I've notices issues like this on my alienware laptop... not on my 2011 MBP. interesting. I hope it doesn't start.
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Some 2011 MacBook Pros Experiencing GPU Glitches, System Crashes
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Edit:
Having posted the referenced lengthy account of my GPU issues below before I for fairness need to retreat the line of argument that it falls into the same issue category as my MBP and is not the by others faulted Early 2011 model.
My MacBook with the issues described is a:
Retina MacBook Pro Mid 2012 a.k.a.
MacBookPro10,1 Sales# MC975LL/A, Model# A1398, Production week 27-2012
with a discrete NVIDIA GT650M chip.
The issue of a lack of transparancy on HW issues I can nevertheless underline from having an issue-ridden MBP from another prior episode. The (first) Intel MBP 2006 I had in use produced a high pitch whining noise which similarly resulted in 2 mainboard swaps. The time it took until it became an acknowledged issue with service being aware of it was lengthy, and the customer experience then mimicked the one described before.
--------------
having posted my experiences on the issue in the Apple forum I received "You do not have permission to post in this forum.
It appears you're not allowed to view what you requested. You might contact your administrator if you think this is a mistake." within 5 minutes when trying to edit the post.
While this could be a transient issue please find a cross-post here besides one at /.; the only addition is that I would rate the product per se as by a margin better what is out there from others (HW and OS, appliance experience together) and would buy it again. Still, the handling of HW issues and the pretentious ignorance when not acknowledging them is not it.
---
*
I would like to raise a principal issue on how Apple handles these problems having gone through the MBP 2011 GPU issue full cycle twice:
*
in a synopsis I have reason to believe that wide-spread issues such apparently this one are being systematically:
*
(a) not acknowledged,
(b) not communicated in symptoms and resolution within the service/support organization,
(c) only handled reactively by design and
(d) only taken care off in a transparent and proactive way once pressure through too many publicly reported incidences has reached significant proportions as for prior instances such as the buzzing first Intel motherboards that I experienced first hand.*
*
Here are my experiences in 4 acts substantiating this proposition through observations of how my 2 rMBP 2011 cases were handled:
*
Act 1: multi-month "diagnosis" phase
*
- when a rMBP 2011 started to throw graphics-related issues -- first symptoms being frequent _reproducible multi-monitor, hot-plugging triggered crashes October 2012 I:
* searched public information -> no obvious pattern through the google index
* suspecting software then I filed a diligently described bug report against the OS inhttp://bugreport.apple.com
* a week later the bug screeners asked for post-crash sysdiagnose output
* I could provide no sydiagnose dumps though as triggering them post-crash with Shift-Control-Option-Command-Period was not processed by the machine any more. Looking through telling log entries in /var/log/system.log (I am unix-macosx fluent) did not yield cause candidates over weeks.
*
Act 2: Trying to diagnose the issue myself for 4 Months
*
The next 4 months I tried to diagnose the computer's crashes diligently and in the process spending significant time on it.With sometimes several crashes per day with reproducible crashes on monitor hot-plugs at a rate of around 7 out of 10 tries there was plenty of opportunity to try things. Still, I suspected software considering there still was no obvious problem pattern visible through the google index. My interaction with the SW-Dev side of the Apple business did also not hint on hardware as a cause candidate. So besides the obvious of hoping for each OS service dot release to include a fix, I continued trying to find kernel module driver culprits, running HW diagnostics (yes you never know), watching the trigger pattern and for the most part the OS logs. In hindsight there were cues to a GPU issue as freezes appeared more often with GPU-related operations, but hot-plugging remained the only reproducible fault. Fast forward 4 months to the 3rd act.
*
Act 3: 1st motherboard swap
*
Having thoroughly exhausted my options on how to handle sometimes several crashes per day, I at last contacted Apple support. Not wanting to appear that I am looking for quick uninformed chancy HW swap I informed phone support on the issue history including the bug report# logged against the OS. I of course made note of the amount of time I had spent on it already.
*
* asked twice if there is anything in the customer support database(s) on a related issue - negative I heard.
*
The calls left off with the token on me to reinstall again and re-contact if the issue persists. Still, I would rate the handling on part of phone support perfectly right as after all I had just contacted them and the person on the other end of the line clearly did not have more information than what the google index provided to me (or to Apple support maybe as there was a hint that they look for things there too).
*
About 5 weeks later I finally gave up on the progress of getting the notebook's crash proneness resolved and contacted Apple phone support on feeling that pressing a hardware resolution is sensible having _really done everything possible from my side. The again dedicated!! 1st line phone service person on the ticket (where I would rate the phone service response again highly and this is not meant sarcastically) promised to talk to the repair shop if necessary. He even followed-up by email how things are going.
*
Getting a motherboard swap from the repair shop was no self-starter. I had talked the service counter through the multi-month ordeal. Yet, I got the sense that I had to be grateful for them swapping the mother board as the evidence of a HW issue was not water-tight. So I received the rMBP back with a new motherboard - the serial stayed the same, checked/asked - seems to be standard procedure to flash a new board with the previous one. Following the repair graphics related issues persisted, although slightly different, going to act #4.*
*
Act 4: Towards the 2nd motherboard swap
*
The machine showed _fewer (then how do you catgorize the repair?) monitor HDMI/DisplayPort/VGA over DisplayPort hot-swap issues then before, at a rate of maybe one crash every 3 days-they persisted though. I logically? concluded that the issue was software after all. Feeling bad having caused an "unnecessary" mother board swap with an OK board to land in electronics scrap I kept quiet an endured. The sure emergence of a next major release 10.9 made enduring with a hoped for fix bearable. Desolation set in when 10.9 did not resolve the crashes. I am not sure how this would have gone on had the HW not died conscutively.
*
Attaching a 30" Apple Cinema Display with an Apple DisplayPort adapter which had always worked not counting visible HF noise on the dual-link DVI started to fail. First it would not sync every so and so, a few weeks later attaching it and getting a picture failed completely. I cross-tested with other Macbooks and a Mac Pro, with no issue there. Days following loss of the ability to attach the Apple Display the rMBP started to show fails on booting with the built-in display only; it got stuck in the boot processes with too little verbosity in the console messages to be able to tell. Yet again, despite being exceedingly unlikely at that stage I wanted to rule out software and spent time (...) trying to find which was the last OS startup initilization.
