Sorry, but Apple FAIL

[sweetbrat]

I understand that some people are unhappy with Lion. If you are, that's fine. I own a lot of Apple products, but there's been many times when I've been very critical of some of their decisions. So please, keep the "sheep" and "fanboy" comments away. I'm able to think for myself and make my own decisions. Hopefully you are, too.

If you don't like the OS, don't use it. I understand being annoyed if it changed your workflow in unproductive ways. But if something changed in a way that you don't like, and they gave you a way to change it back, what's the problem? So many people have said that "just ignore it" or "don't use it" isn't an acceptable answer. Why not? Do you use every single option that every piece of software you own offers? Chances are no, you don't. You use the ones that are valuable to you and leave the others alone. My microwave has a button I can push to reheat a plate of leftovers. Does that mean I absolutely have to use it? Nope...doesn't bother me that it's there, either. It's the same thing with Launchpad. I don't like it, so I took it off my dock. Problem solved. Other people do like it, so I'm glad it's there for them. Since when it it bad to have more than one option on how to do something?

People also keep saying it's just change for the sake of change. It may seem that way to you, yes. Especially if you're very set in the way you do things. But just because you've been doing them a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that's the BEST way. Maybe if you give things a chance, you'll learn that it actually works better than the way you were doing it before (scrolling, Spaces, etc.)

An OS, like most things in life, is never going to be perfect for everyone. That's impossible. But just because you don't like a feature, that doesn't make it useless. Apple likes to be innovative, and they generally do try to make things accessible for the majority of people. There's always going to be some things that you don't like. Does that make Apple evil? No. It makes them a company that's trying to put out a product that appeals to many people, because that's how they make money. If you don't like something, give them feedback about it. Maybe they'll change it in a future version.

Overall, not liking Lion doesn't necessarily mean you're anti-Apple, and liking Lion doesn't necessarily mean you're a sheep. If it works for you or you can learn how to make it work for you, great! If not, stay on Snow Leopard or go to Windows. Companies change their products every day, some in ways that may help you, some not. It's not like Apple is the only one that has ever changed/added/removed features.

 

[Stridder44]

No more pinch to zoom in Finder.

Epic fail.

You're kidding me

 

[chillvisio]

Comment deleted, because it no longer represents my current view on subject.

 

[sweetbrat]

I guess they are reinventing the wheel now with the reverse scrolling by default on desktop machines. Been using the usual scrolling direction now for 14 years. Don't hope that I will be giving up on my such an old habits "because they can" change how the scrolling acts by default.
And one more thing. 7 of my machines are scrolling the normal way. Don't you think that I shall get confused everytime I sit down at the Mac to find out that it's scrolling in the opposite direction?

I've been scrolling the "normal way" as you put it, just as long as you have. I have Tiger on my work Mac and Lion on my Mac at home. So far I haven't really had a problem switching back and forth. But if you do, then turn it off. If they had set the default to be the "normal way" I bet most people wouldn't have even given it a try, because they would have thought it couldn't possibly be good because that's not the way things are usually done.

Even if you don't like it, at least they got you to try it briefly. And at least they left you the option to change it back. I can see people complaining about it if it was the ONLY way, but it's not. Options, people. Options

 

[xraydoc]

I guess they are reinventing the wheel now with the reverse scrolling by default on desktop machines. Been using the usual scrolling direction now for 14 years. Don't hope that I will be giving up on my such an old habits "because they can" change how the scrolling acts by default.
And one more thing. All of my other machines are scrolling the normal way. Why do I need to get confused everytime I sit down at the Mac to find out that it's scrolling in the opposite direction?

No doubt Apple switched the scroll direction since this is the way you'd go on a touch screen. Previous to this, one scrolled in the direction you moved the scroll bars (i.e., down to go up, up to go down), not the direction you move the document. No scroll bars, no need to go in the opposite direction from the page.

Obviously this is an attempt to make using a Mac much like using an iPhone or iPad. Don't forget that the iPhone/iPad is selling more units than the Mac, so Apple wants to capture those users.

If you're used to it going the other way, one click in the preferences and you're back. Mouse and Trackpad scroll direction can be set independently, too. A very nice touch, I think.

