MP All Models SOLVED: 8k Displays Running on Mac Pro? Any? What Video cards would work that support 8k HDMI 2.1/Displayport 1.4/2.0 displays on Mac Pro? YES you can

[ZombiePhysicist]

Thank you so much @joevt that is super helpful. Sorry for the lag. Have people guests and work nabbing at my time. Hopefully get to a bunch of this in the next day or two.

Everything I asked from @ZombiePhysicist:
- Tests in Windows to see if 8K60 works from HDMI and from DisplayPort adapter.

BTW, I did do a test with just the HDMI2.1 cable from the 6900HDMI port to the TV under windows, and it did show as 8k60hz. I don't recall what the color depth settings were, but it seemed to be running full tilt with zero hassle. I thought I shared the screen shot of it, but I see I only shared it with the Dconn cable. Will do.

- AGDCDiagnose for the TV connected to HDMI and another for the TV connected to each DisplayPort adapter #93
- A screenshot of the Display Information tab in SwitchResX for each connection type. Override the frequency ranges if they're not at least 200Hz, 400kHz, 2400MHz.
- Custom timings in SwitchResX for 4K120, 5K30, 5K60, 6K30, 6K60, 8K30, 8K60 #99 - #109
- The log show commands of #140 or #180 with grep command from #182
- The defaults write command to change default DSC bpp #172 then redo log show with this setting.
- The AllRez command after each change in connection or settings #177

Is HDR possible with the Sabrent in macOS? If not, then you can send an e-mail to Sabrent tech support to get a firmware update like the one that solves the same problem for the CAC-1085 which has the same chip.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Well... this is overwhelming unfortunately. I don't know what AGDCDiagnose is, I don't even know the existence of SwitchResX since the other day, I don't know how to use terminal commands. I'm feeling like an idiot, believe me, I don't think I'll be able to give this kind of help... basically out of reach for me. I'm sorry, really sorry... maybe I should just shut up and wait for you guys to came to some conclusion?

If you go back through this thread and read in detail, @joevt gave super detailed instructions how to do AGD dumps and all the other things. He's angle level of patient with me, as most of this is new to me too. It takes some time to follow it when youre new, but is doable. It's a bit of a time sink when you're a newbie like I am, but I appreciate his tutelage. But agree, it's a bit of a deep dive.

 

[joevt]

I'm not sure. I attached the file there, and I seem to have the custom resolutions shown in the tab but they have become inactive. I'm also going to switch to the Sabrent USBc adapter for now, since it seems to have DSC, and we might as well shoot for that brass ring.

I think I missed replying to this post. That override file has the product id 29012 (7154 hex) from your first 3 AGDCDiagnose. That EDID does not have the HDMI VRR info that the Cable Matters test has or the AMD FreeSync VSDB that the Sabrent and Cable Matters tests have. So you should probably get a new file. I don't know if it would be better to start with a EDID from Sabrent or Cable Matters or HDMI. You haven't sent an AGDCDiagnose for the HDMI 2.1 connection using the new TV settings that were used with the Sabrent and Cable Matters adapters. It may be that we'll want to make some manual edits to the EDID (that SwitchResX can't do) depending on what's in the EDID for the HDMI connection.

I assume I do that by deleting the custom resolutions in the SwitchResX and re-entering. Do I re-enter with the same 8k settings we successfully used before, or are there variations shown in the ADC dump file that I need to use?

There's a Restore Factory Defaults button which might do the job. Deleting the override file should also do it (do this while SwitchResX app is not running to be safe and with the TV disconnected).
It may be that reseting factory defaults or deleting the override file does not remove custom timings from the SwitchResX UI since SwitchResX saves a copy of those outside the overrides file in its own preferences file. That's ok. It may save time reentering the timings.

At the least, enter the 8K60 CVT-RB mode. I think it's safe to say that 5K and 6K modes won't work, but you can enter those as well. They won't complicate our 8K testing. They are useful for testing the scalar of the TV for non-standard-resolutions (maybe the scalar only does modes smaller than 4K? you can try entering something like 3200x1800). The various 4K timings are useful for testing non-standard refresh rates.

