I haven't read the whole thread, but you guys are either a) stupid or b) not really in the market for an air if you think the Z (1"-1.3" thickness taper) is in the same class as the MBA (0.16"-0.76" thickness taper).
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***Sony Vaio Z*** Stone-cold killer! It's going to be Apple Vs Sony for Arrandale imo
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You are preaching to the choir.
The design and user friendliness of Apple gear is in a class by itself. You are right that ignoring it and just focusing on CPU speed and memory capacity is shortsighted.First few posts/pages of the thread.
You're right, I clicked from the main page under Mac Hardware...my bad.
It looks like you are not following PC laptops as closely as MacBooks:
* multi-touch trackpads nowadays are available even on netbooks (like Dell Inspiron Mini 10)
* unibody aluminum has both proc and cons vs carbon fiber or magnesium alloy. In case of Sony VAIO Z, Sony clearly has an advantage of being much lighter and probably more structurally sound. Soft aluminum is definitely not more durable than magnesium alloy (or carbon fiber).
* best integrated power management and sleep features? Hatrd even to understand what exactly you are talking about. No docking stations, no hibernation, no hot switching between IGP and descrete graphics. Apple is far behind in this department.
* " industry leading led quality displays". Really. They do not lead in anything. Other companies offer everything Apple does and then some. Only white lED backlit for Apple whereas HP and DELL (and others) offer RGB LED backlit (white LED backlit too - but this is a cheaper option)
* "battery life that surpasses anyone in the industry" Really. How about HP EliteBook 6930p with 14 hours battery life? And there are plenty PC laptops with batteyr life exceeding that of the MacBooks
* "the fastest and cleverest transfer port with firewire" I wanna cry.
Here is a list of external ports for HP EliteBook 8540W:3 USB 2.0
2 USB 3.0
1 eSATA
1 external VGA monitor
1 DisplayPort
1 1394a
1 stereo microphone in
1 stereo headphone/line-out
1 AC power
1 RJ-11
1 RJ-45
1 docking connector
1 secondary battery connector
So in case of MacBooks: no eSata, no HDMI, no USB 3.0, no Card Reader. Not really an "industry leading" material the way I see it.
Define "the same class". To me it's a ultra-mobility class which first and foremost is defined by weight. VAIO Z and MacBook Air are definitely in the same class. So unless you have to send your laptop someplace in manila envelope, I'd say you can cross shop both of them.
I found it interesting that Laptopmag.com, which did the review of the HP EliteBook 6930p, which you linked to, rated the MB Pro 13 inch as its overall number one laptop in its most recent roundup of November 4, 2009. Make of that what you will.It looks like you are not following PC laptops as closely as MacBooks:
* multi-touch trackpads nowadays are available even on netbooks (like Dell Inspiron Mini 10)
* unibody aluminum has both proc and cons vs carbon fiber or magnesium alloy. In case of Sony VAIO Z, Sony clearly has an advantage of being much lighter and probably more structurally sound. Soft aluminum is definitely not more durable than magnesium alloy (or carbon fiber).
* best integrated power management and sleep features? Hatrd even to understand what exactly you are talking about. No docking stations, no hibernation, no hot switching between IGP and descrete graphics. Apple is far behind in this department.
* " industry leading led quality displays". Really. They do not lead in anything. Other companies offer everything Apple does and then some. Only white lED backlit for Apple whereas HP and DELL (and others) offer RGB LED backlit (white LED backlit too - but this is a cheaper option)
* "battery life that surpasses anyone in the industry" Really. How about HP EliteBook 6930p with 14 hours battery life? And there are plenty PC laptops with batteyr life exceeding that of the MacBooks
* "the fastest and cleverest transfer port with firewire" I wanna cry.
3 USB 2.0
2 USB 3.0
1 eSATA
1 external VGA monitor
1 DisplayPort
1 1394a
1 stereo microphone in
1 stereo headphone/line-out
1 AC power
1 RJ-11
1 RJ-45
1 docking connector
1 secondary battery connector
So in case of MacBooks: no eSata, no HDMI, no USB 3.0, no Card Reader. Not really an "industry leading" material the way I see it.
Obviously MacBook has its strong sides and followers. I read the article that you pointed to. As I understand they did not have the "overall" category. MacBook pro won the category that just happened to be listed first out of 7. It was a Thin-and-Light category which was probably fair (VAIO Z was not released yet)
I think what makes the z attractive and what basically sums up a lot of the points made in this thread..
is that:
1. it's the same or smaller footprint as the 13" mbp and is lighter (footprint is more important to me than weight though)
2. a great matte screen which isn't even offered by apple in anything less than 15" (this automatically rules out the 13" mbp for me)
3. has higher screen resolution than the 15" mbp. 1600x900 or 1920x1080
4. the power of a 17" mbp
5. basically the same battery life as a mbp. *or better with extended battery
6. starting price of a midrange 15"
I won't be able to comment on how good Sony Customer Service is until I use it (so it's an unknown). But I am very familiar with Apple Care Service and it's the best of any company I have ever used to date.
