Setapp Planning to Launch Alternative App Store for iOS in Europe

[BaldiMac]

Hopefully there’s some way to enable sideloading outside of the EU… if it requires a device purchased from the EU, I may very well import my device.

Sideloading is such a huge feature. Hopefully the US wakes up and actually starts enforcing their antitrust laws again.

The EU didn't start enforcing any laws. They made new ones to force changes on a company with a 30% market share rather than the company that is actually breaking antitrust law by entering into anticompetitive agreements with its horizontal competitors to control 70% of the market.

 

[snoonw]

choice is a beautiful thing and if u dont want it no worries
but sideloading is good but will they just allow 3rd party stores or u can load any single app directly from say netflix or spotify directly.
if its direct its totally 100% safe. and cuts out appl
also u can download older versions
and u can even use a cloner to run both the new version side by side to make comparison

u can like use this to see if apple downgrades the camera after new phone. from my testing technically they dont but they make sure the camera ages very very badly so ur forced to upgrade ur phone and most of the important things r in software

also ppl can make new camera features on older phones. i have pixel phone and google takes many months to bring new camera features to older phones but the camera still gets upgraded for like 4-5yrs but u just have to wait months. xda developers (a very trusted source ) had released camera features within days of the new phone


i have never ever got any spam on my pixel phone but i just dont download everything use ur intelligence to download what u think is safe

 

[alchemistmuffin]

Apple is expected to be compelled to allow users to download apps from outside its official App Store. Otherwise known as sideloading, the change would allow customers to download apps without needing to use the App Store, which would mean developers wouldn't need to pay Apple's 15 to 30 percent fees

Unfortunately I don’t think Apple will make changes for while until the Epic lawsuit is decided by SCOTUS. Instead Apple is just going to start paying the fines to EU rather than complying for time being.

There was NO MENTION of sideloading for iOS 17 during WWDC keynote meaning Apple’s stance hasn’t changed, and won’t make final changes till SCOTUS decides the case.

 

[koil]

In the sideload-friendly world of android, spyware apps that can track the cameras, microphones, text and call logs, take screenshots, all of this **** can be installed on a non-rooted device and hidden away from view - I just had to help a friend with one of these things on his samsung device. This is impossible on an iPhone without jailbreaking, and jailbreaking causes a number of obvious hints that something is wrong.

So, my concern here stems from if apps can just be installed on my device, and they get full SDK and sensor access... iPhone is going to end up in the same morass as android in terms of trust.

Sideloaded apps won't magically be able to access camera, microphone, SMS, call logs, take screenshots, or location data on iOS, the sandbox will require the user to give the app access to these things in order to enable those APIs in the sandbox. Without this user approval, these API calls will simply return no data.

 

[DanTheMan827]

You are simultaneously telling me it will be like the Mac while also saying it will not suffer the Mac’s biggest headache.

Something doesn’t add up here.

Mac started as an open platform, it’s still an open platform.

The Mac App Store limits what developers can do, alternative iOS app stores wouldn’t be any more limited than the official App Store.

Developers by necessity have to distribute some apps outside of the Mac App Store, but that would be entirely optional on iOS unless it’s an app Apple doesn’t want on the store for whatever reason.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Unfortunately I don’t think Apple will make changes for while until the Epic lawsuit is decided by SCOTUS. Instead Apple is just going to start paying the fines to EU rather than complying for time being.

There was NO MENTION of sideloading for iOS 17 during WWDC keynote meaning Apple’s stance hasn’t changed, and won’t make final changes till SCOTUS decides the case.

I doubt Apple will pay 10% of their worldwide annual turnover just to give up a small percentage of the EU App Store fees.

 

[Verified Whiskey]

to comply with the new European regulations by next year. Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue.

Still have no idea how they got away with this. How is this allowed? Or legal? Global revenue? Not just the revenue from the EU? That seems like huge overreach to me.

 

[Verified Whiskey]

Mac started as an open platform, it’s still an open platform.

The Mac App Store limits what developers can do, alternative iOS app stores wouldn’t be any more limited than the official App Store.

