Something better happen soon, or we are in trouble

[krossfyter]

my sentiments exactly rekras...

to hell with that mhz crap...im tired of it....for what the majority of people are doing both in the average user pool and specialist (pro) pool...apples mhz are good enough. the important part in computing is what apple has nipped in the bud but these peecee weenies just dong get it. these guys are behind the times in terms of what the computer should be.

 

[neseus]

APPLE BEHIND PC? BULL.

I have a PC and a mac, my pc's mghtz is higher, and my mac still kicks butt. in my experience, my imac is faster than any PC i've ever worked on. As far as apple dragging their feet in everything, i also say bull crap. Apple has worked less on technicalities and more on fundementals such as size (its sad when the g4 cube is half the size of microsoft's xbox... you'd think they'd get the point that smaller is better) and ease of updating, software, etc. Notice how pentium 4 came out after g4. if ANYTHING, the PC world is behind the mac world. they are the ones that seem to be copying all of apple's ideas. just my opinion...

 

[mischief]

Okay, what's the game plan?

Tidbits from Apple's campus:

Steve wants Apple introducing a new toy (HW or SW) every 3 months.

The consumer Desktop and Pro portable jump technologies first as a less sophisticated consumer in the Desktop and more pro consumer in the Laptop gives you good over all feedback in the 2 strongest markets. (Please don't argue that point, I sold the freakin things in an all Mac store for 18 months)

There is something called "Mystic" under development that has internal rumors about a device that does ALL of the things we've been speculating about for iPod. Logical conclusion: Apple will produce 3 iPods total: A hybrid camera, a PCS/palmtop, and the MP3 version we already have.

Conclusion:

It makes sense that the G4 has "a lot of life left in it" if you assume it's gonna be in the iMac/iBook. We'll see a new iPod in about a month (3 months after MWSF). We'll see new Towers at MWNY along with X.2 and G5.

The statement that iMac LCD was the first Mac designed specifically to run X should be taken to mean that ALL the other CPU's are under major revision.

Assuming that 3 out of 4 CPUs AND the OS are all being revved it becomes clear why there's a bottleneck.

We can assume there will be a whole new case/Mobo in the new tower from the age of the existing design. From what we've been hearing the new case will be controversial and amazing. Relax, we'll soon be smokin cigars to Apple's pro-line once again.

 

[MacKenzie999]

One Graphics Pros Opinion

Hey folks...

I'm one of those graphics professionals so frequenty mentioned here. I've been a mac user since the eighties, and among my circle of designer friends & acquaintences I am considered to be pretty knowledgeable about hardware & software. In reality my knowledge is only enough to make me dangerous, and I would never compare myself with any of you tecchie types, but I definately pay more attention to the types of issues discussed here than most of my designer buds.

Anyway, my point (yes there actually is one!) is that a pretty good chunk of graphics pros love their macs, don't buy new systems often enough to bother keeping up with the pc joneses, and consider their machines to be good enough. Sure you can make some pretty good arguments for pc superiority, but unless the difference between the two platforms becomes staggeringly one-sided I wouldn't expect a flood of graphics pros to go dump their systems, invest in new software and learn all the idiosyncracies of a similar but inferior OS just so they can have the current fastest bus or whatever. I bought one of the new towers released in January 2001 and at the time it was fantastic. In the year since I bought it, it has been totally eclipsed by the newer machines, nobody here would brag about my 466, but you know what? It's still fantastic. Maybe if pcs came out with something like, I don't know, thought-recognition software, then I would consider migrating to the dark side, but you know what? Short of something that radical I will probably stick with what I already know and love. I'm sure I speak for many other graphics pros as well. Just my $.02

 

[mcrain]

Wintel user's comment

Hey everyone.

First off, I'm a wintel user! Yes, I'm one of the hoards of bad people that have bought totally into the megahertz myth, etc... I've been one of those typical wintel people that love to make fun of friends and their silly macs.

Second, so you don't flame me too bad, I'm considering switching from wintel machines to apples. That being said, I've been doing extensive research to try to figure out why people like macs so much, and so I can feel justified in buying a mac. I don't want to buy a machine that's more expensive and over a gigahertz slower than a wintel machine (if it in fact is slower).

Ok, here's an observation. Everyone keeps clamoring for a new chip, faster motherboard, different memory chips, whatever. Newsflash, wintel machines are constantly being superceded and made obsolete. You should be happy that doesn't happen nearly as often with macs.

