Ok fair enough. But that goes both ways. He chooses to care. You choose not to care. He has a right to express his opinion. You have your right to express your opinion. Stop worrying about what he thinks and what he posts
Where is the fun in that
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So how do you justify to your self stealing?
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Where is the fun in that
For me, tethering isn't stealing. I know for iPhones they want to charge you, but for a device like my Nexus One, its built it. (I actually don't tether very much, not out of moral reason, I just don't find the need. My University has Wi-Fi in most places.)
Also the fact I'd have to give up my unlimited data plan to pay them to tether from my iPhone turns me off even more.
Also the argument that "I'm paying for the data, I should be able to use it as I please" is convincing to me as well.
Also the fact I'd have to give up my unlimited data plan to pay them to tether from my iPhone turns me off even more.
Also the argument that "I'm paying for the data, I should be able to use it as I please" is convincing to me as well.
Or, an even better analogy: Your cable company charging a DVR service charge if you use your own DVR. Many do this if you rent a DVR from them, but I don't think they can if you use your HTPC or a TiVo you purchased as your DVR.
Wait, you have to pay extra money for that in the US? In Sweden it's free, you have your data that you pay for and you can either use it on your phone or use it with your computer through bluetooth or USB. You can even take out your SIM-card and place it in a 3G-modem.
And iPhones are only for ATT? What's up with that? If you have no alternative jailbreak!
And iPhones are only for ATT? What's up with that? If you have no alternative jailbreak!
So many people seem to be justifying their theft because they don't understand how a business runs.
AT&T as a company has teams of financial planners and business analyists. These people have to figure out ways for companies to stay afloat and balanced and functioning. There are business decisions made (company by company, not as a market trend) of what the pricing for their product is based on all types of market research data and they have it all planned out based on how much income and projected income they need to stay in business both in the short and long term and those prices are factored in. (even yall's thievery is factored in) and all the prices are set.
The prices for certain projected data usage patterns have been set like they are based on their ability to survive and control demand for a limited asset through tiered plans.
Just because you know where the data comes from doesn't mean you can say: "I'll do what I damn please with my data that I'm paying xx.xx for!
Well that's not the price it costs!
That's like going to mcdonalds and buying one drink cup for your whole family and refilling it over and over saying, I paid 1$ for my drink cup I'm gonna use it however I want!
You know you're stealing and your trying to justify it by saying it's not a good price but you have to remember Phone companies have gigantic bills and almost non existent profit margins because most are in the negative red every financial year.
So they count on that projected money-to-data-ratio that they have calculated to be necessary for their business model (which is their decision) and they have set the prices as such.
Go ahead and steal, but don't lie and justify and act like you're not an immoral thief with the integrity of a dirtbag.
AT&T as a company has teams of financial planners and business analyists. These people have to figure out ways for companies to stay afloat and balanced and functioning. There are business decisions made (company by company, not as a market trend) of what the pricing for their product is based on all types of market research data and they have it all planned out based on how much income and projected income they need to stay in business both in the short and long term and those prices are factored in. (even yall's thievery is factored in) and all the prices are set.
The prices for certain projected data usage patterns have been set like they are based on their ability to survive and control demand for a limited asset through tiered plans.
Just because you know where the data comes from doesn't mean you can say: "I'll do what I damn please with my data that I'm paying xx.xx for!
Well that's not the price it costs!
That's like going to mcdonalds and buying one drink cup for your whole family and refilling it over and over saying, I paid 1$ for my drink cup I'm gonna use it however I want!
You know you're stealing and your trying to justify it by saying it's not a good price but you have to remember Phone companies have gigantic bills and almost non existent profit margins because most are in the negative red every financial year.
So they count on that projected money-to-data-ratio that they have calculated to be necessary for their business model (which is their decision) and they have set the prices as such.
Go ahead and steal, but don't lie and justify and act like you're not an immoral thief with the integrity of a dirtbag.
Close, but not quite.
If you pay for basic cable, but you use some sort of hack to get all the premium channels for free, thats stealing.
"But it doesn't cost the cable company any extra to deliver me 500 channels versus just 100!" Sure it does, they pay royalties for content. By not paying royalties on stolen content, you deprive the content owners of potential revenue. I say potential, as thieves can't really be considered a revenue source based on the fact that they are, well, thieves.
