Should Apple allow users to downgrade to ios 6?

[SakuraSuki]

No I am not wrong here. The manufacturer doesn't supply most of the roms like you state they do, so just because it is easy and possible doesn't mean they approve of it (most of the original roms are derived from device extractions and not the manufacturer providing them) and was the whole point of my argument, so you missed everything.

Also not all manufacturers supply the code either. This is why the droid fans had so many issues with rooting and newer no approved roms that made some of their hardware, such as keyboards, not work fully and in some cases not at all and the first 4g androids had no capability to run a vanilla rom and access the 4g radios (if what you claim is fact then this would not have been an issue, yet it was).

The argument that you are defending against was solely that the manufacturer doesn't supply or approve of downgrading. You have yet to provide even one valid claim stating the otherwise. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it is a supported option. Good day to you since you failed to provide even one proof otherwise (other than the few I provided originally) and are stuck in the hacker days. It is like arguing that the manufacturers support rooting and jail breaking because it can easily be done and the directions are out there on a third party site. I have done them and know it is easy but that doesn't mean it is supported by the manufacturer which was my whole original point, way to miss it.

At least I know, Samsung, Asus do supply official ROM on their website.

Here is Samsung Mobile official ROM download:

http://www.sammobile.com/firmwares/

If you go to Asus website, they provide firmware for their tablet as well, here is firmware for TF700T

http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Tablets_Mobile/ASUS_Transformer_Pad_TF700T#support

Here is all the ROM available for Nexus:

https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images

Again... All I am arguing is that regardless whether manufacture approve downgrade or not. It is entirely POSSIBLE for people do downgrade. However, on Apple's case, there is NO WAY to downgrade.

Even if most manufactures do not approve downgrading, rooting, hacking or anything. They don't go block every possible way like Apple do, that is the difference. Most manufactures do not publicly say they support downgrading, but they have no issues with you do so.

Arguing manufacture support is meaningless, in the end of the day, it is the problem of wether you can do it or not.

 

[squeakr]

At least I know, Samsung, Asus do supply official ROM on their website.

Here is Samsung Mobile official ROM download:

http://www.sammobile.com/firmwares/

If you go to Asus website, they provide firmware for their tablet as well, here is firmware for TF700T

http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Tablets_Mobile/ASUS_Transformer_Pad_TF700T#support



Again... All I am arguing is that regardless whether manufacture approve downgrade or not. It is entirely POSSIBLE for people do downgrade. However, on Apple's case, there is NO WAY to downgrade.

Even if most manufactures do not approve downgrading, rooting, hacking or anything. They don't go block every possible way like Apple do, that is the difference. Most manufactures do not publicly say they support downgrading, but they have no issues with you do so.

Arguing manufacture support is meaningless, in the end of the day, it is the problem of wether you can do it or not.

Not when the whole point of the thread and the argument is whether Apple should allow the downgrade and provide the older OS. Stop changing it midstream. Read the title and first post and you'll see the point of this thread.

Also I went to the sanding site and only saw the latest firmware (although I might have missed the others, but if that is the case apple supplies the most recent as well).

 

[Dented]

Again... All I am arguing is that regardless whether manufacture approve downgrade or not. It is entirely POSSIBLE for people do downgrade. However, on Apple's case, there is NO WAY to downgrade.

And that's why Android is a fragmented insecure mess, and IOS isn't. Good work, Apple.

 

[SakuraSuki]

Not when the whole point of the thread and the argument is whether Apple should allow the downgrade and provide the older OS. Stop changing it midstream. Read the title and first post and you'll see the point of this thread.

That is not changing midstream. Apple blocked every single possible way to downgrading. This is anti-consumer behaviour. Where other OEMs do not.

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And that's why Android is a fragmented insecure mess, and IOS isn't. Good work, Apple.

No Android fragmented mess is because of too many android phones out there. Google only provide the kernel to manufactures and manufactures need to create OS of their own.

With one OEMs releases many phones from low end to mid end, there is no possible way for OEMs provides updates for all phones. Also, since OEMs needs to program their own OS, software update will take time when Google announce new version of Android, because of Google only supply the kernel.

 

[Dented]

If that was a peak on me, I'm not talking about looks. I don't give a damn about visual design, I just don't care. All I need is a trouble-less experience.

