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So anybody from around the world can criticise Apple, but I can’t speak up for Apple? Is that the line we are drawing here?
The question here is that we don‘t see who is actually not a paid actor by Apple, thus it‘s hard to take some „opinions“ for real.
And how many people here are actually from the EU, rather than simply being along for the ride and seizing every opportunity they can to laugh at Apple?
It‘s pretty obvious that everyone here critizising Apple likes Apple products in general or else they wouldn‘t refer to their beloved Mac systems.
 
So anybody from around the world can criticise Apple, but I can’t speak up for Apple? Is that the line we are drawing here?
No one is saying you can't speak up for Apple. But it's rather strange to speak up for the one of the biggest corporations of the world. Do they really need defending?

To me it makes more sense when users/consumers speak for themselves for their needs and wishes. And wishing not having DMA is somewhat weird when you're not getting one in your country in the first place - and there's no discussion about it either as you yourself noted...

Also I stand behind my claim, that non-EU crowd seems to be most vocal in the DMA thing. And that's just ridiculous when it's not affecting them the slightest.


And how many people here are actually from the EU, rather than simply being along for the ride and seizing every opportunity they can to laugh at Apple?
I don't know? How many people here are from the Singapore? It's irrelevant to our discussion. I don't discuss US related laws if they don't affect me. DMA does not affect you so defending the corporation and speaking for EU customers really does not make sense. I would never speak in behalf of Singapore customers.
 
Check your facts and your logic:
  1. The iPhone was successful before there was an App ecosystem solely because it was a superior phone. It is this superior baseline capability that attracted users.
  2. Developers found the iPhone attractive because it was superior to the alternatives and that’s where the growth in users were
The iPhone was perceived as a superior product (phone) to existing smartphones back then.
But it only became so successful due to the ecosystem of third-party apps. It went hand in hand.

Did Apple create a superior phone first? Yes. But it was - despite its considerable public and media hype - an expensive niche product. And it would have remained one, if anything, hadn’t Apple quickly published an SDK and opened it up for third-party developers.

Android did not exist when Spotify launched its mobile app
Android and the Android SDK were released as betas in 2007:


Rumours of its impending release were probably what prompted Apple to preempt Google by pre-announcing their own SDK just days/weeks before that (in October 2007). Everyone knew that Google could be serious competition for Apple back then - and that includes Apple and Spotify.
 
Tim Cook should have just removed the iPhone from the EU and just start selling Android phones instead.
Others can probably do that cheaper - and sometimes better than Apple.

It would also not change the fact that Apple is still subject to the DMA. The EU would probably even aggregate Apple’s iOS App Store and an eventual “Apple App Store on Android” into one gatekeeping undertaking.

just to have an Android version of iOS?
iOS isn’t Android.

Mobile operating differ by more than just their way of installing apps or allowing in-app purchases - if you believe that only the “walled garden” is what makes iOS, that’s very sad.
 
Tim Cook should have just removed the iPhone from the EU and just start selling Android phones instead.

Why go through all this pain just to have an Android version of iOS?
So having the possibility to sideload apps without current 7 days expiration limitation* (YES, the sideloading has been already present in iOS for ages, I know, shocker!) is the only difference between iOS and Android? WOW.

*OR paying 99USD/year for the developer license to get around the expiration
 
So having possibility to sideload apps without current 7 days expiration limitation (YES, the sideloading has been already present in iOS for ages, I know, shocker!) is the only difference between iOS and Android? WOW.

The difference between iOS and Android is that iOS is a closed and curated platform controlled by Apple while Android is an open platform where you can do whatever you want.

That you people buy an iPhone and are now crying that you want turn iOS into Android is crazy.

That is all I have to say about people crying about the closed platform of the iPhone while they knew what they bought.
 
The difference between iOS and Android is that iOS is a closed and curated platform controlled by Apple while Android is an open platform where you can do whatever you want.
That's really not true. And sorry to say it, but if you really thing so, it just confirms that you don't know what you're talking about and that you did not use nor developed for the Android recently.

That you people buy an iPhone and are now crying that you want turn iOS into Android is crazy.
Huh. No one is crying? All I see is loud non-EU crowd - unaffected by the DMA completely - whining about iOS becoming Android just because of the DMA, more customers rights, more freedom and alternate app stores.

That is all I have to say about people crying about the closed platform of the iPhone while they knew what they bought.
Again, no one is crying. Stop saying that or you'll make me feel bad for thinking someone is literally crying next to you, because otherwise I don't understand why you would get that feeling.
 
The difference between iOS and Android is that iOS is a closed and curated platform controlled by Apple while Android is an open platform where you can do whatever you want.
That isn’t “the“ (only) difference.
It’s just one small difference among many others.

And it the closedness of iOS isn’t even really technically true, because sideloading has been available for years (Apple tell you how to install apps downloaded from a web site). Apple just limits its commercial use for distribution to consumers.
 
They paid Apple their developer fee and brought them a hugely popular app.

I'm not sure I accept the basic premise, which Apple seem to take for granted, that they are entitled to a cut of all commerce that happens on the platform.

