***Sony Vaio Z*** Stone-cold killer! It's going to be Apple Vs Sony for Arrandale imo

[KnightWRX]

Monopoly schmonopoly.. The world of personal computing has changed dramatically since 12 years ago, when the original DOJ case was brought up. Microsoft is no longer a monopoly in personal computing by any stretch of the imagination. There are plenty of have choices in consumer OS market, be it MacOS, varieties of Linux, or soon ChromeOS.. There are about 5 or 6 browser choices out there. Today, Microsoft is no more a monopoly in personal computing than Apple is in smartphone market.

More importantly.. Apple's recent behavior has been just as (if not more) evil than Microsoft's ever been. What counts is how the companies are behaving in the NOW, not 12 years ago.

Microsoft is still very much a monopoly. The damage they have caused over the years is still there (just look at the IE6 debacle) and they are still under scrutiny.

Seriously, you can try to claim the market is different, but guess what, Linux has been around since 1993, along with OS/2, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, Amiga and MacOS. Microsoft still was a monopoly back then...

Your arguments make no sense.

Apple in the long run can only hurt themselves with their antics. Microsoft very much hurt the entire industry.

 

[bluefox9er]

We've been talking about this new behemoth from Sony in the Macbook Air forums as it's the same weight as an MBA (it's a premium ultraportable!) but the specs on it are so phenomenal that it'll surely take some beating even from an MBP update.


Sony 2010 Vaio Z Series

Top spec:
Design: Aluminium + Carbon Fiber
Weight: 3.07lbs or 3.3lbs (depending on which Sony website you visit)
Screen: 13.1", 1920 x 1080 Resolution
CPU: Core i7-620M. 2.66GHz, 3.33GHz Turbo. 35W TDP. 4MB L2 Cache
RAM: 8GB DDR3
SDD: 512GB (Raid 0 available)
Graphics: Nvidia 330M GT 1GB GDDR3 and Intel HD integrated - switchable
Battery: Sony: 6 Hours
Optical Drive: Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Burner
Other: x3 USB2.0, x1 HDMI Out, VGA Out, 802.11 a/b/g/n, GB Ethernet, 2.1 Bluetooth, webcam, mic, SD, Expresscard, Memstick

Not surprisingly the thing's almost insanely expensive at $4500+

With that repertoire, it's going to take quite a lot from Apple for me to go with them in my next update. Remember, and I say this again because of how astonishing it is, the Vaio Z is almost the same weight as the MBA (MBA is 3.0lbs) despite having x2 SSDs, an optical drive and discrete graphics!

I'm not going to pull the trigger yet though. It's a no-brainer to wait to see Apple's hand. They have a few avenues to potentially make me go for them instead for my next notebook:

1) Their multitouch trackpad is king
2) OS. Enhancing their current OS with updates (with Win 7, there's barely much distinction in quality anymore, both have positives over the other)
3) Cooling. It remains to be seen how much of a heat/noise monster the Vaio Z is. If it's unusably hot and loud, it's out. This is one of my main concerns with this as the CPU is 35W TDP.
4) USB3/Light Peak. Sony have only included USB2.0 in the Vaio Z. USB 3.0/light peak would have a huge bearing on my decision.
5) Design. If they produce something out of this earth design-wise (as the MBA almost is), then I'll shamelessly go for Apple. Design means a lot and there's not a better design in existence at the moment than the sensational-looking Air (Sony's new Vaio X is a second imo).
6) Improved IGP/Discrete interface. Eg as recent threads in the main news forum suggest Apple are looking into and may be one of the main factors for the delay.
7) OLED. With latest technology to minimize panel degradation.
8) Some other as yet unknown X-Factor. Remember, this is Apple Though in saying that, I have to say the iPad had no X-factor for me at all.