No, not about you or any other particular poster, it's just a fact that people have differing opinions on the visual design (which does matter to people, I appreciate that) and some of those who don't like the look of IOS 7 are very keen to talk up how buggy/broken/catastrophic they deem it to be on a functional level because of that. In reality it's absolutely no more buggy/poor performing than any other .0 release IMO, I think it's just the higher profile of the change bringing things into stark relief.

And to reiterate - no, there should no going back, just forward with fixes for those who need them, same as always.

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No Android fragmented mess is because of too many android phones out there.

That's another reason. The fact that people can hack their phones so easily and run any old ROM certainly doesn't help.

 

[nikicampos]

That is not changing midstream. Apple blocked every single possible way to downgrading. This is anti-consumer behaviour. Where other OEMs do not.

What are you talking about anti-blah blah blah...

I think it's just a matter of time for you to start calling it illegal.

 

[me7]

Not when the whole point of the thread and the argument is whether Apple should allow the downgrade and provide the older OS. Stop changing it midstream. Read the title and first post and you'll see the point of this thread.

Actually, it is you who tries to change the subject all the time. This thread is about whether Apple should stop blocking all attempts of downgrades. They have servers in place which prevent installations of old version. We just want Apple stop stop blocking us.

People like you respond with explanations that it would be ridiculous to develop additional downgrade procedures. That Apple shouldn't spend effort on distributing special one-click downgrade OTAs. That they shouldn't worry about ways for us to keep our data.
You write that page after page as if these were our demands.

Nobody ever demanded anything like that. We just want to be able to use iTunes to restore our iDevices to iOS6 and we don't care if we lose our data in the process. Apple shouldn't do anything more than stop blocking.

 

[SakuraSuki]

What are you talking about anti-blah blah blah...

I think it's just a matter of time for you to start calling it illegal.

When company go againest consumer's interest, then it is anti-consumer. It should make illegal for company forcing consumer stay on latest OS without way to downgrade.

 

[springsup]

No; if there are bugs Apple should fix them. Apple also test every device to make sure it can run the new OS with acceptable levels of UI fluidity.

If they allowed downgrades, it would fragment the entire platform. The best thing is for Apple to find some compromise solution that will scale to give most people a great experience.

 

[panzer06]

Isn't there someplace on the internet that has the old stuff and some method to rollback? Doesn't the internet have everything you could ever want?

Cheers,

 

[SakuraSuki]

No; if there are bugs Apple should fix them. Apple also test every device to make sure it can run the new OS with acceptable levels of UI fluidity.

If they allowed downgrades, it would fragment the entire platform. The best thing is for Apple to find some compromise solution that will scale to give most people a great experience.

Only way that can cause fragment is massive users to downgrade. And according to many forum users, this is unlikely to happen. If you seriously worrying about allowing downgrade could cause fragmentation, then you agree massive amount if users do not like iOS 7.

 

[squeakr]

Actually, it is you who tries to change the subject all the time. This thread is about whether Apple should stop blocking all attempts of downgrades. They have servers in place which prevent installations of old version. We just want Apple stop stop blocking us.

People like you respond with explanations that it would be ridiculous to develop additional downgrade procedures. That Apple shouldn't spend effort on distributing special one-click downgrade OTAs. That they shouldn't worry about ways for us to keep our data.
You write that page after page as if these were our demands.

Nobody ever demanded anything like that. We just want to be able to use iTunes to restore our iDevices to iOS6 and we don't care if we lose our data in the process. Apple shouldn't do anything more than stop blocking.

Stop shifting the blame. Never before has it been presented that the users don't care about losing data. You are the only one claiming otherwise. Only a few times has it specifically stated they wanted an iTunes solution. Most of the other claims are that Apple needs to offer a solution. Why when I put a one click solution to it, as the majority complaining didn't have the knowledge to update without such a provision is place am I being outrageous. Just because you don't agree with my sentiments doesn't make them any more right or wrong than yours. Tell me if you lost all your data you wouldn't be screaming bloody murder? We already have one thread where the OP thinks Apple should apologize, as 6 was such a great feat and 7 is awful. How about the thread about the messages eating up excess space. That was a bug in 6 that people are still haunted by (one poster had 15 GB eaten by that bug). Face it. All the releases had issues and this is really no worse than the others.