And it also costs the cable company AND AT&T extra money to give you that bandwidth you are drinking for free. Networking costs, infrastructure loads, etc. Bandwidth isn't an auto-renewing resource. Its based on sticking boxes and cables and towers and people and all sorts of infrastructure together. You use more than you are paying for, everyone else who is paying for it suddenly is faced with network slowdowns because AT&T based their commitments to their paid subscriber base based on just that...their paid subscriber base. So they turn around and start doing things to that paid subscriber base to compensate for the overage....things like, oh call me crazy here, but LIKE REMOVING UNLIMITED DATA PLANS FOR FUTURE SUBSCRIBERS because they suddenly realize that pay-by-the-MB is the better way to maintain their profit margins. That is because of people like YOU. Thanks for that, we all appreciate your helpfulness on f00king over new subscribers.
Tethering is the same thing. Tethering is a premium service. Premium = pay extra for it. You get it for free and guess how long before Tethering plans get reduced even further or become pay-per-use altogether?
You get tethering for free, you are a thief. Justify it/rationalize it all you want, but objectively, you are a thief.
And this whole self-delusional BS about "tethering is in my phone, ergo it should always be free?" C'mon....if you really go down that path, why not just buy bootleg SIM cards and steal ALL of your telephony usage? Its totally possible, criminals do it all the time.
The only reason you likely arent? Because it takes WORK and some RISK to do that, and you've neither the brains nor the balls to do it. Jailbreaking and MiWi take neither, its easier and a fairly risk-free way to feel like you are stickin' it to da man. In your passive-aggressive world, thats the closest to rebellion you are likely to get.
Carry on cool thieves. Carry on.
when i pay that $30/mo for unlimited data, i should be able to use it how i like. it's not stealing since i'm paying for the data.
Technically if courts were to rule, we might all be guilty. So what. Let AT&T do what they may.
Is tethering for free unethical? Maybe. But we're hardly in a position to pass judgement on each other. Let those who are without sin cast the first stone, right?
I like that we're having an actual ethical discussion here, but to be honest there are bigger problems to worry about in most of our lives. Just because Lamarak pays for tethering doesn't give him the right to lecture us about it.
Is tethering for free unethical? Maybe. But we're hardly in a position to pass judgement on each other. Let those who are without sin cast the first stone, right?
I like that we're having an actual ethical discussion here, but to be honest there are bigger problems to worry about in most of our lives. Just because Lamarak pays for tethering doesn't give him the right to lecture us about it.
Unlimited data through a phone, not a computer.
Tethering is a premium that has an additional cost.
Is it right for Verizon to lock down the GPS and bluetooth stacks on its devices only to charge customers to enable those things that are already on their phone? Verizon did this for years and many people fought back by finding ways around Verizon's artificial limitations.
If I'm paying for a service - i.e., unlimited data - and my phone also has the tethering software built-in, why do I have to pay an additional fee to AT&T to be able to unlock a feature that's already built-in to the phone? It's nothing more than an artificial lock-down. My iPhone already uses data and I'm already paying for my unlimited data plan.
If you think you are stealing, then please just open up your bank account and let the major corporations in. Companies will charge you for going to the bathroom if they could, and it's up to consumers to say no to things they feel are not fair. Stealing is illegal. Using tethering via jailbreak is not illegal.
Sure it does. Paid subscribers for Tethering or otherwise not attempting to circumvent the current TOS of AT&T are the only ones who have a VALID and RELEVANT opinion on the matter. Anyone who isn't paying for it has already said "FU, I'm doin' it." Their opinions don't matter as they aren't paying for it and therefore are irrelevant to the entire discussion.
To judge somethings means you have to uphold the basis upon which you place your judgment. And if you are gonna quote it accurately: "Judge not that ye be not judged; For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." It goes on to say, if you value such words/philosophy (which you likely don't or you wouldn't be misquoting it) that it is important to not be a hypocrite...if you are going to judge someone, first ensure that you are not guilty OF THE SAME THING.
Clearly, the only people in this thread with valid opinions on the matter are those who are judging from a position of subjection to the rules in place. Live outside the law, and your opinion is only valid to yourself...not to society. You cease to be relevant to society when you choose to live outside societal bounds. Unless you are truly a revolutionary and attempting to change AT&T policy through overt actions. And I seriously doubt that to be true....you are just stealing because its easy and you can, not as a revolutionary statement.
At the same time you cant judge thieves because that would be judging, and I'm not.
Heck, its only human nature to get what you can get, and in a lot of situations dealing with software, it is a logistical impossibility to control the thieving mechanism because of the replicable and editable nature of virtual systems of information.