Users new to the Mac often don't know they can store apps in the dock, but yet have to go digging through a folder hierarchy to find the Applications folder. The Launchpad metaphor makes OS X just like the iPad or iPhone - apps are easily discoverable with one tap/click and can be organized on screen and in to folders as the user chooses.

If you don't want/need it that simple, you've still got the Applications folder and the Dock to use, same as before.

Again, don't forget people here on this forum are almost all "power-users." Apple works to make computers easier for everyone else.

While I personally don't need Launchpad, my kids and wife actually like it. Mission Control is just as good as Exposé in my opinion - the 3-finger swipe left and right works just like it does on the iPad if you've got the gestures enabled, as does the multi-finger pinch-in to bring up Launchpad (or the springboard on the iPad).

 

[JRoDDz]

The new way of scrolling is STUPID.

This is the way it's always been: You want to read down, you scroll the wheel down. You want to read up, you scroll the wheel up. Simple right?

Now Apple decides that's been the wrong way since all of creation.

 

[chillvisio]

Comment deleted, because it no longer represents my current view on subject.

 

[spoccka]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Been done before.

 

[emaja]

All my respect goes to the Macintosh newcomers, since iOS Lion the power-user is no more in Apple's spot light. The age of innovations seems to be over now, time for copycats of tablet platforms. If this is the future of Apple's desktop OS, it is no longer my OS It is maybe time to go back to good, ol', flexible, power-user-friendly Linux

Apple has always been "the computer for the rest of us" and not for power users. Everything you used to do before, you can still do with few exceptions.

I love the "ZOMG, this is the worst EVAR" posts when Apple releases a new version of OS X. For most users, the experience is the same or better. If not, the "power users" can customize it to their liking.

Apple has always targeted new users or users who wanted a simpler way of using a computer. Lion just continues that.

 

[sweetbrat]

The new way of scrolling is STUPID.

This is the way it's always been: You want to read down, you scroll the wheel down. You want to read up, you scroll the wheel up. Simple right?

Now Apple decides that's been the wrong way since all of creation.

They didn't say it's the WRONG way. They gave you the option of doing it differently. Since you have the option of changing it back to the way it was before, what's the problem? I guess that's what I don't understand. True, they may take away that option in the next version of the OS, but you have it now. You think it's stupid, so don't use it. Other people do like it, so they can use it. Why is this such a big deal?

 

[revelated]

People also keep saying it's just change for the sake of change. It may seem that way to you, yes. Especially if you're very set in the way you do things. But just because you've been doing them a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that's the BEST way. Maybe if you give things a chance, you'll learn that it actually works better than the way you were doing it before (scrolling, Spaces, etc.)

NO other operating system would ever think of changing scroll behavior BY DEFAULT. It's ludicrous. It's a slap in the face to anyone who had used the OS previously. As I've said before, Apple learned that lesson the hard way when it tried to do away with the notion of right clicking. There are things in computing that just are because they are tried and true.

I don't mind them introducing new ways of working with the operating system or additional choices. My problem is defaulting the system to those new ways. LEAVE THE DEFAULT ALONE; train users so they know they have choices where they can modify that behavior should they choose to. Put that training video back in the beginning of the load up if you have to.

LaunchPad is the bona fide definition of "change for the hell of it". I've proven it. Pin the Applications folder to the Dock, open it. What do you see? Basically the same damn thing. That's ALWAYS been there since the Dock's been there. LaunchPad is instantly rendered redundant by this very simple action which is not that hard to do.

Mission Control feels like intentional change for the hell of it. Now it may get better. But in its current stage, it's a step in the wrong direction. That you can't see minimized apps is either a glaring oversight or a piss poor design decision. So either Apple is getting extremely sloppy or, as some have indicated, they have lost focus; assuming instead that users should just leave all apps in full screen mode and they're subtly trying to do away with the notion of minimizing apps.

Changing the sidebar in Finder to something so ugly is BONA FIDE "change for the hell of it".