(random thought - maybe apple's next unveiling at the next show will be a computer and peripherals that use firewire 2).

Another observation. Apple makes by far the nicest looking laptops of anyone. Apple also makes one heck of an OS. I've played with OSX on a friend's machine, and am very impressed with how nice it looks, and works.

Final observation. Apple is trying to take on the world all by itself. Apple uses one chip type (motorola g3's and g4's) in the computers that it makes, that use the OS that it also makes.

Wintel's big advantage isn't that the chips are "faster" or that Widows is better... the advantage is that Microsoft has nothing better to do than work on its software. Intel has nothing better to do than make its chips faster/better. AMD also.

Wintel machines are made by______. (fill in the blank). Dell, HP, Compaq, IBM, Sony, etc. etc. etc. all make wintel machines, not to mention thousands of companies that build boxes from the ground up.

Competition has led to much much faster evolution of the wintel pc.

In my humble wintel opinion, Apple should consider creating an OSX version that runs on pcs. Apple should also consider putting out computer models that make use of other chips from other manufacturers.

Now, everyone is going to say that the big benefit to an "apple" is that everything works, and works well. In addition, there are speed advantages with the chip/OS combination.

All I have to say to that is, I would have considered switching if I hadn't had a chance to work with OSX. So, maybe more people would consider Apple computers a viable option to wintel machines if they used a stripped down version of OSX on a beige box.

Remember, wintel users have been conditioned by Intel and Gates to think regular upgrades are commonplace. That conditioning has led to a constant and ready supply of people looking to buy computers. Somehow apple needs to get those people to consider their product. The easiest way to do that (since Apple doesn't sell in more than a few stores, and none around here, oh, and they don't like to stock their products) is to port the software out and then once people use it, convince them that it works much better on an apple.

By the way, the imac's neat looking, but for goodness sakes, talk about a machine that can't be upgraded. At least I can tear apart my piece of crap wintel machine and add hard drive space, cards, etc... Heck, I can even change the mother board if I wanted to.

FYI, I'm sick to death of Windows, and would use OSX in a heartbeat. The only things keeping me from buying an apple are cost and a lack of solid information comparing apple's to pc's.

One final note. I have the utmost respect for Apple, and would be happy as can be if they ate into the Wintel market share, but to do so, something has to change.

M

 

[BlowJobBilly]

mcrain, you just suck, because you dont know alot about macs. so how can you do statements with your pee-cee toilet-machine knowledge.

even a mac g4 400mhz kicks a pentiums 1200mhz ass'.

intel, microsoft are the most evil companies (incl. mcdonalds) in the world, they make you believe a lie, when youre to stupid to think different.

[ednote:

if you don't have anything nice to say... well you know the rest...

seriously, this is uncalled for...

arn
]

 

[rickag]

mcrain
Ignore BlowJobBilly, he obviously has nothing meaningful to add to the topic. Ranting and gutter language indicates a lack of knowledge.

 

[rastalin94]

mcrain you brought up a good point, people need to actually use OS X to understand the difference. I have been wanting a mac to replace my PC for a few months now, but it was not till after actually using OS X at a friend's house that I was just floored by OS X. Using iMoive I was able to do stuff so much more smoothly than I have ever been able to on a PC. I was using a Ti-Laptop that was 233 MHz slower than my PC, yet the machine was so much more fun to work with. OS X can just do things that Windows can not do no matter how many MHz you throw at it. I would take my friends 666MHz laptop over a 2.2 GHz PIV for video editing in a heart beat. I am starting to understand that computers are all about the OS and not about MHz.

 

[mcrain]

Does apple want to grow beyond 4-5%?

What people don't seem to want to accept is that mac users aren't necessarily smarter than PC users, they just have exposure to something different. That something different happens to work very well.

My comment is intended to do one thing. Demonstrate that PC users aren't all brainwashed by some evil company like intel or windows. The real problem apple has is exposure. The only way to get exposure to apple computers is to buy one from apple. The only way to get exposure to an apple os, is to buy an apple computer with the apple os on it. The only way to get exposure to itunes, iDVD, ieverything else, is to buy an apple, with apple's os, and then use the iwhatever.

To a person who has a beige box already, like me, that's a big step!

If I could just have a little exposure to the apple products (hey, memo to apple, a store demo or two that are in stock might help) or have the apple os to try (maybe just a cut-down sample version like they do for video games), I'd be a lot less nervous about the big step of buying a new computer, new os, new software, new everything.

