So pissed off at apple...ridiculous.

[Ploki]

And how do you think Apple would fir higher TDP GPU into MBP, when it has 85W PSU?

Historically all of MBP GPUs have had 35W TDP(power limit).

eh. You're mixing TDP with power draw.

TDP means how much heat the cooling system has to dissipate, and not how much actual power it draws.

the TDP limit of the cooling system affects how well a chip will perform and also will affect power consumption, but as "putting stuff in freezer" or using giant heatsinks has proven, power draw is less of an issue than heat in these machines.

https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/708365-TDP-vs-Power-Consumption-Theoretical

edit:
since Vega is new architecture, it's pretty safe to assume it will offer a better performance/watt (and there are speculations on the forums that support this theory)

meaning for same performance as Radeon 560X, it will generate LESS heat. Leaving more off the cooling system available for the CPU..
so if you're not tasking the GPU heavily, CPU should have more room to breath.

All speculation.

 

[koyoot]

eh. You're mixing TDP with power draw.

TDP means how much heat the cooling system has to dissipate, and not how much actual power it draws.

the TDP limit of the cooling system affects how well a chip will perform and also will affect power consumption, but as "putting stuff in freezer" or using giant heatsinks has proven, power draw is less of an issue than heat in these machines.

https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/708365-TDP-vs-Power-Consumption-Theoretical

edit:
since Vega is new architecture, it's pretty safe to assume it will offer a better performance/watt (and there are speculations on the forums that support this theory)

meaning for same performance as Radeon 560X, it will generate LESS heat. Leaving more off the cooling system available for the CPU..
so if you're not tasking the GPU heavily, CPU should have more room to breath.

All speculation.

TDP in Apple computers IS the power draw. TDP target in BIOS of each dGPU, in every single computer with dGPU is limiting its power draw. If you set 35W TDP, the GPU will not exceed this power draw.

Nobody, at Apple, cares about how each company looks at TDP. In case of Apple what matters is how Apple looks at it, and how sets it in the BIOS.

 

[doitdada]

Just bought an HP Omen Accelerator eGPU enclosure along with a Vega 56 for 650 dollars, but yeah, would be nice to get the internal GPU bump this summer instead of now in November. With the Blackmagic with Vega 56 costing almost 1200 dollars, it felt OK. Will also be able to put in a SSD/HDD in the enclosure as well.

Other Thunderbolt 3 docks with no functionality outside of added ports and charging is around 300-400 dollars, so I felt it was better to add 250 dollars to get some more GPU power added.

 

[Brian Y]

And how do you think Apple would fir higher TDP GPU into MBP, when it has 85W PSU?

Historically all of MBP GPUs have had 35W TDP(power limit).

So it was plucked out of thin air then.

Also, the MBP has had GPUs with a TDP > 35w. That's just what the current crop of AMD chips have. 650M is rated at 45w. 750M at 50w. M370X has a range of 40-45w.

 

[koyoot]

So it was plucked out of thin air then.

Also, the MBP has had GPUs with a TDP > 35w. That's just what the current crop of AMD chips have. 650M is rated at 45w. 750M at 50w. M370X has a range of 40-45w.

No. GT650M was limited to 35W TDP in the bios. 650M from MBPs always had lower core clock, than "standard laptop version" GT650M. Same thing went for GT750M. All of the GPUs MBP used always were limited in BIOS to 35W TDP/power draw.

 

[UBS28]

You got to admit, changing the line up after only 3 months without an upgrade plan for those that bought it during launch and did all the beta testing for Apple is crazy. It is the first time I have seen it.

Perhaps next time I should wait and let other people do all the beta testing (all issues are not fixed by Apple still btw). I might get more BTO options then also after only 3 months.

 

[ksg604]

I bought my 15in MBP i9/32gb/512/560x for $4600 after taxes in Canada with the student promotion applied to it back in late August.

Today I called Apple customer support over the phone with the hope that they could give me an exception to the 14-day return window that was standard for returns. I spoke to one lady who kept repeating back to me that they could not do anything about giving return exceptions and that I was basically SOL. I persevered and that lady transferred me to another lady who basically told me the same thing except she told me to go to local my apple store which I did.

I went to the apple store and spoke nicely to the sales rep manager there and he told me that basically the only thing he could do was provide a return exception for up to 30 days and that I was SOL on returning my MBP because its been a little over 60 days.

TLDR:

-Bought i9 MBP with student discount in august
-spoke to apple support and apple store about returning it because I wanted to upgrade to the new vega GPUs coming out
-they would not give me a return exception at all despite all my pleading
-

 

[HJBR200]

Personally, I don't regret my purchase as my new MBP provides excellent performance for all my need.
I don't want to go critical, however GPU is not a strength point of MBP,

 

[maflynn]

TLDR:

-Bought i9 MBP with student discount in august
-spoke to apple support and apple store about returning it because I wanted to upgrade to the new vega GPUs coming out
-they would not give me a return exception at all despite all my pleading

They'll bend the rules and return your laptop if its not much over the 14 day but in your case as you stated, you're over 60 days.

