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Your logic is backwards. If the computer has a lot of thermal paste AND is burning your thigh THEN the thermal paste is doing its job and transferring the heat AWAY from the processor and into the case like a heat sink...

Not so sure about that. If there is good thermal transfer between the die and heatsink assembly, then that heat should exit as hot air via the exhaust vent. There is no direct contact between the fin stack and the metal case.

On the other hand, if there is poor thermal transfer between the die and heatsink assembly, then more heat will be dissipated through the PCB and you'll feel that more in the metal case.
 
Your logic is backwards. If the computer has a lot of thermal paste AND is burning your thigh THEN the thermal paste is doing its job and transferring the heat AWAY from the processor and into the case like a heat sink

And it's pretty clear that don't know how thermal paste works, or should I say how it's designed to work. If that were true, Arctic Silver and similar companies would tell you to lather your CPU and GPU in the stuff in order to maximize heat transfer away from the core/die. Instead, they tell you to only apply about a grain of rice worth and use a credit card to spread it evenly and thinly.

Thermal paste is like motor oil in your car. Too much can be just as bad as too little.
 
The Macbook Pro 4.1 ( 2008 Early) Suffered from the exact same symptoms and it was known to caused by the Nvidia chip being malfunctioning. Also Heat issues were present with that very model.

I know because I happened to see and follow a Macbook Pro 4.1 and all those glitches , screen disortions, sometimes black screens.

Its like a dejavu ..... from 2008 Early
 
Anyone not on Mavericks having problems?

I'm not saying that it's Mavericks that is doing this, but something in the new OS might be pushing the card in a way that it's breaking or deteriorating the soldering or speeding up the thermal paste problem. Is that even possible?


I'm on a MBP, 17'' from early 2011 with Mountain Lion, and so far so good. I hope it remains like that. I have it, most of the time, connected to a Thunderbolt display.
 
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I have both a 17" and a 15" 2.2ghz i7 early 2011. Neither has shown any problems so far. I run only snow leopard and I usually stay on integrated graphics. I decided to thwart this problem yesterday and re-apply the thermal paste on my 15" and when I took it apart this is what I saw:

2014-01-18183736_zpsb84cc221.jpg
 
Glitch?... really?

I have a late (Nov) 2011 MBP - 15 inch with Radeon 6750M 512mb video. Video started acting wonky and then... complete failure. Apple genius said it was a logic board and that it would cost $350. On receipt of repaired product, I was told that I was "lucky" because the board replacement costs much more. Lucky me!

I haven't't been this lucky since my Apple Time capsule "failed" and I was told that I could get a replacement for a $20 discount.

The old Apple stood behind its products.

C'mon Apple.

Evangelism is waning.
 
2001 MBP GPU failed - logic board replacement needed

My 2011 MBP also suffered from the same issue. It started with the screen appearing with vertical lines through it occasionally, and got progressively worse to the point where it crashed frequently and sometimes would take many attempts to boot back up (getting stuck on grey screen). Using discrete graphics triggered an instant crash. After two Genius appointments, they replaced my logic board (at my cost - $600). It's ridiculous that this is clearly a manufacturing defect, that we have to pay out of pocket to fix. Apple should own up to this and refund the people who had to pay for replacement logic boards, and provide new ones to people with the issues. Why would I buy an Apple laptop again otherwise?
 
I have both a 17" and a 15" 2.2ghz i7 early 2011. Neither has shown any problems so far. I run only snow leopard and I usually stay on integrated graphics. I decided to thwart this problem yesterday and re-apply the thermal paste on my 15" and when I took it apart this is what I saw:
Wow - that's even worse than my 17" early 2011 looked. Did you get some Arctic Silver in there?
P1040038.jpg

P1040095.jpg

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Yep, put arctic silver in there nice thin layer. Temps are the same though. Hoping they go down after it settles. Don't know if I would blame the gobs on this problem though. Makes me sick to think someday these 2 machines will stop working. I still have a top running Pismo Powerbook G3. LOL.
 
What's the best way to cook a GPU? My 17"'s warranty expires in June; and I'd love to cook it to death and get it dealt with while IN warranty vs. just out of...

Furmark, I'd also run intel burn test at the same time if you really want to heat things up as that will also heat up the cpu at the same time. (BTW both are only windows apps) Just be careful to watch your battery as if you're drawing more than what the 85 watt AC adapter can supply, the mbp will start to draw power from the battery also.
 
Do you guys think that if I open up my computer and clean off the excessive thermal paste and add some arctic silver it will allow my computer to turn on successfully? Or might the gpu be absolutely broken?
 
And it's pretty clear that don't know how thermal paste works, or should I say how it's designed to work. If that were true, Arctic Silver and similar companies would tell you to lather your CPU and GPU in the stuff in order to maximize heat transfer away from the core/die. Instead, they tell you to only apply about a grain of rice worth and use a credit card to spread it evenly and thinly.

Thermal paste is like motor oil in your car. Too much can be just as bad as too little.