*
Act 5: the 2nd swap
*
* Finally, another new symptom showed which made it utterly clear that it is a graphics-path HW issue; booting a rescue system off external media (conclusively ruling out any software cause) brought an audible sound in late boot as for an ok system being rescue booted? but no screen. I brought it to repairs, explaining the clarity of the case and how easy it was to reproduce, and expected a quick turn-around without issues. However, a few days into the repair I was called and asked to provided the purchase receipt. Provided that it was purchased abroad by a relative that was not an easy undertaking. A week into the repair I could provide a level of purchase documentation and the repair shop decided to ask Apple for a motherboard swap authorization (at t+7 calendar days into the repair). I of course provided information about the _long history of problems, the prior swap and for simplicity the repair was logged with the same shop that done the first repair. The Apple response was negative though.
*
* Issue now was that the system was already more than 1 year old. While 2 years extended warranty is statutory law in the EU, the warranty right is against the seller and not the manufacturer. The machine had been bought in Japan.
*
* I recontacted my Apple Service person from the 1st swap. Unfortunately, email bounced and calling in showed that he was not with the company any more. I then went through 1st line phone support again, explaining -- this time with hard facts that it _IS a HW issue. Through the serial number it was quickly triaged (...) to be out of the 1yr manufacturer warranty window. I explained it needing repairs, the reasonableness of the request given the history of the case and so on. 1st level handed it to a 2nd level manager who clearly was authorized to grant repairs which de-jure do not have coverage. Again, the handling was professional. Nevertheless, I was in the pleading role and that when it appeared edgy to go the wrong way for a net of 30 minutes talking to the 1st line staffer and the manager on the phone. When 2nd level hinted she would probably approve, but "first needs to talk to the repair shop just to be correct" I knew I was close to a 2nd repair without having the de-facto total loss of the machine due to replacing a broken motherboard probably not being economical. Following such a path or procedure (?) was perfectly correct. The motherboard was finally swapped for "GPU problems" shortly thereafter (total time for the repair approx. 9 calendar days). The experience left me with a manufacturer to-be-perceived notion that I should be grateful for the free repair. While I stayed cordial in the whole process, the gratitude stayed within the dry limit of having saved a 1.5 yr. old machine from scrapping had the motherboard not been replaced for free.*
Knowing now that many people are affected and surmising that there is an organization within Apple, that having the data -- see Epilogue -- knew all along poses a question. Why were at least the service 1st-and 2nd line, let alone external repair left in the cold information-wise for this problem. I leave it partially to the reader what to make of it.
*
*
Epilogue
*
Again, I want to underline that the cases were handled very well in the scope of the involved people's roles (Apple support 1st and 2nd line, repair shop and possibly development in software ticket screening). In other words, if someone in Apple management reads this and* -- and had I provided the case #s -- the right reaction would NOT be to reprimand the involved employees; they did everything right given the information and probably guidelines given to them, responsively and professionally. Had I rated them on one of the ubiquitous post-contact customer satisfaction surveys, I would have given them a perfect score. So that is not where the problem is.
*
Still, the 2 issues were grossly miss-handled, knowing now that discrete GPU issues in this model type are wide-spread.
*
There is an organization within Apple which with little lag probably clearly sees the data on problem reports and repair incidents around the world. With near certainty, those are being tracked meticulously as substantial costs are involved. They probably have all the lab resources to reproduce and find root-causes, it not alone then with e.g. the GPU manufacturers. If they have more information and see high fault incidents, and are able to extrapolate the numbers of affected machines as it is simple sample to population statistics, what do they do? Apparently, this part of Apple or Apple as such does not proactively act on clearly significant field hardware problems that are affecting very many machines. This is a conjecture based on my experiences above, and please don't sue me on it.*
*
- Cheers,
an early 2011 rMBP owner with 2 motherboard swaps**
Edit:
Having posted the referenced lengthy account of my GPU issues below before I for fairness need to retreat the line of argument that it falls into the same issue category as my MBP and is not the by others faulted Early 2011 model.
My MacBook with the issues described is a:
Retina MacBook Pro Mid 2012 a.k.a.
MacBookPro10,1 Sales# MC975LL/A, Model# A1398, Production week 27-2012
with a discrete NVIDIA GT650M chip.
The issue of a lack of transparancy on HW issues I can nevertheless underline from having an issue-ridden MBP from another prior episode. The (first) Intel MBP 2006 I had in use produced a high pitch whining noise which similarly resulted in 2 mainboard swaps. The time it took until it became an acknowledged issue with service being aware of it was lengthy, and the customer experience then mimicked the one described before.
--------------
having posted my experiences on the issue in the Apple forum I received "You do not have permission to post in this forum.
It appears you're not allowed to view what you requested. You might contact your administrator if you think this is a mistake." within 5 minutes when trying to edit the post.
While this could be a transient issue please find a cross-post here besides one at /.; the only addition is that I would rate the product per se as by a margin better what is out there from others (HW and OS, appliance experience together) and would buy it again. Still, the handling of HW issues and the pretentious ignorance when not acknowledging them is not it.
---
*
I would like to raise a principal issue on how Apple handles these problems having gone through the MBP 2011 GPU issue full cycle twice:
*
in a synopsis I have reason to believe that wide-spread issues such apparently this one are being systematically:
*
(a) not acknowledged,
(b) not communicated in symptoms and resolution within the service/support organization,
(c) only handled reactively by design and
(d) only taken care off in a transparent and proactive way once pressure through too many publicly reported incidences has reached significant proportions as for prior instances such as the buzzing first Intel motherboards that I experienced first hand.*
*
Here are my experiences in 4 acts substantiating this proposition through observations of how my 2 rMBP 2011 cases were handled:
*
Act 1: multi-month "diagnosis" phase
*
- when a rMBP 2011 started to throw graphics-related issues -- first symptoms being frequent _reproducible multi-monitor, hot-plugging triggered crashes October 2012 I:
* searched public information -> no obvious pattern through the google index
* suspecting software then I filed a diligently described bug report against the OS inhttp://bugreport.apple.com
* a week later the bug screeners asked for post-crash sysdiagnose output
* I could provide no sydiagnose dumps though as triggering them post-crash with Shift-Control-Option-Command-Period was not processed by the machine any more. Looking through telling log entries in /var/log/system.log (I am unix-macosx fluent) did not yield cause candidates over weeks.
