MP All Models So long, old friend.

[BillyJoeJimBob]

I solved the problem I saw coming in early 2020 by building a Hackintosh with OpenCore. It is the quietest, most powerful, and the most stable Mac I ever owned –I've owned a lot since 1992. Everything works. I have Full SIP, Filevault, Thunderbolt hotswap. I was able to do all this for half the price of the 2019 machine. It is perfect for a recording studio. I would not be surprised if it is still running after 20 years, long after most of us realize that the "upgrade" cycle is just a cousin of Social Media FOMO. 😎

 

[zephonic]

What OS are you on? All the new stuff works?

 

[johnmacward]

This is pretty disgusting if you ask me, but perhaps not surprising. This company has never believed in making a desktop workstation accessible to many people. Shameful

Is that really "shameful" and "disgusting" ? Very emotive language over what is an utterly niche and super overpriced Mac inaccessible to most.

 

[Fastsavage]

I think you mean Star Trek.

I don't like that either 😛

 

[avro707]

utterly niche and super overpriced Mac inaccessible to most.

MacBook Pro looks very expensive as well. Mac Studio M3 Ultra also massively expensive and nobody complains about that. And if you needed one soon, forget it, delivery date showing 31/08/2026.

AirPods Max 2 at AUD$1000, again really expensive. Note that AirPods Max have history of being unreliable.

Apple has form for a long time of doing the "Apple Tax" thing with rip-off memory and storage upgrade prices which in previous years have been far more affordable to buy from elsewhere.

 

[BillyJoeJimBob]

What OS are you on? All the new stuff works?

Sequoia. But I can run any of them back to Mojave with a small tweak. I had Tahoe for awhile, but aside from the beautiful wallpaper, there are just too many annoyances. IMO, Ventura is the best for this machine, but it's better if I swap out the RX6600 for the RX580 (for power-saving graphics in Ventura, otherwise the RX580 always runs at 80W.)

 

[Fastsavage]

MacBook Pro looks very expensive as well. Mac Studio M3 Ultra also massively expensive and nobody complains about that. And if you needed one soon, forget it, delivery date showing 31/08/2026.

AirPods Max 2 at AUD$1000, again really expensive. Note that AirPods Max have history of being unreliable.

Apple has form for a long time of doing the "Apple Tax" thing with rip-off memory and storage upgrade prices which in previous years have been far more affordable to buy from elsewhere.

I didn't think that the upgrade prices on the MacBook Pro were too bad NZ$800 for an extra 24Gb of RAM? and NZ$400 to go from 15 Core CPU / 16 Core GPU to 18 Core CPU / 20 Core GPU or am I just used to it now....

 

[mikas]

What have you done with your Mac Pro today? (reminiscent of the famous Power PC community, What have you done with your Power PC today, of MR community)

Seriously, a sad incident to me at least.

Thank You for the MacPro community, You have been a great family to me, a source of inspiration and help.

I've moved on earlier already, to PC and windows. I don't hate windows anymore. I've got used to using it. It's partly idiotic still, but I agree that MacOS is becoming just as idiotic every release upcoming lately.

And the Apple upselling of memory and storage - I just can't go for it anymore now that they have it all disclosed by themself alone, no 3rd party upgrades possible. Yeah, TB5 is good enough ok, almost, but it costs another dime above the all earlier. And it's not as fast nor flexible as a full PCIe is.

Just bought an M4 Max Studio for my best coworker. He insists a Mac. It's a yers long habit for him. So be it. I'm now on PC hardware, upgradable and cheaper. More software choice than on Mac. A lot more hardware choice than on Mac. I do know, I've been on Mac since 1990's.

I still do hate windows though. The forced software updates are a real nuisance to me. I really do hate them. Other side of the stack; Window management in the WinOS is so good though, much better than in MacOS.

OS managing: MacOS preference managing is starting to look more like WinOS prefs management all the time. A lot of fuss it is. Hard to find what you look for.

My latest Mac Pros are 3 pcs of tcMPs (6,1). Maybe I'll grab an 7,1 if cheap enough, just for the memories and for a full collectible status of the intel era equipment. Really don't know yet. I could grab a 12 core with 5700 at like 1500EUR. It's just that I am better with my PC equip. at the moment. Full Path Tracing in TwinMotion with RTX4080. 256GB of system memory. Whatever NVMe I choose to use at whatever size I can grab whom ever 3rd party I ever want.

