Setapp Will Be One of iPhone's First Alternative App Marketplaces in EU

[spazzcat]

Yes, in my fantasy world, I can compare prices for the same items available at Walmart, Target, HD, Lowes, etc and then take advantage of the lowest price offer. Amazon is also a good one to mix into that shopping... as it countless others competitors discoverable via tools like Google Shopping. Consider this great consumer flexibility vs.- say- ceding all retail to any one of them so they have no natural drive at all to lower prices and cut their own "another quarter or record revenue & profit" throats.

Walmart normally demands a different size be made for their stores, so it is much harder to price shop. This is after making you change to their accounting and inventory software. Oh, and they tell you how much you can charge for the product and how much you will make. You can read how they almost put Vlasic out of business.

 

[RigSatMe]

Gimmick!

 

[one more]

I have had to clean mac's with viruses.. and most now need antiviral software...A walled garden is perfect for me.

And I have been using Macs since 2006 and… no security issues whatsoever.

 

[Warfie]

Makes me sick to my stomach what the EU is doing to the iPhone. I wish Apple would just leave instead dealing with this nightmare

Amazing how childish Apple fans can sound. Have a good life and do not worry, nobody is gonna steal your life. Cheers from EU.

 

[one more]

What happens when an alternative app store goes belly up, and a developer moves an app to another app store? Will all the data from the app downloaded from store A retain all user data when it moves to store B? Honest question and an entirely possible scenario with several competing app stores.

How would app moving store be related to in-app user data storage and management? 🤔

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Walmart normally demands a different size be made for their stores, so it is much harder to price shop. This is after making you change to their accounting and inventory software. Oh, and they tell you how much you can charge for the product and how much you will make. You can read how they almost put Vlasic out of business.

If shopping around is hard, don't shop around. If Walmart value in particular is too difficult to judge, shop around at many other retailers for head-to-head comparisons. I do not find this challenging at all but if I did, I might let my browser do some shopping to find the best online price and have it arrive at my door. Or if I'm an in-person shopper, I can easily scan a bar code to quickly check competitive pricing for anything in which I'm interested in store... to help decide if the very same thing is available for less somewhere else or if this offered price is good enough to buy it now.

If shopping around for EU apps becomes too hard, buy your apps from the Apple App Store. If others can handle the challenges of shopping around for EU apps, maybe they save some money by finding a lower price.

Nothing is being forced on anyone here- especially anyone outside the EU who is basically completely unaffected... but quick to comment on affairs that can't impact their app buying or app selections at all. If EU people don't want any of these options, they can refuse any such offers and only shop in the Apple store. If other EU people want competition, they can be the ones to take advantage of such options.

 

[jasonsmith_88]

The opinions on this thread are so weird. People who want the ability to sideload are perfectly happy for others to continue using the official App Store. Yet the people who don’t want to sideload inexplicably take issue with people who want to sideload.

Your rights end when they infringe on someone else. Do whatever you want with your own device. The App Store isn’t going anywhere and no one is forcing you to sideload. But don’t you dare tell me what I can and can’t do with my devices.

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

I can’t wait for the millions of iPhone users in Europe to tell their tales of having their identities stolen and banks hacked after installing Flappy Bird from a third party.

/s

 

[Apollo68]

Buy buying the proper phone for the app store you want...Hence choice. . Look, if you want the options available on a BMW don't buy a Mercedes. You make decisions up front. and live with your choice...EU is destroying tech.

then explain why I can put a chevy LS engine into a porsche.

 

[MilaM]

Walmart normally demands a different size be made for their stores, so it is much harder to price shop. This is after making you change to their accounting and inventory software. Oh, and they tell you how much you can charge for the product and how much you will make. You can read how they almost put Vlasic out of business.

In the EU, every price label (or advertisement) has to have the per kg / per Liter price in addition to the price of the packaging unit. Makes price comparison very easy for consumers who care. In most countries competition between supermarket chains is quite fierce.

 

[hagar]

What happens when an alternative app store goes belly up, and a developer moves an app to another app store? Will all the data from the app downloaded from store A retain all user data when it moves to store B? Honest question and an entirely possible scenario with several competing app stores.

That issue is entirely up to the devs to address. If they somehow transfer the customers accounts it could just work fine. But if they don’t, I guess customers have to pay again.

In the case of the subscription based Setapp store, it’s pretty easy. The moment you stop paying or the store stops, you lose access to the apps.

 

[threesixty360]

The opinions on this thread are so weird. People who want the ability to sideload are perfectly happy for others to continue using the official App Store. Yet the people who don’t want to sideload inexplicably take issue with people who want to sideload.

Your rights end when they infringe on someone else. Do whatever you want with your own device. The App Store isn’t going anywhere and no one is forcing you to sideload. But don’t you dare tell me what I can and can’t do with my devices.

I think people are worried that apps that come from third party stores can act as a conduit and propel malware to devices that don’t use the third party store.

