So how do you justify to your self stealing?

[nateo200]

I understand that Ill get attacked for this but Im reading all these ways to tether for free, jailbreak for this or that. Im just curious how you justify stealing a service from a company just because you feel that you are entitled to it for what ever reason. If the company is such a rip off, why dont you take your business elsewhere.
Now I completely understand jail breaking to some degree, but to do it to steal services from a company is no different than somebody than tapping into your house for free cable or wifi, something like that. You cant tell me you wouldnt be mad if a year down the road someone did this to you and they got free service off you while they you payed for it. How are you any different than the people that pay ATT for tethering honestly while you steal it?

I dont like the way ATT has it set up, but is is their company. And just because I feel they should give a service like tethering for free, doesnt mean they have to. So flame away and justify taking a service like tethering for free when there are people out there that pay for it honestly.

I suggest you better study the difference between "service" and "feature" as well as look at every other carrier in the worlds tethering "plans" (aka unblocked) before you make accusations. Verizon does the same thing with my droid. Whether I am emailing on my droid or stream iPorn from iPad tethered to my phone is none of their damn business! (btw idk if their is an "iporn" but it's a clever name). I'm not stealing service at all, I'm using it. Btw I believe in the TOS streaming video at one point was against it yet our phones came loaded with YouTube? I guess I was stealing then too!

 

[readerbreader]

Unlimited data through a phone, not a computer.

Tethering is a premium that has an additional cost.

right, i pay for data on my phone, but if i find a way, or someone else finds a way to SHARE that data with another device (That I'm still paying for) how is that stealing? if someone taps into my cable, and i pay for it (not knowing), they're not stealing from the cable company.

 

[rwilliams]

Does anyone have a link/chart/graph or any other kind of hard data that shows that tethering through a laptop causes additional strain on AT&T's network, as opposed to consuming the same data using an iPhone? Wouldn't the iPhone always be the bottleneck as far as bandwidth is concerned, therefore not causing any additional strain on the network whatsoever? And if there is no additional strain on the network (which presumably is the reasoning behind the tethering charge), wouldn't AT&T be guilty of double-charging gullible customers for no reason other than because they can?

 

[samcraig]

I suggest you better study the difference between "service" and "feature" as well as look at every other carrier in the worlds tethering "plans" (aka unblocked) before you make accusations. Verizon does the same thing with my droid. Whether I am emailing on my droid or stream iPorn from iPad tethered to my phone is none of their damn business! (btw idk if their is an "iporn" but it's a clever name). I'm not stealing service at all, I'm using it. Btw I believe in the TOS streaming video at one point was against it yet our phones came loaded with YouTube? I guess I was stealing then too!

That's nice - Verizon has one set of T&C's and ATT another. Just because it's ok on one network doesn't make it right on every other

right, i pay for data on my phone, but if i find a way, or someone else finds a way to SHARE that data with another device (That I'm still paying for) how is that stealing? if someone taps into my cable, and i pay for it (not knowing), they're not stealing from the cable company.

Yes - they are stealing from the cable company and they are also stealing from you. They are not paying for services that they are getting. Explain how that is not stealing.

 

[RobT]

I'm not jailbroken and don't have tethering thru AT&T. I really wish AT&T would do like Rogers in Canada, however, and let you tether as a part of your already paid for service, like Verizon does on the Palm Pre.

 

[samcraig]

Does anyone have a link/chart/graph or any other kind of hard data that shows that tethering through a laptop causes additional strain on AT&T's network, as opposed to consuming the same data using an iPhone? Wouldn't the iPhone always be the bottleneck as far as bandwidth is concerned, therefore not causing any additional strain on the network whatsoever?

It can be argued that you might use your phone x much with data. But if you use another device, you are adding strain because you wouldn't be able to do X on the phone. IE - maybe you're downloading torrents on your laptop which you can't do on your phone. So that's data that you couldn't use under your phone plan. Make sense?

 

[wirelessmacuser]

I don't do it, so I don't have to justify it.

I like the rationalization given above. Since they provide unlimited data they can steal it. That is essentially, I can do what I want, and I don't care so FU.

It is a rationalization based on a sense of entitlement that is not deserved.

I guess if I pay $10 a month for lifeline cable and steal all the premium channels it is not stealing either, because I am paying for it.

With AT&T they offer a specific plan for tethering that costs a certain fee. They in no way shape or form make available as part of the normal data usage the ability to tether. That should be clarity enough for anyone to know what they are doing is wrong.

People will justify pretty much any crime. Serial Killers and Mass Murderers can justify their actions, so when people steal from AT&T it is not hard for them to justify it, even if they are wrong.

