So are all MBP owners with the 8600m GT cards screwed?

[itistoday]

Wait, this is news to me... I have a 2.2 Ghz MBP with a GeForce 8600M GT and 128 MB of VRAM... Does that mean I'm screwed...? I've had this machine for over a year now and it's running just fine, but I don't game very much.

Sorry if this has been posted already (I just saw this thread, and it's HUGE!), but is there a way to tell if you're at risk?

 

[panzer06]

Wait, this is news to me... I have a 2.2 Ghz MBP with a GeForce 8600M GT and 128 MB of VRAM... Does that mean I'm screwed...? I've had this machine for over a year now and it's running just fine, but I don't game very much.

Sorry if this has been posted already (I just saw this thread, and it's HUGE!), but is there a way to tell if you're at risk?

No way to tell. My wife has a 2.2 SR as well. She only uses Office, Firefox and VMWare Fusion for XP. I used it for games frequently and experienced no problems. I have been vocal about this issue forcing people to buy Applecare. Silly to buy something that costs nearly $2000 (and more for the higher-end versions) where it was only assured to work for 12 months and the only response is: better buy Applecare. Sorta like a $350 nVidia tax.

I grudgingly bought it on the day our one year warranty expired. With Dell and HP acknowledging the issue and issuing patches that spin the fans up all the time, Apple should at least make some comment.

Sa far nothing. Some people have resorted to selling their units while the resale is still good. The problem happens enough that it's an issue but not so frequently as to be common knowledge in general. It does not happen to every system.

I bought a used 2.16 with ATI x1600 and use it for RTS games.

Cheers,

 

[ChronoIMG]

Wait, this is news to me... I have a 2.2 Ghz MBP with a GeForce 8600M GT and 128 MB of VRAM... Does that mean I'm screwed...? I've had this machine for over a year now and it's running just fine, but I don't game very much.

Sorry if this has been posted already (I just saw this thread, and it's HUGE!), but is there a way to tell if you're at risk?

I have the same configuration and mine died at 11 months. I took the machine into an Apple Store to have the MB replaced and bought AppleCare on my way out.

I'd guess that any MBP with this video card is going to fail, including my replacement. It's only a matter of time.

I use my about 90% of the time with the lid closed attached to an external monitor. I also play quite a few GPU intensive games. I fully expect my MBP to fail again.

 

[itistoday]

Thanks panzer06 and ChronoIMG, I think that this is one of those situations where a poll of some kind would be useful (I wonder where you could do that... ) to see what the failure rate is. I mean, if it's only 2% or something like that then I'd gamble to not worry about it.

I use my about 90% of the time with the lid closed attached to an external monitor.

Same here! Maybe that'll extend it's life though.. *prays*

 

[mackmgg]

well now that its enevitable...

any forms of euthanasia to make it go b4 my warrenty?

 

[Beau10]

Thanks panzer06 and ChronoIMG, I think that this is one of those situations where a poll of some kind would be useful (I wonder where you could do that... ) to see what the failure rate is. I mean, if it's only 2% or something like that then I'd gamble to not worry about it.

Same here! Maybe that'll extend it's life though.. *prays*

There was a poll here. Don't recall the number of respondents but it wasn't too far from 100. The last I looked at it was about 20%. Now granted, the poll is going to be skewed due to the attention those who've had this issue throw at it. There's been many cases noted on this forum.

 

[nos]

Did they charge you anything for your repair?

Nope, nothing.

The shop wanted to do it for half the price, that's when I called Apple.

 

[panzer06]

Mine failed to display anything on screen (internal and external) after updating to 10.5.5.
I could start it up though and ssh it.
I called AppleCare, they promised to look into it and call me back after the weekend. They called on monday, gave me a casenumber and covered for the cost of repair.
The unit was out of warranty though.

Today I got it back and it seems to work fine again.

In the shop they told me the logic board was exchanged, and as a matter a fact profiler shows no longer my serial number, but this: "Serial Number System Sal#".
I wonder if it's normal that it shows that?