I guess I can roam around the Sabrent site and see if I can find a firmware update. Right now, I kind of dont care about HDR and am curious to see if we can just get 8k to work, it's a 2ndary "nice to have" feature IMO. But I will look.

Right. But if there's a problem with HDR, then maybe a firmware that fixes that would also fix other things?

So I see your dwrite post 172 here. But not sure I know what the log show command is, do you mean through windows per this post 152 using the Debug message, or more likely per this post 140?

Two different things.
1) "Debug message" is the button in the firmware updater that's in your picture at #151 It may have interesting info about the Cable Matters adapter.

2) The log show command in #140 is used to show what macOS does when the display is connected. It will tell us why it rejects some modes or when it's adding DSC modes.

Ok, do I dump via the above post 140 method or your attached utility?

Two different things. Do all the things.

The AllRez utility dumps easily accessible info about timing modes that macOS has accepted. I am wondering if it shows anything about the DSC modes or if that info is hidden and requires more digging to access. I think there's some interesting stuff in there that SwitchResX should show to the user - such as whether the mode is using RGB, 444, 422, 420 or if the output bpc is 8 or 10. One thing I just learned is that any mode that supports HDR gets a second mode in the list with the HDR info (colorimetry BT2020 instead of BT709 or whatever and dynamic range HDR10 instead of SDR).

 

[joevt]

Updated the AllRez command at #177

 

[hardwickj]

@joevt do we know of any non-Apple displays that correctly uses DSC via DisplayPort in macOS? I'd assume some of these high refresh rate monitors must be doing so otherwise there'd be more noise regarding it.

 

[joevt]

@joevt do we know of any non-Apple displays that correctly uses DSC via DisplayPort in macOS? I'd assume some of these high refresh rate monitors must be doing so otherwise there'd be more noise regarding it.

I don't know or recall.

Older high refresh rate displays could use 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to reduce bpp down to 20 (4:2:2 10bpc), 16 (4:2:2 8bpc), 15 (4:2:0 10bpc), or 12 (4:2:0 8bpc) bpp to get higher refresh rates.
Newer high refresh rate monitors with sufficiently high resolution will use DSC instead of chroma subsampling. DisplayPort 1.4 can do 4K95 10bpc or 4K120 8bpc or 1440p200 10bpc or 1440p250 8bpc all without DSC.

We can test DSC using other devices.

USB-C docks and adapters usually only have two lanes of HBR3 because the other two lanes are used for USB 3.x transmit and receive signals. Some displays have a similar limitation. 4K60 8bpc 533MHz can be done without DSC in these cases. Some of these displays/docks/adapters, such as the Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter or the CalDigit SOHO support DSC so they could get 4K 8bpc 594MHz (HDMI) or 4K60 10bpc 533MHz (CVT-RB) if the OS allows it.

Some USB-C displays/docks have a switch to reduce USB to USB 2.0 speed to allow 4 lanes of DisplayPort. Some displays/docks only do USB 2.0 so they always have four lanes of DisplayPort and probably don't require or support DSC. But DSC would be useful in any case for high refresh rate or if they have an MST Hub for multiple displays or for chaining displays.

The Apple Pro Display XDR does DSC in order to support USB 3.0 write speed (otherwise it would be reduced to USB 2.0 write speed).
Apple uses 12bpp for DSC. I haven't seen anyone try overriding that to 8bpp #172 . I suppose I'll give it a try with the adapters I have.

Like I mentioned above, there's a problem if macOS chooses not to allow DSC. I remember I did tests with the adapters I have where DSC worked in Catalina but not in Big Sur. I don't know if Monterey has fixed things. I'll have to redo my tests to be sure. The CalDigit SOHO uses a DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub. I also have an HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 (has internal MST Hub) and a Delock 87737 MST hub.