*
Act 2: Trying to diagnose the issue myself for 4 Months
*
The next 4 months I tried to diagnose the computer's crashes diligently and in the process spending significant time on it.With sometimes several crashes per day with reproducible crashes on monitor hot-plugs at a rate of around 7 out of 10 tries there was plenty of opportunity to try things. Still, I suspected software considering there still was no obvious problem pattern visible through the google index. My interaction with the SW-Dev side of the Apple business did also not hint on hardware as a cause candidate. So besides the obvious of hoping for each OS service dot release to include a fix, I continued trying to find kernel module driver culprits, running HW diagnostics (yes you never know), watching the trigger pattern and for the most part the OS logs. In hindsight there were cues to a GPU issue as freezes appeared more often with GPU-related operations, but hot-plugging remained the only reproducible fault. Fast forward 4 months to the 3rd act.
*
Act 3: 1st motherboard swap
*
Having thoroughly exhausted my options on how to handle sometimes several crashes per day, I at last contacted Apple support. Not wanting to appear that I am looking for quick uninformed chancy HW swap I informed phone support on the issue history including the bug report# logged against the OS. I of course made note of the amount of time I had spent on it already.
*
* asked twice if there is anything in the customer support database(s) on a related issue - negative I heard.
*
The calls left off with the token on me to reinstall again and re-contact if the issue persists. Still, I would rate the handling on part of phone support perfectly right as after all I had just contacted them and the person on the other end of the line clearly did not have more information than what the google index provided to me (or to Apple support maybe as there was a hint that they look for things there too).
*
About 5 weeks later I finally gave up on the progress of getting the notebook's crash proneness resolved and contacted Apple phone support on feeling that pressing a hardware resolution is sensible having _really done everything possible from my side. The again dedicated!! 1st line phone service person on the ticket (where I would rate the phone service response again highly and this is not meant sarcastically) promised to talk to the repair shop if necessary. He even followed-up by email how things are going.
*
Getting a motherboard swap from the repair shop was no self-starter. I had talked the service counter through the multi-month ordeal. Yet, I got the sense that I had to be grateful for them swapping the mother board as the evidence of a HW issue was not water-tight. So I received the rMBP back with a new motherboard - the serial stayed the same, checked/asked - seems to be standard procedure to flash a new board with the previous one. Following the repair graphics related issues persisted, although slightly different, going to act #4.*
*
Act 4: Towards the 2nd motherboard swap
*
The machine showed _fewer (then how do you catgorize the repair?) monitor HDMI/DisplayPort/VGA over DisplayPort hot-swap issues then before, at a rate of maybe one crash every 3 days-they persisted though. I logically? concluded that the issue was software after all. Feeling bad having caused an "unnecessary" mother board swap with an OK board to land in electronics scrap I kept quiet an endured. The sure emergence of a next major release 10.9 made enduring with a hoped for fix bearable. Desolation set in when 10.9 did not resolve the crashes. I am not sure how this would have gone on had the HW not died conscutively.
*
Attaching a 30" Apple Cinema Display with an Apple DisplayPort adapter which had always worked not counting visible HF noise on the dual-link DVI started to fail. First it would not sync every so and so, a few weeks later attaching it and getting a picture failed completely. I cross-tested with other Macbooks and a Mac Pro, with no issue there. Days following loss of the ability to attach the Apple Display the rMBP started to show fails on booting with the built-in display only; it got stuck in the boot processes with too little verbosity in the console messages to be able to tell. Yet again, despite being exceedingly unlikely at that stage I wanted to rule out software and spent time (...) trying to find which was the last OS startup initilization.
*
Act 5: the 2nd swap
*
* Finally, another new symptom showed which made it utterly clear that it is a graphics-path HW issue; booting a rescue system off external media (conclusively ruling out any software cause) brought an audible sound in late boot as for an ok system being rescue booted? but no screen. I brought it to repairs, explaining the clarity of the case and how easy it was to reproduce, and expected a quick turn-around without issues. However, a few days into the repair I was called and asked to provided the purchase receipt. Provided that it was purchased abroad by a relative that was not an easy undertaking. A week into the repair I could provide a level of purchase documentation and the repair shop decided to ask Apple for a motherboard swap authorization (at t+7 calendar days into the repair). I of course provided information about the _long history of problems, the prior swap and for simplicity the repair was logged with the same shop that done the first repair. The Apple response was negative though.
*
* Issue now was that the system was already more than 1 year old. While 2 years extended warranty is statutory law in the EU, the warranty right is against the seller and not the manufacturer. The machine had been bought in Japan.
*
* I recontacted my Apple Service person from the 1st swap. Unfortunately, email bounced and calling in showed that he was not with the company any more. I then went through 1st line phone support again, explaining -- this time with hard facts that it _IS a HW issue. Through the serial number it was quickly triaged (...) to be out of the 1yr manufacturer warranty window. I explained it needing repairs, the reasonableness of the request given the history of the case and so on. 1st level handed it to a 2nd level manager who clearly was authorized to grant repairs which de-jure do not have coverage. Again, the handling was professional. Nevertheless, I was in the pleading role and that when it appeared edgy to go the wrong way for a net of 30 minutes talking to the 1st line staffer and the manager on the phone. When 2nd level hinted she would probably approve, but "first needs to talk to the repair shop just to be correct" I knew I was close to a 2nd repair without having the de-facto total loss of the machine due to replacing a broken motherboard probably not being economical. Following such a path or procedure (?) was perfectly correct. The motherboard was finally swapped for "GPU problems" shortly thereafter (total time for the repair approx. 9 calendar days). The experience left me with a manufacturer to-be-perceived notion that I should be grateful for the free repair. While I stayed cordial in the whole process, the gratitude stayed within the dry limit of having saved a 1.5 yr. old machine from scrapping had the motherboard not been replaced for free.*
Knowing now that many people are affected and surmising that there is an organization within Apple, that having the data -- see Epilogue -- knew all along poses a question. Why were at least the service 1st-and 2nd line, let alone external repair left in the cold information-wise for this problem. I leave it partially to the reader what to make of it.
