Siri Protocol Cracked, But Unique iPhone 4S ID Requirement Hampers Distribution

[NickFalk]

Again, during the outage, Siri could not analyse your voice into text at all.

But how do you know this for a fact? You only knows Siri was unable to process your request.

As earlier stated I have no knowledge of how Siri works but it makes sense to me that it does straightforward voice-recognition on the device and sends data to Apple’s server. Case: User asks: "Siri, will I need an umbrella tomorrow?"

Text: "WILL.I.NEED.UMBRELLA.TOMORROW"
Location: GPS-position
Time: Timestamp
Device-ID: UDID(?)

Obviously simplified but let's say information akin to the above is sent to Apple. Apple's server will chew through the string of word, check with the time-stamp and device-ID to see if this is part of an ongoing "conversation". Does it need to take location into account? Yes, no part of the string or earlier conversation seem to present alternative location-information. Check GPS-position and fetch forecast for the given area. Present information to user. Even if the task the user wants to perform is done locally the deciphering of the information needs to be done on the server.

My reason for thinking a model such as this makes a lot more sense is threefold: First the insane amount of data being sent back if Apple were to receive sound-samples rather than compressed data-sets. Second the added expense for the user covering all this traffic and thirdly the time-delay which would make Siri extremely slow to respond.

 

[KnightWRX]

But how do you know this for a fact? You only knows Siri was unable to process your request.

If you've used Siri, you know how it works.

First, you tell it something. Then it repeats what you've told it. Then it processes your requests.

When the outage occured, it didn't repeat what you said, it never turned your speech into text. That's what was failing. Not processing the actual request, but analysing the audio to transform it to text.

Hence, it couldn't perform local tasks (set reminders, dictate SMS messages and other things that don't require "looking up" on the servers).

That's how I know. The servers are used both for decoding the audio data (running Nuance's software technology) and doing searches (Wolfram Alpha is used for natural text based searching). If the task is a local task, the phone's hardware will get passed the task without having to go through a search database (setting reminders, dictating SMS and e-mails, looking up contacts).

Again, it works on the 3GS. It's been done, showed, etc... The power of the 4S is not required, nor will it be since the most advanced function Siri needs to perform, the actual decoding of audio into text, is doable right now.

 

[samcraig]

So these a$$holes will end up overloading Siri's servers with their illegal activities causing us legitimate users not to be able to access it when we need it or they will have Apple engineers so focused on protection, that they won't be able to spend much time on making Siri better. Either way this is a loss for Apple and it's dedicated customers. Why do these a$$holes waste time, money and resources on this stupidity?!

Hmmmm - this doesn't seem to bother people who hacked the iPhone to get tethering and soak up as much bandwidth from ATT. Seems like people were OK justifying "sticking it to ATT"

 

[DaveDaveDave]

lets see 512 mb or ram same as the 4 had, same scree, same phone design, what did i miss? ohhhh thats right SIRI!

You must be using Android's voice recognition to spew out this mess...

 

[Tiger8]

no they just want to force people to pay the apple tax for a mediocre upgrade...

No one forced anyone to do anything, the 4s is out, and so is the 4, and so is the 3Gs, and so is [insert phone name here]. You have no idea how much effort and time and money goes into building and perfecting software, let alone AI software. So yes, if Apple wants to keep Siri exclusive for higher end devices, purely to make profit on it, so be it.

 

[kiljoy616]

Wow. The iPhone 4 and the iPod Touch 4 definitely should have gotten Siri. Apple just wants money and thats why they are just having it for the iPhone 4S. The iPhone 4 and the iPod Touch 4G both have A4 which in my opinion is great for Siri.

Money, that is all its about.

 

[Mad-B-One]

iPhone has plastic though....

And lets talk about the design a little. Stainless steel. Last time I checked, stainless steel is stronger than cheapo plastics.

I have to say: Plastic where plastic belongs. If you look closely on you iPhone 4/4S, you will notice that half-a-millimeter thick "plastic bumper around the glass edges. So, before someone goes home crying, yes the iPhone has plastic on it, but you have to look really close to notice. That bumper saved my screen already. I somehow have the tradition to drop my new phones after having them for a week. I guess I have to get used to form factors... but my RIM was scratched up right after a week for that reason, my iPhone still looks spiffy.

 

[muncyweb]

I wouldn't want siri on my android phone, compared to my google voice apps it is hindered and not as sophisticated. Apple should just make siri open and allow devs to work with it. But then again apple wants to keep everything in a walled garden. *sigh* what a joke....

I happen to enjoy the walled garden. Keeps out most of the crap.

Apple's not going to put up with people trying to steal Siri for their own purposes. What ever happened to people coming up with their OWN solutions and selling them???

