So pissed off at apple...ridiculous.

[MacNut]

Are you seriously implying apple doesn't have a close relationship and deals with AMD?
And they didn't even have to announce it by name; they only had to announce "a more powerful GPU BTO option coming in november" - that's all they had to do - and every decent company that has decent business conduct does so.

What dose a close relationship have to do with announcing another companies unreleased products?
[doublepost=1541108037][/doublepost]Why would Apple release new laptops, then say, don't buy these wait 4 months as better ones will be coming.

 

[Ploki]

What dose a close relationship have to do with announcing another companies unreleased products?
[doublepost=1541108037][/doublepost]Why would Apple release new laptops, then say, don't buy these wait 4 months as better ones will be coming.

Because
- not everyone would buy an expensive GPU BTO option, not everyone even bought the 560X option, just as not everyone got an i9 CPU and 32GB of RAM.

- they announced iMac Pro's and literally said "you can't buy them for half a year"

And they JUST DID THAT.
THEY SAID "don't buy these wait two weeks"
And people who don't need better GPU options will still buy them.

Nothing what you said makes any sense.

 

[MacNut]

Because
- not everyone would buy an expensive GPU BTO option, not everyone even bought the 560X option, just as not everyone got an i9 CPU and 32GB of RAM.

- they announced iMac Pro's and literally said "you can't buy them for half a year"

And they JUST DID THAT.
THEY SAID "don't buy these wait two weeks"
And people who don't need better GPU options will still buy them.

Nothing what you said makes any sense.

They announced because the iMac Pro's were not ready to be sold. The MacBook Pro's were ready to be sold so why should Apple hold off on them?

 

[Ploki]

They announced because the iMac Pro's were not ready to be sold. The MacBook Pro's were ready to be sold so why should Apple hold off on them?

Well obviously they weren't ready to be sold with Vega chips.

By your logic, why did they announce it two days ago if they aren't ready to ship!?

They literally picked an arbitrary date for when to announce Vega, because they sure as hell didn't announce it on the day it was ready to be shipped with.

and again.
They could've sold everything except "better gpu BTO option"

 

[MacNut]

Well obviously they weren't ready to be sold with Vega chips.

By your logic, why did they announce it two days ago if they aren't ready to ship!?

They literally picked an arbitrary date for when to announce Vega, because they sure as hell didn't announce it on the day it was ready to be shipped with.

So now Apple needs to delay their big product announcement because one chip isn't ready to ship right away? So The iPad Pro's and MacBook Air needed to be put on hold until these chips were ready to be sold?

 

[Ploki]

So now Apple needs to delay their big product announcement because one chip isn't ready to ship right away? So The iPad Pro's and MacBook Air needed to be put on hold until these chips were ready to be sold?

Lol.

So wait let me get that straight:

They announced because the iMac Pro's were not ready to be sold. The MacBook Pro's were ready to be sold so why should Apple hold off on them?

So now Apple needs to delay their big product announcement because one chip isn't ready to ship right away? So The iPad Pro's and MacBook Air needed to be put on hold until these chips were ready to be sold?

once again, slowly:
I I'm complaining because they did not announce that the MacBook Pro's are going to be available with a better expensive BTO GPU option. Most of sold MacBook (Pro's) are not bto.

You are arguing that apple was right to announce GPU's 14 days early (although they aren't ready to ship) yet I'm not right because I said they didn't announce it couple of months early (also not ready to ship)

You are literally arguing against me on a basis of FEW MONTHS. That's your ONLY argument.

 

[MacNut]

Lol.

So wait let me get that straight:




once again, slowly:
I I'm complaining because they did not announce that the MacBook Pro's are going to be available with a better expensive BTO GPU option. Most of sold MacBook (Pro's) are not bto.

You are complaining because Apple did not break protocol with a hardware partner and announce against their wishes that there might be a new chip ready if the manufacturing process doesn't his any delays or problems.

 

[Ploki]

You are complaining because Apple did not break protocol with a hardware partner and announce against their wishes that there might be a new chip ready if the manufacturing process doesn't his any delays or problems.

Whatever 😀
Please cite and quote me teh protocol apple would've broken if they said "dGPU comoing in november"

They didn't need to break any protocol - certainly any you are aware of, so you7re just pulling it out of your behind right now.