I feel very disappointed by Apple today. They did this self-approved and I believe self driven discontinuation of the Mac Pro. They drove all of it themself to fulfill the discontuniation decision of the Mac Pro. The product was constructed so that there was no need for it anymore.

So be it. I'm off for waiting the Mac Pro to be reborn.

ps. Cheers Mac Pro friends

 

[Flint Ironstag]

@mikas the eulogy is a bit premature! 🤣 We're out here doing interesting stuff with our MP2019s. They're still highly capable, fully supported, prices keep dropping, and proxmox exists!

 

[Mac3Duser]

@mikas the eulogy is a bit premature! 🤣 We're out here doing interesting stuff with our MP2019s. They're still highly capable, fully supported, prices keep dropping, and proxmox exists!

I'd like you to explain this Proxmox thing to me. I don't understand how it could change the MP2019.

 

[SDAVE]

What have you done with your Mac Pro today? (reminiscent of the famous Power PC community, What have you done with your Power PC today, of MR community)

Seriously, a sad incident to me at least.

Thank You for the MacPro community, You have been a great family to me, a source of inspiration and help.

I've moved on earlier already, to PC and windows. I don't hate windows anymore. I've got used to using it. It's partly idiotic still, but I agree that MacOS is becoming just as idiotic every release upcoming lately.

And the Apple upselling of memory and storage - I just can't go for it anymore now that they have it all disclosed by themself alone, no 3rd party upgrades possible. Yeah, TB5 is good enough ok, almost, but it costs another dime above the all earlier. And it's not as fast nor flexible as a full PCIe is.

Just bought an M4 Max Studio for my best coworker. He insists a Mac. It's a yers long habit for him. So be it. I'm now on PC hardware, upgradable and cheaper. More software choice than on Mac. A lot more hardware choice than on Mac. I do know, I've been on Mac since 1990's.

I still do hate windows though. The forced software updates are a real nuisance to me. I really do hate them. Other side of the stack; Window management in the WinOS is so good though, much better than in MacOS.

OS managing: MacOS preference managing is starting to look more like WinOS prefs management all the time. A lot of fuss it is. Hard to find what you look for.

My latest Mac Pros are 3 pcs of tcMPs (6,1). Maybe I'll grab an 7,1 if cheap enough, just for the memories and for a full collectible status of the intel era equipment. Really don't know yet. I could grab a 12 core with 5700 at like 1500EUR. It's just that I am better with my PC equip. at the moment. Full Path Tracing in TwinMotion with RTX4080. 256GB of system memory. Whatever NVMe I choose to use at whatever size I can grab whom ever 3rd party I ever want.

I feel very disappointed by Apple today. They did this self-approved and I believe self driven discontinuation of the Mac Pro. They drove all of it themself to fulfill the discontuniation decision of the Mac Pro. The product was constructed so that there was no need for it anymore.

So be it. I'm off for waiting the Mac Pro to be reborn.

ps. Cheers Mac Pro friends

The day I have to switch to Windows is the day I retire. I just can't do it for work related stuff (Design and production)

 

[BillyJoeJimBob]

Maybe in 5-8 years when Apple has a new CEO and switches from AS back to Intel, there will be a new Mac Pro. -Because all Macs will be portless-wonders right before the Intel reversion. Write it down.

 

[davidec]

Even though my studios are laden with Apple Silicon machines my main room (due to PCIe requirements) still houses my MacPro 2019 which I use daily for major music projects. Poor thing doing its job perfectly well whilst knowing its days are limited…..

 

[Mac3Duser]

Maybe in 5-8 years when Apple has a new CEO and switches from AS back to Intel, there will be a new Mac Pro. -Because all Macs will be portless-wonders right before the Intel reversion. Write it down.

Switch back to intel, not necessarily. But a return to the Mac Pro would be welcome.
I posted some infos on the MS-02 Ultra from Minisforum in another thread; it's a very small case with an internal power supply and lots of ports, and I've installed a 16GB Blackwell RTX Pro 2000 in it. It would be an amazing tool if this kind of machine worked with macOS.

 

[StuAff]

Yup, that's what came to mind for me too.

 

[zephonic]

Maybe in 5-8 years when Apple has a new CEO and switches from AS back to Intel, there will be a new Mac Pro. -Because all Macs will be portless-wonders right before the Intel reversion. Write it down.