Hey BJ Billy - I have to respond, just cause I do. As a PC user who is considering an apple purchase, I'd venture a guess that I'm far more well rounded in my knowledge base than you. Not to mention open minded. I've done research, and am familiar with many speed comparisons between apple and pc's, but as I can tell you, those tests are hard to find and are not always conclusive. I've also extensively used PC's, Unix machines, and apples (although I haven't used apples much for quite a while).

Let me ask you all a question. Which person do you think will have better constructive critisism of a company and its products? A person who blindly accepts that company's products and defends that company like a rabid dog, or someone who has no personal interest in the company, is a longstanding user of the competitor's products, but has no ill will towards the company? If apple wants to beat "wintel" at its own game, it needs to listen to one of those two people.

If apple has any intention of increasing its market share, it really should listen to people like me, because it's people like me that they need to "bring into the fold."

By the way, if you think Intel or Windows are the evil "corporations," you've forgotten my boss. Ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[mcrain]

hey Rasta, that's exactly how I got hooked on apple. I started playing with my friends ti notebook at 500 mhz and it's tons faster than my PC running at the same speed.

I think if more people could get their hands on apples (Hey Steve Jobs, you might want to think about putting demo's in stores or maybe stocking some of the computers you sell), more people would buy them.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

im glad mcrain came around because i think he represents a very select group of peecee users. he is intelligient. has tried to educate himself. but i still ignorant.

no offense intended mcrain, but i find it so funny when pc users come in and tell everyone why apple is "failing" and what apple needs to do.

and as for your question at the end. all i can say is i have no loyalty to apple. everytime i buy a computer or advise a friend or coworker. i dont just blurt out "buy an apple" most apple users do not have some blinding allegiance to the company. we are fond of the company no doubt, and we like our computers but i have to say i would jump ship in an instant if something better were around. i think those who read my posts here know that i often critisize apple, and most people here spend their entire time on the boards pointing out problems with apple. i know you are probably just responding to billyboys moronic response, but its still insulting to the rest of us.

the "port osx to wintel" idea is not new. its not something you came up with. the idea though is one of the worse things apple could do. im not going to even outline them because there are at least 3 threads here i know of that discuss this in detail.

before you start lecturing everyone and announcing your plans that will whip apple into shape please take some time to look at what others have thought of in the past, and what apple has actually done in the past.

im glad you have taken a liking to osx and apple machines, and i can appreciate that making the jump can be frightening, but dont think that because you have suddenly seen the light that this has also imparted special knowledge on you. im sorry but you are nothing special. and although you may have played with an apple computer and liked it, this doesnt mean you understand apple's current market situation.

if all you want is information thats great and people here will be happy to give it to you, but dont insult us by your ignorant ramblings because we were all a new customer at some point and we have all either taken the time to learn about apple or we have kept our mouths shut until we do get all the info.

if you want bench marks there is always barefeets, and if you want a history lesson, well start out reading some of the appropriate threads here and pick up some of the books mentioned if you want more. then get back to us with your thoughts after you have educated yourself, until then we dont want to hear your ignorant ramblings.

i know i sound a bit harsh here but people like you are a big part of the problem. you have educated yourself just enough to be arrogant and opinionated but havent educated yourself enough to overcome your ignorance.

if you truly are interested in apple, then start by asking questions not by giving commands. im sure if you did this you wouldnt get jerks like billyboy mouthing off to you (i wont even discuss what the problem is with people like that).

i hope i dont sound to mean, or insulting here. i dont intend to be, im just trying to let you know that you need some more info before you can pretend to know whats best for apple. so please ask questions. that will bring you to an understanding faster than ignorant rants.

 

[krossfyter]

take a breather....ask questions...research....then do it again. this is the only way one can learn. then its all up to you which way you want to go. i agree with ambitious lemon.

 

[mcrain]

I fully agree, but...

I fully agree that the "best" way for someone to become knowledgable with apple and its products is to research, research, etc... However, Apple is a publicly traded company. Their goal is to make money. My point is NOT that I'm right and they need to listen to me, but that Apple needs to get people who don't want to spend a month researching things to consider apple products. In my opinion, the best way to get people to switch is to show them what you are offering.

As for saying I'm ranting or ignorant, or in some way insulting apple loyalists, if I have in any way offended anyone, I apologize. However, I have been researching apple, its history, its products, benchmarks, etc...