*
*
Epilogue
*
Again, I want to underline that the cases were handled very well in the scope of the involved people's roles (Apple support 1st and 2nd line, repair shop and possibly development in software ticket screening). In other words, if someone in Apple management reads this and* -- and had I provided the case #s -- the right reaction would NOT be to reprimand the involved employees; they did everything right given the information and probably guidelines given to them, responsively and professionally. Had I rated them on one of the ubiquitous post-contact customer satisfaction surveys, I would have given them a perfect score. So that is not where the problem is.
*
Still, the 2 issues were grossly miss-handled, knowing now that discrete GPU issues in this model type are wide-spread.
*
There is an organization within Apple which with little lag probably clearly sees the data on problem reports and repair incidents around the world. With near certainty, those are being tracked meticulously as substantial costs are involved. They probably have all the lab resources to reproduce and find root-causes, it not alone then with e.g. the GPU manufacturers. If they have more information and see high fault incidents, and are able to extrapolate the numbers of affected machines as it is simple sample to population statistics, what do they do? Apparently, this part of Apple or Apple as such does not proactively act on clearly significant field hardware problems that are affecting very many machines. This is a conjecture based on my experiences above, and please don't sue me on it.*
*
- Cheers,
an early 2011 rMBP owner with 2 motherboard swaps**
Last edited:
Early 2011 MacBook Pro 15" sporadic GPU failure
I am having the same problem with my early 2011 macbook. Here is a video showing what it looks like when it happens while working on something. This video was shot a couple days after taking it to apple. They wiped the drive and reinstalled mavericks, ran some tests and called me back saying it was in perfect working order. Even before testing it, they proposed that I would probably need to have the logic board replaced. I recommended that the computer be tested first before I go spending $600 bucks on a new logic board which will end up just failing again. Reminds me of the RROD nightmare with my xbox 360. Hope this gains popularity enough to force Apple to take action. I have a $2400 paperweight, not happy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFelGLHKQKI
I am having the same problem with my early 2011 macbook. Here is a video showing what it looks like when it happens while working on something. This video was shot a couple days after taking it to apple. They wiped the drive and reinstalled mavericks, ran some tests and called me back saying it was in perfect working order. Even before testing it, they proposed that I would probably need to have the logic board replaced. I recommended that the computer be tested first before I go spending $600 bucks on a new logic board which will end up just failing again. Reminds me of the RROD nightmare with my xbox 360. Hope this gains popularity enough to force Apple to take action. I have a $2400 paperweight, not happy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFelGLHKQKI
A Solution to the Flickering Blue Screen
Unless this is a different issue, I believe I found a solution to the problem described here... Uncheck "Automatic graphics switching" in Energy Saver within System Preferences.
I had intermittent trouble with my 2011 MacBook Pro 15" flickering randomly to a blue screen. Apple replaced the entire computer for me, and the trouble continued. Sometimes it happened multiple times per day, then it wouldn't happen for days or weeks.
I found simply by unchecking "Automatic graphics switching" in Energy Saver, the problem has completely gone away. The only trouble is, my battery life is probably half what it should be, and I've had to replace the battery prematurely.
Apple should offer either a fix for this issue, or in my case, they should have at least "comped" the new battery. I've never had more than a few hours battery life in my MacBook Pro because to prevent the screen flickering to blue, I have to leave it in the higher-energy default mode, without graphics switching.
Can anyone else confirm on this list if this solves the issue for you?
- Jeff
Unless this is a different issue, I believe I found a solution to the problem described here... Uncheck "Automatic graphics switching" in Energy Saver within System Preferences.
I had intermittent trouble with my 2011 MacBook Pro 15" flickering randomly to a blue screen. Apple replaced the entire computer for me, and the trouble continued. Sometimes it happened multiple times per day, then it wouldn't happen for days or weeks.
I found simply by unchecking "Automatic graphics switching" in Energy Saver, the problem has completely gone away. The only trouble is, my battery life is probably half what it should be, and I've had to replace the battery prematurely.
Apple should offer either a fix for this issue, or in my case, they should have at least "comped" the new battery. I've never had more than a few hours battery life in my MacBook Pro because to prevent the screen flickering to blue, I have to leave it in the higher-energy default mode, without graphics switching.
Can anyone else confirm on this list if this solves the issue for you?
- Jeff
Some models are following Apple, however most are not. For example the business line of laptops from Hp, Dell Lenovo and a few other makers do not follow Apples model. Probably because most large IT departments are not interested in super thin laptops without network ports that can't be repaired in house. So they'll be forced to pay Apples insane repair rate.
LOL. I'll just hop on over to the bank and withdraw another 2k out of my trust fund and buy a new computer. Not like I'm a broke as hell college student or anything that expects his 2 year old computer to work after having shelled out 2k for it.
That guy was just using some stereotype that Apple users have lots of extra money to throw around so they can upgrade every 1 or 2 years.
did he have apple care?
----------
I wish. Money is last thing I have a lot of right now. I own the computer named in the problem being reported. Last thing I need is a broken computer.
I have a 2011 mbp 17" as well and had smooth sailing until 2 weeks ago and everything went to heck in a hand basket pretty quick. Apple replaced the logic board and things seem fine for now, but given others' stories, I'm a little bit worried it might reappear.
I think it just either artifacts or it doesn't. GPU issues like this are pretty cut and dry.
Had this happen to me about a month before my applecare ran out.
They replaced the entire logic board, memory, hdd and the display. Lucky it happened when it did.
Ended up picking up a new macbook pro since it was going to take a week, but I basically have a brand new laptop to keep as a backup now.
They replaced the entire logic board, memory, hdd and the display. Lucky it happened when it did.
Ended up picking up a new macbook pro since it was going to take a week, but I basically have a brand new laptop to keep as a backup now.