 

[andyriot]

Lol this thread is so full of self righteousness.

I personally couldn't care less about Siri, but I would like to say to all the folks who "paid for the right to use Siri" by purchasing a 4S -- Did you pay any more than the folks who purchased a 4? Were both the 4 and 4S not starting at $199 upon release? Just wondering where that extra Siri payment is, and if thats the case then would you still be bitter if Apple charged a small one time fee for all other iDevices to access Siri?

 

[576316]

More for Android to copy?

So, they're trying to route Siri for use on an Android device?! Apple will come down hard on this when they find out. **** will hit the fan.

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I'm sorry, but Android is the biggest piece of bollocks since...the last piece of bollocks. The whole platform was and is still being designed with stolen ideas from Apple that they weren't clever enough to develop themselves.

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I have to say: Plastic where plastic belongs. If you look closely on you iPhone 4/4S, you will notice that half-a-millimeter thick "plastic bumper around the glass edges. So, before someone goes home crying, yes the iPhone has plastic on it, but you have to look really close to notice. That bumper saved my screen already. I somehow have the tradition to drop my new phones after having them for a week. I guess I have to get used to form factors... but my RIM was scratched up right after a week for that reason, my iPhone still looks spiffy.

Actually, I don't think the screen bevel is plastic. I dropped my previous iPhone 4 and it chipped. Plastic would have cracked. I think it's like a hard resin or something.

 

[wordsmith27]

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[/COLOR]I'm sorry, but Android is the biggest piece of bollocks since...the last piece of bollocks. The whole platform was and is still being designed with stolen ideas from Apple that they weren't clever enough to develop themselves.

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is that why apple stole android's notification dropdown and took from samsung's addon's to form their own? or how apple took the grid ui from phones that existed already rather than invent a new ui like android... I get it jobs says apple invented everything and u believe it fine but your spewing false info. apple is really good at marketing but they didn't invent everything hell even on mac that launchpad thing was swiped from ubuntu as were several things in osx but apple markets best so no one questions it...

fact is siri is not needed on android, android has its own solutions but i do know this if google developed a killer app for android they work so it could run on older phones or allow the rom cookers to develop a version for older phones and not have any problem with it. apple expects everyone to pay the apple tax plus extra so they can get paid that is fine but they are purposely giving users the shaft...

i just got a mac mini 2gb's of ram upgraded to lion started getting lockups and freezes apple wants 500 extra bucks for 8 gigs of ram... went on amazon 8gb's cost me 47 bucks now my mac mini runs smooth...apple makes great products but lets not pretend they are perfect and don't screw the user for extra money whereas other companies don't. no company is perfect and they all screw users in some way and they all take from someone elses idea to make it their own, apple included.

 

[Dr McKay]

no they just want to force people to pay the apple tax for a mediocre upgrade...

I hear people calling it this all the time, is it because its still in the same exterior as the 4S?

Even from a hardware perspective, this is the biggest upgrade the iPhone has ever seen, the processor has an extra 800Mhz, (Before, each bump has been 200Mhz). The camera has jumped up 3MP (The biggest before was 2MP)

I dont think you're basing your arguement solely on the unchanged RAM. Had the iPhone 4S launched with a different case design, many of the people who complain would have crapped their pants with giddy excitement as they clambered over people to get one first.

 

[andiwm2003]

I hear people calling it this all the time, is it because its still in the same exterior as the 4S?

Even from a hardware perspective, this is the biggest upgrade the iPhone has ever seen, the processor has an extra 800Mhz, (Before, each bump has been 200Mhz). The camera has jumped up 3MP (The biggest before was 2MP)

I dont think you're basing your arguement solely on the unchanged RAM. Had the iPhone 4S launched with a different case design, many of the people who complain would have crapped their pants with giddy excitement as they clambered over people to get one first.

+1

the upgrade was quite decent if you want the better camera. In the past I thought cameras in Phones don't matter much but now that the cameras give useful pictures I consider this the main reason if I get the upgrade to the 4S.

I personally don't game so the A5 is a waste for me but not for others.

Whats holding me back is the shoddy coverage of ATT and that fact that I don't like the design of the iPhone. But it goes into a case anyway.

What's missing and what I would have liked is a 4" screen in a case without bezel but that is years away. But that doesn't make this upgrade weak in itself.

But back to Siri: I can see it useful to have the ability to use Siri on all iOS devices and Macs as long as you can pretend to the Apple server that it's talking to your iPhone. But that might come anyway down the road as service from Apple for I guess a monthly fee.

 

[E4tH]

Lol this thread is so full of self righteousness.