It’s pretty obvious that hackers will be attacking in that way. Whereas before they had to get through Apple to start such an attack off and Apple had the ability to stop those apps remotely. Now the third party store has that responsibility.

In short people trust Apple but don’t trust third parties. Because Apple have a pretty good record on this stuff. No one else has really.

 

[MAlbi]

Don’t you know the risks of viruses, your information being stolen, and your life being ruined! /s

Well then lets call it privacy, protection, customer experience or anything and voila it does not look bad. Competition will take care of the drama.

 

[twintin]

And I have been using Macs since 2006 and… no security issues whatsoever.

I have never had a burglar in my house, but others have. So what exactly do you want to say ? That there are no security issues or that hey are rare because you hav not encountered any ?

 

[MilaM]

Whereas before they had to get through Apple to start such an attack off and Apple had the ability to stop those apps remotely.

Apple still has this ability. They even have this ability on macOS. There are programs running on every Apple device that essentially work like anti-virus software. Additionally they can block every signed app remotely from launching.

Did you know that macOS phones back to the mothership on every program launch to ask if the program is legit or not? Every program, not only the ones bought form the macOS app store.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I can’t wait for the millions of iPhone users in Europe to tell their tales of having their identities stolen and banks hacked after installing Flappy Bird from a third party.

/s

Exactly, them crazy EU politicians already "forced" USB-C onto all of our iPhones, making pocket lint go extinct, "forcing" us have to spend fortunes fixing the now wobbly port and I keep tripping over the pile of USB-C tongues broken out of iPhones with USB-C ports everywhere I go. I mean those tongues are EVERYWHERE. Pretty soon, it is going to come down to America having room for American citizens of piles & piles of USB-C tongues broken out of iPhones from normal use.

Clearly, politicians pushing for robust competition for their people do NOT know what they are doing.

also /s

 

[threesixty360]

What gets me is why people compare macOS with iOS when it comes to security and sideloading etc.
it’s a complety different thing.

MacOS has been fairly secure and virus free because
A) its traditionally had a much lower install base than windows so propergating malware had a far smaller network effect, plus malware writers couldn’t be bothered as well

B) it uses unix so read / write permissions complicate the ability for rogue programs to do as much damage

C) programs don’t are generally self contained and don’t have central registry’s and share components in the same way as windows stuff does


But even with all that, Apple worked their asses off to limit the attack vectors on macOS over the years. First forcing off third party run times like Flash. Which contained a large majority of exploits.
Then they brought in the App Store so they could control and police more that’s on a users system. They then tracked installs from the web and lots of other initiatives.

And even after that it’s still inherently no where near as secure as iOS!
IOS as a system is probably the most secure mass market OS ever made.
The attack surface is way over a billion devices , far more than windows ever had.
Yet not one virus , no massive malware problems and generally all users have a pretty safe system.

On top of that this device has far more personal data on it than any mac will generally have. It not only has payment data; your whereabouts, messaging, photos etc pretty much a users whole life on the device.

The EU somehow thinks that normal or even standard for that amount of data for that amount of users to be protected and also allow the same type of free access to the system an OS like windows has?

I think they’ve gone mental!
I don’t think any engineer who wasn’t on the take would ever believe that apples closed of model is not more secure than an open model.

All that’s happening is the EU feels that businesses in their region should make more money. Nothing else is going on. Definitely not consumer benefits.

And if anyone thinks prices are going to fall does not understand business. Price is decided by what people are willing to pay not just how much something costs. Otherwise there would be no Rolex or Gucci.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

In the EU, every price label (or advertisement) has to have the per kg / per Liter price in addition to the price of the packaging unit. Makes price comparison very easy for consumers who care. In most countries competition between supermarket chains is quite fierce.

We actually have that here too- some of us are just reaching for anything to try to argue against this consumer benefit for people in what is typically distant lands (and thus with laws that don't actually affect us at all).

Unfortunately, we Americans can't embrace the metric system so our Walmarts show prices "per ounces" and similar to help us shop product vs. product in store and Walmart vs. other retailers with our iDevices or by simply taking note (or pictures of such tags to compare with similar offerings at other stores).

I often just use apps like Google Shopping to check pricing at many online and traditional retailers at once and then go get it (or online order it) where the price is best. It's easy & fast and doesn't require much work at all.

 

[spazzcat]

In the EU, every price label (or advertisement) has to have the per kg / per Liter price in addition to the price of the packaging unit. Makes price comparison very easy for consumers who care. In most countries competition between supermarket chains is quite fierce.

Outside of myself, I have seen very few people calculate the per-unit cost of something. They look at the lowest price, and most times it isn't the best price per unit.

We actually have that here too- some of us are just reaching for anything to try to argue against this consumer benefit for people in what is typically distant lands (and thus with laws that don't actually affect us at all).

Unfortunately, we Americans can't embrace the metric system so our Walmarts show prices "per ounces" and similar to help us shop product vs. product in store and Walmart vs. other retailers with our iDevices or by simply taking note (or pictures of such tags to compare with similar offerings at other stores).