Finally after having this problem for over 3 months apple is replacing it with a brand new Macbook pro. They replaced parts on 3 times and finally after speaking to 3 senior advisors one finally decided to give me a replacement. Talk about a nightmare through.
My 2011 15" MBP's logic board went out on me back in October while rendering a file in Cinema 4D while in clamshell mode using an external Cinema Display. The screen started glitching and completely crashed. I let my laptop rest before I started it up again and got a grey screen filled with vertical lines. Mac OS refused to boot. I tried starting up in Safe Mode, external drive mode and even target mode to no avail. Took my laptop in to get the bad news that my Graphics Card was shot and that they would have to replace the entire logic board. Out of Apple Care and $300 later, a replacement logic board was installed but by during shipping, my HDD went out and Apple refused to replace it because it wasn't an original HDD. No biggie, Hitachi's warranty should take care of it. While researching my issue, I read loads of forums, discussions, youtube videos etc all complaining about the same problem. I would love for Apple to come forward with a recall so I can get reimbursed.
I'm still have issues with my screen casting a blue hue when MAC OS automatically switches Graphics Cards. It's annoying but I've lived with it for this long.
I'm still have issues with my screen casting a blue hue when MAC OS automatically switches Graphics Cards. It's annoying but I've lived with it for this long.
Before anyone this thread gets anymore of the nonsense "AMD cards suck!!!" I'd like to remind everyone that the following cards also had issues:
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT - Used in Mid/Late 2007 15" and 17" MacBook Pros as well as throughout the entire PC industry in laptops
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M - Used in low end 20" Early 2009 iMacs, low-end 21.5" Late 2009 iMacs, Early 2009 and Late 2009 Mac minis, Late 2008 Aluminum MacBooks, Early 2009, Mid 2009, and late 2009 White MacBooks, exclusively in the low-end 15" MacBook Pro as well as in conjunction with the 9600M GT in all other 15" MacBook Pros from Late 2008 and Mid 2009 as well as both generations of 17" MacBook Pros in 2009
NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT - All 17" MacBook Pros from both Early and Mid 2009, All 15" MacBook Pros from Late 2008, and the middle and high-end model from Mid 2009
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M - All 15" and 17" MacBook Pros from Mid 2010
Basically the only NVIDIA chip that didn't have widespread known issues of some sort was the 320M. Furthermore, the only discrete GPU that didn't have serious issues in MacBook Pro history was the ATI Radeon Mobility X1600, which even still ran way hot.
This being said, the Early and Late 2011 MacBook Pros ran way hot. For the 15" and 17" machines you had quad-core in a laptop for the first time, and you had AMD GPUs which were already known as being thermally inefficient. Very shortly after the Early 2011 models were released, Apple posted a cooling diagnostic utility in GSX SPECIFICALLY FOR THESE MACHINES! This correlates to the fact that those who use SMC fan control software DON'T HAVE THIS ISSUE!
This is a hot running GPU!
That all being said, you gotta love the irony of Apple switching from NVIDIA to AMD in 2011 due to the crappy track record NVIDIA was having up until that point. I can only hope that the Radeon HD 6850 in my desktop PC and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M in my Mid 2012 15" non-retina MacBook Pro are safe...
Again, two different issues. Yes, it does seem to be a recurring theme with MacBook Pros, but that issue and this issue are different due to it being a literally different machine.
First off, Apple does continue to support Mountain Lion for security patches (hence updates to Safari 6 in the form of 6.1.x). Secondly, Mavericks is the newer version and is technically an upgrade (unless you were making a jab at it not working as well as Mountain Lion). Thirdly, this is about a graphics issue on 15" and 17" machines with discrete graphics; you have a 13" model that doesn't have those graphics and you aren't even talking about that issue. Irrelevant?
Any seemingly widespread notebook GPU failure would.
No, it's not. That's why they have a large following of people ranging from technophile to technophobe, who, generation after generation, continue to buy their products.
9600M GTs didn't have as bad of a failure rate as the 8600M GT and the GT 330M, same with the 9400M.
To be fair, everyone wants "thinner" and "lighter" and "quieter" and "more powerful" but they forget that you have to make some kind of compromise on at least one of those otherwise the computer will melt. Those chips ran hot, and Apple, to make the machine quieter, has the fans under-reved. Speed the fans up and yes, it might be slightly noisier, but it will be tons more reliable and it won't burn your lap.
They all came from the same family. The mobile variants (as well as some desktop variants) of the NVIDIA GeForce 8xxx series were notorious for issues. Perhaps the mobile versions of the Radeon HD 6xxx series are AMD's turn for failure in 2011.
Excellent trolling if that's your intention. If it isn't, then that is a truly ridiculous thing to say as those are perfectly viable machines today and tons of people use them because (a) they're still powerful by today's standards, (b) they cost a pretty penny three years ago when they were new, and (c) only seriously wealthy people can afford to just replace $2000+ laptops every two to three years.
The issue was for those with 2011 machines. But yeah, issues with the 2010 ones were notably common.
First off, gaming laptops and workstation laptops have an extremely limited target audience. If you want that much power, you'll be sacrificing portability at which point, why not just get a desktop that you can make substantially more powerful? That's why you don't see Apple making one. For all other laptops with discrete GPUs that don't fall under that heftier laptop category, the GPU is also soldered onto the logic board and is just as unupgradable. If you take a look at the Early 2011 and Late 2011 MacBook Pros, they were probably the most internally accessible laptops on the market in 2011.
You do realize that the iMac is only one of five product lines of Macs, right?
And yes, out of all of them, they are, by far, the worst in terms of design and engineering. That said, barring faulty generations of graphics processors, the MacBooks, MacBook Pros, and MacBook Airs bearing the unibody design are almost completely opposite in this regard.
iMacs are horribly designed desktops and you should not get one of those on principle. MacBook Pros on the other hand are amazing and you should bear in mind that this isn't a failure on Apple's part, but rather a failure on AMD's part for making a faulty GPU. Similarly, when people bash the MacBook Pros from 2007 and 2008 with the GeForce 8600M GT, I'm quick to remind them that there were plenty of other non-Apple laptops with those chips experiencing those failures and at least Apple didn't leave their customers high and dry when widespread failures became commonplace.