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No; if there are bugs Apple should fix them. Apple also test every device to make sure it can run the new OS with acceptable levels of UI fluidity.

If they allowed downgrades, it would fragment the entire platform. The best thing is for Apple to find some compromise solution that will scale to give most people a great experience.

What are effective levels of fluidity? That is an arbitrary measurement for sure. Apple obviously thought the animation was acceptable yet many users would disagree. If you could see the supporting test documents you would see that the OS was tested and met the standards set forth by Apple (now matter how arbitrary and discretionary they may be). Without standards, qualms and measurements are only as good as the qualifiers.

 

[SakuraSuki]

All the releases had issues and this is really no worse than the others.

So in other words, OEMs should not block downgrade when new releases clearly has issues. Users should able to downgrade to old version because it is more mature and has lesser issue.

 

[nikicampos]

When company go againest consumer's interest, then it is anti-consumer. It should make illegal for company forcing consumer stay on latest OS without way to downgrade.

Oh my friend, you sink lower every time you post, you don't own the software, Apple is the owner, they can do whatever they want with the software, you should read the EULA.

Also, this is not going after the consumer's interest, actually is for the benefit of the majority of the consumers, this way, almost every developer makes iOS 7 as a priority because the majority of iOS users will be in the latest version, in the end, Apple is thinking about a software that has a lot of support.

Technology changes everyday, we see new iOS software every year, embrace the changes or move on.

 

[SakuraSuki]

Oh my friend, you sink lower every time you post, you don't own the software, Apple is the owner, they can do whatever they want with the software, you should read the EULA.

Also, this is not going after the consumer's interest, actually is for the benefit of the majority of the consumers, this way, almost every developer makes iOS 7 as a priority because the majority of iOS users will be in the latest version, in the end, Apple is thinking about a software that has a lot of support.

Technology changes everyday, we see new iOS software every year, embrace the changes or move on.

1. You are the one sink lower every time. It is my hardware, I have the god damn right to choose which version of software I want to use.

2. Unless majority of users downgrade, there won't be any issue of fragmentation. Your argument does not hold. By the way, as I point out several time, because there are lots of people who stuck with older device, majority of developers support older version of iOS.

3. Why should I embrace the changes if the software doesn't fit me? Why should consumer force to embrace the change?

 

[Dented]

It is my hardware, I have the god damn right to choose which version of software I want to use.

You chose IOS 7. Congratulations. End of discussion.

 

[C DM]

Oh my friend, you sink lower every time you post, you don't own the software, Apple is the owner, they can do whatever they want with the software, you should read the EULA.

Also, this is not going after the consumer's interest, actually is for the benefit of the majority of the consumers, this way, almost every developer makes iOS 7 as a priority because the majority of iOS users will be in the latest version, in the end, Apple is thinking about a software that has a lot of support.

Technology changes everyday, we see new iOS software every year, embrace the changes or move on.

You are not saying that Apple can create an update that removes much functionality of what's on your device, have you install it, and then you just have to be with a device that is crippled and that's that, are you?

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You chose IOS 7. Congratulations. End of discussion.

And having a downgrade path is somehow bad for consumers how again?

 

[Dented]

And having a downgrade path is somehow bad for consumers how again?

Read the thread again, the answers are there if you choose to see them

 

[C DM]

Read the thread again, the answers are there if you choose to see them

Kept up with it. Don't really see much of anything pointing to it being an overall bad idea to have an available downgrade path from the consumer side of things.

 

[tripleg]

Given Apples propensity for profit I'm surprised they don't take advantage of this and offer a rollback to iOS6 for a fee.

How is an OPTION to downgrade going to hurt? Especially given all the iOS7 supporters claiming that everyone likes the flat white blurry design. There wouldn't be that many downgrading according to them.

 

[springsup]

Only way that can cause fragment is massive users to downgrade. And according to many forum users, this is unlikely to happen. If you seriously worrying about allowing downgrade could cause fragmentation, then you agree massive amount if users do not like iOS 7.

It's not up to me whether or not lots of users like or dislike iOS7.

The point I was making is still valid even id iOS7 was widely disliked: rather than split the platform, Apple needs to correct what's wrong with iOS7 that would drive people away.

Downgrading would be a lazy solution for Apple to give. It treats the symptom, not the cause.