Usually in reality there are logistical mechanisms keeping us in check such as the government or the fear of physical penalties in the bodily realm. But in a virtual realm it is more casual and there is nothing controlling people without integrity who are smart enough to sense that they cannot be controlled in any logistical sense.
Any loss prevention professional will tell you that thievery is almost 100% opportunistic. Dont give people an opportunity to steal and they wont. But in the software world you cant control it so they have an opportunity and they take it like any logical human unit.
So I am not judging you for being a thief, I am just arguing that you are one; --just to set the record straight because a lot of you have developed a denial/justification.
Please admit it.
Heck, its only human nature to get what you can get, and in a lot of situations dealing with software, it is a logistical impossibility to control the thieving mechanism because of the replicable and editable nature of virtual systems of information.
Usually in reality there are logistical mechanisms keeping us in check such as the government or the fear of physical penalties in the bodily realm. But in a virtual realm it is more casual and there is nothing controlling people without integrity who are smart enough to sense that they cannot be controlled in any logistical sense.
Any loss prevention professional will tell you that thievery is almost 100% opportunistic. Dont give people an opportunity to steal and they wont. But in the software world you cant control it so they have an opportunity and they take it like any logical human unit.
So I am not judging you for being a thief, I am just arguing that you are one; --just to set the record straight because a lot of you have developed a denial/justification.
Please admit it.
Lamarack...It is quite simple...AT@T is stealing from me, so why do I state this and how do I justify it???
Simple: I pay $25 per month to use up to 2gb of "DATA" on my iPhone. If I exceed 2gb of data, then I am charged another $25 for another 2gb of data. If I add tethering IAW AT&T service contracts, I pay another $20 and do not recieve any additonal data, no faster speeds, no seperate services or benefits. I now have to pay them $45 for the EXACT same SERVICE and amount of DATA.
I am NOT stealing from AT&T, they are stealing from me if I give them the extra $20 for NO ADDITIONAL anything.
I have NEVER exceeded my monthly 2gb of data, I only tether an average of ONCE per month and am on less then 30 minutes. So if I have NEVER, EVER exceeded 2gb of data and even if I did, I would be required to pay another $25 which is $5 more then if I had paid the $20 in the first place.
Even with an unlimited plan as some posters have stated, they are paying $30 a month for unlimited data and if you read the service agreement, that equates to about 5gb of data per month, then they are also already paying for a service that does not INCREASE or CHANGE by adding the $20 tethering plan. If they exceed the 5gb term usage amount then yes, they should pay the $20 tethering fee as they are definitely heavy users and use more band width then someone like me.
I am not a thief and despise those that pirate apps, music, and videos. I PAY for what I use and will not overpay for something that I do not receive. If you can not understand and accept this, then you should never have started this thread because no matter what or how anyone states or justifies their reasons and beliefs, then you are still going to hold judgment against them. I answered your question and feel very comfortable and satisfied with my position, and decisions...morally, ethically, and legally!
Simple: I pay $25 per month to use up to 2gb of "DATA" on my iPhone. If I exceed 2gb of data, then I am charged another $25 for another 2gb of data. If I add tethering IAW AT&T service contracts, I pay another $20 and do not recieve any additonal data, no faster speeds, no seperate services or benefits. I now have to pay them $45 for the EXACT same SERVICE and amount of DATA.
I am NOT stealing from AT&T, they are stealing from me if I give them the extra $20 for NO ADDITIONAL anything.
I have NEVER exceeded my monthly 2gb of data, I only tether an average of ONCE per month and am on less then 30 minutes. So if I have NEVER, EVER exceeded 2gb of data and even if I did, I would be required to pay another $25 which is $5 more then if I had paid the $20 in the first place.
Even with an unlimited plan as some posters have stated, they are paying $30 a month for unlimited data and if you read the service agreement, that equates to about 5gb of data per month, then they are also already paying for a service that does not INCREASE or CHANGE by adding the $20 tethering plan. If they exceed the 5gb term usage amount then yes, they should pay the $20 tethering fee as they are definitely heavy users and use more band width then someone like me.
I am not a thief and despise those that pirate apps, music, and videos. I PAY for what I use and will not overpay for something that I do not receive. If you can not understand and accept this, then you should never have started this thread because no matter what or how anyone states or justifies their reasons and beliefs, then you are still going to hold judgment against them. I answered your question and feel very comfortable and satisfied with my position, and decisions...morally, ethically, and legally!
