Some Apple Employees Seriously Concerned About Mixed-Reality Headset as Announcement Draws Closer

[Pezimak]

It’s not that I don’t like the product. It’s just I don’t think the world is ready yet. The biggest factor is the $3000 price point. It’s already starting off overly expensive. Niche market product!

Exactly. VR is still very niche, even its fans admit to that. The PlayStation VR2 was in the news for the week it launched and that was it, now it's hardly spoken off outside its fans. And Apple thinks a 3 grand pair of oversized skiing goggles / glasses will be a hit? When all it will do is what your phone already does.
Try we more we hear about this product the more it sounds like a total flop. That sales pitch for the idea doesn't sound like it's targeting specific professionals at all, but rather the general public.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Some 10 years after the first iteration launches, prices will come down to around higher end Mac prices and it will lose the battery pack and just be a big headset with the similar configuration options we’re used to see when buying Macs.

I really don't think we'll have a big headset in 10 years somehow. My expectation is a slim visor, and if we're lucky, curved sunglasses.

 

[tYNS]

This will be the solidification of Apple's return to the mid 90's Newton. Steve Jobs really was the Heart and Soul. Not much they can do without him. Once the phone market moves on to some new revolutionary device, apple will start to collapse, hard.

 

[Pezimak]

The iPhone combined

• The iPod, the then most successful mp3 player backed by the de facto online store for digital music
• A phone, which people didn't need convincing they needed, with a great texting experience, which again, people did a lot and quite enthusiastically
• Email and internet. Now these were not as prevalent for most people on the go, but plenty of people were online, used the internet frequently and sent quite a lot of emails.
• Added features such as YouTube and maps

With the iPhone, no one doubted that anyone needed these things.

There was heated debate over the iPhone's user interface, the all touchscreen design vs physical keyboards and missing hardware features such as 3G for sure. There were even people who thought that all of these should be separate devices, but no one questioned the use case in the first place.

I'm not convinced that is the case here. I'm not saying there isn't a market for AR or VR, even less that there isn't a market for these things done right. But you need to justify it on its own merit and not because the iPhone turned out to be a success, because quite frankly these don't compare.

Apple was not the first with those things in one device, not by a long way. It just copied what others had done and improved on it. But I had a phone that did email, played music, surfed the web before the iPhone existed. No one is currently selling any type of AR headset to the public that I know off.

 

[richinaus]

Apple was not the first with those things in one device, not by a long way. It just copied what others had done and improved on it. But I had a phone that did email, played music, surfed the web before the iPhone existed. No one is currently selling any type of AR headset to the public that I know off.

Quest Pro.

I am betting the house on AR [literally....] however it is a long term game. Apple should be worried as I am fully into this and cant see who will buy the headset apart from people like me [for work dev].

But it does need to come out, and it needs to be iterated over the next 5-10 years to get where we need to be. Its all well being negative about it, but AR can be truly magical - the hardware just wont match the vision just yet.

 

[Zmmyt]

This will be the solidification of Apple's return to the mid 90's Newton. Steve Jobs really was the Heart and Soul. Not much they can do without him. Once the phone market moves on to some new revolutionary device, apple will start to collapse, hard.

110%

 

[tYNS]

You can look at it from both perspectives and either make sense.

I actually expect this product to be a big commercial failure(!) initially because of the price tag and limited application.

And most reviewers and consumers will probably struggle to see the need for it.

But that’s the whole plan. Just get it out and have devs and early adopters help shape the path for it.

Over several many years it’ll develop into what I have to assume is as a fully AR/VR replacement for MacOS and iOS, controlled by gestures, head and facial movement.

Some 10 years after the first iteration launches, prices will come down to around higher end Mac prices and it will lose the battery pack and just be a big headset with the similar configuration options we’re used to see when buying Macs.

This will eventually replace both Macs and iPhones.

I highly doubt it will replace anything. The sheer fact VR gives most people motion sickness basically makes it a waste of time and a dumb idea. The AR aspect might calm that motion sickness, but what is the point... honestly.. how are you going to fit any usefulness in a pair of glasses other than maybe a monitor replacement? but at what resolution and usefulness? Do you think an iPhone stye processor can run high end effects software and productivity applications with complex structures and have the ability to easily manage the elements??? no way sir. VR has been tried for decades and decades... It's a gimmick. Even magic leap turned out to be a flop. magic leap 2 is not much better.