Kudos for a responsible, right thinking post...

It's very refreshing to see that others like myself pay for what they use.

When one chooses a service provider such as AT&T or Verizon, or whomever, you are buying a service that is well defined by a contract. It is your responsibility to know what you are buying before you sign for it and agree to it's terms and conditions. If you do anything outside of what that contract allows then you are stealing. It's very simple really.

So take the time to read... not just believe whatever you are told. Unless it's in writing it doesn't exist.

Get real people, you cannot go through life stealing and justifying it. At some point there will be consequences.

Cheers...

 

[rwilliams]

It can be argued that you might use your phone x much with data. But if you use another device, you are adding strain because you wouldn't be able to do X on the phone. IE - maybe you're downloading torrents on your laptop which you can't do on your phone. So that's data that you couldn't use under your phone plan. Make sense?

Yes. But if I'm contracted to pay for 2 GB of data each month, I'm allowed to use 1 MB of data that month all the way up to 2 GB without incurring any additional expense, and AT&T already knows that, per the terms of the agreement. So, if I normally use 200 MB a month just on the phone, but I decide to tether (which I don't) one month and use all 2 GB downloading torrents, AT&T is bound by the terms of our deal to give me that entire 2 GB without additional charge. How that data is used is irrelevant. My contract says that I can use up to 2 GB of data each month for a set price. Nowhere in that deal does it say that I can only use that 2 GB to download certain types of content.

So again, unless AT&T can produce hard numbers to show that me downloading an .AVI file, torrent, or .DMG file through my computer (which would be tethered to the iPhone) produces more strain on their network than me downloading whatever file types the iPhone can handle, they're double-charging for no reason at all, other than greed.

 

[Brother Esau]

Not going to read nor quote everything you wrote.

I heard that because you do a ton of business with ATT, you should be entitled to break one of your contracts by going against their T&C.

A) How would you react if one of YOUR customers did that?

B) Do you realize that not all divisions of ATT are the same? Just because you have advertise with one division doesn't entitle you to something else completely.

Just because I spend a fortune with Pepsi doesn't entitle me to discounted tacos at taco bell.

I am not breaking anything Sam! My phone has the iOS 4.1 GM installed on it hence it is not Jailbroken My point is this I have a Legally Binding Contract with AT&T for Unlimited Data Use and I expect that to be Legally Honored!

Perhaps those that feel that this is ok that AT&T is doing this is because they themselves steal and say.... Hey Nothing Personal its just Business!

I think this would be a Fairly Dead On Accurate statement wouldn't you say gents?

 

[Eso]

You are seriously going to use THAT as an example?

Ludicrous. But even as ludicrous and asinine as your derivative is - the slave, in your example would be the phone. And ATT isn't telling you what to do with the phone. Your contract is regarding the data.

But that's a completely absurd and horrible analogy and it says a lot about you, no offense really intended, that your mind went THERE as opposed to finding something more appropriate.

It's not an analogy.

You are saying that it is wrong to challenge the law or policy, period. There's no debate, no exceptions, and no basis to argue otherwise.

Our entire judicial system, however, is predicated on the fact that it isn't wrong to challenge the law. The law is up for debate, there can be exceptions, and arguments against the law can find a basis. Laws are passed on the assumption that they are valid. It is up to the courts, however, to verify whether or not a law is actually constitutional.

The law used to state that black people were property. Like I said, if everyone thought like you, they would would never challenge the law. Therefore the law would never change, and thus black people would still be slaves.

The same is true for civil matters, such as corporate policies and wireless service contracts.

Just because AT&T's contract states that the plan doesn't include tethering doesn't mean it is a valid clause. People have the right to challenge it, and no one that "steals" tethering (it's just breaking the contract, which is a civil matter, therefore criminal charges such as stealing don't apply) is a thief (guilty) until a court rules that the contract is appropriate.

 

[Orange™]

**** ATT, those greedy bastards!!!

Could some one explain to me why there service is so horrendous even though they've been making record profits??? They say the money goes toward making their service better but we all know that's BS. It's going straight to those bastards bank accounts.


I don't steal nor have I jailbreaked but I would have no quarrel with someone who did because ATT is full of BS and lies. They don't care about your user experience just their wallets.

The CEO is a complete tool. It's offensive when they stated: "Most of our customers are on family plans so we're not worried about them switching because they're basically stuck with us.[HAHAHAHA suckers]"

Again, **** ATT.

 

[samcraig]

I will not and cannot justify a capped plan and tethering. In that scenario - I believe ATT shouldn't care whether or not you tether. I don't think there's an argument there against getting what you pay for.