I often just use apps like Google Shopping to check pricing at many online and traditional retailers at once and then go get it (or online order it) where the price is best. It's easy & fast and doesn't require much work at all.

And I bet you would buy the low-priced item even if it costs more per unit. My favorite is when people buy meat. They will dig and dig in the container to find the one with the "lowest" price. And when you try to explain they all cost the same and you should buy the amount you want, they look at you like a deer in headlights.

 

[Mescagnus]

How would app moving store be related to in-app user data storage and management? 🤔

I think it's unknown at this point? If an app switches to another store, will it be the same app with same identifiers or another version of the app in a new sandbox? Would it have access to the same user data locally on iPhone as the old app? And if it's subscription based, how does payment information transfer to app store B if app store A (that went belly up) offered payment processing for customers & devs?

Perhaps this and other scenarios with apps changing stores has been thought out. Or perhaps it's dependent on how each app and app store is set up. It'll be interesting to see how the multiple app store scenarios play out once the changes are live for EU users.

What I am pretty sure about is that some app stores will fail (competition weeds out the weak) and the provider going out of business will affect users – if for nothing else than unforeseen inconvenience.

 

[MilaM]

Outside of myself, I have seen very few people calculate the per-unit cost of something. They look at the lowest price, and most times it isn't the best price per unit.

I do it too, where it makes sense (commodity like products). We must be the only two people in the world then. Haha.

 

[Kottu]

I don't like to download apps from other sources even in my Android. So no thanks.

 

[MilaM]

Unfortunately, we Americans can't embrace the metric system so our Walmarts show prices "per ounces" and similar to help us shop product vs. product in store and Walmart vs. other retailers with our iDevices or by simply taking note (or pictures of such tags to compare with similar offerings at other stores).

I think it has become standard in many regions around the world. I lived in the US for some time and could never get used to your system of measurements. So confusing, when you did not grow up with it.

 

[Taipan]

All this doom and gloom is hilarious. You have a choice in the EU, any one who is frightened can still use the App Store FFS. Been downloading from third Parties on my Mac for years, never had problems. I’m in the UK, so I still have to use the App Store, but I do anticipate the UK CMA to following the EU CMA, in fact many other territories probably will follow the EU lawmakers?

You don’t get it, other app stores being available will certainly have an effect on Apple‘s store as well (e.g. certain apps simply not being available anymore). And as people have explained before, market share has a huge effect on whether or not a platform is getting targeted by malware. Mac market share is nowhere near iPhone market share, so it’s not comparable. Countless a**holes around the world are probably already peeing their pants at the prospect of having better chances of getting a foot in the door.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

And I bet you would buy the low-priced item even if it costs more per unit. My favorite is when people buy meat. They will dig and dig in the container to find the one with the "lowest" price. And when you try to explain they all cost the same and you should buy the amount you want, they look at you like a deer in headlights.

No, as a consumer I choose- I weigh value vs. price- etc. I own a WHOLE BUNCH of Apple stuff but I could get mostly clones of it for much less by embracing Android/Windows/Chrome options. Why do I relatively overpay for Apple stuff? Because value plays a role in choices too.

One could buy the 4-day past "sell-by date", possibly rotting steaks for cheapest price... but there may be no real bargain there... especially if you end up in the emergency room getting a stomach pump.

I am the kind of buyer who wants maximum value for minimum spend... not only the latter... which is not what the seller wants: minimize costs and sell for maximum price. The bargain to be struck between those extremes is what "shopping around" and "competition" facilitates. Where there is no competition, seller gets what they want... whatever they want. Buyers only play against sellers price in that scenario is solely to say "NO" to the transaction.

So bring on competition and the buyer end of the capitalism game gets served. New competition entered into an area where there is none almost always results in prices being driven DOWN. It's the best way for consumers to get thrown a value bone instead of only making more and more and more for shareholders.

Part of the great genius of Apple is moving some fans to passionately argue their sellers side even against their own (consumer) self interest... as we can see in threads like this... in which people are passionately trying to argue for a single store instead of competition... even if the latter is going to happen anyway... and in a place that is beyond them, thus not affecting them at all. Why? Because the corp doesn't want competition and has framed arguments with concepts like security because some people will pay anything for the perception of greater security.

No matter how some reader of this post feels, it doesn't matter. This goose is already cooked. The EU will proceed with a much more competitive iDevice landscape. EU people will have options to install apps that the rest of us can't because the "helicopter" has decided that we can't have those apps. EU Apple people will be able to shop around for better pricing. They will be able to buy direct from some developers to give the creators of the apps more money instead of only 70% or 85% of the money. Etc.

The rest of the world can simply stand by and see what happens. If you believe this is disaster for the EU (security/virus/organized crime/locusts/frogs/plague), just watch it happen and see how right you were. And if pretty much nothing like that happens, you'll know once again that all this negative was much ado about nothing... as we just learned by the EU "forcing" USB-C upon our iPhones and bringing all of the disasters and security issues we saw coming by dumping lighting on iPhone.