I personally couldn't care less about Siri, but I would like to say to all the folks who "paid for the right to use Siri" by purchasing a 4S -- Did you pay any more than the folks who purchased a 4? Were both the 4 and 4S not starting at $199 upon release? Just wondering where that extra Siri payment is, and if thats the case then would you still be bitter if Apple charged a small one time fee for all other iDevices to access Siri?

We didn't actually pay for it but apple is getting paid more for it. Since apple still gets paid full retail for each phone even though we buy the phone subsidized, since the subsidized prices are due to the carriers covering the rest of the cost and in return have the customer sign a two year contract. Unsubsidized prices of the iPhone 4 were less then those of the iPhone 4s.

Also, I'm sure each product has its own business plan, goals and allocate the profits of each product differently, when apple released the iPhone 4 it didn't take into account Siri since apple can't see into the future and know they were gonna buy and provide Siri.

I also don't care if iPhone 4 users get Siri for free, I just find it annoying that some iPhone 4 users are acting like apple owes them something. When they bought the iPhone 4 knowing what features came with the phone. Apple didn't promised them additional features in the future.

 

[divinox]

There may be a reason why Siri can't access whatever unique identifier you are referring to. Besides, it has to be more then whatever unique identifier every phone has, or Apple couldn't limit access to just its customers.

And, there is also the possibility that Apple is limiting initial access, during the beta phase to just 4S customers, to prevent the service from being overwhelmed from the get-go. We sure wouldn't want another Mobile Me launch mess.

What looks "plain and simple" to you may not be quite so simple in actuality.

Any identity is accessible through software. As Apple controls the software of both Siri and iOS there is no such reason. And, i was - for obvious reasons - speaking of Apple specific identifiers.

As for your second paragraph, that may very well be the case. Granted, they could easily get more computational power in the world of computing as a service that we live in, but yes... that may very well be the case.

p.s.

I study IT for a living. Granted, i don't know everything, but i do know enough when it comes to things like that. Just saying.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

But how do you know this for a fact? You only knows Siri was unable to process your request.

Yes it has been figured out. The proof is in how much data is sent during a siri request.
The fact that it works out to be around 20kb per request is the proof. If it was just sending off a string it would be messured in bites and I would honestly be shocked if it crossed 1kb at all much less 20kb.

 

[divinox]

The developers should have given him the middle finger and forced a COURT OF LAW to rule on the validity of the GPL and App Store License.

You'll back them financially, i assume?

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I'm pretty sure Siri is going to be huge for Apple's next products.

I can just see integration with Cars, Home, Apple TV etc. Pretty sure that Siri will come to other apps in iOS 6 and could do other commands like: "Turn off Wifi" and fully navigate iPhone with voice. This is Apple's accessibility future as well. Someone who have hard time using iPhone with hands can simply talk the commands like "Go Home" "Open photo library" "next picture" "next" "send to John."

Voice is definitely going to be huge. Not only for Apple though, but for computing at large. Too bad Apple won't turn it into an industry asset. Would definitely speed things up from a consumer perspective.

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I personally don't think that the design of using steel and glass was meant to elicit durability as much as beautiful design. I think any intelligent person would realize that. I think that holding the iPhone evinces quality and gorgeous design.

I'm also not sure it would be fare to say that that the SGS2 is somehow more durable due to its plastic construction. I've held it and I'm not sure it would survive a drop onto concrete any more or less than the iPhone.

The post highlighted "durability" as a key perk of having stainless steel. Thus, durability of the iPhone4 is in every way a legitimate target for attack.

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Yeah Siri may work as you've descried in it's first iteration, but neither you nor I know how Siri REALLY works or how it will work in the future. Apple is still Beta testing it and new future enhancements may require the faster processing power. In the meantime, the last thing Apple needs is too many phones (or other illegal devices) accessing and overloading the servers while they're still trying to bring enhancements to the service. Your gripe is premature and baseless.

Doesn't change the fact that the current implementation runs perfectly fine on the iPhone 3GS. Granted, Apple may opt to shift computation towards the single device (even if it makes little sense), but the current implementation does not work like that, and thus, there is no (technical) reason why the current implementation could not be included on all iOS devices. You were wrong. Its ok. We all make mistakes.

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I don't think it's about blocking older devices so iPhone 4s can sell better. Its about the fact that apple bought Siri, they aren't a charity but a business and they need to make money off of Siri. They can't just give it away for free and apple doesn't really stand to profit from giving Siri to iPhone 4 users unless they were to charge them to get Siri.

If granting non 4S devices access to Siri has no impact on sales of 4S, and Apple have no other revenue stream than the 4S to "make money off of Siri" then you have no case. In short, you're arguing that on the one hand they have to make a profit out of Siri, and on the other, you are saying that giving everyone access to Siri would not change profits.