Yeah uhh.. No. iOS devices use the same amount of bandwidth as a laptop, obviously with the same amount of usage.
I wonder if people thought you were a their for owning Mac. Hahahaha
Bobby - I want you to tell everyone how often you and I agree. Or that we haven't had our moments of complete hostility.
Because that will further illustrate how valid your point is because I agree with you 100 percent.
I would have more respect for people if they just said "I'm stealing." rather than try to shift the blame or responsibility.
Your McDonald's scenario is good. I'd add that just because McDonalds offers free refills (if they do) doesn't mean you can buy one drink and provide beverages for all your friends. CAN you? Sure. But that doesn't mean you aren't stealing.
That's why I gave my all you can eat buffet analogy. It's all you can eat under the restaurants conditions - which means - IN their place of business. That doesn't entitle you to all you can grab in a baggie and take it with you.
Tethering is like that. You are paying for unlimited data under certain T&Cs. Just because you can use all the data you want on your iPhone doesn't mean you can use all the data you want on every device you can hook up to it.
You signed a contract. Period.
I don't justify it for myself. I know it's wrong on some level, but I really don't give a ****.
Don't you have something better to do than judge what other people do?
With that said, I think I'll continue to tether for free. Thanks.
Don't you have something better to do than judge what other people do?
With that said, I think I'll continue to tether for free. Thanks.
How about 3. I paid for the unlimited service, how in the hell can they charge me for having access to it? It'd be like a bank charging you to use your own account!
I've never tethered before but thanks to the OP, I think I will download the app and start using it.
You guys are making very valid points. I am jailbroken, and don't tether, just because I don't really need it. But if it didn't mean that I lost my unlimited data, I would gladly pay for it, even if I had to pay for all my devices and it cost me another 60 a month. Stealing seems like a big accusation on this one to me. It most certainly is against the contract we signed with AT&T, but they also refuse to negotiate. If they played fair, and allowed those of us who have been loyal to them and our iPhones to keep our unlimited data and pay for tethering I'm sure most people would just pay it. Even though the rest of the world gets theirs free, this is America & we have too many users to allow it free, I get it. But AT&T doesn't need to please us. We are all held captive unless we unlock the phone, & even then you can only go to tmobile. I would feel better if they just used a gun to steal all my $$$$. My 2 iPhones & my iPad cost me almost $250 a month... & I'm sure many of us have similar bills with them. When is enough enough. I'm happy to pay for something I love, but there has gotta be an end somewhere...
The topic of this thread is misleading. Tethering using a non-official tethering option isn't stealing. It's a violation of your contract with AT&T. You're not going to go to jail for doing this.
IF, and that's a big IF, AT&T decides to do something to those that tether without having the proper tethering plan, the worst that will happen is that AT&T will disconnect your phone's service, charge you the early termination fee (you did violate the contract after all) plus what will likely be the cost per Kb of data you used outside of the scope of what's explicitly allowed under contract.
They don't do this because it is poor PR. The amount of this being done as long as it's not easily accomplished is very minimal and simply not worth the hassle and PR fallout. The addition of the tethering option also eliminated the 'I have to jailbreak to do this because AT&T simply doesn't have the option' crowd.
IF, and that's a big IF, AT&T decides to do something to those that tether without having the proper tethering plan, the worst that will happen is that AT&T will disconnect your phone's service, charge you the early termination fee (you did violate the contract after all) plus what will likely be the cost per Kb of data you used outside of the scope of what's explicitly allowed under contract.
They don't do this because it is poor PR. The amount of this being done as long as it's not easily accomplished is very minimal and simply not worth the hassle and PR fallout. The addition of the tethering option also eliminated the 'I have to jailbreak to do this because AT&T simply doesn't have the option' crowd.
Mine doesn't. In fact, I get paid for them getting to use my money (interest). I meant using the account at like an ATM. Same service, just another way of accessing it.
Banks charging atm access for other banks is a whole different thing.
So what you're saying is that it's your money. So if you want to access it - you should be able to at no charge. And that it's ok for other banks to charge you since you're using YOUR money somewhere else?
Ok.. The iPhone is your unlimited data bank. You can use it all you want for free. But if you start drawing data from another bank (another device) you have to pay
See how that works.
They didn't force you to sign a contract. So they didn't steal from you. Just because you're too lazy or don't care about the terms you sign when you sign because you have to have your shiny new toy, don't blame ATT.
Again - you did not have to sign a CONTRACT. That was a CHOICE.
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