MacOS doesn't support MST for multiple displays but can use the MST hub's DisplayPort conversion features (convert two lanes of HBR3 input with DSC to four lanes of HBR3 or HBR2 with DSC pass thru or with DSC decompression). So I should be able to get DSC functionality by connecting any of the above adapters or MST hubs to the USB-C port of a W5700 - except for the Delock (which is a dedicated MST Hub) unless I find a why to restrict the input to lower the link rate or number of lanes - the latter could be easy with a modified cable. With just one lane of HBR3, DSC@12bpp can allow 4K60 533MHz.

 

[hardwickj]

It feels like display manufacturers aren't willing to make another proper 8k monitor if 8k monitors only work in Windows (while most creatives work on MacOS). Meanwhile Apple won't put any effort into supporting 8k monitors because there effectively are none. It's a chicken or the egg problem.

I'm inclined to believe that if LG released a 36" 8k w/ DSC Thunderbolt/USB-C Ultrafine model monitor tomorrow effectively running 4k Retina at Apple's preferred 220PPI, Apple would end up supporting it relatively quickly. Instead all we're left with is Dell's UP3218K, and for whatever reason I cannot understand, Apple clearly has no interest in supporting MST which would enable that to work correctly.

I suspect we're stuck waiting for Apple to release their own 8k, and only then will we see viable alternatives start to crop up. My only other hope is that with the recent increase in popularity of multi-monitor setups, Apple finally adds MST support which would allow the UP3218K to work correctly. Unfortunately that increase in popularity is being driven by gamers, and Apple has zero interest in that segment as well.

 

[PieroPontra]

It feels like display manufacturers aren't willing to make another proper 8k monitor if 8k monitors only work in Windows (while most creatives work on MacOS). Meanwhile Apple won't put any effort into supporting 8k monitors because there effectively are none. It's a chicken or the egg problem.

I'm inclined to believe that if LG released a 36" 8k w/ DSC Thunderbolt/USB-C Ultrafine model monitor tomorrow effectively running 4k Retina at Apple's preferred 220PPI, Apple would end up supporting it relatively quickly. Instead all we're left with is Dell's UP3218K, and for whatever reason I cannot understand, Apple clearly has no interest in supporting MST which would enable that to work correctly.

I suspect we're stuck waiting for Apple to release their own 8k, and only then will we see viable alternatives start to crop up. My only other hope is that with the recent increase in popularity of multi-monitor setups, Apple finally adds MST support which would allow the UP3218K to work correctly. Unfortunately that increase in popularity is being driven by gamers, and Apple has zero interest in that segment as well.

I substantially agree with you... and I'm switching back to 3 x 32" 4K monitors. Even if a big giant sharp screen is cool as hell, I noticed that (a part from Apple's unwilling to support it) I'm constantly moving windows I use at the center of the screen because a 55" in 16:9 is too tall to be comfortable. With 3 x 32" you end up having a sort of "curved" ultrawide in 3 separate spaces... which is actually wider than a 8K 55" 16:9 and more real estate 4K*3=11520*2160 at 140ish ppi

 

[hardwickj]

I'm still half tempted to pick up a UP3218K because writing code on 4k Retina, even if only at 30hz, is still completely doable and would look crisp as hell. I'm sitting here writing this reply on my U2720Q running at 30hz to get a feel for it. Not too bad if you don't have to use the mouse ?

@joevt I took a look at some of Intel's development boards and watched that video you linked to me regarding them a few months back. It sounded feasible to get some sort of DP 1.4 DSC input to dual non-DSC DP 1.4 output device working, but then I saw the price tag on that hardware and said F that...

 

[Pressure]

I'm still half tempted to pick up a UP3218K because writing code on 4k Retina, even if only at 30hz, is still completely doable and would look crisp as hell. I'm sitting here writing this reply on my U2720Q running at 30hz to get a feel for it. Not too bad if you don't have to use the mouse ?

@joevt I took a look at some of Intel's development boards and watched that video you linked to me regarding them a few months back. It sounded feasible to get some sort of DP 1.4 DSC input to dual non-DSC DP 1.4 output device working, but then I saw the price tag on that hardware and said F that...

You could also just plug both cables in and get two 3840x4320 screens side by side at 60Hz.