I can't imagine any company trumping the processor, RAM nor SSD that Sony have selected at this stage. With Apple's history of not incorporating bleeding-edge tech even in their flagship notebooks (the Macbook Air is a stunning exception), I'm not massively optimistic, nevertheless I can't wait to see how Apple respond especially with Steve Jobs recent quote:

"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level"

Despite the Arrandale Apple notebook delays (I'm religiously following the Arrandale thread with all of you), maybe the delay signifies something. Maybe we're in for a treat

expect the refreshed top of the range macbook pro to have a quarter of those features, no blu ray for a fraction more on the retail price of the sony....and expect the macmuppets to buy,buy,buy it in their droves and read on here about how outstanding value for money it represnts...

 

[hitekalex]

Microsoft is still very much a monopoly. The damage they have caused over the years is still there (just look at the IE6 debacle) and they are still under scrutiny.

Seriously, you can try to claim the market is different, but guess what, Linux has been around since 1993, along with OS/2, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, Amiga and MacOS. Microsoft still was a monopoly back then...

Your arguments make no sense.

Apple in the long run can only hurt themselves with their antics. Microsoft very much hurt the entire industry.

I will argue that Apple's current antics are potentially more damaging to the industry than what Microsoft did 10 years ago. Apple wants to steer the entire mobile computing platform (now with iPad) towards their "app store" model, where they are the sole gatekeeper, arbiter and toll collector. I guarantee you, if they could start all over, they would lock down MacOS (MacBooks, iMacs) to this model as well. This is the direction Apple wants to take you.

You can huff and puff all you want about what evil Microsoft did a decade ago. That is old news, and not all that relevant as the entire consumer desktop market has evolved. What Apple is doing now is infinitely more evil and damaging to the consumers and software developers.

We can all vote with our wallets. I am already in the process of switching to Android, and won't spend a dime on another iProduct that's locked down to Apple's app store.

 

[anthorumor]

Yes, Apple needs to be more transparent and open towards their 3rd party developers. Even MS had the right mindframe (even if they have Steve 'monkey' Ballmer chanting 'developers, developers, developers') as you can see basically any piece of new hardware will run on Windows and some companies are coming up with really good pieces of software (steam is a pretty good platform for games)

iEcosystem has satisfactory quality control, but at the expensive of Apple's decision making.

I will argue that Apple's current antics are potentially more damaging to the industry than what Microsoft did 10 years ago. Apple wants to steer the entire mobile computing platform (now with iPad) towards their "app store" model, where they are the sole gatekeeper, arbiter and toll collector. I guarantee you, if they could start all over, they would lock down MacOS (MacBooks, iMacs) to this model as well. This is the direction Apple wants to take you.

You can huff and puff all you want about what evil Microsoft did a decade ago. That is old news, and not all that relevant as the entire consumer desktop market has evolved. What Apple is doing now is infinitely more evil and damaging to the consumers and software developers.

We can all vote with our wallets. I am already in the process of switching to Android, and won't spend a dime on another iProduct that's locked down to Apple's app store.

 

[KrispyKreme]

What Apple is doing now is infinitely more evil and damaging to the consumers and software developers.

I totally agree... With Apple playing hardball with Adobe on Flash, I wonder what punitive actions Adobe will take in the future. Maybe take away 64-bit on OSX CS5? Apple seems to be fighting everyone these days and it'll be a matter of time before their karma is completely eroded.

 

[t0mat0]

I totally agree... With Apple playing hardball with Adobe on Flash, I wonder what punitive actions Adobe will take in the future. Maybe take away 64-bit on OSX CS5? Apple seems to be fighting everyone these days and it'll be a matter of time before their karma is completely eroded.

Who's to say they already haven't been taking punitive action (say, for Apple pulling out of Carbon 64bit?) hehe.

Lets see the Vaio on equal terms with a refresh.

 

[fibrizo]

Oh, please. Not another one of these theads where people are espousing the great specs of a Windows-based PC.

Did you say "approach things with an open mind"? However, you've dismissed people as fanboys. Almost everyone here has had personal experiences with Windows and Windows-based PCs. So if there is a bias, it is based on personal experience.

Where does it state that I have to like Windows, and Windows-based PCs. I've tried almost every brand, and every windows OS, and just don't like them. Does that make me or anyone like me fanboys? Nah. It just means we prefer to buy what we want.