The issue is for those who are saying that tethering should be included for those who have unlimited plans.

We could throw around (and have) analogies both good and bad.

The bottom line is - at current, it's against ATT's T&Cs that people signed.

I don't think it's wrong to question it. I don't think it's wrong to petition, or whatever you want to do to fight it. But that doesn't extend to breaking the "rules" on your own terms. And don't equate basic human rights with a data plan. You insult everyone who was discriminated against and those who fought for them. That's what I find ludicrous. We're talking about a data plan - not some "higher" cause. Using one as an example of the other is insulting.

 

[XJ13sd]

The OP and those who agree with them are complete tools and are more than likely outcasts of society and right winged a holes. Can just tell by the posts and responses. Like most people said, we already pay AT&T for UNLIMITED data and or a certain amount of gigs, who cares how its used. AT&T is a bitch of a company for even charging for tethering and only whinny little girls would complain about other people tethering. Grow up. Has anybody been called by AT&T and told they were going to have their service shut down for tethering? Not that I know of.
Lets say you purchased a car and you want the most out of your new BMW, so you drive down the highway at 85 mph everywhere, are you legally allowed to drive that speed, no, if you get caught are there consequences, yes, are you going to call highway patrol when you get home and say, hay I was just doing 85 in a 60, want to give me a ticket, noooo... So please op have you ever speeded, yes, don't even try to deny it, so basically you are stealing money from the sate by speeding and not paying the fine associated with it, right, isn't this how your brain works. Moron

 

[NT1440]

But that context is selfishly drenched in a sense of entitlement.

It's not about what you FEEL makes it right, its about what profits they require. They make the deal and you either take it or leave it. The deal is that tethering is locked until you pay a fee and they'll enable the service. They have a reason for it and that is the deal. It's what they need to operate their service.

They don't NEED to block tethering. Their infrastructure and profit revenues will not fall apart if users tether.

I still can't beleive the "protect the companies profits at all costs" mindset here in America. They economically rape us, yet for some reason we turn around and thank them for the privilege.

And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're stupid.

 

[samcraig]

The OP and those who agree with them are complete tools and are more than likely outcasts of society and right winged a holes. Can just tell by the posts and responses. Like most people said, we already pay AT&T for UNLIMITED data and or a certain amount of gigs, who cares how its used. AT&T is a bitch of a company for even charging for tethering and only whinny little girls would complain about other people tethering. Grow up. Has anybody been called by AT&T and told they were going to have their service shut down for tethering? Not that I know of.
Lets say you purchased a car and you want the most out of your new BMW, so you drive down the highway at 85 mph everywhere, are you legally allowed to drive that speed, no, if you get caught are there consequences, yes, are you going to call highway patrol when you get home and say, hay I was just doing 85 in a 60, want to give me a ticket, noooo... So please op have you ever speeded, yes, don't even try to deny it, so basically you are stealing money from the sate by speeding and not paying the fine associated with it, right, isn't this how your brain works. Moron

Let's just admit that you think your opinion is "better" than anyone else's. Because near as I can tell - you're not original here. Your stance has been stated. So who's the tool exactly?

PS your analogy is a joke and so far off point.

 

[Meyvn]

think of it like buying a pizza.
so you go into to att pizzeria, and you buy a large pizza, one that you could never eat by yourself.
so you eat a few slices while your there, but you don't want this pizza to go to waste. You ask for a box, but your server informs you that large pizza's aren't allowed to be taken to go. only small, or medium pies are allowed to leave the pizzeria.
you're like, WTF! i just paid for this large pizza that i could never finish by myself! so you just leave with it. you already paid for it, it's yours why can't you bring it home, to eat with friends and family?

kinda crappy analogy. but it's kinda the same thing.
we just want to eat our large pizza with more than one plate.....

It's not kind of the same thing. A better analogy would be going into an "all you can eat" pizza place, paying for your food with the agreement that it's all you can eat in the restaurant, and then, after you've gotten your fill, sneaking some out another way, despite having agreed not to do so.

It doesn't matter if you think AT&T's plan is unjustified. It wouldn't matter if you were paying $500 a month for your data plan, and your nextdoor neighbor was paying $5 a month for a data plan with free unlimited tethering. What AT&T chooses to charge, has no bearing in the discussion, because as their customer, you have chosen to pay it. Similarly, the fairness or unfairness of their T&C is irrelevant, because as their customer, you chose to agree to them. The only way it could BECOME relevant is if their T&C violated the law, which it does not.

Using an exploit to gain free tethering against the terms and conditions of your service provider is breaking your agreement. It's wrong. Period.