I don’t know what would lead you to think Apple would ever go back to Intel? Unless you mean Intel as a foundry for Apple’s own chip designs, that is entirely possible, of course.

But Apple reverting to x86? Why on Earth would they ever do that?

 

[deconstruct60]

I don’t know what would lead you to think Apple would ever go back to Intel?

Go back to post 326 at the top of this page. Poster needs support for the illusion that macOS on Intel will still have some nominal support in 5-15 years from now so that the referenced Hackintosh is still working and usefully tracking improvements.

Steve Jobs , not Cook, put Apple on the path to using its own Silicon. Another CEO isn't going to change that. There was a matter of short term connivence that Jobs temporarily picked moving to commodity PC infrastructure (i.e. moved to Intel and x86). But at roughly the same time Jobs also launched investments to get Apple products off. iPhone, iPad ... etc. As long as the Apple product ecosystem is healthly and comfortably paying for the chip R&D , switching isn't a 'call' a CEO can make willy-nilly. Circumstances, not a person, is going to make the determination.

But in a small, narrow world looking out from a individual product instance ... it doesn't have to match reality.

The "I built a hackintosh and I'm super happy" crowd is one of the principle contributors to why the Apple stopped selling the Mac Pro. Non consumers coasting on others paying for development probably don't really count as 'votes' to keep product alive and viable.

Unless you mean Intel as a foundry for Apple’s own chip designs, that is entirely possible, of course.

Even if it is just back to x86-64. Intel probably would not be the top vendor Apple would pick. AMD is steadily eroding Intel's x86 share. Intel climbing into bed with Nvidia for large integrated GPUs isn't a 'plus' indicator either if Apple even dreamed of going back.

In 5 years, Intel is most likely not going to be what Intel was 20 years ago.

But Apple reverting to x86? Why on Earth would they ever do that?

I suppose there is a possibility that if AI imploded like a Black Hole that it might take Arm chips with it.
"... "Our analysis projects Arm-based CPUs will account for at least 90% of host CPU deployments in custom AI ASIC servers by 2029, up from around 25% in 2025, a structural shift driven by the accelerating rollout of in-house Arm CPU programs across major hyperscalers," ..."
https://tech.yahoo.com/ai/articles/report-claims-arm-chips-power-173630952.html

Not likely, but if Arm way overplays their hand and busts 'big time', then they could permanently damage their ecosystem. Up there in likelihood that iPhone disappears in 5 years ( the AI inflection point moves everyone off to new devices where Apple has no traction). Technically possible, but also not particularly likely.

 

[zephonic]

I suppose there is a possibility that if AI imploded like a Black Hole that it might take Arm chips with it.
"... "Our analysis projects Arm-based CPUs will account for at least 90% of host CPU deployments in custom AI ASIC servers by 2029, up from around 25% in 2025, a structural shift driven by the accelerating rollout of in-house Arm CPU programs across major hyperscalers," ..."
https://tech.yahoo.com/ai/articles/report-claims-arm-chips-power-173630952.html

Not likely, but if Arm way overplays their hand and busts 'big time', then they could permanently damage their ecosystem. Up there in likelihood that iPhone disappears in 5 years ( the AI inflection point moves everyone off to new devices where Apple has no traction). Technically possible, but also not particularly likely.

IDK, not sure how a potential AI implosion would take ARM down with it, but I guess anything is possible. Even if that happened though, I'm not sure how that would take down Apple Silicon, much less cause Apple to pivot back to x86?

I disagreed with Tim Cook's strategy to transform Apple into a luxury brand, but maybe it was a smart move after all.

I feel that as long as their products are reasonably competent and up to date, the prestige/status aspect will help them stay in the market, even if the smartphone is replaced by a new device.

They'll be like the Mercedes of tech.

 

[theluggage]

Maybe in 5-8 years when Apple has a new CEO and switches from AS back to Intel, there will be a new Mac Pro. -Because all Macs will be portless-wonders right before the Intel reversion. Write it down.

I don't know about "portless" but even in the PC world tower/PCIe systems are already becoming more and more niche. as people switch to laptops and mini-PCs. x86 is moving towards systems-on-a-chip, with integrated GPUs/NPUs and (predomenantly non-upgradeable) LPDDR RAM. Modern small form factor systems can provide a lot of power, and the Mac Studio can be used to build powerful clusters - the real "Heavy lifting" is moving onto industrial-grade server hardware in machine room racks - often in the cloud. The age of the "high end personal tower workstation" is over.