I do agree that if you put these specs in a MBP a lot of tech savvy people will buy it.

I think we need to change the tone in some of these threads. It's alright to disagree. However, we shouldn't be disagreeable.

Funny though to take offense, I never mentioned a single thing about windows PCs being better. I simply said that the Z is a good piece of hardware. I also am clear that I don't expouse windows PCs to my family and friends, especially since I have them get macs lol. I never said anyone was a fanboy, you have to interpret yourself as one. The OS is one thing, but the hardware is another. I always say that macs ane built as a package experience. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't have bought them, and continue to buy them. But I'm not afraid to be critical of things I do or buy. Nor do I assume innate superioity of everything apple makes. My main point, which has maybe been missed, is that it's ok to look at other companies' hardware, and actually like it. Not everything that doesn't come from apple is bad. I know alot of threads seem to get started like this to provoke people. But I've seen just as many people dismiss things as junk or something, without having ever used the things themselves. I guess you could say, I wonder why we do so much crapping on each other here. We really could just discuss things civilly I guess, but that wouldn't be as much fun.

 

[KnightWRX]

I will argue that Apple's current antics are potentially more damaging to the industry than what Microsoft did 10 years ago. Apple wants to steer the entire mobile computing platform (now with iPad) towards their "app store" model, where they are the sole gatekeeper, arbiter and toll collector. I guarantee you, if they could start all over, they would lock down MacOS (MacBooks, iMacs) to this model as well. This is the direction Apple wants to take you.

You can huff and puff all you want about what evil Microsoft did a decade ago. That is old news, and not all that relevant as the entire consumer desktop market has evolved. What Apple is doing now is infinitely more evil and damaging to the consumers and software developers.

We can all vote with our wallets. I am already in the process of switching to Android, and won't spend a dime on another iProduct that's locked down to Apple's app store.

Apple can try all the shenanigans they want with the App Store. It doesn't matter. They are not in a monopoly position and as such, what they do is irrelevant to the rest of the industry. In the end, consumers get to decide if the Apple way is good or if Android, Symbian, WebOS, BB or heck, Windows Mobile are better. The choice is available, it's widespread, and no one clearly controls the market.

And again, Microsoft isn't old news. You just wish it was. Microsoft is still very much doing what it was doing 10 years ago. And it's still very much stuck in court for anti-competitive practices in leveraging their OS monopoly to gain monopolies in other segments. Just look at the current EU case where they are being force to make the browser ballot.

And IE6 is still very much a pain on the entire Web industry.

The fact is, you just proved yourself wrong by saying you can vote with your wallet. With Microsoft and Windows, you couldn't and you still can't. It's very telling that Macs got a huge boom in their sales when they gained the ability to install Windows without having to resort to an emulator... which Microsoft bought and stopped supporting on Macs (Virtual PC).

I love what Apple is doing with OS X presently. Full Unix compliance, open source, lots of community good will and code being trickled down to the other open source projects. They are a good citizen on the Mac side.

I totally agree... With Apple playing hardball with Adobe on Flash, I wonder what punitive actions Adobe will take in the future. Maybe take away 64-bit on OSX CS5? Apple seems to be fighting everyone these days and it'll be a matter of time before their karma is completely eroded.

Even if your ridiculous scenario came to pass (companies don't hold grudges when it comes to making money), in the end, this will only hurt Apple as Adobe customers seek out other platforms to run Adobe products on. This doesn't hurt the Photo editing industry at all.

Again for those that are being hard headed : What apple is doing with the iPhone is either going to work out wonderfully as the sheep accept the limitations imposed on them or it's going to hurt Apple and only Apple, bad. There is no parallele with Microsoft, who literally are responsible for years of lost innovation in the computer industry in general by force bundling their inferior, proprietary products and their incessant need to bury standards in order to prevent interoperability.

 

[Jobsian]

Looks like the new Z walks all over the M11x GPU wise:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/alienware-m11x-review/#comments
4.25 hours battery life with the 330M engaged? Must be a mistake. That's too long.

