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Sox Sweep Yanks
- Thread starter keysersoze
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MacNut said:The Yankee Gods are upset and when the Gods get upset bad things happen, beware Red Sox tomorrow will be a massacre. And for the record Arod was impeded in running to first base. Second of all Jeter should of been allowed to take second as even if the play is at first the runner advances.
Ok after further review of the rules Jeter has to go back to First.
He wasn't impeded, Arroyo was making a tag. You can't shove somebody away as they are making the tag and then say they were impeding you. That argument would only be valid had Arroyo not had the ball.
Chmeeee said:
ESPN Sportscenter, ESPN Baseball tonight, ESPN news, Fox news, FSN, the umps, EVERYBODY says.... the calls were correct. A Rod is a fool for making a stupid play like that. He's acting like a little girl.
Anyways, GO SOX!!!!
No matter what team you like, even if you hate both of them, this is history in the making, for all major professional sports.
BEN
BEN
if a-rod had run to first and the ball popped out when arroyo tagged, then that's no interference. however, last i heard, chopping with your arm to knock the ball out of a players glove is not a natural part of the running motion. it was interference - absolutely no doubt about it.
and macnut - you corrected your prev. post but jeter was required to go back to first. if the batter interferes before getting to first, any other base runners must return to the original base.
and macnut - you corrected your prev. post but jeter was required to go back to first. if the batter interferes before getting to first, any other base runners must return to the original base.
and so we'll do it one more time...
I pretty much agree with you. The fact is, these teams are the best 2 in the AL by far and it is fitting that they should go to game 7 again. I am the first to admit that I gave the Sox NO chance after game 3. But before the series began, I thought it would go to 7 games, I just never ever imagined it would be in this way:
Shilling getting shelled, Lieber outpitching Pedro, one of the worst beatings in postseason history, two straight extra inning marathons won on Ortiz hits, and a hurt shilling pitching 7 excellent innings in game 6. If the Sox lose tomorrow, of course I will be crushed. But let me say now, as a fan of baseball in general, you can't help but admire this series. Whoever wins, this is what baseball is all about, no?
And yes, I continue to agree with jiggy about the point that the NL is likely to chew up the winner of this series because both teams have really left all they have on the field in this series.
You have to be kidding me. I was watching the game with my two brothers and our father - I and my younger bro are sox fans, the other 2 yankee fans. They were going wild on that a-rod play... but when they saw the replay, they did not argue at all. There is NO question that a-rod intentionally smacked arroyo's hand out of the way. A-rod looked right at arroyo's arm, raised his left hand, and brought it down in a deliberate motion on arroyo. Even the announcers, who are blatently pro-yankee, agreed that there was no way that was a normal running motion.
Finally, to the person who keeps saying Shilling is washed up. You base this on what? The fact that he won 21 games this year? The fact that he pitched 7 innings of one run ball on a bad ankle? You're welcome to your opinion, but I really wonder where it comes from. You might as well argue that Sheffield is washed up. They are about the same age and both had above average years, even by their own standards, this year. I may not like Sheffield and you may not like Shilling, but what you say simply has as little basis in fact as if I were to say that Sheffield were "done."
jiggie2g said:
I pretty much agree with you. The fact is, these teams are the best 2 in the AL by far and it is fitting that they should go to game 7 again. I am the first to admit that I gave the Sox NO chance after game 3. But before the series began, I thought it would go to 7 games, I just never ever imagined it would be in this way:
Shilling getting shelled, Lieber outpitching Pedro, one of the worst beatings in postseason history, two straight extra inning marathons won on Ortiz hits, and a hurt shilling pitching 7 excellent innings in game 6. If the Sox lose tomorrow, of course I will be crushed. But let me say now, as a fan of baseball in general, you can't help but admire this series. Whoever wins, this is what baseball is all about, no?
And yes, I continue to agree with jiggy about the point that the NL is likely to chew up the winner of this series because both teams have really left all they have on the field in this series.
MacNut said:
You have to be kidding me. I was watching the game with my two brothers and our father - I and my younger bro are sox fans, the other 2 yankee fans. They were going wild on that a-rod play... but when they saw the replay, they did not argue at all. There is NO question that a-rod intentionally smacked arroyo's hand out of the way. A-rod looked right at arroyo's arm, raised his left hand, and brought it down in a deliberate motion on arroyo. Even the announcers, who are blatently pro-yankee, agreed that there was no way that was a normal running motion.
Finally, to the person who keeps saying Shilling is washed up. You base this on what? The fact that he won 21 games this year? The fact that he pitched 7 innings of one run ball on a bad ankle? You're welcome to your opinion, but I really wonder where it comes from. You might as well argue that Sheffield is washed up. They are about the same age and both had above average years, even by their own standards, this year. I may not like Sheffield and you may not like Shilling, but what you say simply has as little basis in fact as if I were to say that Sheffield were "done."