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Siri is beta. "iOS 5.x with Siri 1.0" is not unrealistic.

Except, this wouldn't be iOS 5.x with Siri 1.0. It would be iOS 5.x with Siri Beta. And, you are still causing trouble for all those people who don't update their devices to begin with.

 

[BaldiMac]

Doesn't change the fact that the current implementation runs perfectly fine on the iPhone 3GS. Granted, Apple may opt to shift computation towards the single device (even if it makes little sense), but the current implementation does not work like that, and thus, there is no (technical) reason why the current implementation could not be included on all iOS devices.

There is no (technical) reason that you are aware of.

 

[samcraig]

There is no (technical) reason that you are aware of.

Well given that there have been demos of Siri working on everything down to a 3GS - I think it's pretty safe to say that the issue (today) isn't technical.


Now we have no way of knowing what lies in Siri's future - and maybe that's what it wouldn't be technically feasible. But today - it works on all devices as it's been demo'd.

 

[divinox]

For what ? Everything is processed in the cloud. Siri can't do squat without access to the Internet. Local processing requiring a dual core processor would have made some kind of sense (or would it ? We've had Nuance dictation technology running on PCs much slower than the 4S, if not the 3GS and 4) but it's been disproven by the Siri outage of a few weeks ago (or was it last week ?).

Apple locked it to the 4S for some kind of reason. They could have made it part of iOS 5 as all iPhones have a unique identifier that could have been used for authentication and as has been shown, it runs fine off the iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS.

Chill man, this is a discussion, not a bar brawl. No need to get pumped up and frustrated because someone has a different opinion than yours on the Internet. I own a 4S and I too agree that a Camera and a dual core SoC would have left little for Apple to market the 4S as a big upgrade.

I personally don't care about Siri, it barely works in my experience and for what it does work, some of those tasks are faster accomplished by simply using the touch screen for input. I bought the 4S for the camera and the SoC.

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Then why couldn't Siri do local tasks like setting reminders that don't require "searching" when the outage happens ? Why couldn't it even do proper dictation ?

No, the outage showed us that the voice processing is done on Apple's server. Siri uploads anything and everything you tell it to Apple.

Privacy issue right there.

Theres another - crucial - element to that story. Look at the way voice-data have been mined in the past, for example by Google's 411 service and MSFT's WP7 (feeding into Kinect). By tapping the (audio) data, thus creating a vast collection of voice recordings (dialects, nuances etc.) Apple can rapidly enhance
its service (like Google, and MSFT before them).

Thus, while from a traffic perspective it may make sense to do early audio processing on the device (two lines of text means way less data than two lines of audio), there is a clear business incentive not to. And again, its really not Apple taking the blow here. It is the customer. Plus, by increasing data-consumption even further, they scratch the backs of service providers at the same time.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

There is no (technical) reason that you are aware of.

lets break it down.
There has been proof after proof that there is no technical reason.
It is a 100% Apple block. It has been funny watching the excuses get weaker and weaker to defend Apple from the Apple apologist squad.

It been shown minus the recording everything is done on Apples servers nothing is done on the phone. Phone records and sends recording to Apple's Siri Servers. The servers convert the audio to string, and runs the requested command and then returns the answer.

If by techical reason then it would be a 4S ID but hardware wise it is just Apple giving excuses for people to buy a 4S.

 

[divinox]

delete.

 

[ILikeTurtles]

This is quite the pissing contest if I've ever seen one.

You Android fanboys need to crawl back under your rocks. Yeah Google's answer to Siri is so freaking great. Sure. LMAO

"Siri, what do you think about Android?"

"#&% $^%@%#"

 

[divinox]

There is no (technical) reason that you are aware of.

No. There is - evidently - no (technical) reason. It runs. It has been proven. Time to pull that head of yours out of the sand.

 

[BaldiMac]

lets break it down.
There has been proof after proof that there is no technical reason.
It is a 100% Apple block. It has been funny watching the excuses get weaker and weaker to defend Apple from the Apple apologist squad.

It been shown minus the recording everything is done on Apples servers nothing is done on the phone. Phone records and sends recording to Apple's Siri Servers. The servers convert the audio to string, and runs the requested command and then returns the answer.

If by techical reason then it would be a 4S ID but hardware wise it is just Apple giving excuses for people to buy a 4S.

Well given that there have been demos of Siri working on everything down to a 3GS - I think it's pretty safe to say that the issue (today) isn't technical.

No. There is - evidently - no (technical) reason. It runs. It has been proven.

Sure, it runs locally. But as has been pointed out multiple times, a significant part of Siri runs on Apple's servers. You have no idea about Apple's backend capabilities are at this point.