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Once you purchase an app, is it still "in the store"? I mean when you buy a PS5 from bestbuy, you go home with it its no longer "in the store". Your only relationship is with the hardware and sony. But in "Apples Store", apps on the "home screen" are apparently still "In the store"? What kind of logic is this were the store has no boundaries allowing the apple to dictate a developer's business into perpetuity?

Apple is desperate for software money since iPhone has stalled. Next, under `pRiVaCy & sEcUrItY` developers will be forced to use Apple Servers, Apple databases essentially killing the cloud industry because why not? Its their store. 🤦‍♀️
It's called software and it is well established that the publishers and creators of software have rights to dictate how their work is distributed.

I could equally argue that a movie I just paid to see is still in the theater and the studio is being a dictator for not letting me do what I please with it. But I would be wrong.
 
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Once you purchase an app, is it still "in the store"? I mean when you buy a PS5 from bestbuy, you go home with it its no longer "in the store". Your only relationship is with the hardware and sony. But in "Apples Store", apps on the "home screen" are apparently still "In the store"? What kind of logic is this were the store has no boundaries allowing the apple to dictate a developer's business into perpetuity?

Apple is desperate for software money since iPhone has stalled. Next, under `pRiVaCy & sEcUrItY` developers will be forced to use Apple Servers, Apple databases essentially killing the cloud industry because why not? Its their store. 🤦‍♀️
The PS5 is no longer in Best Buy's store but is still running an OS licensed by Sony so you are always in Sony's "store" and thus subject to Sony's commission for anything bought on the platform. (Or any initial physical disc sale, they can't control the aftermarket but they sure do get a percentage of every new game disc sold)

Same with Apple. You're using a device with an OS licensed for you to use by Apple, so everything done on said device while using said OS is in Apple's "Store" and thus subject to Apple's commission structure.
 
And if Apple collected 30% for Uber/Airbnb, you'd be shouting "Apple sits back and collects 30% while AirBnB users have to give up their homes and Uber drivers have to deal with physical abuse by customers"

Never ending complaints by you people. Apple can be collecting 0% and you'll find something else to complain about.
Exactly --- They screwed themselves from the beginning with this policy and now you see how world governments are moving in to shut it down! Its not like we are living in your world where no one is complaining about this practice and every government is okay with it. Every government is literally looking to stop this.

This is Uber vs Taxis, Netflix vs Blockbuster and you're a protestor siding with taxis/blockbuster. The writing is on the wall.
 
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This is such BS. If I order an Uber via their app I’m not using Apple’s IAP. If I buy something from Target, Walmart or Amazon using their app I’m not using Apple’s IAP. How can this be about security when Apple only forces developers to use their payment option for digital goods, and in some cases allows developers to opt-out forcing users to sign-up/purchase via the browser (not using Apple’s IAP)? This isn’t about security (or privacy). This is about Apple believing they’re delivering the customers and thus deserve a cut of digital transactions and the easiest way to do that is force developers to use their payment system and take 30% or 15% of the transaction.
 
The PS5 is no longer in Best Buy's store but is still running an OS licensed by Sony so you are always in Sony's "store" and thus subject to Sony's commission for anything bought on the platform. (Or any initial physical disc sale, they can't control the aftermarket but they sure do get a percentage of every new game disc sold)

Same with Apple. You're using a device with an OS licensed for you to use by Apple, so everything done on said device while using said OS is in Apple's "Store" and thus subject to Apple's commission structure.
But the jail break precedent clearly established that consumers can run whatever software they want on the devices they purchased.
 
Sure, Apple has to obey the rules. But I didn't know citizens were state resources. Very odd terminology.
You indirectly are, rules and laws applies to you, states cares and demands of you.
If a company wants to deal with you, they must obey to rules and laws, this makes you and also the company some kind of a "state resource" that keeps a state running and healthy, just think different.

Antitrust laws exist to keep the state and "all" of its resources running at a healthy status.
Well, and Apple is putting this healthy state status in danger with monopoly, or duopoly to name Google, too.
 
I agree that Apple could release a "Store Framework" allowing independent stores to be built, but on top of a framework built by Apple. This would provide competition between "merchants" in the app ecosystem, much like eBay and Amazon marketplaces.

I don't see stores being built outside of some level of Apple's control / guidance. This is Apple's platform at the end of the day, not an open platform. Apple is the "governing body" at the end of the day, just like in the real world marketplace. Rules and laws establish order to protect consumers.
We don’t need independent app stores we just need Apple to allow developers to use different payment options if they so choose. I believe the Google Play store allows non-game apps to use their own IAP. I really wish Apple would stop saying this is about security since IAP only applies to digital goods. Surely Apple isn’t saying the ride I purchased via the Uber app wasn’t secure because it wasn’t using their IAP.
 
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Exactly --- They screwed themselves from the beginning with this policy and now you see how world governments are moving in to shut it down! Its not like we are living in your world where no one is complaining about this practice and every government is okay with it. Every government is literally looking to stop this.

Governments are looking into it because of unreasonable outrage.