Entry level 15" rMBP 15" doesn't have a dGPU either! But it's also the worst bang for buck of the two models.
Uh...again, you are aware that NVIDIA has many more failures in Apple products during the Intel era than AMD does, right?
Uh...you do realize that the laptops were actually WORSE designed back in the early days of "MacBooks" right? The pre-unibody designs were crap and proned to all sorts of durability failure. Also, all computers have planned obsolescence. Or are you still using your Pentium 4-based Windows XP box? You know April's coming...
Yes, because this would obviously explain the kernel panics that people have been describing here...
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT - Used in Mid/Late 2007 15" and 17" MacBook Pros as well as throughout the entire PC industry in laptops
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M - Used in low end 20" Early 2009 iMacs, low-end 21.5" Late 2009 iMacs, Early 2009 and Late 2009 Mac minis, Late 2008 Aluminum MacBooks, Early 2009, Mid 2009, and late 2009 White MacBooks, exclusively in the low-end 15" MacBook Pro as well as in conjunction with the 9600M GT in all other 15" MacBook Pros from Late 2008 and Mid 2009 as well as both generations of 17" MacBook Pros in 2009
NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT - All 17" MacBook Pros from both Early and Mid 2009, All 15" MacBook Pros from Late 2008, and the middle and high-end model from Mid 2009
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M - All 15" and 17" MacBook Pros from Mid 2010
Basically the only NVIDIA chip that didn't have widespread known issues of some sort was the 320M. Furthermore, the only discrete GPU that didn't have serious issues in MacBook Pro history was the ATI Radeon Mobility X1600, which even still ran way hot.
This being said, the Early and Late 2011 MacBook Pros ran way hot. For the 15" and 17" machines you had quad-core in a laptop for the first time, and you had AMD GPUs which were already known as being thermally inefficient. Very shortly after the Early 2011 models were released, Apple posted a cooling diagnostic utility in GSX SPECIFICALLY FOR THESE MACHINES! This correlates to the fact that those who use SMC fan control software DON'T HAVE THIS ISSUE!
This is a hot running GPU!
That all being said, you gotta love the irony of Apple switching from NVIDIA to AMD in 2011 due to the crappy track record NVIDIA was having up until that point. I can only hope that the Radeon HD 6850 in my desktop PC and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M in my Mid 2012 15" non-retina MacBook Pro are safe...
Again, two different issues. Yes, it does seem to be a recurring theme with MacBook Pros, but that issue and this issue are different due to it being a literally different machine.
First off, Apple does continue to support Mountain Lion for security patches (hence updates to Safari 6 in the form of 6.1.x). Secondly, Mavericks is the newer version and is technically an upgrade (unless you were making a jab at it not working as well as Mountain Lion). Thirdly, this is about a graphics issue on 15" and 17" machines with discrete graphics; you have a 13" model that doesn't have those graphics and you aren't even talking about that issue. Irrelevant?
Any seemingly widespread notebook GPU failure would.
No, it's not. That's why they have a large following of people ranging from technophile to technophobe, who, generation after generation, continue to buy their products.
9600M GTs didn't have as bad of a failure rate as the 8600M GT and the GT 330M, same with the 9400M.
To be fair, everyone wants "thinner" and "lighter" and "quieter" and "more powerful" but they forget that you have to make some kind of compromise on at least one of those otherwise the computer will melt. Those chips ran hot, and Apple, to make the machine quieter, has the fans under-reved. Speed the fans up and yes, it might be slightly noisier, but it will be tons more reliable and it won't burn your lap.
They all came from the same family. The mobile variants (as well as some desktop variants) of the NVIDIA GeForce 8xxx series were notorious for issues. Perhaps the mobile versions of the Radeon HD 6xxx series are AMD's turn for failure in 2011.
Excellent trolling if that's your intention. If it isn't, then that is a truly ridiculous thing to say as those are perfectly viable machines today and tons of people use them because (a) they're still powerful by today's standards, (b) they cost a pretty penny three years ago when they were new, and (c) only seriously wealthy people can afford to just replace $2000+ laptops every two to three years.
The issue was for those with 2011 machines. But yeah, issues with the 2010 ones were notably common.
First off, gaming laptops and workstation laptops have an extremely limited target audience. If you want that much power, you'll be sacrificing portability at which point, why not just get a desktop that you can make substantially more powerful? That's why you don't see Apple making one. For all other laptops with discrete GPUs that don't fall under that heftier laptop category, the GPU is also soldered onto the logic board and is just as unupgradable. If you take a look at the Early 2011 and Late 2011 MacBook Pros, they were probably the most internally accessible laptops on the market in 2011.
Issues like this are the reasons why integrated, locked down system is BAD. And for some reasons, some people defend their product indecisively. For what?
I had a 2011 iMac with 6970M and it was a horrid computer, quality wise. Easily overheated, heavy, has issues with the display, graphic, harddrive all replaced before Apple gave me a new one under AppleCare.
Getting an iMac was a stupid decision for me. It's like buying a laptop minus the portability part while retaining the integrated nature and risky factor.
My next computer would be separated. I dont have to lug around the WHOLE SYSTEM (and halting my works) just to get soomething repaired. I dont know about you. But just because it's shiny aluminum doesnt mean it's good.
Macs are durable my ***
As strange as it is, my iOS devices however are 99% trouble free for years. Maybe Apple should just stop making Macs.
You do realize that the iMac is only one of five product lines of Macs, right?
And yes, out of all of them, they are, by far, the worst in terms of design and engineering. That said, barring faulty generations of graphics processors, the MacBooks, MacBook Pros, and MacBook Airs bearing the unibody design are almost completely opposite in this regard.
iMacs are horribly designed desktops and you should not get one of those on principle. MacBook Pros on the other hand are amazing and you should bear in mind that this isn't a failure on Apple's part, but rather a failure on AMD's part for making a faulty GPU. Similarly, when people bash the MacBook Pros from 2007 and 2008 with the GeForce 8600M GT, I'm quick to remind them that there were plenty of other non-Apple laptops with those chips experiencing those failures and at least Apple didn't leave their customers high and dry when widespread failures became commonplace.
