 months and see whether your claim that its long term thats going to be the issue then. that will prove who's right.

Why 6 months? Is the new iPhone launching then? Are you arbitrarily picking a date which YOU think constitutes "long term."

Such a desire to be proven right.... nonsense. Have a great day Andy...

 

[shandyman]

Why 6 months? Is the new iPhone launching then? Are you arbitrarily picking a date which YOU think constitutes "long term."

Such a desire to be proven right.... nonsense. Have a great day Andy...

i thought 6 months was a fair date that was slightly long term. ok then, iPhone 5 launch, since you want to be a bit more specific. that would be a better time. or are you just worried you'd be proved wrong? if i'm wrong, i'll hold my hands up to admit it, i'm not one to hide from it.

 

[samcraig]

i thought 6 months was a fair date that was slightly long term. ok then, iPhone 5 launch, since you want to be a bit more specific. that would be a better time. or are you just worried you'd be proved wrong? if i'm wrong, i'll hold my hands up to admit it, i'm not one to hide from it.

Andy - you can put whatever time frame you want on it. I don't worry about being "right" in this scenario. My opinion is my opinion and therefor, to me - is correct. It's a shared opinion amongst my peers. That's more than enough "validation" I need regardless of what happens in 1 month, 5 months, or 10 years.

And you're free to believe your opinion as well.

That's what makes life interesting... a diversity of opinion. It certainly makes message boards like this thrive, doesn't it?

 

[shandyman]

Andy - you can put whatever time frame you want on it. I don't worry about being "right" in this scenario. My opinion is my opinion and therefor, to me - is correct. It's a shared opinion amongst my peers. That's more than enough "validation" I need regardless of what happens in 1 month, 5 months, or 10 years.

And you're free to believe your opinion as well.

That's what makes life interesting... a diversity of opinion. It certainly makes message boards like this thrive, doesn't it?

you were presenting your opinion as fact. thats where the issue laid. obviously you are worried you are wrong.

 

[Bonds79]

I think most people agree that:

- Apple is not going to change anything about the iPhone 4 until next June when the next iPhone comes out.

- Apple had to place an end date to the free case program or else people would feel that it could run forever. I think they feel that by Sep 30th people have had enough time to decide wether they want to buy the iPhone 4 and deal with the "death grip" or get a different phone (regardless of case).


So, if you think the "batches" made in October will be any better than a iPhone 4 delivered on June 24th, you are a fool.

And u like a lots of folks on this forum are in denial. You probably think like a lot of people here, that you somehow got the perfect iphone 4 totally uneffected by antenna issues, AGAIN you are in DENIAL!

Face the iphone 4 has issues and it effect every single phone.

Eithier the Bumper will come in the box or there will be a silent manufacturing change.

 

[samcraig]

you were presenting your opinion as fact. thats where the issue laid. obviously you are worried you are wrong.

false. I'm not worried. My professional opinion is that Apple's PR over the past few months in regards to the iPhone 4 was a failure in execution and messaging.

 

[xenuprime]

For an example of how PR and sales can exist separatley, just look at the Element Case thread(s) and their Vapor bumper (still don't think it should be called a case).

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

My opinion is my opinion and therefor, to me - is correct. It's a shared opinion amongst my peers. That's more than enough "validation" I need regardless of what happens in 1 month, 5 months, or 10 years.

If we do a poll here asking if we agree with Apple's handling of PR matters and the obligatory 70% (which is lower than in the real world as the distractors are overrepresented in this forum) responds yes, then the shared "professional" opinion of yourself and your PR peers means little because it's not consistent with what the real public thinks.

 

[shandyman]

And u like a lots of folks on this forum are in denial. You probably think like a lot of people here, that you somehow got the perfect iphone 4 totally uneffected by antenna issues, AGAIN you are in DENIAL!

Face the iphone 4 has issues and it effect every single phone.

Eithier the Bumper will come in the box or there will be a silent manufacturing change.

no, not every iPhone is affected. mine isn't, as i have mentioned in another thread, my neighbour's iphone had the issue, we tested mine and his in same place doing the death grip, his dropped to no service, mine kept 3 bars. ergo, mine is perfectly fine, his wasn't.

 

[shandyman]

If we do a poll here asking if we agree with Apple's handling of PR matters and the obligatory 70% (which is lower than in the real world as the distractors are overrepresented in this forum) responds yes, then the shared "professional" opinion of yourself and your PR peers means little because it's not consistent with what the real public thinks.

+1 thanks for sharing some common sense.

his 'professional opinion' and his supposed PR Peers do not count as fact as he tries to present.

 

[samcraig]

+1 thanks for sharing some common sense.

his 'professional opinion' and his supposed PR Peers do not count as fact as he tries to present.

You're right.. what value would a bunch of people in the profession possible have. How ridiculous. But yet you defer to subject matter experts regarding RF engineering? A tad hypocritical, don't you think?

Anyway and again - no point in furthering a discussion where neither "side" will change their mind.

