Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Quest Pro is MR, which just means VR and AR. The only caveat (it's a big one mind you) is that there is no automatic mapping for rooms/objects.

Microsoft has HoloLens 2 which still exists and hasn't been scrapped. All we know is they laid off a bunch of their AR/VR employees.

There were lots of story's linked to a report last month that Microsoft had scrapped HoloLens 3 due to on going confusion it was the right device for them and the Metaverse.

As for MR. Well it sounds similar yes but it's not what Apple are offering here, no one is offering that.
All the systems you've mentioned are for pro use and require PC's to work, I think. So you are limited to their use.

Apples device will seemingly work on its own or at the most need an iPhone. And will offer AR beyond MR. MR seems stuck in the meeting or design room, sharing drawings etc.
Apples AR will overlay things in the real world outside the office, directions. Information on buildings and companies, phones can do that now to an extent. And that's the problem, MS and Quest target a market. Apple is targeting the public market but with a device seemingly offering the same as what your phone does already.

This describes the differences better.


Basically MR overlays objects you can interact with, AR overlays graphics or information in the real world.
 
Last edited:
It is clear that most of the people here are not VR users. The VR games are something that really draws you in by immersion and by making your part of the experience. There are more than games in VR. There are actual communities. And they are like any other. The apple price is predictable. Nothing apple does is cheap. You need to pull out a mortgage for anything apple.

There are a lot of people who wont do VR due to needing a headset but cell phones took a little while to catch on.
 
Apple was not the first with those things in one device, not by a long way. It just copied what others had done and improved on it. But I had a phone that did email, played music, surfed the web before the iPhone existed. No one is currently selling any type of AR headset to the public that I know off.

I don't disagree, although my point wasn't necessarily that Apple was first in this space, which it both was and wasn't, but that the iPhone built on demand and use cases that were already well established even if smartphones really weren't.

I had a phone that could do all of those things too, but frankly they were a pain in the ar*e to use half of the time and quite unusable for the rest. Nokia's Series 60 platform, as well as whatever version of Windows mobile we were on at the time, were more powerful in many ways than the iPhone. The Blackberry was the better email machine. Nevertheless, what the iPhone did really well was combining the things most people actually did and pulling it together into a device that was fun to use. It wasn't built for the power users, it was built for people like my girlfriend at the time who would have never considered anything else than her sleek Motorola but insisted we get her an iPhone on a trip to the US after seeing mine.

But the important thing is that as transformative the iPhone (and the Android counter-revolution) was in the years to come, it gradually built on existing stuff (as you say) by being better, more fun and more useful at the basics. That's why saying "people criticised the iPhone and were wrong, so you criticising the headset must also be wrong" misses the point because it doesn't understand why the iPhone was a success.

Apple's record otherwise is a mixed bag, which quite frankly is to be expected and not a criticism:
  • The iPod was a huge success, obviously, but like the iPhone it launched into a market that didn't really need convincing that digital music was a cool and useful thing.
  • The iPad basically said "Hey, you know all the cool stuff you enjoy doing on your phone? You can now do it in bigger." That's fine, but it took years for the iPad to really come into its own and I'd argue that it still hasn't really been transformative in the way the iPhone was and for most people it's a neat companion to what they have, but one they could probably live without.
  • The Watch now seems to want to be the best fitness and health tracker under the sun, which it does well, but again the Watch hasn't really transformed my life at all and it hasn't created the same kind of ecosystem of apps. If my watch died tomorrow, I'm not sure I would get another one unless there was an excellent deal.
I actually think the prospect of AR/VR is quite cool. I could see AR being useful if it were integrated into my normal glasses, but it would need a lot of convincing that it's really worth the significant investment it seems to require, when even the £400 for the Watch are a not always justified.

I'm saying this as a consumer, and industrial use cases might be different, but this launch is not the iPhone launch for all of the reasons above. Apple needs to really convince people that this thing will make a difference in their lives and, even if this product is just a bridge to get developers on board, they need to be convinced that consumers might eventually get on board and put money on the table because why put resources into it otherwise. Everyone else seems to struggle to come up with something that really interests people, even if they can't afford it or find too difficult to use. It'll be an uphill battle.
 
I keep seeing people say this. "It's not for consumers". "They need a product out there for people to develop software for it for future, lower-cost devices"... Who exactly is going to waste the time and energy developing software for a product that has no customer base? This is clown talk.

You know the Apple I never had a mass consumer market to address prior to Apple building it and selling a bunch of them to hobbyists?

You can keep your head in the sand, but meanwhile, Apple, Google, Facebook and Microsoft are spending billions of dollars collectively on this stuff.

Yes, it is clunky at the moment, but it WILL be the next computing paradigm to take over from the desktop metaphor and mobile/tablet UI. There’s just a long road to get there.
 