Just get the base 21" iMac and avoid the rMBP 15 and you'll be fine
(Hint: Those don't have any dGPU's)
Entry level 15" rMBP 15" doesn't have a dGPU either! But it's also the worst bang for buck of the two models.
Uh...again, you are aware that NVIDIA has many more failures in Apple products during the Intel era than AMD does, right?
its 2014, apples built-in obsolessance feature is kicking in on those ancient 2011 models, apple care due to expire and its time to pay your dues to the house that steve jobs built, for only a large sum, you too can get equipment that is built on the cheap and wrapped in a shiny shiny case to make it seem "well built" and "quality", when in fact the components are pushed to their tolerance ,limits daily and fail early when compared to "cheap" competitors.
i really really liked apple, back in the "old" days, when the MacBooks, pros, and iMacs were actually quality, and could be serviced and upgraded to some degree by the purchaser, these new lumps of sealed shiny metal with parts that you can't fix or replace, batteries you can't swap out, well, you can keep them.
Even the OS is going down hill, mavericks has so many bugs it has me longing for snow leopard or lion, and iTunes is becoming such a mess I've switched to Plex for all my media needs.
Apples fall will be a long, long, one for it has reached the heavens on the back of the iPhone and iPad, but in doing so it has neglected is desktop OS roots in favour of the young upstart that is iOS, and once tarnished by the desktop failures, the world will begin to see apple less and less as a quality brand, more and more as an evil, like Microsoft was once held as the chief example of corporate greed, shoddy workmanship and poor quality control, not to mention monopolistic tendencies.
doesn't stop me wanting a new macbook, iPad and iPhone this year though, so i guess I'm part of the problem
Uh...you do realize that the laptops were actually WORSE designed back in the early days of "MacBooks" right? The pre-unibody designs were crap and proned to all sorts of durability failure. Also, all computers have planned obsolescence. Or are you still using your Pentium 4-based Windows XP box? You know April's coming...
Yes, because this would obviously explain the kernel panics that people have been describing here...
Still waiting hopefully for a recall program or as I've said, a memento for trusting too much on a "premium product"!
I'd like to throw in some piece of information here: When you (hot)plug an external display to the Macbook Pro you usually also connect proper grounding (called "earth" in some countries) to it. This is because external displays come with 3-prong power-plugs and make proper use of it while the Macbook Pro always keeps a voltage differential on its ground even when you use the 3-prong plug of the MBP power-supply.
What this means is that every time you touch the ground of the MBP with the ground of the DP plug (which carries the ground of the display) there is an electrical discharge happening. I wouldn't wonder if this discharge goes right through to the GPU and adds an electrical problem on top of the heat related one. My early 2011 17" MBP's GPU died *exactly* the moment I hot plugged an external display while running bootcamped Windows!
Unibody MBP have a history of electrical grounding and discharge issues right from the start in late 2008. Especially discharges on ground from USB devices coming with their own external (2-prong) power-supplies cause electrical disconnections on ExpressCard (my 2008 - 2010 MBPs, all exchanged by Apple one after another) and later Thunderbolt (my 2011 MBP). In the past there have been reports of external screens going black for just a second the very moment an external (USB) device was connected to the MBP. Apple *knows* about these at least up to the "executive relations" department, but keeps the (official) stance of third-party manufacturers having to solve the issue with Apple instead of looking into their hardware themselves. And of course they don't communicate these issues publicly.
When I had the 2010 MBP (Nvidia based) I tried every single Mini-DP-to-DualLink-DVI adapter out there and finally settled on the most expensive Accell based one. The reason why I had to try them all was, because they all caused very visible banding on my external 30" display (not Apple), which was a result of not all colors being available over the adapters. I had to settle on the Accell, because I had to buy it from another country, but it also proved to be the most solidly build adapter.
The final solution was that I carried my 2010 MBP and the 30" display into our Apple Store, set them up right beside a 2011 MBP and demonstrated how the banding happened on the 2010 model, but not on the 2011 model while using the very same display and adapter. No HF noise on either my former 30" nor current 27" display over the Accell adapter.
After the NVidia based issues I experienced in the past (Bootcamp drivers were also very problematic from the get go) I hoped that the AMD GPU would finally get things going smoothly.
Same here
I had a early 2011 MBP 17", which did the following to me in clamshell mode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnOa1HGjiRw
It would display random lines of colorful distortion, turn the screen off, blink etc.
After buying Macbooks with discrete graphics, trying to kill two birds with one stone, applications + gaming, I found out this a waste of money. The performance is horrible, the Boot Camp drivers doesn't get the care we see from a real PC running Windows.
I'm glad I sold my MBP during the holidays and now switched to the baseline rMBP 15. Much better. The lack of HDD and DVD upgrade options doesn't bother me as I now store everything in the cloud using my mobile LTE.
The bottom line is that I hate dGPU in notebooks, as they seem to bring both heat and noise, while not really providing me with a significant power boost. The only exception is HD video editing, which seems to require a dGPU to be effective. In all other applications, go with integrated solutions or buy Mac Pro or PC with a real graphics card if you are trailing behind performance wise.
I had a early 2011 MBP 17", which did the following to me in clamshell mode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnOa1HGjiRw
It would display random lines of colorful distortion, turn the screen off, blink etc.
After buying Macbooks with discrete graphics, trying to kill two birds with one stone, applications + gaming, I found out this a waste of money. The performance is horrible, the Boot Camp drivers doesn't get the care we see from a real PC running Windows.
I'm glad I sold my MBP during the holidays and now switched to the baseline rMBP 15. Much better. The lack of HDD and DVD upgrade options doesn't bother me as I now store everything in the cloud using my mobile LTE.
The bottom line is that I hate dGPU in notebooks, as they seem to bring both heat and noise, while not really providing me with a significant power boost. The only exception is HD video editing, which seems to require a dGPU to be effective. In all other applications, go with integrated solutions or buy Mac Pro or PC with a real graphics card if you are trailing behind performance wise.
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Thinking I had not much to lose I tried the same thing....