Apple announced a white iphone4 that never even happened, never stopped them before - i think an expensive GPU BTO option is much less economically risky than a white. god. damn. iphone.

The laptops that shipped had horrid throttling issues.
The dGPU chips they shipped with are 2 years old and many people weren't happy with the option but wanted to upgrade because they're locked into the apple ecosystem.

The release was botched, and customers have the right to complain for a botched release - it's a flagship laptop targeted at professionals, not a playstation

 

[MacNut]

Whatever 😀

Apple announced a white iphone4 that never even happened, never stopped them before - i think an expensive GPU BTO option is much less economically risky than a white. god. damn. iphone.

The laptops that shipped had horrid throttling issues.
The dGPU chips they shipped with are 2 years old and many people weren't happy with the option but wanted to upgrade because they're locked into the apple ecosystem.

The release was botched, and customers have the right to complain for a botched release - it's a flagship laptop targeted at professionals, not a playstation

You should know as well as anybody that Apple gave up on the Pro market year ago, yet you still bought a new machine expecting pro results. Return your Pro and buy a high end Windows machine that has actual ports and a high end graphics card.

 

[Ploki]

You should know as well as anybody that Apple gave up on the Pro market year ago, yet you still bought a new machine expecting pro results. Return your Pro and buy a high end Windows machine that has actual ports and a high end graphics card.

Finally we agree on something.

Yeah I'm trying to do just that.

 

[deadworlds]

Finally we agree on something.

Yeah I'm trying to do just that.

Or alternativly, have your mac serviced (fixed), sell it, and buy something else.

 

[Ploki]

Or alternativly, have your mac serviced (fixed), sell it, and buy something else.

I shouldn't have to fix something that was broken when i bought it just to I am able to sell it and lose money on it.

When you buy professional products for a high price you buy a service with it.

I bought a ROLI Seaboard Rise for 800€. After 3 months, it developed a glitch. I sent it back, they replaced it no questions asked.

I bought a ****-ton of their products after because I know i can rely on them either working or them making it work.

I bought a 350€ caldigit ts3+ dock. The most expensive of all TB3 docks. It made noises. Sent it back to them, after 10 days, they said their testing equipment is out and they're just gonna send me a replacement right away.

Sure as hell I'm buying a caldigit Thunderbolt4 dock.

When you buy a professional premium machine you are also paying for superior premium support.

Right now, I paid for a 5,3k barely working machine with **** support.

When i buy audio software and they release something new "out of the blue" they always offer either moneyback or replacements, or at least discount upgrades.


What Apple is doing is not how professional companies conduct business.

edit2:
btw i just noticed aluminum on one of the ports is chafed. It's chafed. On a new machine.

I didn't chafe it because I've literally been working on the laptop with cotton gloves because I'm so afraid to damage it because it was so expensive and i couldn't have chafed it there anyway unless deliberately doing it with a scalpel, which i didn't.

You can bet this wouldn't bother me if computer otherwise worked fine.

 

[ashcairo]

Hey mate, totally agree with you some notice should have been given at launch like their did with other professional machines, especially as they would of been privy to their internal roadmap for months in advance. At the moment though we don't know what the situation is, but on their marketing pages it says that they consume lower power, which coincides with the reports of these machines excessively overheat with the current 8th gen/5xx combo. It's pretty unprecedented for Apple to rush out 2 releases in succession like this. So something is very suspect.

I don't know what the resolution for you could be, but I do know a couple of people who managed to get refunds, one by getting a sympathetic support person on the line and granting them a full refund, and another who went into a store and the manager granted them store credit - after a bit of negotiation. Note these are people who go their Macs in August.

My personal experience hasn't been sympathetic, but none of their support people I had spoken to actually knew about the new GPUs, so your mileage may vary as higher profile customers find out and complain.

 

[Painter2002]

It’s actually not a common practice for something to get updated after a few months, I’d bet most companies hold off putting features in early to avoid this very situation.

For example, if I bought the new Air today and 2 months down the line it got a 15w Whiskey Lake option, well colour me angry.

You’ll never see this happening with iPhones or pretty much any Apple product, this is probably a first!