I don't disagree, although my point wasn't necessarily that Apple was first in this space, which it both was and wasn't, but that the iPhone built on demand and use cases that were already well established even if smartphones really weren't.

I had a phone that could do all of those things too, but frankly they were a pain in the ar*e to use half of the time and quite unusable for the rest. Nokia's Series 60 platform, as well as whatever version of Windows mobile we were on at the time, were more powerful in many ways than the iPhone. The Blackberry was the better email machine. Nevertheless, what the iPhone did really well was combining the things most people actually did and pulling it together into a device that was fun to use. It wasn't built for the power users, it was built for people like my girlfriend at the time who would have never considered anything else than her sleek Motorola but insisted we get her an iPhone on a trip to the US after seeing mine.

But the important thing is that as transformative the iPhone (and the Android counter-revolution) was in the years to come, it gradually built on existing stuff (as you say) by being better, more fun and more useful at the basics. That's why saying "people criticised the iPhone and were wrong, so you criticising the headset must also be wrong" misses the point because it doesn't understand why the iPhone was a success.

Apple's record otherwise is a mixed bag, which quite frankly is to be expected and not a criticism:
  • The iPod was a huge success, obviously, but like the iPhone it launched into a market that didn't really need convincing that digital music was a cool and useful thing.
  • The iPad basically said "Hey, you know all the cool stuff you enjoy doing on your phone? You can now do it in bigger." That's fine, but it took years for the iPad to really come into its own and I'd argue that it still hasn't really been transformative in the way the iPhone was and for most people it's a neat companion to what they have, but one they could probably live without.
  • The Watch now seems to want to be the best fitness and health tracker under the sun, which it does well, but again the Watch hasn't really transformed my life at all and it hasn't created the same kind of ecosystem of apps. If my watch died tomorrow, I'm not sure I would get another one unless there was an excellent deal.
I actually think the prospect of AR/VR is quite cool. I could see AR being useful if it were integrated into my normal glasses, but it would need a lot of convincing that it's really worth the significant investment it seems to require, when even the £400 for the Watch are a not always justified.

I'm saying this as a consumer, and industrial use cases might be different, but this launch is not the iPhone launch for all of the reasons above. Apple needs to really convince people that this thing will make a difference in their lives and, even if this product is just a bridge to get developers on board, they need to be convinced that consumers might eventually get on board and put money on the table because why put resources into it otherwise. Everyone else seems to struggle to come up with something that really interests people, even if they can't afford it or find too difficult to use. It'll be an uphill battle.

Agree with everything you said, I had some Nokias but also Sony Ericsson smartphones back in the day. I'm in the UK and if I recall when the iPhone launched the first Android handset did too as did the Palm Pre (I think it was the Pre?) at the same time. All gave phones the kick they needed. The rest is history. I've more or less stuck with iPhone.

Also I find my Apple Watch very useful, for the notifications but also the fitness and heart monitoring so the features you mentioned.

Apple will need to convince a LOT of people, others have mentioned other headsets, but they are targeting a specific market. Apple will be trying to target Jo Public, with a device that does what your phone does, but in glasses format, that's a tough hard sell I think.
 
The New York Times reaffirmed previous reports that the headset will feature a carbon fiber frame, a hip-mounted battery,

Ugh... That only means a cable that runs from the headset to the battery. And there i was hoping that the Apple will be the first one two remove cables from VR headsets. Guess not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pezimak
Its not a mass market item or a mass market price and unlike your iPhone and apple watch where the "average" punter could coo over one in the wild and think "maybe thats something I could get / afford" this wont be out in the real world or have a real world price.....A hard sell in my opinion but you have to start somewhere
 
The New York Times reaffirmed previous reports that the headset will feature a carbon fiber frame, a hip-mounted battery,

Ugh... That only means a cable that runs from the headset to the battery. And there i was hoping that the Apple will be the first one two remove cables from VR headsets. Guess not.
This thing is google to make google glass look Hip , literally :)
 
It is clear that most of the people here are not VR users. The VR games are something that really draws you in by immersion and by making your part of the experience. There are more than games in VR. There are actual communities. And they are like any other. The apple price is predictable. Nothing apple does is cheap. You need to pull out a mortgage for anything apple.

There are a lot of people who wont do VR due to needing a headset but cell phones took a little while to catch on.
This proposed product is not a VR product anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdriftmeyer
I suspect the apple car will be a "cheat" like the apple tv, just a car add on, like a radio, not a full car. The apple tv is just a tv add-on/set top box, not a full tv.
Exactly what I believe and I think we saw hints of it with the new upcoming enhanced CarPlay.
 