 

[User 6502]

Apple was not the first with those things in one device, not by a long way. It just copied what others had done and improved on it. But I had a phone that did email, played music, surfed the web before the iPhone existed. No one is currently selling any type of AR headset to the public that I know off.

Facebook is. The metà quest pro or whatever is called is a vr/ar/mixed reality device. It’s not even the only one. Microsoft also have their own, and so does valve. Apple is not inventing anything here. Not that they generally do.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

This will be the solidification of Apple's return to the mid 90's Newton. Steve Jobs really was the Heart and Soul. Not much they can do without him. Once the phone market moves on to some new revolutionary device, apple will start to collapse, hard.

The next revolutionary device is AR though. That's the only possibility.

You could say holograms or brain interfacing, but AR will be a solved technology long before those are ready.

 

[User 6502]

Apple already had a flop relatively-recently. That flop was the HomePod. The HomePod lineup seems to be okay now, but originally it flopped big. Flopped even before it was launched (was to be released in December of 2017, but was delayed and missed an entire Christmas/Holiday buying season).

The HomePod was a flop, but (I assume) everything is going okay with the HomePod lineup now. Siri is still… Siri, but the hardware is good at a good starting price point. (The first-gen hardware was good also, but at an awful starting price point.) Apple got that first-gen awfulness out of the way and put what they learned into the second-gen.

Gotta release the headset eventually. (Or never releasing it ever is also a possibility.) I’m not going to be buying the first-gen, but some brave souls will. Those early adopters can be the guinea pigs (and usual) and all of us who wait will benefit from their sacrifice in the second-gen and beyond. 😂

There is no evidence that the new downgraded home pod is doing better than its flopped predecessor. HomePod mini sells, the big model we do not know. personally I doubt it does.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

I highly doubt it will replace anything. The sheer fact VR gives most people motion sickness basically makes it a waste of time and a dumb idea. The AR aspect might calm that motion sickness, but what is the point... honestly.. how are you going to fit any usefulness in a pair of glasses other than maybe a monitor replacement? but at what resolution and usefulness? Do you think an iPhone stye processor can run high end effects software and productivity applications with complex structures and have the ability to easily manage the elements??? no way sir. VR has been tried for decades and decades... It's a gimmick. Even magic leap turned out to be a flop. magic leap 2 is not much better.

If it's a waste of time and a dumb idea, then why are Apple and others fixing sickness issues? It's almost like it's not a dumb idea - just one with problems to solve.

Don't be so quick to call something dumb. Learn to understand the technology first.

 

[Pezimak]

Quest Pro.

I am betting the house on AR [literally....] however it is a long term game. Apple should be worried as I am fully into this and cant see who will buy the headset apart from people like me [for work dev].

But it does need to come out, and it needs to be iterated over the next 5-10 years to get where we need to be. Its all well being negative about it, but AR can be truly magical - the hardware just wont match the vision just yet.

Isn't the Quest Pro a VR headset? Not AR?
Otherwise I don't share your enthusiasm. But we will see.

 

[Pezimak]

Facebook is. The metà quest pro or whatever is called is a vr/ar/mixed reality device. It’s not even the only one. Microsoft also have their own, and so does valve. Apple is not inventing anything here. Not that they generally do.

Those are VR not AR. Showing you your room isn't the same as wearing a AR headset constantly when walking around everywhere. And Microsoft don't have one. They scrapped it.

Quest Pro is promoted as a VR headset capable of mixed reality, that's not AR.

Meta

www.meta.com

 

[TracerAnalog]

I can’t be the only one who kind of hopes it flops…

Why do you wish failure upon anyone? I have played around with AR/VR quite a bit, and although it is fun it is also something I only do now and then. I do not see the point of very expensive Apple AR/VR glasses, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised when they launch it. Once they get the price down to PS VR2 levels, I might become interested. Oh, and make it Steam compatible please😉.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Those are VR not AR. Showing you your room isn't the same as wearing a VR headset constantly when walking around everywhere. And Microsoft don't have one. They scrapped it.

Quest Pro is MR, which just means VR and AR. The only caveat (it's a big one mind you) is that there is no automatic mapping for rooms/objects.

Microsoft has HoloLens 2 which still exists and hasn't been scrapped. All we know is they laid off a bunch of their AR/VR employees.