 

[samcraig]

It's not kind of the same thing. A better analogy would be going into an "all you can eat" pizza place, paying for your food with the agreement that it's all you can eat in the restaurant, and then, after you've gotten your fill, sneaking some out another way, despite having agreed not to do so.

It doesn't matter if you think AT&T's plan is unjustified. It wouldn't matter if you were paying $500 a month for your data plan, and your nextdoor neighbor was paying $5 a month for a data plan with free unlimited tethering. What AT&T chooses to charge, has no bearing in the discussion, because as their customer, you have chosen to pay it. Similarly, the fairness or unfairness of their T&C is irrelevant, because as their customer, you chose to agree to them. The only way it could BECOME relevant is if their T&C violated the law, which it does not.

Using an exploit to gain free tethering against the terms and conditions of your service provider is breaking your agreement. It's wrong. Period.

exactly - almost word for word what I wrote a page or two back

 

[iParis]

Let's just admit that you think your opinion is "better" than anyone else's. Because near as I can tell - you're not original here. Your stance has been stated. So who's the tool exactly?

PS your analogy is a joke and so far off point.

While he may be just restating points other posters have said, his analogy isn't half that bad. It may not be the most related, but it gets the point across. His analogy is different. Most of them have been comparing what AT&T is doing to other stuff, but he is comparing unofficial tethering (which some may consider a crime) to another crime and saying that you wouldn't turn yourself in for it.

Another example of that would be say you pirate music, videos, software, etc (let's not get into this argument), you wouldn't randomly turn yourself in for that even though technically it's stealing money. The same way that getting away with speeding and not getting caught, from the previous poster's point of view, is stealing from the state. Even though, if I was tethering through a jailbreak I would not mind letting AT&T know, there is nothing they can do about it. XD

EDIT: Well, my post is all assuming I understand his analogy correctly. Ha.

 

[Eso]

The issue is for those who are saying that tethering should be included for those who have unlimited plans.

AT&T's argument against tethering is that it causes an inordinate strain on their network compared to a wireless device alone. Now, network load is either in terms of bandwidth or total data usage. The bandwidth is equivalent whether the iPhone is tethered or not. The argument then rests on the idea that tethering transmits more data.

Now AT&T is caught in a paradox. You can't argue for additional charges for using more data when the costumer already pays for an unlimited amount. You can't argue that the customer isn't "actually" paying for an unlimited amount because those are the terms in the contract (I have heard there is "fair use" of around 5 GB though). If one claim has merit, the other does not, so AT&T loses either way.

Furthermore, the iPhone itself already has the capability of transmitting vast amounts of data. For example, by streaming Pandora to the iPhone continuously at 128 kbps for a month, the iPhone will use 39 GB of data. If you constantly use AT&T's data with modest 1.25 Mbps wireless connection, you can transmit 390 GB per month with the iPhone.

It really doesn't matter what the terms of service say. If those terms are challenged, AT&T has to form an argument that justifies those terms. Just the fact that those are the terms of the contract customers sign isn't enough (the "because we said so" defense").

That said, it would still be interesting if anyone could post a copy of the terms of the unlimited data plan.

We could throw around (and have) analogies both good and bad.

Analogies are unnecessary and distracting. We should just focus on discussing the terms

And don't equate basic human rights with a data plan. You insult everyone who was discriminated against and those who fought for them. That's what I find ludicrous. We're talking about a data plan - not some "higher" cause. Using one as an example of the other is insulting.

The principle doesn't change; how "high" of a cause is it is just subjective. The only difference at this point is the fact that AT&T doesn't enforce the terms - they aren't canceling anyone's contract nor filling suit on customers for past tethering charges.

 

[Dr Kevorkian94]

Willy Wanka:

IT's ALL THERE BALCK AND WHITE CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, YOU STOLE FIZZY LIFTING DRINKS U BUMPED INTO THE CEILING WITCH NOW HAS TO BE WASHED AND STERILIZED ITS OVER YOU LOSE YOU GET NOTHING GOOD DAY SIR!!!!

And now the AT&T version


IT's ALL THERE ORANGE AND BLUE CLEAR AS YOUR IPHONES SCREEN, YOU STOLE OUR DATA U BUMPED DATA SPEEDS DOWN WITCH NOW THE TOWER HAS TO BE SHUT DOWN AND REAMPED ITS OVER YOUR CONTRACT IS TERMINATED YOU GET NOTHING GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!

LOL

Lol but I don't consider it stealing if u are within your data limet

 

[iParis]

That said, it would still be interesting if anyone could post a copy of the terms of the unlimited data plan.

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/plan-terms.jsp

Scroll down almost half way, it's there.