I agree it does make you feel good knowing great service is backing you up even if you never need it. That's why I like apple so much. Sony is most likely very good also (I just have no experience with it).
Now, I have a Sony & Apple store in the same shopping center only 5 miles away from me so I'd probably be lucky going with either brand regarding customer service.
So basically in my eyes, customer service is the only factor separating the sony z from a mbp. Since both stores are so close to me, personally I doubt I can go wrong with either. Other peoples experiences may be different.
is that:
1. it's the same or smaller footprint as the 13" mbp and is lighter (footprint is more important to me than weight though)
2. a great matte screen which isn't even offered by apple in anything less than 15" (this automatically rules out the 13" mbp for me)
3. has higher screen resolution than the 15" mbp. 1600x900 or 1920x1080
4. the power of a 17" mbp
5. basically the same battery life as a mbp. *or better with extended battery
6. starting price of a midrange 15"
I won't be able to comment on how good Sony Customer Service is until I use it (so it's an unknown). But I am very familiar with Apple Care Service and it's the best of any company I have ever used to date.
I agree it does make you feel good knowing great service is backing you up even if you never need it. That's why I like apple so much. Sony is most likely very good also (I just have no experience with it).
Now, I have a Sony & Apple store in the same shopping center only 5 miles away from me so I'd probably be lucky going with either brand regarding customer service.
So basically in my eyes, customer service is the only factor separating the sony z from a mbp. Since both stores are so close to me, personally I doubt I can go wrong with either. Other peoples experiences may be different.
You are preaching to the choir.
It felt like the church was empty for a while.
@Lilou
Ah ok, they 've finally caught up and have some semblance of multitouch...fantastic.
Btw, how may peripherals do you know with usb 3.0, how many devices for musicians, photographers, video editors...right I didn't think so. What's with you people, if apple had ditched the de facto standard in all these which is firewire and had gone with usb 3.0 you 'd be all over them attacking them for going for an as yet unused standard (like the parody with display port). Now that the've kept the standard up until usb 3.0 gets some market proliferation, you are attacking them for not adapting fast enough. Make up your minds, you can't have it both way.And stop throwing garbage in these forums, here's the link you posted and what you say about that "industry leading" battery life hp that surpasses apple:
"When you attach the extended batterycrucial for getting that 14-hour battery lifethe notebook weighs 6 pounds, unheard of for a thin-and-light machine. The battery adds so much weight and heft to the backside of the notebook that it cant balance upright when on a lap." Your very own link for crying out loud...
And oh, it has a display port as well, that unused apple standard...
And for crying out loud, how many ports are there, there can't be a single unbroken line in this thing...how many ports does one need? Oh, in the 15 or so ports, they didn't manage to get a firewire 800 in, excellent. But you have vga...
I won't go into anything more, cause I am bored to death, but I ll just say, design, look at this hp monstrosity, you have absolutely no sense of aesthetics to be caught with such a thing. This abomination looks like something out of the 90s, let alone the 00s..
What is wrong with you? If you actually personally feel "mocked" or "critiqued" because someone dares to point out the drawbacks of your favourite software-/hardware-platform, I'd recommend seeing a psychiatrist ASAP.
Even very dedicated Mac-users should remain open-minded and allow for some criticism of their own platform. Threads like this one are important because they help us keep our eyes open as to what the competition is doing - they help us view Apple objectively. For example, anyone who still claims that Apple can't put a decent dedicated GPU in the 13"-MBP because it's too small or thin or whatever can easily be proven wrong with a quick reference to the Vaio Z. You should get used to the fact that Apple's products don't occupy some mystical sheltered space where they're immune to criticism and comparisons to the competition. They're hardware products like any other, and if they're starting to lag behind the products offered by other manufacturers, people will relentlessly point this out, and rightfully so. Thus, threads like this one shouldn't be relegated to some barely populated subforum. What do you even intend to discuss if threads about PCs are censored? "Wow, my MBP sure has a great trackpad!" - "Hey, mine too!" - "Yeah, I sure am happy with my purchase" - "Me too! What an edifying discussion this has been, old chap!"