I'm not here to say I know more than anyone else, all I'm saying is that I did not consider apple until I had exposure to apple products. As such, I don't think it is a bad idea for apple to consider actions to increase the exposure of its products to people who are considering a new computer.

 

[mcrain]

mcrain is an ignorant PC user!

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
im glad mcrain came around because i think he represents a very select group of peecee users. he is intelligient. has tried to educate himself. but i still ignorant.

no offense intended mcrain, but i find it so funny when pc users come in and tell everyone why apple is "failing" and what apple needs to do.

AmbitiousLemon, you accused me of being ignorant, etc... and possibly offending all mac users by my comments... I have only one comment... I'm not a member of some "very select group of peecee users." You seem to underestimate the remaining 95% of computer users out there. Peecee users are just like mac users. We buy what we know and what we think is the best. Which again points out Apple's one failing - lack of exposure to the marketplace.

I'm one PC user who is more than happy to say that if I had had exposure to apple before I bought my last computer, I would have been a Mac user already.

Exposure leads to sales.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

Mcrain: im sorry if i offended you i tried to say that wasnt my intent. perhaps i should have used the word nieve instead of ignorant, but it all boils down to the same thing. all of us who use macs were in the same position pc users were in at some point. we either had no computer and entered the market exposed mostly to pcs or we entered having a pc. but rather than just buy what was offered us as we entered compusa we explored our options and quickly found apple to be the best choice for us. you said yourself if you had know about apple you would have been an apple user. there is nothing wrong with admitting you made an uneducated choice. especially since now you seem to be interested in fixing that bad decision. but just admit that you did in fact make an uneducated, nieve, ignorant (whatever you want to call it so it has less teeth) choice.

the reason i went off on how you shouldnt be lecturing apple, is because you made a suggestion that has been tried in one form and failed miserably and has been explored in other forms and never found to be worth exploring further. you seemed to think your idea was something new. but port macos to non apple hardware was tried and it almost killed apple. porting macos to x86 machines has been explored by apple and many on these boards and has been found to be a bad idea.

as far as exposure, apple has limited funds. they cant do a complete media blitz. but think about what they ahve done. they ahve been on the cover of Time. they get reported on in the news everytime they release a new product. the ipod has gotten quite a bit of attention. tey are featured in many movies and tv shows (if you watched these shows without knowing what the real world was like you would think apple had 95%). Apple gets a lot of press, all good. Soon the ipod will be released to wintel computers with a 10gb harddrive. i think that will give some exposure.

Apple is doing what they can. But i hate to say it but you are not the average pc user. Most still have the belief that apple sucks. and they refuse to look into it. overcoming that is a lot more difficult than simply porting osx to wintel. all this will do is canabalize apple's already small market share. apple makes money from hardware. it attracts people with software but doesnt make moeny from it. if they lose the hardware sales they will lose money. And creating a "scaled down" version of osx will only do an injustice to osx, in addition to sucking up valuable R&D time and money. Apple is on the right path. they are getting constant free advertising from the media. they have attracted the linux community who is a lot easier to attract because they must be educated if they left the ms world, these people are easier to attract than windows users. and so in a slow progression apple will collect more market share.

but the reason i went off saying that you should do some research wasnt because you need to do much research to chose apple over wintel, i was saying do research before making market plans for apple. if you had you would have learned some of the things i just said and much much more.

all you need to do to understand why apple is better is to use one for a few minutes. apple has been working on the way stores display their machines and has even created its own line of stores. all of this will give people their 10 minutes on an apple.

again sorry if i was a bit harsh earlier. i didnt intend to be. i just get tired of people spouting off the same old bad ideas when clearly they havent researched apple's past and present.

 

[Grokgod]

Exposure?

There are Apple stores that allow everyone to be exposed to Apple products!

Its everyones choice and responsiblilty to expose themselves to the information that will help them make an educated decision.

Pcee users buy PC because its easliy available and they believe that there isnt software out there for the mac. Which was true for a while if your into games. Pcee users are gamers and the common man. Just like VHS that once beat out Beta which was a superior tape, but all the Porn was being made oh VHS. So the common man won out.

Mac's are for more discriminating tastes which takes a more discriminating mind to yearn to understand and seek the information that will lead them to a greater understanding.

Everyone on the planet knows that Mac's exist, if you didnt know they they existed then I can understand that you werent exposed to its user experience.