Yup, it's 4.25 hours with the discrete graphics turned off and a video rundown at 65% brightness (from engadget's vaio z review). They say that translated to "about 6 hours" for web-surfing and msoffice-ing.

I've had my eye on the m11x too and was glad to see engadget finally review it. While it's only a 1.3 GHz Penryn, with the graphics card this seems like the ultimate budget gaming machine. However it's a bit too heavy for what I'm looking for next and not sleek enough, not that it's trying to be with its muscle-car looks!

 

[Jobsian]

The other major lines I have my eyes on are Dell's Adamo and sub-14" XPS notebooks. As far as I can see there haven't been any with Arrandale. I'm guessing they're up to something too, though I be surprised if they came up with something to rival Sony and Apple's flagships (for what I'd want).

And nice post fibrizo (#116) putting things nicely in perspective

 

[Gomff]

Doesn't matter how gorgeous a PC laptop is to me.....I can't justify buying a laptop without OS X on it.

No OS X=

1) No Logic Pro
2) No Final Cut
3) No nicely integrated Video functionality (Painless transcoding using Handbrake, without being pestered for this or that Codec for example)
4) No iPhoto
5) No iWork (= having to fork out for and use MS Office)
6) No easy and free backup options like SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner, not to mention Winclone on the PC side.
7) Rougher typography in general but especially in web browsers

I could go on more about specific things in OS X that I find easier as well. And I know that Windows has stuff that OS X doesn't but if I have a Mac Laptop I can use both for their strengths which is what I do.

 

[Dekimasu]

Sony and Panasonic have been doing tiny machines that they don't sell in the US that have amazing specs for years. They will likely almost always be better in specs, weight and size than Apple, Dell HP etc. It's the market they have. No one has room for a 17 inch laptop in japan, it would take up half your apartment and provide the heat for it too. Things have to be tiny to sell.

That's just silly. There are tons of large notebooks for sale in Japan. The Sony Vaio F and Toshiba Dynabook TX are a few 16.4" laptops with Core i5/i7 processors. The Fujitsu FMV-Biblo is a Core i5 18.4" laptop. Plus you can get large laptops from foreign brands, including the Studio 17 from Dell with a Corei7-720QM and, of course, the 17" MacBook Pro.

 

[Kavier]

Sony Z Review

PC Mag recently posted a good review of the Sony Z:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2360044,00.asp

 

[entatlrg]

expect the refreshed top of the range macbook pro to have a quarter of those features, no blu ray for a fraction more on the retail price of the sony....and expect the macmuppets to buy,buy,buy it in their droves and read on here about how outstanding value for money it represnts...

Proof that some people really just don't get it. Sad. But why not go over to a Windows forum instead of slamming everyone here.

 

[applesupergeek]

For $4500, I 'd expect this to be shipped by a couple of japanese *********s to me offering weekly tec support.

Seriously though how crass can you be to sell and pay $4500 and have a barrage of obnoxious stickers stapled all over it...

Check out that ugly vga port on the side too..uuuggghhh...

 

[hitekalex]

The fact is, you just proved yourself wrong by saying you can vote with your wallet. With Microsoft and Windows, you couldn't and you still can't.

And how did I prove myself wrong? What specifically can't I do in consumer computing space without Microsoft or Windows? Do tell.. I have MacOS and Ubuntu computers in my household. The only Microsoft product I own and use is Office 2008 for Mac, and if that wasn't available, I would be happily using iWork or OpenOffice.

And as I said.. given Internet-centric nature of today's computing - the OS used on your desktop is becoming more and more irrelevant. The whole notion of any single company being a desktop OS "monopoly" in Internet-centric world makes zero sense.

 

[phrint]

For $4500, I 'd expect this to be shipped by a couple of japanese *********s to me offering weekly tec support.

Seriously though how crass can you be to sell and pay $4500 and have a barrage of obnoxious stickers stapled all over it...

Check out that ugly vga port on the side too..uuuggghhh...