Maybe Apple will decide to produce some sort of server-grade Apple Silicon cluster but it wouldn't be anything like trhe Mac Pro.

I suppose there is a possibility that if AI imploded like a Black Hole that it might take Arm chips with it.

Well, the whole tech industry will catch a cold if/when that happens but ARM has the advantage of not being in the chip fabrication business - they'll lose license revenue and royalties but won't be left with unsold stock and idle production capacity on their hands... (well, they're now dipping a toe in making their own ARM chips but so far that's only risking a toe...).

 

[maflynn]

I don't know about "portless" but even in the PC world tower/PCIe systems are already becoming more and more niche.

I wouldn't define PC Desktops, as niche at this point, unlike minipcs and laptops, these machines have PCIE expansion slots. Discrete GPUs are still and will continue to be a major reason why people will not get minipcs and laptops

 

[theluggage]

I wouldn't define PC Desktops, as niche at this point, unlike minipcs and laptops, these machines have PCIE expansion slots. Discrete GPUs are still and will continue to be a major reason why people will not get minipcs and laptops

Well, we're up against the usual problem of no credible market information being available for free on line. Desktops certainly aren't going away but "desktop" doesn't necessarily mean "PCIe tower".

My experience is that people I know who previously used tower PCs are now increasingly using laptops and mini PCs. The big market for towers is "AAA gaming" and even that is being clobbered by shortages and price rises for discrete gaming GPUs (the current circus is following on from a major GPU shortage a few years back) - while even on x86, integrated GPUs and even steamdeck-style handhelds are getting good enough for 3D gaming. Companies are switching to laptops & "thin client" mini-PCs for flexible working/hot desking.

As for Apple - Apple are not interested in discrete GPUs - they do have a major gaming platform but it's called "the iPhone" and doesn't use discrete GPUs. Their flagship personal computer is the MacBook Pro (or maybe the Mac Studio) which perform best with pro software optimised for Apple Silicon integrated GPUs. The "secret sauce" for high-end Apple Silicon is the integrated GPU & NPU sharing fast access to the same unified memory. They need pro software producers to target Apple Silicon. A Mac Pro based around AMD/NVIDIA discrete GPUs would only ever be as good as the latest AMD/NVIDIA GPUs and wouldn't provide any "trickle down" pro software support for other Macs.

 

[maflynn]

Well, we're up against the usual problem of no credible market information being available for free on line. Desktops certainly aren't going away but "desktop" doesn't necessarily mean "PCIe tower".

No, but you were the one that said they're becoming more and more niche, which implies they're already in the niche category, and increasingly so.

 

[theluggage]

No, but you were the one that said they're becoming more and more niche, which implies they're already in the niche category, and increasingly so.

By niche I mean no longer mainstream, not extinct.

I really don't think that's an extraordinary claim if you look around.

Cast your mind back 20 years to when the Mac Pro was launched and think how many general-purpose tower PCs (plus keyboards, monitors, PCIe cards) you could find in your nearest PC superstore. Today you might still find some - probably gaming PCs - but laptops dominate, followed by SFF/all-in-ones.

 

[maflynn]

I really don't think that's an extraordinary claim if you look around.

See when I look around, both in online and in RL (in Microcenter), I see the polar opposite. People are buying desktop (mini-towers, full towers) more then anything else. Both Microcenter built PCs and people building their own. the store is jammed pack on weekends, and its nearly impossible to get a salesman to help you as they're all helping people with their component list.

I think it is an extraordinary claim.

I don't doubt that laptops are the most popular computer selection but that doesn't mean desktop computers or ones that use discrete GPUs are niche

 

[Flint Ironstag]

The crabs-in-a-bucket mentality around here is creating a real miasma. It's very simple, for you non Mac Pro Folks:

Apple has a package they can scale a bit to fit laptops and desktops, low end to mid-range. This satisfies let's say 95% of their customer base computing needs. But there are always people who need or want more.

If you can stuff x amount of computing power into a compact, light, energy efficient and aesthetically pleasing package, HOW MUCH MORE can you stuff into a bigger box??? People buy them. People buy S Class Mercedes, they buy 911 turbos. They're not going to be your biggest volume sellers, but they NEED to exist.

The halo effect is absolutely real, and the Mac Pro has ALWAYS been the halo product. If you watch the WWDC 2019 intro and can't comprehend this, please reply with "can't comprehend" so I can block you.