 

[me7]

A lot of people here bring up the EULA as an argument how we signed our rights to downgrade away. From what I know about US law, this could actually be true over there. As far as Europe is concerned, such paragraphs in EULAs don't mean ****, they're not worth the electricity costs it takes to render them on the screen.
If someone was to take Apple on in legal battle over this, chances are that the court would force Apple to allow downgrades in the European Union. Such a legal battle would take ages however, and the bugs of iOS7 will be fixed by then anyway. Still, the EULA is a weak argument for why Apple is allowed to force buggy software onto us.

Downgrading would be a lazy solution for Apple to give. It treats the symptom, not the cause.

We don't mean it as a solution, just as a remedy until iOS7 is fixed. As of now, forcing people to stay on the still buggy iOS7 is the worst course of action.

Stop shifting the blame. Never before has it been presented that the users don't care about losing data. You are the only one claiming otherwise. Only a few times has it specifically stated they wanted an iTunes solution. Most of the other claims are that Apple needs to offer a solution. Why when I put a one click solution to it, as the majority complaining didn't have the knowledge to update without such a provision is place am I being outrageous.

There has been only one thing presented to you over and over again: we want Apple to allow iOS6 installations.
I'm amazed by your way of reasoning. Because I never stated that I don't want something, you assume that I'm asking for it.

I also never stated that I don't want Apple to mow my lawn. Did you assume that I was asking that of Apple? is this what made you mad?
I never stated that I don't want Apple to fix my car's broken air conditioning. Did you jump to the conclusion that I wanted to force Apple to do it?
Such a list could go on forever, this is the reason why such lists aren't presented to you. Rather than that, people just present what they want and you can safely assume that other things are not demanded. We just want Apple's installation servers to sign iOS6 again.

All other claims are made up propaganda by people from your side, to make us look like unreasonable imbeciles who want Apple to drop support of iOS7 and shift their focus back on iOS6 - just because we don't like the new icons.

Just because you don't agree with my sentiments doesn't make them any more right or wrong than yours. Tell me if you lost all your data you wouldn't be screaming bloody murder? We already have one thread where the OP thinks Apple should apologize, as 6 was such a great feat and 7 is awful. How about the thread about the messages eating up excess space. That was a bug in 6 that people are still haunted by (one poster had 15 GB eaten by that bug). Face it. All the releases had issues and this is really no worse than the others.

I've been using iOS since version 3 (and Windows since version 98), never have I seen such a bad update. What makes iOS7 so special is that it wasn't released on it's own terms, it had to be pushed out in October because Apple needs to release a new iPhone each year to keep their business running. They insist to ship it with a new major release of iOS, the actual maturity of iOS7 was no deciding factor.

 

[aphexacid]

I would PAY to go back to ios 6.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I think it's ridiculous that people can't downgrade back. What if your phone simply can't handle the new ios? If I had an iphone 4 and I didn't like the way my phone handled it, I'd be really mad that apple doesn't allow me to switch back.

They'll never let you downgrade because it'd allow a lot of people switch back to a jailbreak-able OS version.

IMHO, the best is to move on to Android or (non-RT) Windows 8. Now, their hardware is equally good and, in cases (Wacom pen support, HDMI output etc), even superior. Their OS is FAAAAAR better, apps aside, than iOS. And no silly lockdowns.

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How is an OPTION to downgrade going to hurt?

It'd allow for easy re-jailbreaking. This is what Apple don't want.

 

[C DM]

They'll never let you downgrade because it'd allow a lot of people switch back to a jailbreak-able OS version.

IMHO, the best is to move on to Android or (non-RT) Windows 8. Now, their hardware is equally good and, in cases (Wacom pen support, HDMI output etc), even superior. Their OS is FAAAAAR better, apps aside, than iOS. And no silly lockdowns.

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It'd allow for easy re-jailbreaking. This is what Apple don't want.

That might be some justification for Apple not to do it, but there's no downside in having that option from the consumer side of things. We are consumers here and are discussing what would be good for us. It doesn't really matter if it might somehow not be the best thing for the company, since it doesn't make it better for us. Companies have to do a lot if things where they spend more money on things they would rather not, but they still do them because they realize it's still worth it for their customers and they care about their customers, or even because there might be some regulations in place simply forcing them to do it, which also happens a lot.

There might be some reasons for Apple not to want this, but that really doesn't mean much for us, the consumers.