It's pretty clear huh? :rolleyes:

It's pretty clear you can't read very well since I'm not arguing about applying too much paste; I'm saying if the heat is transferring outward to the case, it's doing it's job. If it's not transferring heat and it's overheating, it's not doing its job. What he described was heat on the outside of the case, not the chip cooking itself to death. Now if the fan isn't doing it's job evacuating heat off the heat sink or the case acting like one then the fan needs adjusted and hence while I mentioned a fan program that can raise the fan at lower temperatures than Apple uses (i.e. Mac Fan Control works well on newer Macs).
 
I'm currently running snow leopard on my 17 inch late 2011 MBP.

Is there a reliably way of replicating this condition to see if indeed, I am among those who are affected?

From the comments I've been reading here, it seems to be an issue that is universal in nature and it's not if but when it will strike.

I still have applecare until December, 2014
 
It's pretty clear huh? :rolleyes:

It's pretty clear you can't read very well since I'm not arguing about applying too much paste

It's pretty clear you need to do a better job of choosing your words.

Your logic is backwards. If the computer has a lot of thermal paste AND is burning your thigh THEN the thermal paste is doing its job and transferring the heat AWAY from the processor and into the case like a heat sink

The point is that there should not be "a lot of thermal paste" in the first place. Further, Swampus up above already addressed the fact that heat transfer should not be taking place through the body of notebook, at least not to the degree that it causes anyone physical discomfort.
 
It's pretty clear you need to do a better job of choosing your words.

I cannot control your comprehension of the English language. I have a minor in English so I doubt it's my grammar that is causing the problem. But I will clarify further since you obviously still either don't get what I'm saying or choose not to believe it based on your comments about this fellow named Swampus. By the way, my two degrees are in Electronic Engineering, by the way in case you were wondering. ;)

The point is that there should not be "a lot of thermal paste" in the first place.

He asserts there's a lot of thermal paste. I have never seen a lot of thermal paste when I had my Macs opened, but then unless you're removing the heat sink or fan over the CPU or it's dripping out the sides, how the hell would you know how much paste they used? It's between the heat sink and/or fan and the CPU itself and thus normally hidden from view. How many Macs has he looked at that he can verify there's too much "grease". The fact he calls it grease instead of paste caught my attention in the first place.

Further, Swampus up above already addressed the fact that heat transfer should not be taking place through the body of notebook, at least not to the degree that it causes anyone physical discomfort.

Here I find the words "should not" in a place of authority where I have to question how the hell does Swampus know what it should or should not do? Is he the designer? The entire reason we call mobile computers "Notebooks" now instead of "Laptops" is that they were burning people's laps and creating a bad connotation for something that is implied to work on your lap and thus the industry started calling them notebooks so they don't imply any longer that they're meant to use or safe to use on your lap.

The simple fact is that a computer pushed to its limits is going to generate heat. How much heat and how that heat is controlled is another matter. My Macbook Pro can get pretty darn warm if I don't turn up the fans when it's pushed (again the default Apple setting waits too long to turn up the fan for the sake of "quiet" operation), but my Mac Mini is cold as a cucumber unless maxed out on all four CPUs, but the internal temperature probe says otherwise. It gets very very hot very very quickly so I adjusted the fans to deal with it. In other words, how the computer "feels" is zero indication of whether or not the CPU itself is too hot. My entire point is that dissipating the heat to the case as a heat sink may very well be a design feature to save your CPU from burning itself up, not to make it pleasant to use the computer on your lap.

Apple clearly favors quiet operation over cool operation so they are going to get very warm before the fans turn up to evacuate the heat. That does not indicate one way or another whether too much paste was used on the CPU. Has someone had a CPU fail or panic a lot? If so, they might inspect the seal and amount of thermal paste. In fact, I see quite a lot of exactly that sort of thing when overclocking on regular PCs. You'll find out very quickly if the CPU is getting too hot. Windows will start freezing for one thing. How much heat is coming out of the machine is no indication. In fact, when it's generating heat, you WANT the heat out of the machine, not staying inside frying things. If anything, a hot outside surface indicates a fan problem not a thermal paste heat transfer problem which again is why I suggested using Mac Fan Control to lower the temperature sensor setting where the fan speed is increased. This will keep the case from getting as hot, assuming the fans are operating correctly.
 
And if it turns out to be a Manufacturer defect, they will. Go back to the Nvidia 8000 series failure from 2008 and you will see that Apple took care of their customers MUCH better than any other OEM's. Heck I believe HP only relented to fix the laptops AFTER they were slapped with a massive lawsuit.

Nobody took care of me, because mine didn't fail on their preferred schedule! Now my music machine is dead. I'm out one expensive computer and getting no music work done. I cannot buy an interim machine; the money put aside is waiting for the Mac Pro that's barely shipping in any quantity. I hope the Mac Pros don't have any freaky component design defects.

AMD and NVidia dropped the ball here. Twice each, it seems.
 