Push comes to shove, if you want the vega equipped model, sell this laptop and buy that one.

 

[_Kiki_]

They'll bend the rules and return your laptop if its not much over the 14 day but in your case as you stated, you're over 60 days.

Push comes to shove, if you want the vega equipped model, sell this laptop and buy that one.

in some countries is 30 days right for return because the law (for example countries in European Union), even if the Apple is still stating on their website about only 14 days for return

 

[maflynn]

in some countries is 30 days right for return because the law (for example countries in European Union), even if the Apple is still stating on their website about only 14 days for return

So? If the OP isn't in a country with that, he's out of luck.

 

[Ma2k5]

So? If the OP isn't in a country with that, he's out of luck.

Even if he was, 60>30 anyway right

 

[_Kiki_]

So? If the OP isn't in a country with that, he's out of luck.

he is because paid for a laptop using Euro, also PP has protection for buyers up to 180 days

 

[maflynn]

he is because paid for a laptop using Euro currency, also PP has protection for buyers up to 180 days

The person I was quoting bought it Canada. (I mistakenly called him the OP)

after taxes in Canada

 

[_Kiki_]

The person I was quoting bought it Canada. (I mistakenly called him the OP)

still CC can be used in some circumstances

 

[Brian Y]

No. GT650M was limited to 35W TDP in the bios. 650M from MBPs always had lower core clock, than "standard laptop version" GT650M. Same thing went for GT750M. All of the GPUs MBP used always were limited in BIOS to 35W TDP/power draw.

Got proof of that?

 

[koyoot]

Got proof of that?

Yes. Why don't you dig out the BIOSes of the said GPUs from the OS?

Got proof for the fact that AMD and Nvidia GPUs on MacBook Pros have had higher TDP than 35W, knowing that you have f***** 85W PSU, and 45W CPU to feed, alongside, display, mobo, RAM, SSD's, battery, everything that is inside the laptop?

45+35=80W of power.

 

[Ploki]

No. GT650M was limited to 35W TDP in the bios. 650M from MBPs always had lower core clock, than "standard laptop version" GT650M. Same thing went for GT750M. All of the GPUs MBP used always were limited in BIOS to 35W TDP/power draw.

not true...
GT650M in the 2012 retina was actually over clocked compared to identical non-retina 2011 macbook pro. it had better performance than standard issue 650M's.

Yes. Why don't you dig out the BIOSes of the said GPUs from the OS?

Got proof for the fact that AMD and Nvidia GPUs on MacBook Pros have had higher TDP than 35W, knowing that you have f***** 85W PSU, and 45W CPU to feed, alongside, display, mobo, RAM, SSD's, battery, everything that is inside the laptop?

45+35=80W of power.

Again, TDP =! power draw.
If you claim TDP == powerdraw you better back it up.
[doublepost=1541451699][/doublepost]

in some countries is 30 days right for return because the law (for example countries in European Union), even if the Apple is still stating on their website about only 14 days for return

It is?
why the heck didn't my retailer tell me that

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I bought my 15in MBP i9/32gb/512/560x for $4600 after taxes in Canada with the student promotion applied to it back in late August.

Today I called Apple customer support over the phone with the hope that they could give me an exception to the 14-day return window that was standard for returns. I spoke to one lady who kept repeating back to me that they could not do anything about giving return exceptions and that I was basically SOL. I persevered and that lady transferred me to another lady who basically told me the same thing except she told me to go to local my apple store which I did.

I went to the apple store and spoke nicely to the sales rep manager there and he told me that basically the only thing he could do was provide a return exception for up to 30 days and that I was SOL on returning my MBP because its been a little over 60 days.

TLDR:

-Bought i9 MBP with student discount in august
-spoke to apple support and apple store about returning it because I wanted to upgrade to the new vega GPUs coming out
-they would not give me a return exception at all despite all my pleading
-

TBH your laptop is no longer new (i.e. it's used) and I don't think there has ever been any reasonable expectation of a 2-month old return being accepted, as pristine as your laptop may be.

I feel for you, but you've still got a top-of-the line machine. If that performance is absolutely required for your workflow (considering that you got an inadequate machine in the first place), the $2000 hit you're going to suffer from depreciation on your current model (upgraded Macs get horrible resale prices) and the difference to a new one is justifiable.

 

[koyoot]

not true...
GT650M in the 2012 retina was actually over clocked compared to identical non-retina 2011 macbook pro. it had better performance than standard issue 650M's.

Again, TDP =! power draw.
If you claim TDP == powerdraw you better back it up.

TDP in Apple computers IS its power draw. I cannot post here, on the forum direct stats from BIOSes of Apple computers, that are related to the GPUs.