Developers by necessity have to distribute some apps outside of the Mac App Store, but that would be entirely optional on iOS unless it’s an app Apple doesn’t want on the store for whatever reason.

True, but have you seen how barren the Mac App Store is? That’s going to be the iOS App Store in a few years of allowing side loading. Developers won’t want to pay the fees, so the only way to get their app will be directly installing it from their website, or from another app store.

 

[snoonw]

The EU didn't start enforcing any laws. They made new ones to force changes on a company with a 30% market share rather than the company that is actually breaking antitrust law by entering into anticompetitive agreements with its horizontal competitors to control 70% of the market.

but google already allows u to sideload anything u want. the reason for this law was coz spotify had to unfairly compete with appl music. or netflix vs appl tv

 

[DanTheMan827]

You forgot at least one additional cost...

Pay license fees to Apple for using their intellectual property, e.g. APIs, etc.

If Apple makes it just as expensive as doing business on the App Store, I doubt the EU will allow it.

 

[acader]

I agree. Just look at all scam/fake apps and the fraud being perpetrated on the Google Play Store.

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Oh, wait. This is Apple's App Store. 🤣

Point made. Apple has more than 1.5 million apps on its store. All of them were reviewed and only then let onto the App Store. Sure, did 10 of them sneak by. Sure they did. Did Apple do anything about it. Sure they did. Were these malware or other sneaks taken off the store. Yes they were.

Overall, atleast with Apple there is a system in place to protect and prevent, failing which, there is a way to pull it down.

 

[BaldiMac]

but google already allows u to sideload anything u want.

That was my point. The sideloading requirement targeted Apple.

the reason for this law was coz spotify had to unfairly compete with appl music. or netflix vs appl tv

No, it's not. (And neither Netflix nor Spotify offer IAP, so the don't pay Apple anything.)

 

[snoonw]

Because there won't. What benefit would developers have to bum-rush out of the App Store? They already have established customers on the App Store. If they suddenly pulled out, then they lose their established customers, established customers who most of which only use App Stores. It's the same case on Android. Fortnite tried to bum-rush out of the Google Play Store, and the result was hardly anyone used the .apk version of Fortnite over the Google Play Store version.

So no, they ain't gonna leave. They'd have too much to lose to just up and leave the app store.

there is a way for established developers to make more money - the key word been established -- they can increase the price on app store by 30% and give the discount thru direct sale. but if ur newbie developer hard luck.
also facebook might allow features that appl doesnt allow

 

[laszlo182]

I hope the UK is still considered part of ‘Europe’

The article has a misleading title but if you actually read the body the last sentence is “It will be available in the European Union only.”

 

[subjonas]

Crazy that consumers would complain about having more options.

An alternate app store does not give options to consumers, it gives options to developers. And if developers choose to leave Apple’s App Store, then consumers will then have LESS choices of apps if they want to stay in Apple’s App Store. This is for the benefit of developers, not consumers.

 

[subjonas]

there is a way for established developers to make more money - the key word been established -- they can increase the price on app store by 30% and give the discount thru direct sale. but if ur newbie developer hard luck.
also facebook might allow features that appl doesnt allow

I believe for smaller developers it’s 15%.

 

[giebe]

And in the end you’ll need 5 different stores to download apps, when developers start to do exclusive deals, just like on gaming or streaming

 

[alchemistmuffin]

I doubt Apple will pay 10% of their worldwide annual turnover just to give up a small percentage of the EU App Store fees.

Except Apple has done something similar with Dutch dating app case where Apple just paid the fines until all legal options were exhausted.

Apple will probably just pay the fines in this case as well until legal options are exhausted in this case. If Apple wins the Epic case in SCOTUS (which they will likely thanks to how useless SCOTUS has become) they will likely use same tactics to appeal the case to EU. And Apple has enough cash flow to just keep paying the fines at this point, even with 10% turnover.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

Die hard apple fan here (I’ve had almost every product for almost 20 years).