This is the era that Pcee's will begin to die, and OSX will being to take over. Barring any bad events like imacs not shipping, etc

Get on board with the new generation and if your worried about exposure, get all you Pcee friend to turn away from madness and look at the future of computing , that what i do!

 

[mcrain]

Re: Exposure?

Originally posted by Grokgod
There are Apple stores that allow everyone to be exposed to Apple products!

Its everyones choice and responsiblilty to expose themselves to the information that will help them make an educated decision.

Pcee users buy PC because its easliy available and they believe that there isnt software out there for the mac.

Wow, talk about superiority complex. There are I think 30 or so Apple stores. The closest one to me is 3 hours away, and I'm fairly close to one! Beyond that, there are a few apple authorized resellers, but the one's near here have no stock! CompUSA sells apple, but the two stores I drove hours to visit, guess what, had no stock!

It is not a consumer's job to expose themselves to products. If a company wants business, it has to make its product available, and also promote them.

Apple is the best at getting free press (excluding windows' free press related to the anti-trust suit), but the average joe buys PC, not because its easily available, but because it's the ONLY thing available.

So far I have been flamed for being ignorant or uneducated or a basic bad PC guy. What no one seems to understand is that if I am willing to buy apple after having seen and used their product, there have to be others who would also, if only they had access to apple stuff.

You bring up the Beta vs. VHS argument. Beta was better, and would have won had they merely exposed more people to the product (even if that meant licensing to porn studeos). But, instead of doing that, they sat back, and users of Beta kept saying that everyone who bought VHS were dumb, undeducation morons who just didn't take the time to education themselves.

I like apple too damn much for it to suffer the same fate as Beta.

Apple, if your listening, you need more stores, more "shelf space" in major retail outlets (Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc...), and you need to demand that your sellers stock the products they sell.

Fiat may be a better car for all I know than the cars sold at the local dealer, but if I never see one or test drive one, how am I supposed to know that? Am I supposed to fly to Italy and test drive one? If I don't buy a Fiat, is that my fault in some way?

I may not have reviewed everyone elses suggestions in the past for Apple expanding and succeeding, so I know what I'm suggesting isn't exactly a novel idea, but the point of this thread is that "something has to happen soon."

By the way, let me dispell one of the mac megamyths. PC users aren't all brainwashed by Microsoft or Intel into thinking there isn't software for macs, or macs are slower, or that mac's just aren't any good. Fact of the matter is most PC users decide one day to buy a computer and go to the store to see what's for sale. When they don't see macs, guess what, they don't buy macs. It's not because Gates is evil, it's because of shelf space and exposure. Go to your local Best buy and watch how many middle age people come in to buy their first computer or to buy one for their kids who know nothing about computers.

So, I guess because I'm frustrated that Apple isn't selling more because it doesn't sell their products except in very very limited places, you should all flame me. Bring it on Mr. Betamax, I'm a big boy.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

McRain: dude chill a bit. no one is attacking you. we are merely asking you think before you speak. not so much to ask.

your last post was just another blatant example of how you mouth off without understanding what is going on.

the imac was the best selling computer ever. the imac2 has beat the original. these things are flying off the shelves like you wouldnt believe (or perhaps would since you couldnt find one) to confound the situation apple has had production problems with some of the slower imacs. it isnt good. but its something that just happened. the lack of supply is new and is temporary. this is why you couldnt fin one at your local stores. its not that there is never macs at these stores. if you had asked people at the stores where the macs were or spent a second or two to look into the matter you would realize that this just happened. but instead you jump to the conclusion that macs are never in stock anywhere.

and as much as you like to "dispell one of the mac megamyths" you clearly again dont know what you are talking about. Apple doesnt have macs in radioshack and bestbuy because of the simple reason that the salesmen were lying to customers. saying some of the things you claim people dont believe. apple had the same problems at compusa but was able to convince compusa to hire special apple certified salesmen. mac users say these things about pc users not because we are mean. we say them because we run into people everyday who believe the things you claim no one believes. when we go to stores we see salesmen convincing ma and pa not to buy a mac even though thats what they thought they wanted. the salesmen say things like there is no mac software, or mac's cant read email from pc users, or macs can visit any websites because they are all made by pcs because everyone uses pcs.

if you have spent time in a store you will notice most new users go straight for the macs and are led away by salesmen who dont understand them. these boards are full of these stories.