 

[iParis]

IT's ALL THERE BALCK AND WHITE CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, YOU STOLE FIZZY LIFTING DRINKS U BUMPED INTO THE CEILING WITCH NOW HAS TO BE WASHED AND STERILIZED ITS OVER YOU LOSE YOU GET NOTHING GOOD DAY SIR!!!!

And now the AT&T version


IT's ALL THERE ORANGE AND BLUE CLEAR AS YOUR IPHONES SCREEN, YOU STOLE OUR DATA U BUMPED DATA SPEEDS DOWN WITCH NOW THE TOWER HAS TO BE SHUT DOWN AND REAMPED ITS OVER YOUR CONTRACT IS TERMINATED YOU GET NOTHING GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!

LOL

Lol but I don't consider it stealing if u are within your data limet

Even if you are out of your data limit, it won't be considered stealing since you will get charged for how much you go over.

 

[Meyvn]

While he may be just restating points other posters have said, his analogy isn't half that bad. It may not be the most related, but it gets the point across. His analogy is different. Most of them have been comparing what AT&T is doing to other stuff, but he is comparing unofficial tethering (which some may consider a crime) to another crime and saying that you wouldn't turn yourself in for it.

It's still off point. "Yeah it's wrong, but who cares?" is not an argument against the wrongness of breaking the T&C to gain tethering you're supposed to pay for. It's a red herring. Even if the OP was a kleptomaniac shoplifter, breaking your agreement to obtain free tethering would still be wrong. You could freely call the OP a hypocrite, but it would have no relevance to the discussion of who's right on this particular issue.

Another example of that would be say you pirate music, videos, software, etc (let's not get into this argument), you wouldn't randomly turn yourself in for that even though technically it's stealing money. The same way that getting away with speeding and not getting caught, from the previous poster's point of view, is stealing from the state. Even though, if I was tethering through a jailbreak I would not mind letting AT&T know, there is nothing they can do about it. XD

EDIT: Well, my post is all assuming I understand his analogy correctly. Ha.

You and the other guy have been harping on turning yourself in as if that's the issue. It isn't. It's whether it's right or wrong. I'm sure the OP would just to see people stop stealing tethering. Heck, they'd even probably be happy to see people continue stealing tethering, but stop pretending as if they're justified in doing so.

 

[Eso]

What AT&T chooses to charge, has no bearing in the discussion, because as their customer, you have chosen to pay it. Similarly, the fairness or unfairness of their T&C is irrelevant, because as their customer, you chose to agree to them. The only way it could BECOME relevant is if their T&C violated the law, which it does not.

It doesn't matter if the customer has agreed to the service or not, nor if it is a matter of breaking the law (that's why there is civil court, you know).

Not long ago it was, "I'm sorry, we don't hire black people here." What's the problem? You don't have to work here, just find a different job. Well, turns out it was a problem and now he have laws against discrimination on the workplace.

Or, if you want a more modern example... "I'm sorry, we don't let Muslims build a mosque at ground zero." What's the problem? Just build it somewhere else.

Using an exploit to gain free tethering against the terms and conditions of your service provider is breaking your agreement. It's wrong. Period.

AT&T's terms of service are wrong. Period.

 

[samcraig]

AT&T's argument against tethering is that it causes an inordinate strain on their network compared to a wireless device alone. Now, network load is either in terms of bandwidth or total data usage. The bandwidth is equivalent whether the iPhone is tethered or not. The argument then rests on the idea that tethering transmits more data.

....

I wrote this earlier. If you are paying for unlimited on your iPhone you are using data differently than on a laptop. There are things you can't do on your phone that you can do on your laptop. For example - download huge files/send huge files. You're limited by the iPhone's capabilities. Therefor ATT's unlimited is something they've bean counted to figure out "max usage" - and I am not talking any mythical 5 gig cap. I'm just saying that there's a max that most users will use.

But - now add a laptop - and now you can download movies, stream peer to peer files and many other things that use the network as it wasn't planned for.

Buying a tethering plan doesn't give you unlimited data tethering. They've capped it for exactly this reason.

You would have an argument if ATT had unlimited tethering and ALSO charged you for unlimited iPhone data. As there would be obvious overlap. But I'd still say my scenario applies. I just think they would have less of a leg to stand on.

As it is - ATT knows realistic data usage for the average user. And they've determined that their unlimited plan (prior) and network can handle that. They are asking a premium to use their networks in another way.

Again - there's no real argument. As of today, tethering without a tethering plan is against T&C and therefor a violation of your contract. You can call it stealing, you can call it something else. Who cares. Doesn't matter.