Not including a restore media in the box of a computer YOU PAID FOR is change for the hell of it. Don't give me this "Internet Restore" stuff. What if you're not near internet when your computer dies? What if it's not fast enough internet? What if you're in the sticks? Too many issues that could be negated by them including the USB stick in the box like they did with the 2010 version, instead of charging people for what used to be in the box. EVEN IF I can justify that change, the stick costs them pennies; the OS is $30, so how do you get to $70?

Futzing the MacBook Air 2011 hardware so it can't run Snow Leopard is change for the hell of it. There is absolutely nothing in the hardware spec that should not functional in Snow Leopard. The 2011 Air's internals are so close to the 2011 MacBook Pro it's silly - that manages to run Snow Leopard just fine. I can understand not supporting 32-bit only OSs like Tiger or whatever, but there is absolutely no reason this machine should not be able to run Snow Leopard.

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

The new way of scrolling is STUPID.

This is the way it's always been: You want to read down, you scroll the wheel down. You want to read up, you scroll the wheel up. Simple right?

Now Apple decides that's been the wrong way since all of creation.

Their most popular selling iOS devices say different. It took me 5 minutes to get adjusted to it.

 

[GS Owner]

Got Another Win:
The Automatic Spelling Checker -
Very often I have to spell out a complicated word. Many times I get around it by typing in my monologue in some Word Processing program and spell-check there. Then when I'm finished I Cut & Paste the whole thing into whatever I'm into.

Sometimes, not here though, I'm typing a word and there's a blue dotted underline appears under it. The word almost always the correct word I'm using. Now I haven't quite managed the trick yet, but if getting the correct word out without me having to spell the entire word can cut hundreds of keystrokes off the work I do.

 

[BaldiMac]

NO other operating system would ever think of changing scroll behavior BY DEFAULT. It's ludicrous. It's a slap in the face to anyone who had used the OS previously. As I've said before, Apple learned that lesson the hard way when it tried to do away with the notion of right clicking. There are things in computing that just are because they are tried and true.

I don't mind them introducing new ways of working with the operating system or additional choices. My problem is defaulting the system to those new ways. LEAVE THE DEFAULT ALONE; train users so they know they have choices where they can modify that behavior should they choose to. Put that training video back in the beginning of the load up if you have to.

Except people won't change if what they are used to is good enough. Apple is looking to change the scrolling standard. My guess is that the change to "natural" scrolling has nothing to do with iOS devices. It is simply setting the table for touchscreen Macs. So scrolling on the screen will be the same as scrolling on the trackpad. Simple, non-conspiracy explanation.

LaunchPad is the bona fide definition of "change for the hell of it". I've proven it. Pin the Applications folder to the Dock, open it. What do you see? Basically the same damn thing. That's ALWAYS been there since the Dock's been there. LaunchPad is instantly rendered redundant by this very simple action which is not that hard to do.

Or it is a response to another change. Apple has locked apps to the application folder to make updating them easier. Launchpad provides a way to organize them, since you can't organize the application folder anymore. I think the initial implementation of Launchpad is way too limited. Selecting multiple apps and including context menus are obviously missing features.

Mission Control feels like intentional change for the hell of it. Now it may get better. But in its current stage, it's a step in the wrong direction. That you can't see minimized apps is either a glaring oversight or a piss poor design decision. So either Apple is getting extremely sloppy or, as some have indicated, they have lost focus; assuming instead that users should just leave all apps in full screen mode and they're subtly trying to do away with the notion of minimizing apps.

Or, Apple found that not enough people used Spaces for whatever reason, so they decided to rethink how it was implemented. Mission Control definitely makes multiple desktops more discoverable.

And you can see minimized apps in Mission Control. They are in the dock.

Changing the sidebar in Finder to something so ugly is BONA FIDE "change for the hell of it".

Or based on research into use patterns. But whatever. I would doubt it's arbitrary, but I have as much information as you do.

Not including a restore media in the box of a computer YOU PAID FOR is change for the hell of it. Don't give me this "Internet Restore" stuff. What if you're not near internet when your computer dies? What if it's not fast enough internet? What if you're in the sticks? Too many issues that could be negated by them including the USB stick in the box like they did with the 2010 version, instead of charging people for what used to be in the box. EVEN IF I can justify that change, the stick costs them pennies; the OS is $30, so how do you get to $70?