apple IS taking steps to correct these problems. and yes there are only a few stores but they are very new and apple is opening more all the time. apple is putting apple certified salesmen in stores that will allow it. and you better believe apple is trying to meet demand and get those imacs out there.

instead of saying there are no macs everywhere i looked THIS is apples problem! why dont you ask people here hey guys i couldnt find an imac anywhere i looked whats going on is this normal? people would respond in a much more friendly manner if you asked questions when you didnt understand what was going on, instead of making accusations and pretending you can solve all of apple's "problems."

so dude chill. and ask questions because you clearly dont know everything about apple. its ok to ask questions you know. we will all think a lot more of you in fact.

no one here is intending to attack you. we are glad you have found apple and liked what you found. we would love to help you ease your way into a nice shiny new mac. we are just a little bothered that you keep going on the attack with ideas that are unresearched and only based on your very limited experience.

when any one of us first got into macs we didnt know what we were doing. we didnt know everything about the apple market. but we learned slowly and asked questions to slowly learn what was going on. we have all been where you are now, its nothing to be ashamed of. its ok to ask questions. because if you dont and you just mouth off without knowing the whole story then you just make yourself sound nieve.

 

[krossfyter]

Re: Exposure?

Originally posted by Grokgod


This is the era that Pcee's will begin to die, and OSX will being to take over.

I hope your right man...I hope your right. There are a number if people where im from who are peecee users and are thinking about switching because of osx and the new imac.


awsome

 

[Traveler]

Style vs. Substance, a defence of Mcrain

OK this was going to be a nice long discussion of the mcrain vs. ambitious lemon debate, however... my motivation has just been completely depleted by the desire to sleep. So, I will only say this: Lemon, you are in many cases correct in telling mcrain to ask more questions and make fewer assumptions. Afterall, apple IS trying to increase it's exposure and has been doing so for quite a while. However, my real point is that the effectiveness of your argument is lessened by the smug, passive-agressive attitude you seem to have adopted towards mcrain's arguments. I can just see you now leaning back in your ergonomically designed computer chair, laughing softly to yourself as you read each of mcrains responces on your brand new g4 powerbook and then clucking pompously while you dispense your nuggets of wisdom to your newly adopted pupil. This is the problem with many Mac owners. Our egos are falsely inflated by what we like to think of as superior consuming habits when in reality it was more likely pure chance that we were exposed to Apples before pc's. We are not savvy, investigative purchasers, we are just lucky. And we have grown too comfortable in our little niche. We feel safe and secure knowing that our incestuous 5% share can persist just as long as we all keep doing our part to support apple with a new purchase every 2.5 years. And all this makes it easy for us to dismiss valid points offhand. But Lemon... you don't have all the answers any more than mcrain does so stop acting like you do. It certainly doesn't engender good will to all our potential apple brethren. I agree with Mcrain when he says apple needs more exposure. In my opinion apple should have tackled the issue of exposure a long time ago. The retail stores are years late in coming and putting up with CompuUSA's salesmen shenanagans for so long is just plain negligence. Clearly, appearing in virtually every movie and tv show for the past 5 years doesn't cut it. So instead of patting young grasshopper on the head and telling him to run off and do some more research, it is we that should pay attention him. He's like a focus group dream. A member of the consuming public who can clearly express his reasons for consuming the way he does and at the same time propose better ways for us to approach him as a potential customer. Now, to be fair to apple I can find no blatant missteps in their marketing game plan but neither can I profess to know exactly what that game plan is and obviously something is amiss or else the world would all be using macs... because they are the better system I trust Apple to do the right thing in the end but it wouldn't hurt for them to listen up a little bit.

 

[arn]

Re: Style vs. Substance, a defence of Mcrain

Originally posted by Traveler
But Lemon... you don't have all the answers any more than mcrain does so stop acting like you do. It certainly doesn't engender good will to all our potential apple brethren. I agree with Mcrain when he says apple needs more exposure. In my opinion apple should have tackled the issue of exposure a long time ago. The retail stores are years late in coming and putting up with CompuUSA's salesmen shenanagans for so long is just plain negligence.

I rejoined this thread late.... but I can kind of get the jist of it... I guess a lot of it is "perspective"...

a PC user might come to the Apple side and say "hey guys - Apple needs more exposure..." and give examples of how...

hmm.... I think the reason it invokes ire in the Apple-following is that it's obvious Apple needs more exposure... many of the Mac users from 10 years ago was saying the same thing - Apple needs more exposure...