The problem was identified as (possibly) being caused by faulty solder joints around the GFX chip - heat being the culprit. My MPB has been used intensively since I bought it (Cinema 4D, Avid, FCP, After Effects, Photoshop... often simultaneously, with the CPUs running at 97 - 98 C for hours (even days) at a time.
The cure... (maybe)... was to strip the MPB down to it's component parts and remove the logic board. Then I did what the other guys had suggested......
I baked it in the oven for 8 mins at 200 C !
After cooling and reassembling it booted up and ran like new
That was about 6 weeks ago and I've had no recurrence of the problem.
I understand the reasoning behind the solution - the intense heat my MPB had undergone had possibly affected the joints around the GPU connections and the baking had re-flowed the solder...
What type of flux did you use?
What was your preheat temperature?
What was your ramp to soak (how many degrees per second)?
What was your ramp to peak (how many degrees per second)?
What was your time above liquidus? (I'll give you a hint on this one: Unless "200 C" was a typo, your TAL was zero.)
What was your cooling rate (how many degees per second)?
I urge everyone reading this thread to avoid the temptation of these home-brew remedies for 2011 MBP GPU problems. These machines are still worth quite a bit even in this condition, so it's unwise to approach as if you have nothing to lose.
There are lots of posts like this one on the web. Lots of videos too. You see someone do something relatively simple and then put it all back together and it works! But it doesn't last. And you risk making a legitimate repair more difficult.
Two things are required for a legitimate (lasting) repair:
1) Equipment that is more sophisticated than your kitchen oven.
2) A competent professional who knows how to use it.
You can get a new GPU installed or a reball of your existing GPU for $250 to $300. If you live in a big city, check for a local shop doing this type of work. If not, there are also some reputable mail-in services. In either case, do some research.
The only caveat here is that I don't know how likely it is that you would get reimbursed for this type of repair in the event that Apple does eventually recognize the problem and start a program for these machines. Though, IMHO, I think they would have made a move by now if they were going to.
The program for faulty iMac harddrives took quite long to happen. And reimbursement was a lengthy procedure with German customers repeatedly getting English e-mails and different Apple departments in Czechoslovakia, Germany, Ireland and who knows where being involved.
I am 99% sure this problem is due to poor thermal paste application. My wife had an affected 08 MBP with the NVidia card. She sent it in for repair three times, resulting in one new hard drive and two logic board replacements. She still had video card issues (screen tearing while streaming video, 'footlight effect', and glitchy performance).
I finally (a couple months ago) took her laptop apart and redid the thermal paste. It was in horrific condition. Once I put it back together, her laptop worked better than it did when she got it new. No footlights, no screen tearing, and no graphics issues. It also stayed MUCH cooler. Before the thermal paste job, it was unsafely hot on the bottom of the laptop even during normal operation.
I also did the thermal paste reapplication on my early 2011 17" MBP, and it has performed admirably the entire time I've owned it. The only video issue I've ever had with it is a blue tint on the screen when combining an SSD and FileVault 2.
Here's a link to my site where I show photos and explain the benefits of the thermal paste job. Seriously, doing this is SO worth it.
Here are photos of the 15" 2008 NVidia MBP thermal paste:
I finally (a couple months ago) took her laptop apart and redid the thermal paste. It was in horrific condition. Once I put it back together, her laptop worked better than it did when she got it new. No footlights, no screen tearing, and no graphics issues. It also stayed MUCH cooler. Before the thermal paste job, it was unsafely hot on the bottom of the laptop even during normal operation.
I also did the thermal paste reapplication on my early 2011 17" MBP, and it has performed admirably the entire time I've owned it. The only video issue I've ever had with it is a blue tint on the screen when combining an SSD and FileVault 2.
Here's a link to my site where I show photos and explain the benefits of the thermal paste job. Seriously, doing this is SO worth it.
Here are photos of the 15" 2008 NVidia MBP thermal paste:
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Rule of thumb Nr. One at the Apple forum: never ever post anything that questions an Apple decision or, even worse, ask why your warranty wasn't fulfilled by Apple.
I used to be a regular poster with tons of happy newbies' upvotes at the Apple forums. (Later I exit because of the other, stuck-up regulars calling everyone else whiners and liers - see https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1160965/ for more info.) I've seen dozens of cases of direct censorship like that of your case there. Upon request, I can even prove I'm telling the truth - being subscribed to the censored threads, I have the original, non-censored posts later censored by Apple's folks.
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Or just trolling?
It's actually mostly due to manufacturers of these GPU's. If AMD/Nvidia actually properly engineered these chips they would still be running. Nvidia/AMD both rate their GPU's to be able to run safely at 99C+ If that's the case, then these chips shouldn't be getting killed as thermal throttling is supposed to slow down and reduce power before it exceeds the thermal threshold. Theoretically, these chips should live a shorter lifespan vs. a desktop GPU water cooled down to 50C, but they still shouldn't be dying in less than 3 years of use!
In other words, Apple's poor thermal paste application will cause your laptop to throttle down more often, but shouldn't kill it like this.
Nvidia 8600GT's had this problem, Intel's Arrandale iGPU's in 2010 MBP 15/17 had this problem, Xbox 360 had this problem in RROD, and now AMD's 6750 has joined this list.
Fixing the thermal paste and making the gnu run cooler will prolong it's lifespan when it's defective like the above examples, but it doesn't cover up for the fact that these chips left their factories defective.
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Exactly. Macs are sold as being high quality products that last. I have a decent salary, and I could waltz into the Apple store and buy a loaded rMBP, but I don't want a new computer, I don't need a new computer, I expect to get my money's worth out of this one. I had to pay $300 for a new GPU. I need to get around to filing a lawsuit against Apple, because what they are doing here is wrong, and they need to accept responsibility for the junk hardware they shipped, and make right on it.
I fought with Apple for probably 2 or 3 months on this, including several calls back and forth with Tim Cook's executive support people and they would not make right on their product. Because of this, I seriously question future Apple purchases, even though in the past, I have gotten very good service from Apple.
What country do you live in? That would cost a FORTUNE in the United States. Our LTE is very reasonable for using a mobile phone and streaming music, but not for cloud storage...