 

[MobiusStrip]

If it doesn't have HDMI inputs, it's stupid.

 

[SanderEvers]

VR/AR/3D in general is a big flop. As long as you need to wear glasses for it, or strap a screen to your face it will flop.

 

[JustAnExpat]

Apple's in the consumer, mass market industry, with a secondary market in software and hardware video production. I have been thinking a lot about how "Apple Glasses" (or whatever they will be called) can be used to provide value to most consumers. I can't see it.

Could it have use in medicine/ education/ interior design/ games? Yes. But those are very niche markets that Apple doesn't have much success in.

Apple likes entering markets after the market is established (see, iPhone, iPod, AirPods, Watch, etc.). I remember back around 2014 when it seemed like everyone was selling 3D virtual reality glasses thingies. I think Apple thought it was going to be an established market, they started developing a product, and then the market collapsed as the novelty wore off.

If Apple releases these glasses, I expect it to simply try and capture any sunk costs, and it'll disappear fast. I doubt they would be sold for 3K though.

 

[Exponent]

I really hope this succeeds. Or it paves the way to a product that will be considered a success. I like AR and the notion that you can add a layer of information on everything you see really intrigues me. My concerns relate to practicality, accessibility and price.
While unspectacular, this commerce portal really does highlight the potential.

Imagine something similar but with a photo realistic (whatever that means in 2023) environment that includes other people who are in person and virtually.

I'm sorry, but that video you showed is completely un-compelling to me. Furthermore, it means someone is walking around in the real world, but not seeing their real-world surroundings - dangerous and shows a lack of common sense by the wearer.

 

[keith57]

I thought it was for developers, to develop resources and apps for AR/VR?

Far too expensive for regular people, also too big to wear outside, we will have to be patient and wait for the much slimmer and more reasonably priced ‘Apple Glass’.

For me, I am looking forward to some AR device that lets me see my live GPS data in some kind of glasses device so I can walk / climb / run / ride / kayak etc without having to take my eyes away from what I am doing. This would be very useful in so many scenarios.

Garmin had something like this, but it was a bit too clunky and didn’t sell well. Discontinued now, but some users did like the information at eye level. YMMV of course

 

[diddl14]

Nothing in that article is a solves the fact that a pixel (even a really small one) 2 inches from your eye will cover too large an area in your field of view to make it useful as a high resolution workspace. The article has some good explanations and suggestions for anyone who is not getting optimal performance from their VR gear, but “acceptable” detail in a game is far from what is needed for the “virtual workspace“ scenario.

Might be wrong on this as it sounds like you have more insight but from what I'm reading 5K per eye would be able to at least be on par with a normal HD monitor. For true retina it needs something like 16K? That's clearly not going to happen on day 1 but trough their broad experience in optimizing/miniaturizing stuff, Apple I assume has very good cards to achieve that in a few years (3+).

I'm ok with for now with HD quality as I mainly like the idea of having an endless virtual space. But have to see and try. You might be totally right that there is no way of not seeing the pixels ("screen door effect"?) making it effectively useless as monitor replacement.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

If it doesn't have HDMI inputs, it's stupid.

How would this look? It sounds like a person would end up looking like DC's Thinker.

 

[4nNtt]

I thought it was for developers, to develop resources and apps for AR/VR?

Far too expensive for regular people, also too big to wear outside, we will have to be patient and wait for the much slimmer and more reasonably priced ‘Apple Glass’.

For me, I am looking forward to some AR device that lets me see my live GPS data in some kind of glasses device so I can walk / climb / run / ride / kayak etc without having to take my eyes away from what I am doing. This would be very useful in so many scenarios.

Garmin had something like this, but it was a bit too clunky and didn’t sell well. Discontinued now, but some users did like the information at eye level. YMMV of course

I think there are two types of wearables that would be cool. This sort that can do lightweight augmentation for GPS etc and something like the headset that is basically a full computer. It will be interesting to see how all of this evolves over the next decade. When Apple is ready for this lightweight device I imagine it will be in the $500-$1000 range.

 

[NEPOBABY]

In related news, having destroyed the fake NFT market with his last documentary Dan Olsen (Folding Ideas) is back to destroy the stupid metaverse (already resting in pieces) with his new documentary

 

[pacalis]

Ironically the only high-functioning metaverse is fortnite, which you can't play on apple.