This is Uber vs Taxis, Netflix vs Blockbuster and you're a protestor siding with taxis/blockbuster. The writing is on the wall.

This makes no sense. I'm siding with indie developers that are successful because of the resources that us indie developers have access to paid for by the 30% Apple tax.
 
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I believe a lot of malls & shopping centers charge tenants for a percentage profit, in addition to the rent. Thus if the App Store is an extension of the mall in a virtual sense, what Apple is doing is not out of bounds with in-app purchases. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
There are hundreds of thousands of shopping centers or malls that a tenant can go to. There are only two app stores.
 
You indirectly are, rules and laws applies to you, states cares and demands of you.
If a company wants to deal with you, they must obey to rules and laws, this makes you and also the company some kind of a "state resource" that keeps a state running and healthy, just think different.
Antitrust laws exist to keep the state and "all" its resources running at a healthy status.
Apple could decide to pull the App Store from South Korea. Or get their 30% by other means. Either way the consumer imo in general will not get the benefit.
 
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You really should do more research.

Apple charges $99 for Developer accounts.

Thanks for the snarky but pointless response. I was well aware of that cost.

The $99 for dev accounts cannot possibly cover the costs for development and maintenance of the app store, SDKs, advertising to a captive audience, bandwidth, tech support, etc.

Regardless if people here do not appreciate the brick and mortar analogies they are relevant in this case. Apple could indeed increase the cost to devs but it would be MUCH more than $99 and that cost will be passed on to the consumer so all things being equal there will be no cost savings to the consumer only a smaller piece for Apple and pieces for those that host their own payment systems.

Example: Apple and Epic

Epic lists their games for free in Apple's marketplace. Apple charges Epic $99, that doesn't even begin to cover the costs that developer presents for Apple in bandwidth, labor and tech support BUT Apple gets their cut of IAP so it all works out.

If Epic gets their way they will continue to list their game for free on Apple's marketplace, and possibly their own, BUT they want all of the IAP for themselves so Apple is left with the $99. What will Apple do? Raise dev account costs. How high? Whatever the IAP profits were plus a cost of living increase every year.
 
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I believe a lot of malls & shopping centers charge tenants for a percentage profit, in addition to the rent. Thus if the App Store is an extension of the mall in a virtual sense, what Apple is doing is not out of bounds with in-app purchases. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
Once an app is downloaded to your device is it still residing in Apple’s store? And to use your analogy then why did Apple create a reader category that would allow developers to opt-out of using Apple’s IAP for digital goods? At least your argument isn’t about security. If Apple want’s to make the argument rent seeking is legit then they should do that instead of hiding behind security.
 
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We don’t need independent app stores we just need Apple to allow developers to use different payment options if they so choose. I believe the Google Play store allows non-game apps to use their own IAP. I really wish Apple would stop saying this is about security since IAP only applies to digital goods. Surely Apple isn’t saying the ride I purchased via the Uber app wasn’t secure because it wasn’t using their IAP.
Speak for yourself and strike the We through, I'm for sideloading from multiple AppStores and from multiple Installation sources aka. websites, just like it is possible on Windows, Linux and macOS.
 
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Other than a completed management and host platform.
Yet over 80% of the apps in the App Store are ‘free’. How much is Facebook or Instagram paying Apple for this management and host platform? Basically you have a bunch of game developers subsidizing everyone else on the store.
 
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Governments are looking into it because of unreasonable outrage.



This makes no sense. I'm siding with indie developers that are successful because of the resources that us indie developers have access to paid for by the 30% Apple tax.
Im an iOS dev, I use in-app purchases. Its a very valuable payment processing software. You don't have to build trust with customers, its already there. You can start earning quickly. If I had the option to use 3rd party payment systems for the existing app I have, i would stick to in-app purchase - Because i sell digital goods and its way too convenient. But it MUST BE A CHOICE. I'm just one indie dev with one idea, Airbnb, Uber, Robinhood, these businesses ARE NOT POSSIBLE with Apple's in-app purchase system. Their user experiences simply couldn't exist with Apple's system. The digital economy is going through a currency revolution right now, the promise of those innovations is not possible with In-app purchase. Theres alot of innovation lost by Dictating a single one-size fits all solution and thats a big problem (Apple knows it too thats why services and physical goods get a pass to use 3rd party payments. Hell, Apples uses stripe for apple pay on the web. Pyyments is not apples core competence)

Apple used to block crypto until public anger and a viral video of someone shooting their iphone forced them to open app. Apple is sometimes the enemy of innovation. Don't take my word for it, the former head of the App Store who was responsible for approving and rejecting apps said so himself!


 
Yet over 80% of the apps in the App Store are ‘free’. How much is Facebook or Instagram paying Apple for this management and host platform? Basically you have a bunch of game developers subsidizing everyone else on the store.
How do you not know the iCloud storage revenue isn’t “subsidizing” the App Store? Apple isn’t forcing a price on any app. The App Store wouldn’t shut down if every app sold for $0.
 