Happens sometimes when logic board is replaced. When this happened to our students, we just told them to ignore it because Apple would still work on their Mac regardless but it really annoyed many of them.

Don't know if the bench tech is supposed to correct it before it goes back to you or if that's just normal.

Cheers,

 

[MowingDevil]

The user believes that since its somewhat of an known issue among the community that the company providing the parts should be responsible. While in theory that is true and I completely agree on that statement, it doesn't always happen.

To me, this is not the first similar issue with defective parts, known to the company, yet not covered in standard warranty.

Just for one of my past experiences, our family had a 2001 Mazda Tribute, one of the first that came out. Bought the car brand new, showroom model too. Just 2 years ago, the transmission gave out. Looked online, had TONS of complaints from drivers about this model's transmission. Even listed it on the TSB yet the Ford/Mazda dealers denied the fact there was anything wrong. Went to a transmission repair shop, they even said the design was flawed and had massive problems with it. Yet Ford/Mazda still used it and said there was nothing wrong.

We weren't the only ones effected. A family friend who drives the same vehicle had his transmission go out 4 times already before hitting 100,000 miles. Luckily for him after his warranty ended, he went to a local transmission shop and received a lifetime replacement guarantee on his new transmissions. The shop is extremely pissed off since they replaced 3 of the 4 transmissions already, and 2 of them were completely free. (It costs 2000+ per repair, so thats 4k down the hole for the shop and it takes 10 hours for the work.)

If the company doesn't wish to cover or even acknowledge the fault, you can complain, and maybe if enough people complain, they might do something about it. Otherwise, you're out of luck.

I'm not saying give up on complaining and just wait for your ticking time bomb to go off. Complain, get some noise out there but don't completely rely on the fact that you want something to be done that something will be done. Who knows, us MBP users might get lucky and actually do get Apple to do something about it. Until then, you're not gonna be able to do much except keep complaining and hope.

I've read these boards, read the articles online, spoken w/ authorized Apple retailers, spoken w/ salesmen at Apple stores, spoken w/ Apple people on the phone, talked w/ "geniuses" ....and you know what, I get the distinct feeling (when I tie it all together) that you are EXACTLY right in terms of what is going on here. There's some kind of collusion going on between nVidia & Apple (and a host of others) on this...something that Dell & HP broke when they brought out their bandaid "patch." Deny, deny, deny...get through the warranty and hope it just goes away. That ultimately must seem cheaper than doing a recall. I wouldn't think this at all if Apple would just come out & address it officially but the fact they haven't makes me suspicious. nVidia lied to Wallstreet about it and got their asses kicked in the market. Even they won't admit there's a problem aside from an isolated little batch.

I'm not even convinced that they're all defective but I'd certainly like to hear these concerns addressed one way or another. There could be a class action lawsuit sooner or later if this keeps up once warranties begin running out and people are faced with $1-1500 bills.

 

[MowingDevil]

well now that its enevitable...

any forms of euthanasia to make it go b4 my warrenty?

That would be fraud but lets not start that again.

 

[MowingDevil]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoIMG
I use my about 90% of the time with the lid closed attached to an external monitor.

Same here! Maybe that'll extend it's life though.. *prays*

Nope. This has nothing to do w/ the monitor, its the GPU and its either powering the built in monitor or an external. Same thing. From what I can gather, the problem comes from cycling...running your machine extremely hot & then slamming it into sleep w/o cooling down....and doing this several times over.

One thing that does seem to work well is leaving your machine on 24/7 if possible.

 

[nuncupatory]

I was doing a Google search with Nvidia + GPU + Inquirer to see if anything new popped up, when I noticed something interesting on the sponsored links section of the results (I usually ignore these, so I'm not sure why this even caught my eye):

http://www.girardgibbs.com/NVIDIAGeForce.asp

Looks like at least one litigation firm is looking into the possibility of a class-action lawsuit for affected consumers (as opposed to Nvidia shareholders, who've already got their own little thing going). If this actually picks up steam, I imagine there's going to be a mass culling of related threads from the official Apple MBP forum.