Usually updates are kind of expected after around a year I think, so I do get OP’s frustration.

Well let’s consider the alternative, Apple waits until 2019 to include the new updated feature like they do on the other devices like iPhones and iPads. Sure it’s a first, but maybe there was a logistics reason for them not being able to release the 2018 MBP with the Vega chips on launch.

In a way Apple is screwed wither way. They get dissed for not releasing new product on a pro level device, or they release it when they are able and early adopters get upset because they didn’t have that option.

Honesty, technology is always changing and there will always be updates that make your computer less “worthy” than the what’s available at any given moment. Sorry to say, but that’s reality. And also on that reality, there are a lot more things we have to worry about in this world than a company releasing a new feature out of schedule.

 

[richinaus]

Whatever 😀
Please cite and quote me teh protocol apple would've broken if they said "dGPU comoing in november"

They didn't need to break any protocol - certainly any you are aware of, so you7re just pulling it out of your behind right now.

Apple announced a white iphone4 that never even happened, never stopped them before - i think an expensive GPU BTO option is much less economically risky than a white. god. damn. iphone.

The laptops that shipped had horrid throttling issues.
The dGPU chips they shipped with are 2 years old and many people weren't happy with the option but wanted to upgrade because they're locked into the apple ecosystem.

The release was botched, and customers have the right to complain for a botched release - it's a flagship laptop targeted at professionals, not a playstation

you are right.
However, having read up on what was coming up I was surprised when they were originally announced not to have Vega and so made the assumption that AMD simply did not have them available at that time.
If Apple hadn't released the mid 2018 MBP everyone on here would be complaining that Apple were behind in CPU's and they don't care about pro's anymore. So they released it.

I have held off buying a MBP simply because I could and was waiting for the Vega GPU as it effects my workflow. Now that it is coming, I will make my purchase. I can say though I am a little surprised they did announce this but at the same time I am glad they are. It keeps the computers relevant rather than holding off some 8 months to the next release cycle.

for those complaining, you knew what you were buying and as others have said it doesnt change what you have. In addition, if the GPU was a big deal to you [like it is to me] you would have either bought a windows laptop, waited like I have or just accepted egpu solutions.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Your 2012 went down with great taste. An honorable ending.

LOL I had my own personalised Millennium Hogshead (360 Bottles) I put down with some friends in 1990, last remaining bottle found by my sister in my late mothers cocktail cabinet :-

 

[Ploki]

you are right.
However, having read up on what was coming up I was surprised when they were originally announced not to have Vega and so made the assumption that AMD simply did not have them available at that time.
If Apple hadn't released the mid 2018 MBP everyone on here would be complaining that Apple were behind in CPU's and they don't care about pro's anymore. So they released it.

I have held off buying a MBP simply because I could and was waiting for the Vega GPU as it effects my workflow. Now that it is coming, I will make my purchase. I can say though I am a little surprised they did announce this but at the same time I am glad they are. It keeps the computers relevant rather than holding off some 8 months to the next release cycle.

for those complaining, you knew what you were buying and as others have said it doesnt change what you have. In addition, if the GPU was a big deal to you [like it is to me] you would have either bought a windows laptop, waited like I have or just accepted egpu solutions.

It's not uncommon for apple to announce professional products they can't ship (nor for any other company).

My laptop was 2012. I waited for 2 years to get a significantly better option than 2012 retina, i would have waited 2 more months if i knew it was coming in this iteration.

And i will reiterate - I started fixing one of the issues 13 days into having a laptop. now its almost a month later and its still not working while there's a new BTO announced.

Nobody said they should hold them off, they knew it was coming before 30th of October. They could've released a statement before. They could've released a statement as the computers were first announced.

Fwiw, kernel panics, speaker crackling and keyboard issues still aren't 100% fixed. I have audio dropouts and keyboard issues. Also I have an (apparently) rare condition of a flickering screen. No kernel panics. Be cautious and test it out thoroughly before it's too late - return if it has an issue, i didn't and wanted to fix it via Apple Support and am now stuck with a semi-working piece of outdated garbage for 5 grand

 

[Ma2k5]

Well let’s consider the alternative, Apple waits until 2019 to include the new updated feature like they do on the other devices like iPhones and iPads. Sure it’s a first, but maybe there was a logistics reason for them not being able to release the 2018 MBP with the Vega chips on launch.