Truth be told we as consumers dont really care about who we pay for IAP. This is why the discussion has included the appstore, something that more than a few consumers wish to have an alternative to.

(Yes, you can end a sentence on a preposition. English is not Latin)
It’s Apple who keeps wanting to change the subject to alternate app stores or sideloading because I guess they feel they have more people on their side opposing those things. Of course most consumers don’t care about IAP because most apps are free or free with ads and consumers just put up with the ads (especially now that it’s becoming a lot more expensive to remove them).
 
Apple could decide to pull the App Store from South Korea. Or get their 30% by other means. Either way the consumer imo in general will not get the benefit.
Yeah they could decide move out of South Korea, but this would not be a very clever move, simply because they will face more or less the same in other countries. The China deals shows that Apple doesn't give up a market because of rules and laws.

Furthermore, pulling the AppStore out of 'any' country would create a much worse situation for Apple.
This would lead to customers being unable to update, install, reinstall Apps, imagine the avalanche of lawsuits that would roll over Apple HQ for doing this, this would completely break their neck.
They have no other option than to obey.
 
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Thanks for the snarky but pointless response. I was well aware of that cost.

The $99 for dev accounts cannot possibly cover the costs for development and maintenance of the app store, SDKs, advertising to a captive audience, bandwidth, tech support, etc.

Regardless if people here do not appreciate the brick and mortar analogies they are relevant in this case. Apple could indeed increase the cost to devs but it would be MUCH more than $99 and that cost will be passed on to the consumer so all things being equal there will be no cost savings to the consumer only a smaller piece for Apple and pieces for those that host their own payment systems.

Example: Apple and Epic

Epic lists their games for free in Apple's marketplace. Apple charges Epic $99, that doesn't even begin to cover the costs that developer presents for Apple in bandwidth, labor and tech support BUT Apple gets their cut of IAP so it all works out.

If Epic gets their way they will continue to list their game for free on Apple's marketplace, and possibly their own, BUT they want all of the IAP for themselves so Apple is left with the $99. What will Apple do? Raise dev account costs. How high? Whatever the IAP profits were plus a cost of living increase every year.

So?

You're pointing out a problem with Apple's business model. It relies on sucking up profits from in-app purchases. That's something for Apple to fix.

Just beccuse $99 might be too cheap doesn't mean Apple should continue to force in-app purchases in their walled garden.
 
Im an iOS dev, I use in-app purchases. Its a very valuable payment processing software. You don't have to build trust with customers, its already there. You can start earning quickly. If I had the option to use 3rd party payment systems for the existing app I have, i would stick to in-app purchase - Because i sell digital goods and its way too convenient. But it MUST BE A CHOICE.


I'm an iOS dev too. Do you use Apple Maps? CloudKit? Do you submit more than 3 times a year? If so, $99/year for developer program is NOT enough to pay for these services.

If it was a choice, you'd likely need to pay additional to use Apple Maps, CloudKit, for each app submission, etc... because most of the top earners would switch to an alternate system. Apple would not be able to fund these resources if they lost a majority of the 30% cut. I as an indie developer do not accept this.

Right now I can release a 100% free app that uses Apple Maps, have 1 billion users use it, and not pay Apple a single cent other than the $99 a year. These types of apps wouldn't be possible if you were using Google Maps which the bill would cost six figures per month.

And those are just three examples. I've previously posted a long list of resources that developers get FOR FREE minus the $99/year.
 
How do you not know the iCloud storage revenue isn’t “subsidizing” the App Store? Apple isn’t forcing a price on any app. The App Store wouldn’t shut down if every app sold for $0.
Whatever is subsidizing the App Store is clearly more than enough to cover the cost of running it. This isn’t about that any more it’s about ‘services’ as a revenue and profit generating business. And I’ll bet the largest component of services revenue is App Store IAP and most of that is coming from games.

Back in the early days of the App Store in an email to Steve Jobs Phil Schiller questioned the App Store commission structure and if Apple should reduce it once they get to a certain run rate. Back in 2008 Steve said he expected the App Store to be a break even business. It wasn’t really until Apple execs saw all the money they were making from IAP (and then a dip in hardware sales growth) that the decision was made to squeeze as much money out of the App Store as possible.
 
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Apple used to block crypto until public anger and a viral video of someone shooting their iphone forced them to open app

Which Apple should have never done.Thanks to crypto, businesses are being attacked and extorted out of money with ransomware because it provides cybercriminals with an ability they never had before. These attacks have hit hospitals, food processors, even our energy producers.
 
Here come the 90's, where you have to type in your credit card into 900 different apps and never know if your data is safe
Those 900 apps probably use fewer than 10 different payment processors, though: PayPal, Square, etc. I used to build websites that interacted directly with payment gateways, but the security regulations got so strict and the integration options got to easy that it became easier just to integrate with these processors. Now as a developer, I never see and am not responsible for securing the customer's payment info. I acknowledge there's some degree of personal preference in what company you like, but I don't think you can claim that Apple Pay is significantly more secure or reliable than the other major payment processors that most developers will use.
 
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