 

[shandyman]

You're right.. what value would a bunch of people in the profession possible have. How ridiculous. But yet you defer to subject matter experts regarding RF engineering? A tad hypocritical, don't you think?

Anyway and again - no point in furthering a discussion where neither "side" will change their mind.

i'd moved on from talking to you, but you seem to not be able to let it go....

considering public relations relies on PUBLIC opinion, and i'm a member of the public, i think that's justified that wether we think it's a balls up or not is what counts... say whatever you want, i'm not replying to you on this matter anymore.

 

[samcraig]

+1 thanks for sharing some common sense.

his 'professional opinion' and his supposed PR Peers do not count as fact as he tries to present.

i'd moved on from talking to you, but you seem to not be able to let it go....

considering public relations relies on PUBLIC opinion, and i'm a member of the public, i think that's justified that wether we think it's a balls up or not is what counts... say whatever you want, i'm not replying to you on this matter anymore.

Likewise to you as well. And if that's YOUR criteria - so be it.

I also won't passive aggressively make comments to you via a 3rd party post. You didn't really move on... but perhaps now we both will.

 

[alFR]

<snip>

I am talking about the PR efforts put forth by Apple. And without a single shred of doubt by me, my colleagues, the media and many other people who can look at the big picture know that the PR efforts were a massive failure.

But you still haven't answered my question: in what measurable way can you judge the success/failure of a company's PR efforts other than by looking at their impact on customer satisfaction ratings and product sales? Just talking about "their image" isn't measurable: there must be some outcome variable that companies use to judge whether a PR campaign has been a success or not, surely? If there is (and it isn't sales figures or customer satisfaction ratings), what is it?

 

[samcraig]

But you still haven't answered my question: in what measurable way can you judge the success/failure of a company's PR efforts other than by looking at their impact on customer satisfaction ratings and product sales? Just talking about "their image" isn't measurable: there must be some outcome variable that companies use to judge whether a PR campaign has been a success or not, surely? If there is (and it isn't sales figures or customer satisfaction ratings), what is it?

Well - answer this one. With the BP disaster and all the negative press. Do you think BP's sales will go down? Do you think manufacturers and individuals will not purchase BP oil or products that are made from oil from BP?

Can you still evaluate the actual PR campaign?

 

[LSUMaze]

But you still haven't answered my question: in what measurable way can you judge the success/failure of a company's PR efforts other than by looking at their impact on customer satisfaction ratings and product sales? Just talking about "their image" isn't measurable: there must be some outcome variable that companies use to judge whether a PR campaign has been a success or not, surely? If there is (and it isn't sales figures or customer satisfaction ratings), what is it?

Actually, sales and C/S are both the measures, but not total sales and not total C/S you have to first to separate the "Cult" consumers first. Apple is a cult brand and it's loyal customers will blindly trust the message because of what apple means to them. Things are different for other consumers, they're not easily persuaded and they are the ones that count during a PR campaign. That's my opinion.

 

[dagomike]

But you still haven't answered my question: in what measurable way can you judge the success/failure of a company's PR efforts other than by looking at their impact on customer satisfaction ratings and product sales? Just talking about "their image" isn't measurable: there must be some outcome variable that companies use to judge whether a PR campaign has been a success or not, surely? If there is (and it isn't sales figures or customer satisfaction ratings), what is it?

One way to measure Apple's image is when people buy a product even though it's proven faulty. They trust Apple to not put out a bad product, so either the reports are exaggerated or they're confident Apple will make it right.

Apple has tons of good will with consumers, and that's what's really at risk here. Not iPhone sales, but future sales across all product categories, including the lucrative AppleCare. I think they bit hard and did the right thing, but I'm curious to see what happens next.

 

[alFR]

Well - answer this one. With the BP disaster and all the negative press. Do you think BP's sales will go down? Do you think manufacturers and individuals will not purchase BP oil or products that are made from oil from BP?

Can you still evaluate the actual PR campaign?

<sigh>

So how would you evaluate it (in a measurable way, not just an "I think it was poor" way) then? Are you basically saying that there is no objective way to evaluate the success of a PR campaign?

 

[samcraig]

Actually, sales and C/S are both the measures, but not total sales and not total C/S you have to first to separate the "Cult" consumers first. Apple is a cult brand and it's loyal customers will blindly trust the message because of what apple means to them. Things are different for other consumers, they're not easily persuaded and they are the ones that count during a PR campaign. That's my opinion.

And as I have also said - there are several other components such as Brand image that get affected. Which is exclusive (or can be) to sales and other customer service/loyalty aspects.

Another "error" that people are making (which I said earlier) is that they are basing their opinion on the here and now when the effects of PR can sometimes not present themselves for weeks, months or years. It's not immediate cause and effect. If only it were that simple.

Case in point - look at the media and what they said IMMEDIATELY following the press conference. I think you'll find that most of the press didn't buy the messaging presented by Apple. That means that, in the court of the PRESS - the PRESS RELATIONS aspect of Public Relations failed. And miserably. Apple did not get the press they wanted right after that conference. Sure they got "kudos" for providing bumpers - but that's pretty much the only positive thing that came out of their presentation. And even those "kudos" were marginal.