This particular Z is retailed at $2,200.00. The $4,500.00 Z is the dual ssd 512Gb and i7. The silver one is packed with the i5 and 256GB ssd. It's a barn burner according to the reviews.

 

[cathyy]

Makes me curious though... should make a post where we take the Z's specs and make it a 15 inch macbook pro at 1899... and ask id people would buy it, even with usb 2.0

The Z specs would look pretty great on the 13" Macbook Pro, but it is still unable to match the Vaio Z mainly due to the fact that the Vaio Z is far lighter than the 13" MBP. Also I highly doubt that Apple will offer any screen better than 1280x800 on the 13" MBP any time soon.

On the 15" MBP, the Z's specs will look simply mediocre. It seems like that on the 15" level, it has a new competitor which is the HP Envy. It has the same footprint, almost the same thickness, and it's slightly lighter, yet offers a Core i7 quad processor and an ATI 5830. Far better than the Core i5 + 330M offered on the Z.

 

[hitekalex]

I don't know why every Windows laptop must ship with a nasty 1990's style VGA port.

 

[fluent617]

Still doesn't look like the Vaio S (also 13") is available in the US, but it's my alternative in Japan. There is an i5-540M version with discrete graphics and 4GB of RAM for 139,800 yen (about $1275 US). There's also an i7-620M version for 154,800 yen (about $1400 US).

They have the S series at Best Buy, but it is a watered down version.

-Intel® Core™ i5-430M processor
-4GB DDR3 memory
-500GB Serial ATA hard drive (5400 rpm)
-Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator HD

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+...999124400050012&count=1&id=pcmprd124400050012

 

[KnightWRX]

And how did I prove myself wrong? What specifically can't I do in consumer computing space without Microsoft or Windows? Do tell.. I have MacOS and Ubuntu computers in my household. The only Microsoft product I own and use is Office 2008 for Mac, and if that wasn't available, I would be happily using iWork or OpenOffice.

I've been Microsoft free for the last 10 years.

Why do you insist on using Office 2008 if there are alternatives ? Oh right, you need to open those oh so important Word/Excel docs.

The simple fact is, Microsoft are still a monopoly. Ask about anybody to ditch Microsoft overnight and you'll get weird faces back at you. About the only people go 100% Microsoft free at this point, even in 2010, are geeks. Back in 1999 when I went cold turkey, even the geeks wouldn't have gone through the lengths I did.

The age of everything being available on the Internet, in an open and interoperable way are still far ahead. And if we don't remain vigilant, Microsoft will again close down everything they can to prevent people from being free to choose how they want to do their computing.

It's naive to think otherwise.

 

[hitekalex]

Why do you insist on using Office 2008 if there are alternatives ?

Because it's a best office productivity suit on the market, and I am generally not religious about what products or software I use. And if that is your argument for Microsoft still being a monopoly (as you haven't given any others) - that's just weak.

 

[buddy1065]

I remember back in the day I would carry an 8 lb Sager 15" most everywhere I went, which was a full 2" thick. These days the younger generation may turn up their noses, but let them walk 10 miles in the snow with an 8 lb laptop on their back like the good old days, yeah boy, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout...

I just don't get it. Now a days they aren't even satisfied with what would be a comfy laptop for a woman; nearly the same thickness as some netbooks. 1.3 inches is too thick they say. Sounds to me like an upcomming generation of what Ahnold would describe as girly men.

 

[HLdan]

Because it's a best office productivity suit on the market, and I am generally not religious about what products or software I use. And if that is your argument for Microsoft still being a monopoly (as you haven't given any others) - that's just weak.

Uh, that's subjective. Now, MS Office may be the most widely used, but BEST?? NO. Obviously you haven't tried Pages from the iWork suite. In terms of templates, feature set, it kicks the crap out of MS Word and Keynote is the Gold Standard in Presentation software. Keynote can eat Powerpoint for lunch.

 

[lilo777]

I don't know why every Windows laptop must ship with a nasty 1990's style VGA port.

It's really simple. Because in corporate world there are still tons of projectors that use this connector. The irony here is that MacBook Pros are for amateurs and PC laptops are for professionals