In a way Apple is screwed wither way. They get dissed for not releasing new product on a pro level device, or they release it when they are able and early adopters get upset because they didn’t have that option.

Honesty, technology is always changing and there will always be updates that make your computer less “worthy” than the what’s available at any given moment. Sorry to say, but that’s reality. And also on that reality, there are a lot more things we have to worry about in this world than a company releasing a new feature out of schedule.

You say technology is always changing, but I don’t remember Apple ever doing that before - which would mean there is a certain customer expectation, which occurred here. Not sure why you are sorry and not sure you really understood my point.

My view is that it isn’t to be unexpected that people will be quite unhappy with this announcement. I don’t need an explanation of how tech is always changing, I know that. I just think some of the posts attacking people for being upset were wrong.

 

[leman]

Are you seriously implying apple doesn't have a close relationship and deals with AMD?
And they didn't even have to announce it by name; they only had to announce "a more powerful GPU BTO option coming in november" - that's all they had to do - and every decent company that has decent business conduct does so.

What decent business do you know that announces future updates half a year ahead of time? Most they do is announce unreleased products few months before to build up hype and prevent people from buying something else. Besides, AMD has announced mobile Vega back in January, and it was certain that it would come to the MBP.

 

[Ma2k5]

What decent business do you know that announces future updates half a year ahead of time? Most they do is announce unreleased products few months before to build up hype and prevent people from buying something else. Besides, AMD has announced mobile Vega back in January, and it was certain that it would come to the MBP.

I agree that Apple can't announce the dGPU on behalf of AMD 100%. I do also think that people expected this years refresh to have included the Vega chips in summer (if you go by the Waiting for 2018 thread) - they weren't included in the end - but no one I think expected it will be coming this "soon".

If I told you guys 2 weeks ago "Guys, do you think maybe this year they would update the MacBook Pro with Vega chips", if we are honest, all of us would have said no way. It is just how we are accustomed to release cycles by Apple and other manufacturers across all product lines. In fact, some people thought this was just a rumour and dismissed it when they heard about it because it was such an unlikely thing to occur - and when they saw it on the Apple site, were absolutely shocked.

It has however happened, I just think it is understandable that some people would be annoyed because Apple did something they usually don't do. I would if I had bought one a month or two ago.

If Apple had say added some Vega dGPU's next summer and the OP had complained, I think I would have then branded him as out of the loop and having no real grounds for complaint/being upset.

Don't mistake this to say they should have delayed it till next summer (some companies may have done so to avoid this situation however), I am just saying the OP is right to be upset.

 

[leman]

but I don’t remember Apple ever doing that before - which would mean there is a certain customer expectation, which occurred here.

Two updates per year was how Apple operated just few years ago. This changed due to stagnating innovation in semiconductor tech. Which brings me to the next point...

You say technology is always changing

I don't think the issue is that tech is always changing. The issue is that we are right now at the border of what is physically possible which makes tech changes very difficult to predict. Intel, one of the most advanced and experienced semiconductor companies can't get the 10mn working for years now. New Nvidia chips disintegrate after few days. Massive delays and low yields are pretty much a normal occurrence.

I think it's beyond doubt that Vega Pro 16 and 20 were supposed to be standard GPUs in the 2018 MBP refresh. AMD has announced mobile Vega at CES in January, and they were supposed to start shipping soon. But then something went wrong. Either way, it seems that the plans didn't work out. Appel waited as long as they realistically could, but they had to bring out the new MBP amidst rising complains due to lack of updates. Now, 5 months later it seems that AMD did manage to get mobile Vega going, but not really. I guess the yields are so low and the price is so high, that Apple is not even adding them as default options. Probably sometimes next year they will become standard, as the yields improve. But I won't expect any new AMD mobile GPU next year.

As things are, the only way how Apple could make the complainers happy is by skipping Vega this year altogether and simply use it next year. But this would be quite dumb as well. I am all for giving customers access to new tech as soon as its available. And contrary to what Ploki claims, promising new technology before its market ready is one of the most idiotic thing one can do. Many companies went out of business because of that.