 

[samcraig]

<sigh>

So how would you evaluate it (in a measurable way, not just an "I think it was poor" way) then? Are you basically saying that there is no objective way to evaluate the success of a PR campaign?

And I'm saying it's not "linear" like that.

How do you evaluate a movie. A restaurant. A book?

Some people may love it or hate it. But then there are also people who have industry expertise or years of experience with the subject matter who can evaluate it on many levels based on that experience. My opinions in this thread are based on my experience much like an editor of a book can determine whether or not a chapter needs to be re-written or that plot points aren't coming across well or one of a million things editors do for authors.

I evaluated the PR that Apple has conducted during this scenario and find it a failure. One example is one in my previous post re: how the media responded to the press conference.

 

[LSUMaze]

And as I have also said - there are several other components such as Brand image that get affected. Which is exclusive (or can be) to sales and other customer service/loyalty aspects.

Another "error" that people are making (which I said earlier) is that they are basing their opinion on the here and now when the effects of PR can sometimes not present themselves for weeks, months or years. It's not immediate cause and effect. If only it were that simple.

Case in point - look at the media and what they said IMMEDIATELY following the press conference. I think you'll find that most of the press didn't buy the messaging presented by Apple. That means that, in the court of the PRESS - the PRESS RELATIONS aspect of Public Relations failed. And miserably. Apple did not get the press they wanted right after that conference. Sure they got "kudos" for providing bumpers - but that's pretty much the only positive thing that came out of their presentation. And even those "kudos" were marginal.

I totally agree; it takes time for the PR effect to materialize, it's not magic.
As for the third point, well, when you're the leader in a market everyone is waiting for you to make a mistake, but when you do things right they just don't care, it's politics. The Media want to sell their messages as well and watchers are not interested in good news, they're interested in the bad news; they're human. Reminds me of Seinfeld gig, we enjoy other peoples pain, that's why we all laugh when someone breaks his/ her neck on America's funniest home videos

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Case in point - look at the media and what they said IMMEDIATELY following the press conference. I think you'll find that most of the press didn't buy the messaging presented by Apple. That means that, in the court of the PRESS - the PRESS RELATIONS aspect of Public Relations failed. And miserably. Apple did not get the press they wanted right after that conference. Sure they got "kudos" for providing bumpers - but that's pretty much the only positive thing that came out of their presentation. And even those "kudos" were marginal.

Of course, the media was pissed they were proven wrong with Apple's facts that the problem affected only a minority of users and after Apple basically told them to S.TFU. However, you're not considering the long term effect. Case in point - consider what the media did in Toyota's unintended acceleration drama for quite a long time following their public apology. The media kept hounding Toyota for many months based on the few vocal distractors, even going so far as to make James Sikes's fake unintended acceleration in the Prius, which wasn't even one of the recalled models, a news. It seems like if Toyota had done what Apple did and presented some "facts" upfront, the media would not have hounded Toyota for quite as long (except for the witch hunt after Toyota by our own congress, which added to the media frenzy). In Apple's case, antennagate is not even mentioned in the news anymore. On the other hand, the media hysteria didn't really die down for Toyota until NHTSA's relunctant findings that the problem was due to driver errors, much like how things didn't turn around for Pepsi until they launched an all-out campaign against the "syringe in the Pepsi can" hoaxers.

For someone with 20 years of experience as a PR professional, you seem awfully quiet about the Toyota incident and other PR cases.

 

[samcraig]

Of course, the media was pissed they were proven wrong with Apple's facts that the problem affected only a minority of users and after Apple basically told them to S.TFU. However, you're not considering the long term effect. Case in point - consider what the media did in Toyota's unintended acceleration drama for quite a long time following their public apology. The media kept hounding Toyota for many months based on the few vocal distractors, even going so far as to make James Sikes's fake unintended acceleration in the Prius, which wasn't even one of the recalled models, a news. It seems like if Toyota had done what Apple did and presented some "facts" upfront, the media would not have hounded Toyota for quite as long (except for the witch hunt after Toyota by our own congress, which added to the media frenzy). In Apple's case, antennagate is not even mentioned in the news anymore. On the other hand, the media hysteria didn't really die down for Toyota until NHTSA's relunctant findings that the problem was due to driver errors, much like how things didn't turn around for Pepsi until they launched an all-out campaign against the "syringe in the Pepsi can" hoaxers.

For someone with 20 years of experience as a PR professional, you seem awfully quiet about the Toyota incident and other PR cases.

This is an Apple forum. You're going to criticize me for not going into an analysis of PR campaigns for cars and soda pop now? Really?

And what big picture am I missing? I stated the big picture - and that is that the aftermath of Apple's poor PR campaign has yet to be seen. Time will be the ultimate arbiter - not current sales.

But feel free to deride the conversation away from Apple by insisting one bringing up irrelevant case studies from companies that have nothing to do with Apple.