TDP Target is the power gate, in the BIOS, that NONE of GPUs with that power gate, will ever exceed. Otherwise - you would get computer shut down, when you would exceed the power draw target(which is called TDP Target in Apple computer BIOSes) both on CPU and GPU, under load. 85W PSU is just that: 85W PSU. And that has to feed 45W of power to CPU and 35W to the GPU in MacBook Pro.

Period.

I can post only Direct clocks for Mac Pro 2013 D700 GPU, because it was already posted on this forum, years ago: TDP Target 129W, 650 MHz@0.85v base clock, 850 MHz@1.05v turbo clock.

 

[ksg604]

TBH your laptop is no longer new (i.e. it's used) and I don't think there has ever been any reasonable expectation of a 2-month old return being accepted, as pristine as your laptop may be.

I feel for you, but you've still got a top-of-the line machine. If that performance is absolutely required for your workflow (considering that you got an inadequate machine in the first place), the $2000 hit you're going to suffer from depreciation on your current model (upgraded Macs get horrible resale prices) and the difference to a new one is justifiable.

Yeah I've gotten a headache from all this and decided to just accept the fact that eventually my machine will get outdated. I don't have a workflow that necessarily needs the power of that Radeon Pro Vega 20 GPU over the Radeon Pro 560x because I just use my machine for school, software development (the i9 was a good investment for that) and light gaming.

Honestly it would just be a hassle to me to return my MBP, wait for the refresh with the new GPUs, pay the difference in pricing and wait for the new MBP to ship to me anyways because I need my laptop for school. Plus, I got it with the student promotion so i would probably have to return my beats lol.

It's also reassuring to also think that I can just get an eGPU box if I really wanted more power if I needed it (I could get the power of a proper GTX 1070 or Vega 56 which would demolish the Vega 20) anyways. I just kind of feel bad for the professionals doing intensive graphics work who completely maxed out their MBPs with 4TB or 2TB SSDs who were hit by this news because it sucks and the only people who really feel it are the people who invested the big coin.

 

[ghostface147]

Some pretty miffed people out on here. I got a new one back in August and I’ll admit I was a little miffed about the new GPU options, but overall the laptop does what it needs for me. No popping sounds, no kernel panics, no overheating, no flash drive clicking (or whatever sound people are complaining about)....nothing. I’m happy with my decision.

 

[Ploki]

Some pretty miffed people out on here. I got a new one back in August and I’ll admit I was a little miffed about the new GPU options, but overall the laptop does what it needs for me. No popping sounds, no kernel panics, no overheating, no flash drive clicking (or whatever sound people are complaining about)....nothing. I’m happy with my decision.

I probably would be with mine if it worked, but it doesnt.

I also cannot accept they shipped at 5,3k machine with 2y old tech that they planned to upgrade anyway.

I opened a case with apple when the laptop was 13 days old - they've been dragging me through support, writing me mails "can i call you today" to which i replied after 5minutes "yes anytime" for calls i received 3 days later, till one month passed, now I'm not getting anything from them.

And my computer still doesn't work properly - i get audio dropouts and i'm a god damn audio professional, while all the dates (14 days, then one month) passed and a new one was released.

It's now one month and 14 days old and there's no news from apple. I paid 5300€ for it.
Support i received was none.

They literally ripped my money from me for a computer I cannot use for work. I'm off search for 2nd hand Mac Minis so i can actually record stuff.
[doublepost=1541460909][/doublepost]

It's also reassuring to also think that I can just get an eGPU box if I really wanted more power if I needed it (I could get the power of a proper GTX 1070 or Vega 56 which would demolish the Vega 20) anyways. I just kind of feel bad for the professionals doing intensive graphics work who completely maxed out their MBPs with 4TB or 2TB SSDs who were hit by this news because it sucks and the only people who really feel it are the people who invested the big coin.

Apple really dropped the ball here, they never ever did that and nobody could expect this, and nobody did.

Early adopters that beta tested for shoddy power management and horrible throttling and kernel panics get an unattainable upgrade on the same model for reward...

Gee, thanks apple, you beta-tested a rushed machine on me so you can release a proper one a few months later.
THANKS.


They cannot expect me to accept a *SERVICE* for a laptop for which i reported an issue when it was 13 days old - NEW. I cannot explain how sour this experience has been...

not to mention its performance dropped in a month. it cannot maintain base frequency anymore.
The "I just ordered / bought / got my new/refurb MBP" threads, merged

a fresh screenshot from just now.
2,7-2,8 when it gets hot.

I didn't buy a 2,9 i9 for 5300€ to have it run at 2,7GHz. (it even dropped to 2,6Ghz today)

 

[improwise]

in some countries is 30 days right for return because the law (for example countries in European Union), even if the Apple is still stating on their website about only 14 days for return

Not true about the EU having 30 days overall, some might have it though.

 

[Ploki]

Not true about the EU having 30 days overall, some might have it though.

yeh, i think our country only has 14 days.