... The entire reason we call mobile computers "Notebooks" now instead of "Laptops" is that they were burning people's laps and creating a bad connotation for something that is implied to work on your lap and thus the industry started calling them notebooks so they don't imply any longer that they're meant to use or safe to use on your lap. ...

Yes, and this is a perfect example of how the market manipulates itself and the consumers, rather than serving their needs. Instead of giving us safe laptops, they redefined the product as "notebook" and tell users the fault is their own if they get burnt. Hooray for the free market. Free to be whatever the corporations pushing product want it to be, with near zero accountability to anyone.
 
Just took the MacBook Pro to the manhattan village apple store. $526 to fix it in the store, $310 to ship and fix it at one of their repair centers. Decided to buy some some arctic silver at the nearby fry's to see if changing the paste might solve the problem.

Do you guys think that if I open up my computer and clean off the excessive thermal paste and add some arctic silver it will allow my computer to turn on successfully? Or might the gpu be absolutely broken?

No. Sorry. Thermal paste will not repair a broken solder joint.

I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes. On the one hand, $310 will get your another logic board, but it could be one that has problems and fails quickly (as many have reported for this particular issue). You do get a 90 day warranty, though. You could push it hard for 89 days in an attempt to make it reveal any fault. Of course, that could also backfire. It could fail on day 91 when it might otherwise have lasted for two years. If Apple eventually admits this problem and creates a repair program, you'd almost certainly be reimbursed the $310 (this has always been the case in the past).

Except for that part about possible future reimbursement, I would lean more toward a repair of your existing logic board. There are some well-regarded local shops in your area that do this type of work. Ask about a GPU replacement or a reball of your existing GPU. I've yet to see mention of failure with either of these options. If it has been ruled out that the AMD solder balls are a contributing factor (or if these shops are getting packages that were balled from a different batch), then GPU replacement is becoming the more obvious choice. Again, though, ask your local shops what they think is best. Someone who still works on these every day will know way more about the current thinking than I do. Either option will cost you about the same as the Apple repair. (Also: I'm not 100% sure that you would not be reimbursed for this type of repair if the problem is recognized in the future. Try to research it further if that's a deciding factor.)

To be clear: You're looking for professionals with high-end equipment and a good reputation, not some damn kid with a Home Depot heat gun.
 
This issue started up for me today when I'm unplugged from power and using CPU/gpu instensive activities like Photoshop or webex.

I eventually waited and turned it back on and used smcfancontrol to keep my fans at 100%. Happened again when I forgot to turn the fans back on manually.
 
I have a late 2011 MBP 15inches.
This issue started for me shortly after upgrading to mavericks. I was watching a movie when suddenly the screen went blank, upon restarting it gets stuck on a gray screen.
I sent it for repair and they said it's a graphics card problem.
Went on with the repair and after 2 weeks same issue resurfaced.
After the 2nd repair I began to use the small USB fan to cool it off especially when doing graphics intensive works. This seem to solve the crashing, until last week when my wife was doing some Facebook photo uploads and forgot to use the USB fan, the thing completely died again.
Now, seeing how many people have the same issue as mine, I'm waiting for news of Apple doing a replacement/recall.
It's frustrating to have a $2k machine behave like a cheapo low class china-made brand.
 
I haven't ran into these issues yet, but I've put aside my MBP just in case so it doesn't die before Apple actually does something like it did with the 2011 iMac.

We need more publicity on the problem so the media and Apple know its widespread and force a recall on this. A $2k+ machine should not behave like this.
 
I've had this issue since 2011 and I thought it was just me. I upgraded my ram to 8gb and thought I messed it up. Then I thought it was gfxcardstatus. Took if into apple with my apple care and told me it was gfx. Still had the problem, then took it in again in November and had the logic board replaced. Took it in again and they replaced it again, along with the display and ram (still have 8gb). Haven't had the issue yet, but wouldn't be surprised if I did, looking forward to getting it replaced with a retina on their dime. Boy have they waisted my time!

Yup, similar situation here as well. Mine has been playing up since I got it. Randomly goes to blue screen when the graphics card gets a workout, or does the lines of random colour pixels followed by a blue screen. Interestingly for me, if I plug in an external monitor, the external monitor will work fine while the built in screen remains BSoDed.

I'm all for a retina 15" replacement considering I can't get a 15" classic anymore. Either way, I'd like to see Apple own up to this and fix it one way or another. Does anyone have any clue as to what is likely to happen, besides the expected, "suck it up and buy a new one because you're all out of the warranty period."?
 
After reading these 13 pages and many of the almost 200 pages in the Apple Support forums about this subject, lots of people had problems before Mavericks, but they were a bit spread. In the other hand, a really really big percentage of people started to have problems right after the Mavericks upgrade or 1 or 2 months after.

I wonder again if this is correlated? Is there anything on Mavericks that is more GPU intensive or anything corrupted that is forcing the GPU into some kind of overdrive mode and it's drastically reducing it's lifespan?
 
On a side note, after Mavericks upgrade my 2011 early 15" hi res mbp's battery completely died. Before the upgrade didn't have any issues.
 
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