This is great. We should have been able to get the software we wanted on our pocket computer aka iPhone from day 1.

The only reason “side loading” is a term is because of the overbearing constraints apple has placed on iOS since day 1.

Now, the consumer wins.

If you don’t want to load an app outside of the App Store, don’t! But for those who will, this is great.

Now Apple gets to play in the big leagues.

If their solution is truly better, people will use it.

And if they don’t, then apple doesn’t offer the best solution

Now the consumer speaks.

Now the market speaks.

Time to see if the Apple Store is truly better for developers and consumers or not.

 

[The_Gream]

I don't think "allowing other app stores" equals "giving those 3rd party apps system access". You will simply be able to download an APP in its own sandbox from different platforms but it does not mean you will be allowed to tweak system related things. Android does not even allow that if I am not mistaken unless you root your device.

--

Apple did a pretty great job "brainwashing" people. Making it seem like they are the only ones that you can trust with your data or bank information like ... personally I have been using my credit card for buying things online all my life without issues and none of them are related to Apple. Why is Apple seen as the holy grail?

I actually have a good example of Apple being "not so great". Just 2 weeks ago, a tiny company from the US used our company name and brand to launch an App on the App Store so if you searched for our company, you would see their app right below our app, with literally the same name and Apple did not ban it until we took it to the lawyer. You would think they'd do something as basic as checking if an app with the same name is already on the store?

I believe, from what you have stated as your example, the best and worst part of the Apple App Store is the people doing the reviews.
I personally don’t like governments mandating things, but humans/businesses have a history of being human. At this point, side loading will be a thing and I couldn’t care ether way.
If Apple wants to remain top dog on their own platform, they will have to provide their A game from start to finish (and I don’t mean they need to kiss donkey butt). They will have to sell developers why they are the better option.
If Apple is taking as a commission 15-30% what does that cover.
- up to 5% for credit card transaction
- exchange fees (if the app is in multiple markets)
- taxes
- etc.

 

[BaldiMac]

Die hard apple fan here (I’ve had almost every product for almost 20 years).

This is great. We should have been able to get the software we wanted on our pocket computer aka iPhone from day 1.

The only reason “side loading” is a term is because of the overbearing constraints apple has placed on iOS since day 1.

Now, the consumer wins.

If you don’t want to load an app outside of the App Store, don’t! But for those who will, this is great.

Now Apple gets to play in the big leagues.

If their solution is truly better, people will use it.

And if they don’t, then apple doesn’t offer the best solution

Now the consumer speaks.

Now the market speaks.

Time to see if the Apple Store is truly better for deveI lopers and consumers or not.

This isn't the market speaking. It's the EU government. The actual market and actual consumers said that Apple's approach deserved most of their money.

Consumers won't benefit. The only ones that will are large corporations who have been lobbying for these changes. Billion dollar corporations trying to take a byte out of trillion dollar corporations. They're just using small developers and consumers to create empathy.

 

[ikjadoon]

And in the end you’ll need 5 different stores to download apps, when developers start to do exclusive deals, just like on gaming or streaming

Apple could've avoided this and still can.

Microsoft offers "Stores within Stores", so everything is still within the Microsoft Store on Windows.

Apple: when people say you should get ahead of regulation, ☝️is what they mean 😂

 

[ikjadoon]

Consumers won't benefit. The only ones that will are large corporations who have been lobbying for these changes. Billion dollar corporations trying to take a byte out of trillion dollar corporations. They're just using small developers and consumers to create empathy.

Centuries of anti-trust would like to have a word with you. How many app categories does Apple blatantly discriminate against?

Web browsers, game streaming, etc.'

Maybe Apple will improve its app review process and make it safer worldwide (instead of just the EU), too, once it finally gets competition.

I trust Setapp ~1000x more than the App Store for safe, non-bloatware, non-trash apps.

 

[blicked]

re: DMA - I think that is a dumb move. I am not comfortable having a "side load" on my iPhone due to security issues.

Then don't use it.

 

[mrat93]

Says who? Any context for that statement?

Source: Sarcasm.

Sorry.