The only good use for VR is porn and games, that's the truth and you all know it. That is also why on every VR demonstration, they give people different games to play, and not editing some Word document. I really don't see why i would use VR for Facebook, browsing the net, working Excel sheet, or watching a movie.
 
So we have powerfull hardware but we can't play games like CS:GO, Quake and other army of AAA games, but we will get 3000€ AR headset instead. Thank you apple!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pezimak
So we have powerfull hardware but we can't play games like CS:GO, Quake and other army of AAA games, but we will get 3000€ AR headset instead. Thank you apple!
It's like a no-brainer, but it makes all the sense in the world why they didnt go down that route - Gaming have never really been Apple's main focus with their products. Maybe it should've been with VR, but they'll probably need some time to figure that one out.
 
:)
 

Attachments

  • vlcsnap-2014-07-15-16h57m19s190.png
    vlcsnap-2014-07-15-16h57m19s190.png
    857.2 KB · Views: 61
3 grand, 5 grand in au… to watch p0rn in VR ? and maybe 1 or 2 apple arcade games?

will they even sell 10’000 of these?
 
3 grand, 5 grand in au… to watch p0rn in VR ? and maybe 1 or 2 apple arcade games?

will they even sell 10’000 of these?
The proposed product is a mixed reality headset. Not a Virtual Reality headset and not a gaming headset like a PSVR.
 
The only good use for VR is porn and games, that's the truth and you all know it. That is also why on every VR demonstration, they give people different games to play, and not editing some Word document. I really don't see why i would use VR for Facebook, browsing the net, working Excel sheet, or watching a movie.
Well good thing this isn't a VR headset then I guess.
 
It's like a no-brainer, but it makes all the sense in the world why they didnt go down that route - Gaming have never really been Apple's main focus with their products. Maybe it should've been with VR, but they'll probably need some time to figure that one out.

You mean apart from the 30% cut they get from every single game or in game sale made on iOS devices. Most likely the main driver of its billions it's making every quarter from the App Store. Apple is at the forefront of THE biggest games market on the planet.
 
You mean apart from the 30% cut they get from every single game or in game sale made on iOS devices. Most likely the main driver of its billions it's making every quarter from the App Store. Apple is at the forefront of THE biggest games market on the planet.
They're getting 30% cut from every APP sold in their app store. Games are just part of those apps. But getting 30% cut from sells is not the same as focusing your products on gaming.
 
They can market it as a developer/beta product. I'm sure they can spin up something in their marketing. It's courageous, bla bla bla, due to how advance the tech is, bla bla bla. That way they can justify the $3k price.

Or they take a hit (god knows they can afford it) and drop the price to something somewhat reasonable so that the product has a chance to take off. In future generations they can release budget, mid range, and pro models. Once there is the "Reality SE" and the "Reality 3" then they can charge $3k for a "Reality Ultra". They are already doing that with iPhone so I don't see why it can't work.

Apple need to not be greedy if they want this to be a success. I know Apple has a very loyal (to a fault) customer base but at $3k out the door it's going to be a spectacular failure. They need to think about the long term.

Honestly, I'm not a huge headset fan. Tried them all and I think they suck because they focus mostly on gaming or whatever rubbish Facebook is up to these days. That said, I would actually be excited for an Apple headset. The Apple Watch is a cool accessory to the iPhone but I hate the tiny screen and awkward controls. If they could make a headset that extends the functionality of my iPhone and augments the world around me then that would be so cool.

Imagine wearing a headset and having facetime calls with people and they appear in a little window at the corner of your vision. Or if you are lost and need directions your mini map would extend and provide overlays of directions onto the streets around you. Or if you are walking past a shop you can see how it's reviewed as stars pop up beside the door or on the windows. You could also see real time stats like weather, heart beat, steps, etc.
 
They're getting 30% cut from every APP sold in their app store. Games are just part of those apps. But getting 30% cut from sells is not the same as focusing your products on gaming.

It is when your making billions from it, don’t kid yourself, mobile gaming is by fact the worlds largest games market, iPhones are well regarded as great gaming devices, Apple will be making billions from games, they always demo games on new iPhones and sometimes iPads too. Promoting how much more powerful the latest model is. They aren’t targeted gaming devices but neither do they ignore games in their promotional material.
 
I'm amazed how many people jump on to assume the product is half-baked and that it will fail without even seeing it. Regardless of what some people think, Apple is not stupid. They definitely did their homework and consider it worth it if they invested billions and so many resources in R&D for so long.

As for the price, this is clearly aimed for the developers and not for the end-users. Most serious studios can easily afford it. This is a first gen product with barely any content at launch aimed to embark the developers to produce content for the platform. Of course some enthusiast will stil buy it, but this is not what it's aimed at; it's more like a dev-kit. End-user hardware will come in the future at more reasonable prices, once the technology advances.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.