You are right, though, about Apple's maneuvering here.
The premise is simple. If I build a city that has the basic infrastructure to where people choose to live there and you want to open a store to sell to them; you owe rent and have to pay tax. That’s how it works.
 
No one is saying you can't speak up for Apple. But it's rather strange to speak up for the one of the biggest corporations of the world. Do they really need defending?

To me it makes more sense when users/consumers speak for themselves for their needs and wishes. And wishing not having DMA is somewhat weird when you're not getting one in your country in the first place - and there's no discussion about it either as you yourself noted...

Also I stand behind my claim, that non-EU crowd seems to be most vocal in the DMA thing. And that's just ridiculous when it's not affecting them the slightest.



I don't know? How many people here are from the Singapore? It's irrelevant to our discussion. I don't discuss US related laws if they don't affect me. DMA does not affect you so defending the corporation and speaking for EU customers really does not make sense. I would never speak in behalf of Singapore customers.
I think it is more strange to think that big companies don’t need defending. and, by your logic, we should ‘t discuss human right violations in other countries because we don’t live there. the eu is pretty cunning by setting up laws around “digital markets” which don’t apply to older technologies where the eu dominates. the dma is literally a money grab for the eu to fund their government.
 
and, by your logic, we should ‘t discuss human right violations in other countries because we don’t live there.
Uh, comparing human right violations to the DMA which actually gives more freedom to customers.

That's what we call chutzpah.

the eu is pretty cunning by setting up laws around “digital markets” which don’t apply to older technologies where the eu dominates. the dma is literally a money grab for the eu to fund their government.
What? You're quite misinformed there. Money grab for the EU? What again?

Money grabbing by giving EU customers more options to where to get their apps from? By boosting (not just) browser competition? Yeah sure. Just like the rule about mandatory cookies message and GDPR.
Money grab too, right? Yeah sure.

Tell me you're not EU citizen without telling me you're not EU citizen basically.
 
The premise is simple. If I build a city that has the basic infrastructure to where people choose to live there and you want to open a store to sell to them; you owe rent and have to pay tax. That’s how it works.

That analogy only works if there are two cities on Earth. Don't like the rules in one, go live in the other. If that's not an option or you don't like that city either, well, I guess live in the wilderness on your own with no society.

I don't think this analogy even really applies. It's not like living in a city. It is what it literally is. This is about how to do business with a cartel. I don't know why more people don't use this very apt description. There is more than one choice, but not really, because the only options collude to ensure that even though they may not take it all, at least no one else even has a shot of competing with them.
 
Hey here is a fresh thought, maybe Spotify should create some ads that they put out on social media pointing people to their website and links to subscription. then they can completely remove the subscription from Apple altogether.
 
The premise is simple. If I build a city that has the basic infrastructure to where people choose to live there and you want to open a store to sell to them; you owe rent and have to pay tax. That’s how it works.
Your city is still in a country and you have to oblige to said country‘s rules. Just because you „own“ the city doesn‘t mean you can skin animals in the city center.

Besides, you sold your properties to customers. Said customers are allowed to do whatever they are legally entitled to. The laws are not created by you nor can you enforce them.
 
The thing I like about technology now is Freedom. You don't like one music service, you go to another. You don't like Apple, then buy a Samsung, google or any other make of phone and use their marketplaces. I remember when I bought my first iPhone I do not remember a person standing with a gun to my head at the Apple store telling me to buy it. I understood from the start what I was able to do with an iPhone and what I couldn't and if I didn't want to have those restrictions I was free to buy an Android (which has about every App you can find on an iPhone). I think a lot of complaints are from companies that willingly sign Apple's terms then complain that Apple won't treat them differently then everyone else.
 
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The thing I like about technology now is Freedom. You don't like one music service, you go to another. You don't like Apple, then buy a Samsung, google or any other make of phone and use their marketplaces. I remember when I bought my first iPhone I do not remember a person standing with a gun to my head at the Apple store telling me to buy it. I understood from the start what I was able to do with an iPhone and what I couldn't and if I didn't want to have those restrictions I was free to buy an Android (which has about every App you can find on an iPhone). I think a lot of complaints are from companies that willingly sign Apple's terms then complain that Apple won't treat them differently then everyone else.
You are mistaking freedom with anarchy. Freedom in our world does not mean that you can do everything without consideration of laws, without market regulation.
 
Apple being a child. You would think Apple knows that they have a lot of eyes on them and already being heavy question and looked at for at best malicious compliance to even breaking the laws. The more items that get added to the list that are questionable the harder and harder Apple defense and stance gets. Apple is just asking for massive fines to come hammering down.
Or maybe it is taking longer to approve Apps based on needing to comply to different rules now for different parts of the world
 
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Apple appears to do the minimal possible to follow rulings. I'm Suprised the board haven't fired it's lawyers and legal council! The optics are disastrous for Apple.
Why would they do more than the absolute minimum to comply with rules. Do you pay more taxes than you owe or do you pay the minimum amount that you are legally required to do so?
 
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