 

[Ma2k5]

Two updates per year was how Apple operated just few years ago. This changed due to stagnating innovation in semiconductor tech. Which brings me to the next point...



I don't think the issue is that tech is always changing. The issue is that we are right now at the border of what is physically possible which makes tech changes very difficult to predict. Intel, one of the most advanced and experienced semiconductor companies can't get the 10mn working for years now. New Nvidia chips disintegrate after few days. Massive delays and low yields are pretty much a normal occurrence.

I think it's beyond doubt that Vega Pro 16 and 20 were supposed to be standard GPUs in the 2018 MBP refresh. AMD has announced mobile Vega at CES in January, and they were supposed to start shipping soon. But then something went wrong. Either way, it seems that the plans didn't work out. Appel waited as long as they realistically could, but they had to bring out the new MBP amidst rising complains due to lack of updates. Now, 5 months later it seems that AMD did manage to get mobile Vega going, but not really. I guess the yields are so low and the price is so high, that Apple is not even adding them as default options. Probably sometimes next year they will become standard, as the yields improve. But I won't expect any new AMD mobile GPU next year.

As things are, the only way how Apple could make the complainers happy is by skipping Vega this year altogether and simply use it next year. But this would be quite dumb as well. I am all for giving customers access to new tech as soon as its available. And contrary to what Ploki claims, promising new technology before its market ready is one of the most idiotic thing one can do. Many companies went out of business because of that.

Seeing as Vega was announced in January, do you think it could have been possible that Apple could have indicated "AMD Vega GPU options will be available Fall 2018", or just skip the ETA altogether on the buying page - or do you think this will put off too many purchasers.

 

[D.T.]

Hey, I just passed some guy in the hallway, he was mumbling something about Apple and GPUs, he kicked over a trash can, said something about throwing a laptop in the lake behind the building ...

I’m not talking about Apple’s inclusion of them, I’m asking if these were available to *anyone

Yeah, I'm with you, I was also wondering about the timeline (design/availability/use), it's not typical scenario with Apple.

You have the right to be pissed at whatever you want. You can be pissed off that it's raining if you like.

Thanks for the authorization. I'm a little pissed I'm going to have to re-heat this coffee. Again! Grrr! 😀

 

[leman]

Seeing as Vega was announced in January, do you think it could have been possible that Apple could have indicated "AMD Vega GPU options will be available Fall 2018", or just skip the ETA altogether on the buying page - or do you think this will put off too many purchasers.

Do you really think they knew by July that the GPUs will be available in fall? What if they would have said that but couldn't keep that estimate for whatever reason? The backlash from that would have been much worse...

So... imagine the following press release: "We plan to ship AMD Vega CPUs in our MacBook Pro at some point in the future. Probably in autumn, or maybe in early 2019. We don't know yet what quantities will be available and how much it would cost. We also don't really know much how those chips will perform. But yeh, they'd be great! So don't buy the MBP now, don't tell us we didn't warn you!". Probably accompanied by "Real next-gen Intel CPUs available next year! Maybe!" 😉

 

[Ma2k5]

Do you really think they knew by July that the GPUs will be available in fall? What if they would have said that but couldn't keep that estimate for whatever reason? The backlash from that would have been much worse...

So... imagine the following press release: "We plan to ship AMD Vega CPUs in our MacBook Pro at some point in the future. Probably in autumn, or maybe in early 2019. We don't know yet what quantities will be available and how much it would cost. We also don't really know much how those chips will perform. But yeh, they'd be great! So don't buy the MBP now, don't tell us we didn't warn you!". Probably accompanied by "Real next-gen Intel CPUs available next year! Maybe!" 😉

It is very likely they had strong knowledge as to when they would be available by July. It wouldn’t have been the disaster you make it out to be if they said “ETA in Fall” or similar.

Secondly, Apple has previously missed its ETA’s but it doesn’t stop them from still giving ETA. ETA is just that, “estimated”, and sometimes it doesn’t work out (Air Power and the HomePod come to mind recently).

Thirdly, Apple have managed to just release an Air with a chip none of us knew that existed nor was on any Intel site until after release. They have very close working relationships with vendors clearly.