 

[hardwickj]

You could also just plug both cables in and get two 3840x4320 screens side by side at 60Hz.

Yea, I thought about that, but it breaks going full screen. When I'm doing code reviews, I prefer to use a diff-view which greatly benefits from having the full width.

 

[hardwickj]

@Pressure is that how you use it? Do you experience any other issues besides not going full-screen?

 

[mikas]

Hope this is not going off-topic too much..

If you uncheck Mission Control: Displays have separate spaces, you can have kind of a full screen manually. Your app windows can span through both displays, which in this case are on the same LCD panel, so no gap in between. No hairline even, no nothing, they act like one screen in this respect.

You will loose the menu bar from your secondary display though in this mode.
If you go full screen with the fullscreen button, it won't span through displays, it will take only one screen (please see pic, manually dragging full screen above, clicking full screen button below).

This is on Dell 5K2K U4021QW, 2560x2160 + 2560x2160, dual D500.
I could not get full 5K with D500, so I did it with 2 cables and split screen mode.

 

[joevt]

I could not get full 5K with D500, so I did it with 2 cables and split screen mode.

Right. Old AMD GPUs have weird artifacts when doing > 4096 width with a non-tiled display. Although macOS can't do 4K144 or 8K60 tiled displays, I wonder if it could do 5Kx1440 tiled displays like it can for 5Kx2880 tiled displays? I don't think 5Kx1440 tiled displays exist but maybe you can turn a 5Kx1440 display that supports PBP into a tiled display by modifying the EDIDs. To do that would require a Lilu patch to make both sides appear as a tile or a method to modify the EDID from the displays (there's plenty of devices that can do this for DVI/HDMI but not sure about DisplayPort). Using the normal macOS overrides would not be sufficient since each connection needs a different EDID.

But wait, you're talking about the Dell 5K2K. Doesn't that have a tiled mode already? Does it have a DisplayPort 1.2 mode? Looking at the manual, it appears there is no tiled mode or DisplayPort 1.2 mode so I would go back to trying to modify the EDIDs.

The LG 5K2K display had a single tile mode (DisplayPort 1.4) and a dual tile mode via Thunderbolt (two DisplayPort 1.2 connections). This wouldn't work for you because the MacPro6,1 is limited to Thunderbolt 2 (unless it was possible to do dual HBR links to get tiled 5K30 - not likely).

 

[Pressure]

Yea, I thought about that, but it breaks going full screen. When I'm doing code reviews, I prefer to use a diff-view which greatly benefits from having the full width.

Applications can span both sides of the screen, so not sure what the issue is unless you specifically need to take an application in full screen mode ??‍♂️

Just like @mikas showed above it can span the entire monitor if you uncheck "displays have separate spaces".

 

[mikas]

^^ I couldn't find any tiled modes from on screen menus either. Inputs are 2x HDMI's and DP and TB ports. I use DP + TB now with Apple two way TB2-TB3 adapter. It acts almost like one screen to me as you can see in my above post.

There is PbP mode of 50/50 like in my screenshots, and 80/20 and 75/25 too. That would give me some exotic resolutions to use beside each other, like:
80/20: 4096x2160 beside 1024x2160
75/25: 3840x2160 beside 1280x2160

I kind of like this one I use now, 50/50: 2560x2160 beside 2560x2160

I am just thinking that an 8K display could be used like this and it would be allright, but as witnessed in this thread earlier too, televisions don't have PbP, mostly only PiP, which in my opinion is pretty much useless for computer usage. Like the 8 modes with my display at the bottom of the list (see photo below, don't mind the menu transparency and see through text).

 

[mikas]

This thing is kind of versatile. I can use the other side of the display in hidpi mode (is this called hidpi?) if I want to.

screenshot of display settings, left is downscaled from native 3840x2160 to 3200x1800. Right side is native 1280x2160. About this Mac shows them in wrong order left/right-wise.

Photo of the PbP 75/25 activated display, with different dpi/ppi on either side. Same Safari page side by side in real size (CMD-0).