It's like telling a drowning man - "hey - you should try and swim..."

The point is Apple's exposure/growth is better now than it's been in a long time.... mcrain - realize the fact that you are even considering switching is probably from the recent expansion of Apple's exposure (which includes Mac OS X itself, iApps etc... as well as stores/marketing)

Anyhow, mcrain... imagine that you do switch... and in 5 years, Apple has 10% marketshare and there's an Apple store in every major city... and then all these potential switchers start talking about how Apple needs more exposure... and here are some ideas....

As for OS X on Intel... I have my reasons why Apple will not do this... for my views on this: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php3?threadid=2215&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

arn

 

[krossfyter]

wow i had no idea that this post debate would ever come to this...where arn would have to join in and kinda calm it down a little. thats impressive there guys. i hope the both of you... mcrain and ambitious lemon... can agree to disagree and mutually respect each other no matter what differences in opionions one may have. both of you all have great things to add to this forum.... i can also tell that you all are not short on intelligence. rock on to the both of you. much respect.

 

[Traveler]

Well said Arn

You have expressed my sentiments in a way that I could not.

 

[humantech]

keep in mind

keep in mind a few points -
For apple to upgrade to a g5 chip ( which have been testing for quite some time, and starting to be available in quantity) , they need a new motherboard. Without one, the peformance gains of the g5 will seem small, which is a marketing nightmare.
For Apple to release a new motherboard, they have to have a compelling feature set, or its a temporary, waste of money fix.
For apple to release the latest and greatest feature set, standards have to be set, or its nubus and adb all over again. This feature set will need to include firewire 2, possible usb 2, WHATEVER the predominant fast ram architecture is ( whose to say ddr is it?), and an overall bus width fast enough to accomodate the likely added system overhead of os X in its 64 bit incarnation. As of right now, there is no critical mass of usb 2, firewire 2 is just now getting through its process of standardizing and ddr ram may be in short supply.
This is not a simple matter of Apple sitting on their laurels and going " We dont care if intel and amd have faster chips. la-la-la" this is business. This is war ( look at the landscape in the pc world. Most of the main players and competitors went away in the consumer space last year. That leaves apple an awesome opportunity to move Seriously into the consumer market, which is a surefire way to get the analysts off their backs relating to their market share)
Also, for the last two years( the years where apples mhz progress has been lackluster), Apple has had their primary brainpower in OS X development. Most of the OS X crew has now been put into place in other, hardware and lifestyle device departments. The new motherboard will happen, which will have a g5 sitting on top of it.
As an Apple specialist reseller, I see new users using the macs every day in my store. These are increasingly pc users looking to switch. OS X is the key. These people dont even ask the processor speed. They see the capabilities. The things their pc WONT do, and the words intel and amd never come up. The computing landscape is changing. Apple needs higher performance for servers. Everything else digital and important, the rule in today, right now - at a lower mhz. I have pc graphics and video guys( AND SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS NOW THAT OS X IS HERE)with brand new, tricked out pc's coming in to get their trade in value so they can step up to the plate on a platform that "just works".
I want the G5 very badly, but I think everyone will be pleasantly suprised at macworld because Apple didnt just stick a G5 into a quicksilver and call it a G5 in january. And as for Apple being in trouble, I would worry more about Dell. With OS X out the door, apples back into hardware development, and things are about to heat up. I almost feel bad for the pc competitors, but well, I'll take good care of their old customers for them.....
humantech

 

[Dunepilot]

Thank you humantech

Now that we've got back to the point of this thread....

humantech has just put me back in a good mood after trundling through all of the mac melancholy (and I'm sometimes of that mindset as much as anyone else) of the posts of the last couple of days

I know it gets frustrating that Apple doesn't always do what we want it to, but despite their marketing leaving a lot to be desired (as has been mentioned, product placement seems to have had little effect) humantech has reminded us all of just how much talent there is at Apple.

I personally think that we should maybe look at the current G4 Quicksilver line as equivalent to the Yikes PCI G4 that came out when the G4 was first released, i.e. as an interim solution until the technology for the G5 is ready, and probably introduce a bunch of other architecture changes that won't let the chip down.

[on a more negative note - let's just hope Moto don't cock this up, or keep on with their "oh, there's a lot of life left in the G4" line, which frankly is
an insult to consumers' intelligence]