BTW, your paranoia is astounding. I can assure you that threads like these have nothing to do with insidious undercover marketing-campaigns by sinister PC-manufacturers - however, they have a lot to do with Apple's failure to keep up with the competition's laptop offerings. I can assure you, if Apple offered a 13"-MBP that lived up to its "pro"-moniker and its price tag, no one here would even write a word about the Vaio Z. But sadly, that's not the case right now. So, if this thread offends your precious sensibilities because it doesn't affirm your fanboyish mindset, blame Apple for not keeping their machines up to date. I repeat: nobody would be lusting after any Vaio or Thinkpad or Elitebook or whatever if Apple hadn't dropped the ball on their pro-lineup.
The elegance of the design has always been the Mac line's hallmark. Despite its weaknesses in other areas, the MBA is still the sleekest, lightest, and most beautiful laptop around.
I would be interested to learn whether Sony has an extended warranty plan along the lines of AppleCare and whether it includes unlimited telephone support. I wouldn't bet the house that it doesn't but I might consider putting up my car.
Wow. I had always thought that the Apple "look-thing" was some form of self-irony, as in "yea, I paid a lot for it, but hey, it's pretty...
", but obviously there are people who actually see it as a deciding factor of some sort? Who would've thought?Well, you live and you learn.
Oh, and by no means am I saying that it would be wrong to do so. It's just that the concept is so foreign to me that I never actually paused to think that people might be real about it.
I would be interested to learn whether Sony has an extended warranty plan along the lines of AppleCare and whether it includes unlimited telephone support. I wouldn't bet the house that it doesn't but I might consider putting up my car.
From the Sonystyle website:
# Telephone Support : 1 year toll-free technical assistance available 24/7 at 888-476-6972
# Online and Email Support : Available at http://www.esupport.sony.com/EN/VAIO
# Onsite/In-Home Service : 1 year limited warranty with Onsite/In-Home Service. See actual warranty for details.
Sony Service Plan Benefits
# Up to 5 years of total coverage from date of purchase using authorized Sony repair centers and parts
# Hassle-free repair or replacement, including parts, labor and all shipping
# No estimates or deductibles
# Lightning/Power surge protection
People will always create their own "classes" to fit their needs. I defined mine by thickness, and it's perfectly fine to define yours by weight. Some people have jam-packed bags where an extra pound might matter, but an extra half inch might not, and vice versa.
But on that note I'm done ******** up the thread ^_^
There is more to design than esthetics, although one does tend to enjoy one's Mac more if it's real purdy.Wow. I had always thought that the Apple "look-thing" was some form of self-irony, as in "yea, I paid a lot for it, but hey, it's pretty...
Well, you live and you learn.
Oh, and by no means am I saying that it would be wrong to do so. It's just that the concept is so foreign to me that I never actually paused to think that people might be real about it.
More seriously, my 7 year old Powerbook G4 has an aluminum case, which, looks virtually identical to the current Macbook Pro. Part of that may be attributable to fact that I have taken good care of but most of it, I suggest, is that it's a rugged box. That's why Powerbooks and Macbook Pros have had the highest resale value, by far, in the industry. That's a function of good design and construction.Thanks. It does appear that Sony offers extended warranty coverage that is in some ways comparable to Apple's. Nevertheless, I would like to know whether Sony's telephone support staff is mostly post doctoral Indians from India, or the American nerds who Apple uses for telephone support. That has become important to me over the years because when I have received telephone support from a foreign site the connection is usually awful and the tech support person speaks heavily accented English. That's a bad combination in any language.
My resistance to moving away from Apple is mostly owed to my having been spoiled by being able to use both OS X and Windows apps on the same machine. Also there is an Apple Store located less than 10 minutes away, which when I have hardware problems, as I did earlier this week, is worth its wait in gold. Mostly, though, it's because the devil you know beats the devil you don't.
I am not going to dignify posts I consider bellow my level of discourse with a reply. Hysteric retorts like "you should see a psychiatrist" are well beneath me, they might make for hilarious reading, but they don't really qualify for a reply.
I just wish everyone would eventually get a life other than attacking apple and apple fans in apple fan forums. I doubt it, but I really hope so. Again I have to stress how disappointing the moderating has been allowing such sort of abusive behavior by people who consider their opinion to have any more gravity than others here. Every once in a while another abusive post is deleted but this thread that has taken such an inflammatory turn, goes nowhere, it stays here for another person with nothing better to do than throw abuse. Apple users who claimed they would not use a windows computer have been called trolls, other apple users have been called ***kers for sony's educational discount... and that strangely doesn't ring any alarm bell wrt where the thread is going to... Some very disappointing moderating calls have let this thread go to a pointless 10+ pages of touting other products, bitching on apple, and abusing users who dare express an opinion favorable to apple's decisions in terms of the macbooks. What's there to be said here I wonder?