 

[Arvine]

Ok, to get 8k to work on an HDMI based TV/monitor, I was successful with the following equipment:​

(4) Use this CableDeconn DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 cable (firmware version 6.03.146)

I have ordered the CableDeconn Dp 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adapter. I will try to replicate ZombiePhysicist‘s success With 8K.

 

[hardwickj]

@joevt @ZombiePhysicist I took the liberty to link to your work in this thread over at

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS8K/comments/shehys

. I just wanted a simple place to provide any monthly or bi-monthly updates on 8k related news for MacOS. If I've left out anything obvious, feel free to mention it.

 

[frisbfreek]

Sooo. I was totally wrong about dithering and text and image quality. After futzing around trying to find the service mode, which I still cannot find/figure out, I found how to get into game mode.

The UI on the Samsung is total garbage and non intuitive.

Anyway, after you get it into game mode (thank you @Arvine). NO DITHERING. Also, the text looks really great. I think I can still kind of see the slight banding below text, but it is sooooo slight as to be a non issue. This thing works GREAT as a monitor. MAN I AM SO PSYCHED!

Now I do suspect the LG monitor might even be better. But I love the cheese grater edges of this monitor and the zero bezel, so the quality is totally fine. I also watched some 8k video from YouTube on this. MIND MELTING! There is no going back. 8k is like getting your first SSD. There is no going back!

Re: dithering, I mentioned this thread to rtings.com and asked them to confirm the game mode workaround on their side. Hopefully they will update the review of the QN900A!

 

[joevt]

I've attached a utility I made to dump some display info.

I've updated the AllRez utility again. It now dumps DisplayPort DPCD info. I added some M1 Mac stuff but haven't added the E-DDC, MCCS, DPCD stuff for them yet.
It seems I can't get DisplayPort Sideband Messages (for communicating with DisplayPort devices that are connected to branch devices - MST hubs) or E-DDC (for getting EDID longer than 256 bytes). For those capabilities, an IOFramebuffer patch is required (using something like Lilu/Whatevergreen).

 

[hardwickj]

I've been trying to get my hands on either someone else's UP3218K or perhaps a damaged (but working) one on Ebay to test out on my M1 Max and glean whatever information I can, but no luck so far. The handful of cheaper priced ones I've found on Ebay did not show the device functioning and the seller was unwilling to show proof of it functioning so I wasn't willing to risk it. I've thrown around the idea of buying new from Dell and then returning, but really don't want that kind of hassle.

I just wish Apple would get off their ass already and release an 8k monitor. It's so stupid they tout being able to edit multiple 8k streams simultaneously, yet you still can't actually SEE an 8k stream on macOS. ?‍♂️

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I've been trying to get my hands on either someone else's UP3218K or perhaps a damaged (but working) one on Ebay to test out on my M1 Max and glean whatever information I can, but no luck so far. The handful of cheaper priced ones I've found on Ebay did not show the device functioning and the seller was unwilling to show proof of it functioning so I wasn't willing to risk it. I've thrown around the idea of buying new from Dell and then returning, but really don't want that kind of hassle.

I just wish Apple would get off their ass already and release an 8k monitor. It's so stupid they tout being able to edit multiple 8k streams simultaneously, yet you still can't actually SEE an 8k stream on macOS. ?‍♂️

I have the new 16" M1max too. I should try it with some of my cables.

Sorry for the lags fellows. Life gets in the way of this. Also, I'm in the midst of building a custom monitor stand for this giant 85" screen, which is taking more time than I'd like. Hopefully get back to it soon.

 

[Adarna]

I have the new 16" M1max too. I should try it with some of my cables.

Sorry for the lags fellows. Life gets in the way of this. Also, I'm in the midst of building a custom monitor stand for this giant 85" screen, which is taking more time than I'd like. Hopefully get back to it soon.

Why do you need 8K?

 

[hardwickj]

Why do you need 8K?

For me personally, 8K allows for 4K Retina. 4K Retina @ 32" would be amazing. @ZombiePhysicist's use case might differ (especially since he's using such a large screen), but let's please not fall down the hole of arguing "you don't need that".