 

[MowingDevil]

I was doing a Google search with Nvidia + GPU + Inquirer to see if anything new popped up, when I noticed something interesting on the sponsored links section of the results (I usually ignore these, so I'm not sure why this even caught my eye):

http://www.girardgibbs.com/NVIDIAGeForce.asp

Looks like at least one litigation firm is looking into the possibility of a class-action lawsuit for affected consumers (as opposed to Nvidia shareholders, who've already got their own little thing going). If this actually picks up steam, I imagine there's going to be a mass culling of related threads from the official Apple MBP forum.

Here we go...

 

[nuncupatory]

I find this whole topic oddly fascinating. Though I probably won't be so amused if the GPU in my MBP actually fails.

Anyway, spotted a recent interview with the Nvidia CEO. While still stating that the GPU issue is limited to certain laptop models, he actually uttered the word 'recall' (*gasp*). No, he's not promising a recall of any particular model, but...

Q: Can you comment on the recent problems found in Nvidia's notebook chips?

A: The issue involved many potential causes including heat dissipation and chip design. All the causes are currently under investigation. It's important to note that the issue has only surfaced in just a few specific notebook models.

Nvidia never considered trying to shirk responsibility and we immediately started to solve the problem with a conscientious attitude. The most important thing we need to do is to find out where the problem is and prevent the issue from happening again.

Nvidia is a responsible company and we are willing to spend US$200 to solve a problem caused in a GPU worth US$20. Currently, we are negotiating with partners to recall products and hope to give consumers a satisfactory resolution.

That was the only relevant bit, but if you want to read the rest of the article, here you go:
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080905PD206.html

 

[johngordon]

I'm just intrigued as to exactly what the problem was, and whether or not it was simply down to hardware, or is in some way fixable via a software update.

I had the symptoms, getting progressively worse, but 10.5.5 seems to have completely cured it.

So having been pretty sure that everything pointed to the nVidia chip, suddenly it appears fixed...

...but I don't know if its truly fixed, or if its just some fix that is only really a bandaid that limits the symptons, and may effect performance, leaving the chip still with a higher than might be reasonably expected to chance of failing prematurely?

 

[fs454]

MINE JUST DIED THIS MORNING.

Opened it up to no display, troubleshooted like crazy. No output from DVI either. I networked it and shared the screen, and looked at system profiler.


It claims it has an Intel GMA X3100 now, and there's no trace of it having an 8600m GT anymore.

I'm not under warranty and its about a year and a quarter old.

Am I screwed? I certainly shouldn't be. These things are meant to last. They can't just ignore this.

Should I go to a store and fighit it?

 

[ayeying]

MINE JUST DIED THIS MORNING.

Opened it up to no display, troubleshooted like crazy. No output from DVI either. I networked it and shared the screen, and looked at system profiler.


It claims it has an Intel GMA X3100 now, and there's no trace of it having an 8600m GT anymore.

I'm not under warranty and its about a year and a quarter old.

Am I screwed? I certainly shouldn't be. These things are meant to last. They can't just ignore this.

Should I go to a store and fighit it?

First off, if a video card dies, why would it claim as another video card?

 

[akm3]

MINE JUST DIED THIS MORNING.

Opened it up to no display, troubleshooted like crazy. No output from DVI either. I networked it and shared the screen, and looked at system profiler.


It claims it has an Intel GMA X3100 now, and there's no trace of it having an 8600m GT anymore.

I'm not under warranty and its about a year and a quarter old.

Am I screwed? I certainly shouldn't be. These things are meant to last. They can't just ignore this.

Should I go to a store and fighit it?

I think anyone who has an affected machine should have bought Applecare the instant this was announced.

Yes you should try to fight it but I doubt you'll get far.

 

[itistoday]

Yes you should try to fight it but I doubt you'll get far.

Why wouldn't he get far? I would flip out at the genius or whoever it was if they told me they wouldn't (and I've never done that and usually don't like other "angry customers", but this is different ). Apple is selling computers with a known manufacturing defect that renders them useless, and this defect was only recently discovered, past many people's default 90 day warranties. Of course they should replace it, it's almost criminal not to!