I just wish everyone would eventually get a life other than attacking apple and apple fans in apple fan forums. I doubt it, but I really hope so. Again I have to stress how disappointing the moderating has been allowing such sort of abusive behavior by people who consider their opinion to have any more gravity than others here. Every once in a while another abusive post is deleted but this thread that has taken such an inflammatory turn, goes nowhere, it stays here for another person with nothing better to do than throw abuse. Apple users who claimed they would not use a windows computer have been called trolls, other apple users have been called ***kers for sony's educational discount... and that strangely doesn't ring any alarm bell wrt where the thread is going to... Some very disappointing moderating calls have let this thread go to a pointless 10+ pages of touting other products, bitching on apple, and abusing users who dare express an opinion favorable to apple's decisions in terms of the macbooks. What's there to be said here I wonder?
Just found these up for preorder on J&R, with Bing cashback 5% can get one out the door for $1800 shipped with i5/GT330m,128gb SSD W7 Professional. The 192GB is $2000 and 256gb is $2190. Gonna give it until next week to see if MBP refresh if not i'm gonna pull the trigger. Might pull the trigger anyway depending what cpu/gpu the 13" MBP will come with.
I am not going to dignify posts I consider bellow my level of discourse with a reply. Hysteric retorts like "you should see a psychiatrist" are well beneath me, they might make for hilarious reading, but they don't really qualify for a reply.
I just wish everyone would eventually get a life other than attacking apple and apple fans in apple fan forums. I doubt it, but I really hope so. Again I have to stress how disappointing the moderating has been allowing such sort of abusive behavior by people who consider their opinion to have any more gravity than others here. Every once in a while another abusive post is deleted but this thread that has taken such an inflammatory turn, goes nowhere, it stays here for another person with nothing better to do than throw abuse. Apple users who claimed they would not use a windows computer have been called trolls, other apple users have been called ***kers for sony's educational discount... and that strangely doesn't ring any alarm bell wrt where the thread is going to... Some very disappointing moderating calls have let this thread go to a pointless 10+ pages of touting other products, bitching on apple, and abusing users who dare express an opinion favorable to apple's decisions in terms of the macbooks. What's there to be said here I wonder?
Yes, someone who finds merit in a non-Apple product is being "abusive". God forbid that anyone start a discussion on a discussion forum! Now, let's ban the naysayers and go back to praising the C2D-MBPs.
You really are the ultimate fanboy.
If you don't even know that you are being abusive, I am sure you are writing this from within long walls.
Now let's see what user Tyron has contributed to these forums over let's say the past couple of weeks or so. Let's see if he isn't whining about apple or bashing them or promoting a competitor products, just reading the first line of his posts:
Wow man, such love and kindness emanating from your posts. You really bring something to the table here. And that's just picking out half of your posts from the first couple of pages of your total post count. Way to go! Keep that love and that good attitude coming, you are making the forums a better place.
Now let's see what user Tyron has contributed to these forums over let's say the past couple of weeks or so. Let's see if he isn't whining about apple or bashing them or promoting a competitor products, just reading the first line of his posts:
Yes... If I'm like 12 years old and don't have a girlfriend
Amen. They could at least offer a decent Intel or OCZ drive as a slightly more expensive option, but I guess they get a bigger profit from the crappy Samsungs.
Way to twist my words
The troll guy is Max(IT), by whom I have yet to read a single substantive non-fanboyish post.
Yeah, well, it's more than you've got. All you have is your fanboy-faith that for some elusive, mystical reason, Apple's products are simply "better".
The unibody is great, but if you look at other manufacturers' more expensive laptops, you're also getting pretty good enclosures.
Asus ULVs with Optimus will be available by the end of this month. An Acer-netbook with Optimus will be available in March. Optimus is available.
An honest one? The current MBPs are indeed a rip-off, it doesn't take a genius to see that - they're obviously end-of-life.
Very well put.
I think we've all grown accustomed to Apple offering slightly worse specs at higher prices than the competition.
Wow man, such love and kindness emanating from your posts.
You really bring something to the table here. And that's just picking out half of your posts from the first couple of pages of your total post count. Way to go! Keep that love and that good attitude coming, you are making the forums a better place.I agree entirely. I enjoy reading threads like this.. might open some eyes to products that truly give Apple a run for their money. If mods closed this thread just because a few fanboys feel offended, i'd be seriously disappointed.
Cause of course when we are called trolls and ****ckers we have no right to be offended seeing as we are fanboys, just roll along with the punches...