Okay. I understand this argument. I just think you are overstating how often this situation is a concern. And it can be easily mitigated be creating your own restore DVD or USB Drive.

Futzing the MacBook Air 2011 hardware so it can't run Snow Leopard is change for the hell of it. There is absolutely nothing in the hardware spec that should not functional in Snow Leopard. The 2011 Air's internals are so close to the 2011 MacBook Pro it's silly - that manages to run Snow Leopard just fine. I can understand not supporting 32-bit only OSs like Tiger or whatever, but there is absolutely no reason this machine should not be able to run Snow Leopard.

Apple has never supported the previous OS on new hardware.

 

[sweetbrat]

NO other operating system would ever think of changing scroll behavior BY DEFAULT. It's ludicrous. It's a slap in the face to anyone who had used the OS previously. As I've said before, Apple learned that lesson the hard way when it tried to do away with the notion of right clicking. There are things in computing that just are because they are tried and true.

I don't mind them introducing new ways of working with the operating system or additional choices. My problem is defaulting the system to those new ways. LEAVE THE DEFAULT ALONE; train users so they know they have choices where they can modify that behavior should they choose to. Put that training video back in the beginning of the load up if you have to.

LaunchPad is the bona fide definition of "change for the hell of it". I've proven it. Pin the Applications folder to the Dock, open it. What do you see? Basically the same damn thing. That's ALWAYS been there since the Dock's been there. LaunchPad is instantly rendered redundant by this very simple action which is not that hard to do.

Not including a restore media in the box of a computer YOU PAID FOR is change for the hell of it. Don't give me this "Internet Restore" stuff. What if you're not near internet when your computer dies? What if it's not fast enough internet? What if you're in the sticks? Too many issues that could be negated by them including the USB stick in the box like they did with the 2010 version, instead of charging people for what used to be in the box. EVEN IF I can justify that change, the stick costs them pennies; the OS is $30, so how do you get to $70?

Futzing the MacBook Air 2011 hardware so it can't run Snow Leopard is change for the hell of it. There is absolutely nothing in the hardware spec that should not functional in Snow Leopard. The 2011 Air's internals are so close to the 2011 MacBook Pro it's silly - that manages to run Snow Leopard just fine. I can understand not supporting 32-bit only OSs like Tiger or whatever, but there is absolutely no reason this machine should not be able to run Snow Leopard.

So something that took you probably 15 seconds to change was a slap in the face? Really? It's kinda like when you were little and your parents told you to at least TASTE the peas before you said you didn't like them. By making the new scrolling the default, at least they got you to try it. I personally like the way they did it. Make me at least try it, and make it easy to turn off if I don't like it. You obviously don't like it, so you turned it off. I seriously don't understand why this is such a big issue. Anytime there's a new OS or a new version of almost any program, there's preferences that you need to set up to put things the way you like them. Why do you expect Lion to be exactly the way you want it without any setup??

Your way of putting the applications folder in the dock has been available, yes. But not everyone does that. So, Launchpad is redundant to you, but not to a lot of other people. If you don't like it, why can't you just take it off your dock and ignore it? It's not like it's causing you harm or you're being forced to use it. Like I said before, why is having options bad?

As for the restore media, did you carry the DVD of the OS around with you everywhere, just in case your computer died? The restore partition gives you some disk utilities and stuff like that, but yes, you'll have to have an internet connection to actually reinstall the OS. But I would think it's more likely that you'll have an internet connection than it is that you were constantly carrying your old OS install DVD with you everywhere.

From what I understand, every time you purchase a new Mac, you're not supposed to install an OS lower than the version it came with. That's what I've always been told. So not being able to install Snow Leopard on the new Airs really isn't a change.

 

[paulsalter]

From what I understand, every time you purchase a new Mac, you're not supposed to install an OS lower than the version it came with. That's what I've always been told. So not being able to install Snow Leopard on the new Airs really isn't a change.

just asking in general

Is there a valid reason for not being able to do this ?

I know it's always been the case, but never seen a reason why it cant be done

 

[gentlefury]

just asking in general

Is there a valid reason for not being able to do this ?