 

[brad.c]

It really depends on the service personnel, I think. If you politely but firmly state your case, you may get farther than you think. Also, check Daveway's post above.

I think anyone who has an affected machine should have bought Applecare the instant this was announced.

Yes you should try to fight it but I doubt you'll get far.

Perhaps a more constructive tone would be more appropriate here. There are many reason's to get AppleCare, and I'm the first to suggest it to my circle of mac friends. This isn't necessarily one of them. I would expect more than a fighting chance of a machine lasting five years without a devastating malfunction, let alone 15 months. Any component that is likely to render your mac financially dead within that time should be covered out of warranty.

 

[fs454]

Got an appointment for 4pm today at the Apple Store.

What should I bring? Should I print this thread out as well as the Dell recall and my screenshot of the X3100 system profiler?

 

[itistoday]

Got an appointment for 4pm today at the Apple Store.

Good luck! Let us know how it went!

What should I bring? Should I print this thread out as well as the Dell recall and my screenshot of the X3100 system profiler?

I would also search this thread for all news articles and bring printouts of them. Just about every time something like this has happened in the past (as far as I can remember) Apple has offered to replace them, as well they should as it's a manufacturing defect.

 

[fs454]

GOOD NEWS!


Apple pulled through! I went to the Apple Store in the Burlington Mall in Burlington, MA, and in my repair note I had linked to this topic as well as explained my problem. I walked in and sat down at the genius bar and said, "Now, I'm probably gonna be one of those really difficult customers." and he said "Yeah, I read your note."

I explained my problem, whipped out my 100+ pages of forum posts, Nvidia press releases, and Dell warranry extensions, laid them all out, and he looked at me and told me to hold on a minute. He left, took my Macbook Pro with him, checked the serial, verified that it was out of warranty, etc etc etc.

I sat with my heart pounding for about 35 minutes, playing Line Rider on my iPhone.


I get asked what my OS is and login/password for the computer, and then another small wait, he goes into the back room and comes back out shortly later.

"Alright, we're going to cover you. We've got the logic board in stock so it'll be ready tomorrow, sunday at the latest. We'll give you a call as soon as its done!


I thanked him so much and told him of the many horror stories I've heard about this. Then I was off, happy as ever.

I asked him, though, if this fails again, can I get it replaced, and he said I had only 90 days.

I'm getting an identical logic board with the 8600 that I presume is not devoid of the problem, so I feel like it'll fail. I REALLY want to sell it, knowing this.

Any advice on that part?


ALSO! My MBP is has some heavy "wear and tear" from some dents, scratches, etc that they could have easily screwed me on, but he didn't seem to care at all.

 

[kolax]

That's good news that they covered it.

I really wish Apple would release a PR statement regarding their stance on the GPU issue, and what options users have who are out of warranty and have become victim of this.

 

[Denarius]

I find this whole topic oddly fascinating. Though I probably won't be so amused if the GPU in my MBP actually fails.

Anyway, spotted a recent interview with the Nvidia CEO. While still stating that the GPU issue is limited to certain laptop models, he actually uttered the word 'recall' (*gasp*). No, he's not promising a recall of any particular model, but...

Q: Can you comment on the recent problems found in Nvidia's notebook chips?

A: The issue involved many potential causes including heat dissipation and chip design. All the causes are currently under investigation. It's important to note that the issue has only surfaced in just a few specific notebook models.

Nvidia never considered trying to shirk responsibility and we immediately started to solve the problem with a conscientious attitude. The most important thing we need to do is to find out where the problem is and prevent the issue from happening again.

Nvidia is a responsible company and we are willing to spend US$200 to solve a problem caused in a GPU worth US$20. Currently, we are negotiating with partners to recall products and hope to give consumers a satisfactory resolution.

That was the only relevant bit, but if you want to read the rest of the article, here you go:
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080905PD206.html

That sounds very promising if the MBP proves to be one of the models where the 8600 has an issue. I'm still not convinced that the MBP is one of those models though.

The GPU's soldered on to the motherboard isn't it? Cor, and Apple don't do 2.2GHz processors any more.... might get a processor upgrade!