MacNut said:
if you have the ball, you can block the base/basepath. (arroyo wasn't blockin the path anyway - he came in from the side, from the pitchers mound.) why do you think we have collisions at home so often? finally, a-rod, technically, was supposed to run outside the baseline - see the side box along the first base line? that's where he's supposed to be running. arroyo was in the infield - if a-rod had run along the side box, at most, arroyo's glove would have been in his path, not arroyo himself.
all this still doesn't matter - a-rod deliverately used his arm, intending to knock the ball out. you can run into arroyo, if he was indeed in the basepath. but you cannot use your arm to knock the ball out.
MacNut said:
All they were trying to was tag his chest. You can make a tag from any direction, including from the front, and it is a natural consequence of making a tag from the front that you will block the runner. It doesn't matter though, because you are making a tag.
last post before going to bed...
read this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1905510
official rule:
i'll also mention again: arroyo had the ball in his glove. he is allowed to block a-rod's path all he wants.
finally, can you really look at the picture below and claim a-rod didn't try to knock the ball out? that left hand sure doesn't look like a part of his regular running motion to me.
read this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1905510
official rule:
i'll also mention again: arroyo had the ball in his glove. he is allowed to block a-rod's path all he wants.
finally, can you really look at the picture below and claim a-rod didn't try to knock the ball out? that left hand sure doesn't look like a part of his regular running motion to me.
Attachments
jxyama made his point better than I did. There is really no way you can realistically say that A-Rod was in the right in this case, even most Yankees fans are agreeing.
MacNut said:
I think that the idea behind the rule is not to return the game to where it would be had the runner not interfered and simply been tagged, but rather to if he had never had the chance to run, i.e. its a punishment. Don't mess around with the ball or nobody goes anywhere.
MacNut said:
If A-Rod hadn't interfered, he would have been tagged before he got to Mientkiewicz. If by some miracle of chance he hadn't been tagged, the other guy would have had a chance to jump out of the way. We can't say one way or another whether he would have been in the way, being that it never got to that point.
Two things.
First, A-rod very clearly intentionally hit Arroyo's arm before he even got near the 1st baseman. That's interference on the runner, not the fielder. What might have happened after that point is moot. Once the runner impedes the fielder, the play is dead, A-rod is out, and Jeter goes back. I agree with you that Jeter would have made it easily, but the rules are very clear. The runner interfered, so the man on first goes back to his base. Maybe that's a stupid rule, but that is the rule, and it was correctly applied.
Second, A-rod should have been out before that play even occurred. I have no idea where the call was on Arroyo's previous pitch (or was it two pitches earlier?) but it was thigh-high, right over the plate, and called a ball. Everyone watching the game with me, Sox fans and Yankee fans alike, just stared in disbelief that A-rod was still standing there. It was one of the worst ball-and-strikes calls I've ever seen in years and years of watching baseball. Seriously, the Ump must have just taken his eyes off the ball. There's no other explantion. If that was a ball, then there is no such thing as a strike.
So even if the call at first had been wrong, and it wasn't, it wouldn't matter in my mind because by all rights A-rod should have been on the bench already.
First, A-rod very clearly intentionally hit Arroyo's arm before he even got near the 1st baseman. That's interference on the runner, not the fielder. What might have happened after that point is moot. Once the runner impedes the fielder, the play is dead, A-rod is out, and Jeter goes back. I agree with you that Jeter would have made it easily, but the rules are very clear. The runner interfered, so the man on first goes back to his base. Maybe that's a stupid rule, but that is the rule, and it was correctly applied.
Second, A-rod should have been out before that play even occurred. I have no idea where the call was on Arroyo's previous pitch (or was it two pitches earlier?) but it was thigh-high, right over the plate, and called a ball. Everyone watching the game with me, Sox fans and Yankee fans alike, just stared in disbelief that A-rod was still standing there. It was one of the worst ball-and-strikes calls I've ever seen in years and years of watching baseball. Seriously, the Ump must have just taken his eyes off the ball. There's no other explantion. If that was a ball, then there is no such thing as a strike.
So even if the call at first had been wrong, and it wasn't, it wouldn't matter in my mind because by all rights A-rod should have been on the bench already.
MacNut said:
Look, I like your fighting attitude towards this, but now that you've admitted it was the right call you want the rule changed. I bet before this you didn't even know about the rule.
A Rod made a stupid decision and tried to cheat. Look, I said it, that's what he did. Everybody with any position in baseball that has said anything about this agrees. Think, if the rule didn't say Jeter had to go back to first it would be the same as a sacrifice and somewhere I bet a manager would use it to win a game. (Maybe a runner on third, this makes getting home easy because the ball has now been put on the sidelines. Get what I'm saying?
BEN