I know it's always been the case, but never seen a reason why it cant be done

The only reason I can see would be that if a component didn't exist at the time of the previous release of the OS it wouldn't have driver support and some things might not work. The new MacBook Air's have the Intel 3000 graphics in them....they probably won't run on Leopard.

 

[paulsalter]

The only reason I can see would be that if a component didn't exist at the time of the previous release of the OS it wouldn't have driver support and some things might not work. The new MacBook Air's have the Intel 3000 graphics in them....they probably won't run on Leopard.

thanks, that does make sense

I think I might be getting confused, just thinking that currently manufactured models that ship in the current months, will ship with Lion, even though a few months ago they shipped with SL on them

 

[Taz Mangus]

When i started using Mac's in 2008 i have never had a kernel panic. and after installing Lion i have had a 4 so far.

Interesting. I have been using Lion for the past few days a lot and have not had a single kernel panic. In fact, I don't remember the last time I have had a kernel panic on any of my Mac computers. What were you running when the kernel panic happened? Was your install a clean install or a restore over Snow Leopard?

Something I have noticed about each new Apple OS, if you there is some sort of underlining problem with the Mac computer you are using, the OS will make that more obvious. Apple tightens things up with each new OS release.

When I installed Lion I did a clean install because I wanted to get rid of any bloat that accumulated from the past installs. It gave me a chance to do some house cleaning, update my drive icons and such.

One suggestion that may solve your problem, I have noticed that if the root of the boot hard drive is corrupted the OS can start doing some strange things. I would suggest running DiskWarrior on your boot hardware and see if it finds anything. Of course this assumes that you did not do a clean install.

 

[emaja]

Forget it sweetbrat. You're engaged in a useless discussion with revelated. He has decided that these changes are a personal attack on him by Apple and no amount of talk will convince him otherwise.

As you say, 15 seconds to have it back the way you want it to be. The only "fail" I see is why this is any kind of issue at all.

 

[ksgant]

I need X-code, can't get it to install.

With X-Code, it's kind of an install bug. You have to close out of iTunes...but the thing is, while you may not have iTunes running, the "iTunes-Helper" is still running in the background. Kill that process with the Activity Monitor and you should be able to complete the install.

 

[sweetbrat]

Forget it sweet brat. You're engaged in a useless discussion with rev elated. He has decided that these changes are a personal attack on him by Apple and no amount of talk will convince him otherwise.

As you say, 15 seconds to have it back the way you want it to be. The only "fail" I see is why this is any kind of issue at all.

I was enjoying the discussion, at least to some degree. I just wish I could understand why some of these things are such a big deal.

I have to set up preferences in all the programs I use, from Safari to the Adobe products to the games I play. Going in to a new version of an OS, especially a .0 release, you have to expect there to be changes. You have to expect to need to change some preferences. And no, it won't be exactly the same as it was before. That's why it's a new version. Time marches on, and so do our computers. If you love Snow Leopard so much, stick with it for a while. But eventually you'll have to move on, whether to another version of Mac OS or to Windows, etc., and you'll have to adjust to it. Just like with anything else in life.

 

[tigres]

With X-Code, it's kind of an install bug. You have to close out of iTunes...but the thing is, while you may not have iTunes running, the "iTunes-Helper" is still running in the background. Kill that process with the Activity Monitor and you should be able to complete the install.

Yeah, thought of that too; thanks.
unfortunately, it still is a no go.

 

[Sycren]

OSX Lion is buggy as hell

tbh the new features don't seem that bad.. But I have reinstalled snow leopard. Lion has crashed 3 times in the past hour. Its a real shame, I hope the bugs get ironed out soon.. I'll try again in a few months time..

 

[mwxiao]

Obviously this is an attempt to make using a Mac much like using an iPhone or iPad. Don't forget that the iPhone/iPad is selling more units than the Mac, so Apple wants to capture those users.

The statement that "natural scrolling is because Apple wants to capture iOS customers" makes absolutely no sense.

Every desktop OS, Mac or Windows or Linux or whatever it is, uses exactly the same scrolling direction. Anyone switching to Lion would find it unnatural unless you have never used a desktop OS before.

Changing the direction of scrolling simply scares away potential switchers, who may not know this is a configurable option.